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[ABC] Amateur Brood War Coverage (Vol I)

Forum Index > BW General
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2Pacalypse-
Profile Joined October 2006
Croatia9489 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-04 19:43:40
August 04 2012 18:54 GMT
#1
  • I. Introduction
    By: 2pacalypse-

  • II. The Last Two Years in Foreign BW
    By: corumjhaelen

  • III. Elegant Interview
    By: 2pacalypse-

  • IV. Foreign BW 101
    By: kjwcj

Check out the foreign scene portal at Liquipedia!

Hello ladies and gentlemen of Brood War.

I'd like to introduce to you a new community project that is starting today; the main focus of this project will be Amateur Brood War Coverage. That doesn't mean our coverage will be amateur (if we can help it at all), but the leagues and tournaments we'll cover are. We understand that many BW fans were following professional BW exclusively, and haven't given the foreign scene a second thought, but I think it's time to change that. We could just call it quits and move on with our lives when KeSPA abandons BW, but, if any of you still enjoy playing and watching BW, why not just continue to indulge and make the best of what we have... because the truth is that we have plenty.

Brood War is a classic game and I have no doubt it in my mind that there will always be players playing it. Even though the glory days of BW might be fading, the numbers are still there to support a healthy amateur scene. There are those of us who, though we no longer have the time to play, would love the chance to see the best amateur players compete after a hard day's work. We'd like to give you a little context for those tournaments, because we all know that it's much more enjoyable to watch games when you're familiar with the players and their backstories.

What to Expect

While the foreign BW scene is nothing like the professional leagues in terms of its monetary rewards, it is a worthy hobby, and one that's competitive enough to provide a great deal of entertainment. If you haven't been following any foreign BW leagues or tournaments this past two years, we have corumjhaelen explaining to you what exactly have you been missing out.

We'll put spotlight on players, teams, casters, streamers, organizers and everyone else who is helping to keep BW alive in some form with their hard work and determination. We're gonna start with an interview with ImbaToss aka. Elegant[AoV], an organizer and caster extraordinaire.

For those of you who worry about the caibre of play after years of watching professional leagues, we hope to change your minds with our coverage and encourage you to give foreign scene a chance. So, to help everyone who might have an interest in following the foreign BW scene, but don't know where to start, TL's very own writer kjwcj has prepared a little guide that should help you know what is what and who is who in the foreign BW scene.

Help Us Achieve Immortality

Last, but by no means least, I'd like to issue a call to arms. In our darkest hour, we stand here and say goodbye... We mourn death as though there is no hope. But I say to you: we are immortal.


Fight for honor, fight for your Brood War, fight for your future, fight for immortality!


Even though this isn't an official TL project, we have a team of highly motivated people working with us, but we're always looking out for more talent. If you consider yourself competent writer and, more importantly, have enough motivation to help us on this project, feel free to send me a PM. It would be preferable if you have some knowledge of the amateur (read foreign, chinese, or afreeca based) scene, but it's not a necessity as long as you really want to help.

I hope you provide some feedback and post what you'd like to see in terms of regular content. In our next write-up, we'll start coverage of leagues and tournaments that are currently running, while also talking about stuff from past and future. I'd also like to point out that our write-ups will most likely be fortnightly, but if there's enough content, and enough people willing to help, we might even make it little more frequent.

Until next time, I bid you farewell and long live BW!

What is dead can never die, but rises again, harder and stronger.

-- 2Pacalypse-


The Last Two Years in Foreign BW


By: corumjhaelen


On November 13th 2010, when foreign BW seemed to be destined to completely disappear, an ICCup A/B rank tour took place. To everyone's delight, a terran named Beamface built 13 factories with only one add-on on Match Point, and went on to proxy nukes in the middle of Fighting Spirit. The man to take up the necessary position of caster was to be a then unknown admin from ICCup, named Sayle. Since that point, tons of events were organised and successfully took place thanks to passionate people who knew foreign BW was still worth watching. Here's what you might have missed, or a trip down the memory lane.

Individual Tournaments



Since its inception, the ISL has been the cornerstone of
foreign individual leagues.


Individual tournaments are the bread and butter of a competitive game such as Brood War. Here the best fight to prove their might. Apart from the aforementioned ICCup A/B tournaments, nowadays irregularly streamed (but possibly commentated and uploaded by the VERY dilligent Iccup.Fitz), we've had a pretty big variety of them. Defiler.ru's weekly tournaments are the most regular one, held every week lasting a few hours. Funkier tournament structures were used too. Justin.tv sponsored two King of the Hill tournaments in which the group stage qualified two players; the last king and the player with most kills. Fun!

Many clans hosted their own tour too. There was a vTv international; a tournament hosted by iFU and AoV; a reality-defined.com tourney with a more complex structure including qualifiers, and there were two KoTH tournaments hosted by UED.

Dear to my heart was the GosuCup hosted by Gosugamers. Six qualifiers lead to a 12 man group stage followed by an elimination bracket, which saw the american zerg Michael (aka Cheeseking) and the russian terran Pro7ect (aka Neo) battling through an incredibly tense final stage, pushing them to their mental limits.

Finally, our foreign OSL nowadays has a name; the ISL. Long qualification process, huge groupstages over many weeks, a week between each match, Bo7s, huge map rotation and the biggest pool prize for a foreign event are the trademark of this event. The first one, whose main sponsor was the AoV clan was won by the korean american terran Scan over the Hungarian zerg Ace. The second one, whose main sponsor was Kaal from TL was won by Sziky, (a now much feared Hungarian zerg) over the poor Ace, probably condemned to be the foreign YellOw. The third one, even bigger than the two first showed us some amazing games where once again Sziky came out on top, cementing his place as the king of foreign BW scene.


Team Leagues




As anyone who has followed Korean Brood War knows, team based leagues are awesome. Pride and feelings run even higher than in individual leagues. Just go read any Live Report thread a of match between KT and STK. It is no different in the foreign scene, and the different clans all have the heart to prove that they are the best.

The longest standing event here is BWCL, with ICCup Clanleague coming in second. These are less regularly streamed than many events, but are certainly viewed as highly important by the different clans.
There also was a Nation War, sponsored by Altitude, in which each country could try to prove their dominance over StarCraft. And by each country I mean that Hungaria and Poland were alone while the rest of Eastern Europe was considered as a single participant. Poland proved to be the best country after a pretty impressive run, dispatching the USA team in the finals (sorry flamewheel). Of note was the Russia vs USA series, which proves once again the importance of rivalries.

Finally, two seasons of Gambit Cup were the highpoint of team leagues for viewers. Multiple rounds with classic and winner's league format, lengthy Bo3 playoffs and all around great games provided huge enjoyment for spectators and players alike. In the first one, clans sas and Noobs allied to defeat LRM) in the finals, while in the second season, sponsored by Twitch.tv, Gt beat sas 2-1 in a very close series, ending an overall amazing season. The formation of Gt marked a fresh concept allowed in this team league - the founding of mercenary teams for the purpose of the league only. If a 2-1 victory over sas is not proof of concept, I don't know what is. The third iteration has just started, so keep an eye out for that for more awesome matches.


Lower Level tournaments



The D Ranks Individual Tournament is in Season 3!


Let's face it, getting into Brood War nowadays is not the easiest thing in the world. Laddering is not always the most rewarding experience, unless you are Kolll and you can get B- in your first season. These tours were set up to give lower level players an incentive to play and improve, and were also an occasion to get regular practice partners and higher level coaches. Plus you could be D rank and get your game on a stream, ain't that cool? Personally, the shame has still not completely worn off.

The low level clan sGs hosted a C ranks tour and a D+ rank tour, and more recently we had two D ranks team leagues and a C ranks team leagues. Teams got high level coaches and a reason to train harder - a good experience for any low level player, even if he had never touched Brood War before. I encourage you to check these out in the future!


Fun Tournaments



The Torenhire Starleague is a community tournament
featuring many TeamLiquid forum veterans


Foreign players are not professionals. While it means they aren't as good as Jaedong or Flash, this also means that we can see the whimsical side of Brood War more often. And indeed, a lot of pretty absurd tours have taken place this year. Here's some of them.

Currently running is the Torenhire Starleague, a community based invite tournament composed of TeamLiquid forum veterans. The format, and inspiration for the tournament comes from Trozz’s Gem League. In tournaments such as these, you can expect to find skill ranges anywhere between "How do I make marines?" and ex-progamer. The ensuing games are always sure to entertain.

Island maps are seldom seen anymore, as they are grossly imbalanced. But they are fun without exception, and play out very differently than classic ground maps. LRM) had the great idea to organize three tours played exclusively on Island maps, with the last one being 2v2. Great events indeed. I mean, how often do you see valkyries against battlecruisers?

If Island maps are not crazy enough for you, why not try some old classics? That was Ribbon's idea, and it had a pretty huge success. The Ribbon Classic showcased the map pool from the legendary Coca-Cola OSL (BoxeR vs YellOw, you might have heard of them) and in the Ribbon Revival we saw more recent maps from Korean Air OSL. The Ribbon Original was even bolder, as it was a starcraft vanilla tournament also held on, needless to say, pretty bizarre maps.

Among many other ideas, let's not forget a tournament that forced everyone to pick random, and some classic 3v3 BGH action.

Some other events enabled us to get to know our dear foreigners better. We had a few episodes of ICCup attack, including one with the legendary G5, Artosis' best friend. Despite a hiccup or two, these events were still as entertaining as ever.

Finally, there were many showmatches, including a Gambit Cup all-stars featuring the best player from the team league. But when it comes to showmatches, Reps)Defi is probably our main hero. Not only did he organize a first batch of showmatches during the week between foreigners, but more recently thanks to him and Hyeon we could see Sziky, our foreigner hero, battle iOps]..Han, a high ranked Fish terran. The next week we had the privilege to witness a battle between him and Pusan. If you haven't yet, I highly recommend that you check those out, as the games were incredibly entertaining.

Finally, while we're at koreans vs foreigner, I'll mention that an invite was given to foreigners to participate in the korean Bbulsori clan league. While the result went as expected, it was pretty incredible to see everyone come together and try to get the best possible showing against those koreans. Whilst nobody would have thought it possible, our foreigner white-knight Sziky was even able to come out and take on an SKT-1 coach with incredible results.


You probably understand it by now that I and many others have had a lot of fun following all these events over the past year and a half. You probably don't have the time to watch it all, so I selected 6 games trying to show different aspects of the foreign scene. These might not be the very best by any universal standard as, if nothing else, BW is highly subjective, but I think all in all they deserve to be watched and enjoyed.


Recommended VODs



Semih vs Karate
Semih vs Karate Game 2 of the final of the LRM) island tour. A completely nonsensical game on a completely nonsensical map ends in a completely nonsensical situation. A showcase of what's great about island maps.

+ Show Spoiler +


+ Show Spoiler [Part 2] +


+ Show Spoiler [Part 3] +


+ Show Spoiler [Part 4] +




Sziky vs Doctor.K
Sziky vs Doctor.K in the clan league. Sziky showed the ex-SKT Team 1 player and coach what he's made of, while Sayle and the chat went completely crazy. Sick macro game.

+ Show Spoiler +




Pro7ect vs Michael
Pro7ect vs Michael game 5 at the Gosucup final. The final game of a very close series, where mindgames were prevalent and the tension palpable. An unorthodox opening leads to a macro game, where the two players show what they're made of under pressure.

+ Show Spoiler +




Mazur vs Pike
Stellar PvZ between Mazur and Pike from the Gambit Cup Grand Finals. Nail-biter to the end

+ Show Spoiler +


+ Show Spoiler [Part 2] +


+ Show Spoiler [Part 3] +


+ Show Spoiler [Part 4] +


+ Show Spoiler [Part 5] +




Karate vs Pike
Check out Karate's ZvZ style versus Pike on Gladiator

+ Show Spoiler +


+ Show Spoiler [Part 2] +


+ Show Spoiler [Part 3] +




Pro7ect vs Bakuryu
Pro7ect takes on KotH Bakuryu in a back-and-forth TvZ

+ Show Spoiler +


+ Show Spoiler [Part 2] +


+ Show Spoiler [Part 3] +




Elegant Interview


By: 2Pacalypse-


Interviews are a great way to learn about people. With that thought, we'll be conducting a series of interviews in each of our write-ups to introduce you more intimately with the people involved in the foreign BW scene. These are the people who spend ungodly hours providing a service to the fans, while asking nothing in return. For our first post we have Elegant[AoV] aka ImbaToss, a caster and organizer whose love for the foreign BW scene is unrivaled, giving us his unique perspective.

Hi Elegant, would you please introduce yourself to the people who might not have heard of you yet and tell us what is it exactly that you do for the BW scene.

ElegantHi! I'm Mote Keatinge, a 21 year-old musician from England who loves to play and watch BW. I'm best known as a commentator on pretty much anything I have time for, from Gambit's Cup to ISL, but I also like to help out behind the scenes, stream my ladder matches, and chuck some money into the sponsorship pot occasionally.
There are a lot of posts where people try to explain their love for Brood War with words. Could you give it a try and tell us what does BW and its community mean to you?

ElegantBrood War for me has always represented something pretty special in this world. We see the model and the ethos on which the scene (and the late Korean proscene was built) become increasingly rare in the current structure of business in general, and "Esports" itself. A bunch of people who love to excel at something and do so without thinking of the end goal, accolades or their profile, is not just a romantic ideal of achievement and self-motivation against the odds, but something which became real with this game.

Even now I look around myself and I still see things which many people, driven to cynicism by the way the industry of gaming is apparently headed, would not think possible. People organising tournaments, people commentating late into the night, people writing detailed roundups and liquipedia pages, people fundraising and searching high and low for sponsorship - all this for no apparent personal gain! They are not sitting back hoping that things will happen, and are acutely aware that if they don't do it, maybe nobody will. When all the alternatives are so much easier, yet people are moved to give so much of their own time and effort because they believe it's worthwhile, therein lies a remarkable cause, and a remarkable core of people. BW can bring out your best.

Speaking entirely for myself here, Brood War also satisfies a little of my ever-present drive as a fiercely competitive person, an aspect which drew me in right from the very start. Losing my first 100 games straight probably cemented that even more. Where some would be put off, that only showed me immediately that there were a million different things to learn and master here. It's a testament to BW's infinite complexities that whilst I have played for 3 or 4 years now and don't have half the spare time I used to, I'm still just as hungry to improve. I carry a small square monitor, a mouse, a laptop, and a keyboard wherever I go. This game is a singularly unique driving force for practice and achievement.

It's just fantastic in every way. I could talk all day about this, having barely scratched the surface. No game comes close.

After comparing the numbers of BW with that of more popular and newer games, one might get discouraged to contribute to a scene where numbers are not that high. Do you get discouraged to help when you see less than a 100 viewers on your stream? Tell us, essentially what makes you inclined to contribute to the BW scene?

ElegantOh wow, I get discouraged all the time. Curiously though, it's not numbers which discourage me. When people are shouting doom and misery all over the place, and it seems like they are betting against all the best efforts of a fair number of people here, THEN I get discouraged and miserable. If forum-goers stopped bemoaning the "inevitable" decline, and pitched in instead, who knows where we could be getting. PM Eywa- instead, I'm sure he can find you something useful to do.

That same knowledge though, combined with why I love the scene, and the game, is what keeps me going. I know that it's not a lost cause, regardless of what people say. And I mean that. We just have to work together.

My own inclination to contribute also comes from the fact that individual people are important to this! I'm not just lost in a sea of band-wagoners, backing a cause or initiative which would get done whether I was there or not. Whether it's a ego thing or not I don't know, but when I ask myself "would BW survive without me?" I can't honestly answer "yes" with certainty. So I can only keep going, or I risk that the answer is "no". I suspect that I'm not the only person who does this.

But no, numbers don't bring me down. We have a clear concept in music that 1000 true fans who will back you to the hilt, and support what you do, are infinitely more valuable than 10,000 who barely care, and will never make a sacrifice for you. BW and it's business model can easily be equivalent. The mass-market isn't everything, and I have little use for it as the latest holy grail of the esports plan.

With professional BW coming to an end soon, do you think watching and following foreign BW scene is an adequate substitute? Do you have any message to all the people who still want to watch BW, but haven't payed any attention to the foreign scene?

ElegantAbsolutely I do! Since becoming more and more involved, I've become entirely engrossed in the stories and struggles of these players. And many of them are genuinely really, really good! It blows my mind when people discard these guys because they can't hit the astronomical standard of play which the Koreans achieve, and don't give their support to a scene which would appreciate it.

Funnily enough, I meet a few guys like this, who don't watch anything but Korean games on the basis that foreigners are rubbish. So I ask these people when was the last time they've tried to watch ISL or Gambit, just for example. The answer is usually that they barely have; just tidbits here and there which failed to blow them away within the first few seconds. It's an assumption, more often than not.

My message can only be, give us a chance to win you round. Get to know what the foreigners are all about, get involved in the games, stories and personalities, and it really won't disappoint you.

Besides casting all the tournaments, you're streaming your own games quite often. Can you tell us what rank are you in 1v1 and do you have some kind of personal goal you wish to achieve with playing BW?

ElegantMy max rank in 1v1 is C+, which I am genuinely proud of. My immediate personal goal is of course to hit B-, and my overall aim is simply to be useful as a player to AoV in ICCL, and Fox team in Gambit. That requires a serious level of play which my schedule often doesn't allow for. Hopefully though, throughout the next academic year, I can structure my time to help me achieve these goals.
While following foreign BW, I'm sure you have found your fair share of favorite players. Do you have anyone who stands out as your absolute favorite player and tell us why exactly he is your favorite?

ElegantInteresting! Sziky does of course have a special place in my heart. He's dominated for a while now, and I have been honoured to commentate his games since I began. He gave me hope for foreigner play, and gave everybody a player to look up to, for which I genuinely admire him. And what a superb player. Recently though, doty has caught my attention. I love to watch his stream, and his play excites me like little else does! Throughout the last ISL I was blown away by this guy, and whilst he just lost in the end, I have never seen such a spirited tournament run from a guy whose attitude and sportsmanship goes unmatched. So there's contention in there, and I'm not sure that I can even pick between the two!
As a person who was closely involved in foreign BW scene for the past two years, you probably have an unique insight in the current state of the foreign BW scene. How do you think, objectively, the scene will look like in two years? Will much change or will it stay relatively the same where we have a healthy amateur scene with enough tournaments to keep BW our favorite pastime?

ElegantVery, very tricky. I honestly think that at least we can maintain a healthy amateur scene. Once again, nobody can tell me that it can't be done, I just won't listen. There's no reason why not! It doesn't require huge sponsorship or massive hordes of casual fans, it just requires people to do their bit, even if that's just playing the game! People may accuse me of being idealistic, but I tend to have a pretty realistic view on things. Tentatively I think the state of our scene could go very much better, but that depends on a number of factors, which I am trying to pursue and assist.
Following up on that question, where would you want the BW scene to be in next two years? What are some realistic goals that you want to see tackled by the foreign BW scene?

ElegantI want it to go where I think it possibly can. I want 1000 people who will tune into broadcasts of tourneys on a weekly basis, and to see LAN tournaments become a hub again. Meeting your fellow players, and sitting alongside them is a truly uniting experience.

As far as realistic goals to be tackled, I think attitude has to be the #1 issue which we face. Wondering if the end is coming, expecting every tourney to be the last, and speculating to death (which has been going on for a couple of years now), is just the most remarkably destructive force possible! No sponsor, no organiser, and no player is going to get involved in a scene which has no faith in itself or in those who want to do good things within it. It holds everything back, more than many could know.

It's all a part of stability, which is what I want most of all! Within two years, I want BW to be comfortable where it is. Sustainability is a huge part of that overall goal, and I hope that truly sustainable ways to run our events can be reached. We're already getting there.

My final desire is for the elimination of international fragments. The Chinese scene, the Korean scene, and players from all around the world need to stop thinking of themselves as disconnected entities. We all want the same thing, and we are all united by a common factor - our love of this game. Together, we are undoubtedly stronger, and I hope that the various barriers will be fully broken during that time.

Ok, thank you for the interview. Any message you wanna send to your fans or potential fans?

ElegantWell, thank you for interviewing me! I hope I didn't rant on for too long. I want to say thank you to the people who watch me, listen to me and keep me going. It's not easy to commentate 'til 3AM sometimes, but a buzzing streamchat and people who enjoy what I'm doing give me energy.

To any potential fans - I hope I can do my bit in bringing you more great Brood War, and that through me (or whoever else, it really doesn't matter to me), you can have a window on something pretty unique. Look out for me in the sidebar, and for my name on any events which crop up.

Enjoy the game. I know I will.



Foreign BW 101


By: kjwcj


The release of Starcraft 2 was a watershed moment for the foreign Brood War community. While in Korea, things continued on almost as if nothing had happened, the foreign scene jumped at the new exciting game with its promise of a massive new audience and huge prize pools. Those that were left behind are the purists, those who either could not or would not leave behind their favourite game and who continue to support the community with their time, money and hard work.

Getting involved with watching foreign Brood War can seem intimidating, after all this is a community that likes to recall stories that sometimes pre-date Korean progaming. However, armed with a little background knowledge, it’s easy to see what has led to so many fans sticking around long after the boom time has come and gone. Through this short article, we hope to provide new fans with enough to get them on their way, to give them an idea of what tournament is most interesting to them and show them how to get involved in what is tight knit and fun loving community.

The International Starleague is the premier tournament of the foreign Brood War community; the highest quality players, competing for the most money and often in front of the largest audiences. The most recent running, the Altitude ISL, took place over the course of several months earlier this year, culminating in another dominating finals performance by Hungarian behemoth, Sziky. For a prospective fan looking to get a glimpse at foreign Brood War at its best, the ISL is a good place to start. Although it begins with a 56 player group stage, the player count is quickly whittled down and new fans should find it easy to pick up on who to look out for in the later stages of the tournament.



ISL3 wrapped up on June 9th, with (Z)Sziky taking the gold!


Alongside the ISL at the top of the foreign Brood War pyramid is Gambit’s Cup. While it doesn’t offer the same consistently high level of competition as the ISL, Gambit’s Cup makes up for this with its sheer quantity of games. With four best of sevens happening every weekend over the course of multiple round season, there is never any shortage of entertaining foreign Brood War.

The upcoming season of Gambit’s Cup features, for the first time, an all Chinese team. Having made a run to the final of the 11-12 Altitude Nation Wars as part of team Asia-Pacific, the Chinese are beginning to make their presence felt again in the foreign scene and their performances this season against established powerhouses like LRM and sas will show whether or not they’re good enough to overcome the time-zone and latency issues which have always held them back in the past.

More good news came recently from China in form of the “C-OSL”, an individual league tournament held on the vs server. Thanks to the good work of TeamLiquid community members, most notably Caihead, we’re able to watch the absolute best that the Chinese community is able to produce, including a number of players notable for their performances at international tournaments of the pre-Starcraft 2 era.

For fans with a slightly shorter attention span, there is the Defiler.ru Tournament. Run by our friends from the Russian community, Defiler is an open tournament in every sense of the word. Taking place over a single night and with replays of every game played immediately available on the tournament website, Defiler is a great place to see the absolute best foreign (and sometimes Korean) players compete in a quick and dirty competition. The list of Defiler winners since the tournament's beginnings in 2010 is a guide to foreign Brood War in and of itself, featuring almost every top player from the post-Starcraft 2 scene. Another thing that makes Defiler unique is the opportunity to watch the first person view of competing players, with top foreigners like Bakuryu and DraW streaming their progress through the tournament.

Finally, for those with a patriotic streak, there is Nation Wars. Similar in format to Gambit’s Cup, Nation Wars is a tournament taking place over several months in which countries or regions compete to define the non-Korean Brood War hierarchy. Although Nation Wars features the very best players from tournaments like ISL and GC, it also represents an opportunity for less skilled members of the community to join their relevant team and get involved. Whether there to improve, make up the numbers in 2v2 or win an ace match for your country, for foreign Brood War, Nation Wars is where competition meets community.

The foundation upon which all these major tournaments are built is, of course, the community. While for many people watching is enough, for those who want to raise their rank, watch their friends or simply have fun, there is an abundance of small tournaments run in varying formats. The C Ranks Team League, D Ranks Team League, Amateur Starleague, C Ranks Open, D Ranks Individual Tournament represent just a handful of the tournaments open to players of all levels and which still manage to produce some exciting games. When fun and only fun is on the agenda, community focused open tournaments like Trozz’s Gem League and the Torenhire Starleague provide a well-produced and light-hearted approach to a game which is often taken far too seriously.



Nuclear sunk busting. It's not just for SC2. Pholon in the Torenhire Starleague


Almost important as the tournaments themselves are the casters who present them to us. Most notable amongst them is Sayle, who picked up casting while an admin of ICCup in 2010 and who went on to play a huge role in rebuilding foreign Brood War following the release of Starcraft 2. For a period of time in late 2011, Sayle almost singlehandedly casted every major tournament, often four or five nights a week. While he has wound back his involvement due to commitments casting Korean Starcraft, Sayle remains the premier English language Brood War commentator and was most recently involved with the later stages of the ISL.

Alongside Sayle, casters like hacklebeast and EleGanT also provide high level commentary, mixing gameplay analysis with their extensive knowledge of (and sometimes personal friendships with) the top foreign players. Up and comers like TheShimmy and LMaster work hard at the sometimes tricky job of making C and D rank players seem good and can occasionally be seen pitching in with the higher level leagues. Beyond these stalwarts are a myriad of other players and fans who volunteer their knowledge and enthusiasm to help with casting or co-casting should the need arise.

Of course, any competition is worthless without its competitors. Luckily, foreign Brood War has a large community of gamers from all over the world who work hard in their free time in order to compete at the highest level they can. Dominant among them since the release of Starcraft 2 has been the Hungarian Zerg Sziky. Winning the last two ISLs at a canter and recently taking games off former progamer Eagle and OSL semi-finalist Pusan, simply put, Sziky is the best there is. Competing on all fronts, in both long and short competitions, Sziky very rarely loses when it counts and alongside his two ISL titles has also won more than a dozen Defiler tournaments and contributed to his clan reaching the final of the last two Gambit’s Cups.

The number of other players that compete on a weekly basis is simply too large to individually mention in this article. However, if you’re looking for a player to follow or simply want to enjoy a first person stream between tournaments, then TeamLiquid has a number of top foreign players listed, both featured and unfeatured. Amongst them is dOTY, German Protoss player and Altitude ISL finalist, Michael, a Korean-American Zerg user and notable purveyor of cheese and ZaRaki, well-loved Spanish Zerg and fan of creepy vocaloid.

If you’re looking for any more information on watching or participating in foreign Brood War, check out the http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Portal:Foreign_Scene on Liquipedia or check the Brood War Tournaments sub-forum.

Writers: 2Pacalypse-, corumjhaelen, kjwcj and Gecko[Xp]
Graphics: HawaiianPig
Editors: SirJolt
Moderator"We're a community of geniuses because we've found how to extract 95% of the feeling of doing something amazing without actually doing anything." - Chill
HawaiianPig
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Canada5155 Posts
August 04 2012 18:56 GMT
#2
A new dawn is upon us
AdministratorNot actually Hawaiian.
ImbaTosS
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United Kingdom1667 Posts
August 04 2012 19:04 GMT
#3
Yay! Foreign BW is cool.
EleGant[AoV]
bgx
Profile Joined August 2010
Poland6595 Posts
August 04 2012 19:04 GMT
#4
oh thats interesting, didnt expect it tbh

i was not following amateur BW (i admit admit!, burn me)

but now when it will be covered by TL i may at least some.

Keeping BW alive is still letting the gate being open for some miracle hopefully.

Stork[gm]
Kiante
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Australia7069 Posts
August 04 2012 19:06 GMT
#5
dat css
Writer
NbSky
Profile Joined August 2007
Canada1023 Posts
August 04 2012 19:08 GMT
#6
well done pac!
Sandstorm@USEast | The Last Pride [EviL] GW2 | Nb.Sky
[sc1f]eonzerg
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Belgium6505 Posts
August 04 2012 19:10 GMT
#7
amazing job. i have waiting for something like that since 2 years. idk. really thanks
Essbee
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Canada2371 Posts
August 04 2012 19:10 GMT
#8
Awesome!
ninazerg
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States7291 Posts
August 04 2012 19:11 GMT
#9
This is beautiful ;-;
"If two pregnant women get into a fist fight, it's like a mecha-battle between two unborn babies." - Fyodor Dostoevsky
Chef
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
10810 Posts
August 04 2012 19:12 GMT
#10
glgl

Pholon you make Hiya cry screwing up the one base nuke strat you stole keke
LEGEND!! LEGEND!!
Bakuryu
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Germany1065 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-04 19:15:37
August 04 2012 19:13 GMT
#11
"In the end, there really is no end, only new beginnings" (i guess nobody knows where this is from )

btw, vocaloid is not creepy ^^
Ribbon
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5278 Posts
August 04 2012 19:56 GMT
#12
I'm glad to see this focus on foreign BW! We've already had some pretty awesome games, and the more people in the foreign BW scene, the more and bigger tournaments we have.

Let's get some Koreans to stay up until 6 to watch an ISL!
puppykiller
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States3126 Posts
August 04 2012 20:00 GMT
#13
Beautiful. If there is any way I can support this project (that doesn't include spending money) please inform me.
Why would I play sctoo when I can play BW?
Trozz
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Canada3454 Posts
August 04 2012 20:03 GMT
#14
Nice timing for this.
Good luck keeping this living!
Brood War needs us now.
A build is not a guess, an estimation or a hunch, a feeling, or a foolish intuition. A build is a dependable, unwavering, unarguably accurate, portrayer of your ambition.
Archers_bane
Profile Joined February 2011
United States1338 Posts
August 04 2012 20:10 GMT
#15
Good luck with this! I will be supporting this 100%
Starcraft's BW glory days have passed, RIP Jaedong's dominance - 2013...EDIT 2017: WE BACK BOYS
538
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Hungary3932 Posts
August 04 2012 20:26 GMT
#16
Thank you for organizing this 2pac, it is great to see. glhf
BW fighting!
Game
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
3191 Posts
August 04 2012 20:34 GMT
#17
I must admit, the intentional expulsion of important names damages the informative goal that the article set. Without knowing where to truly turn for contributions, it's more of a recap. With that, it's a nice recap. I also loved EleGant's ego brag, that really gave me a good laugh. :D
SC is like sex. You should play often, but never too hard. And you should only try hard when it matters.
2Pacalypse-
Profile Joined October 2006
Croatia9489 Posts
August 04 2012 21:03 GMT
#18
On August 05 2012 05:34 Game wrote:
I must admit, the intentional expulsion of important names damages the informative goal that the article set. Without knowing where to truly turn for contributions, it's more of a recap. With that, it's a nice recap. I also loved EleGant's ego brag, that really gave me a good laugh. :D

Please don't bring your conspiracy theories and drama to this thread. This is a place to celebrate Brood War and I've sworn to keep these write-ups drama free. So please refrain yourself from posting, you did it so well for the last 90 days.
Moderator"We're a community of geniuses because we've found how to extract 95% of the feeling of doing something amazing without actually doing anything." - Chill
TheDougler
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada8302 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-04 21:04:28
August 04 2012 21:03 GMT
#19
This is really cool. After the emotional rollercoaster that was last night it kind of reminds me of the end of Majora's Mask:

+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]


Edit: wow that's a large version of that, spoiler tags added.
I root for Euro Zergs, NA Protoss* and Korean Terrans. (Any North American who has beat a Korean Pro as Protoss counts as NA Toss)
[sc1f]eonzerg
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Belgium6505 Posts
August 04 2012 21:06 GMT
#20
On August 05 2012 06:03 2Pacalypse- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 05 2012 05:34 Game wrote:
I must admit, the intentional expulsion of important names damages the informative goal that the article set. Without knowing where to truly turn for contributions, it's more of a recap. With that, it's a nice recap. I also loved EleGant's ego brag, that really gave me a good laugh. :D

Please don't bring your conspiracy theories and drama to this thread. This is a place to celebrate Brood War and I've sworn to keep these write-ups drama free. So please refrain yourself from posting, you did it so well for the last 90 days.

the best way is ignoring this type of comments. its a day to celebrate a great finals and great thread of foreign bw
Lucumo
Profile Joined January 2010
6850 Posts
August 04 2012 21:14 GMT
#21
Oh, pretty awesome write-up

*thumbs up*
GumBa
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
United Kingdom31935 Posts
August 04 2012 21:18 GMT
#22
sick write up might check this stuff out when its on and watch vods when I can :D
To all the haters: you deserve to witness many, many more Serral victories, worthy of the godlike player he is.
zappa372
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Chile365 Posts
August 04 2012 21:19 GMT
#23
this is really nice, gl!
EE HAN TIMING!
Skeggaba
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
Korea (South)1556 Posts
August 04 2012 21:20 GMT
#24
A new beginning.
And "dat timing"!
I love you guys for keeping the flame alive. Its going to be awesome to within less than 2 weeks be living in Seoul and watching foreign BW from my appartment
Bisu[about JD]=I was scared (laughs). The force emanating from his facial expression was so manly that I was even a little jealous.
fabiano
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Brazil4644 Posts
August 04 2012 21:22 GMT
#25
Amazing!!

Hopefully teams on DRTL will commit themselves for real with this coverage.
"When the geyser died, a probe came out" - SirJolt
Xayvier
Profile Joined November 2010
United States387 Posts
August 04 2012 21:24 GMT
#26
This is fucking awesome, exactly what I hoped for.
ImbaTosS
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United Kingdom1667 Posts
August 04 2012 21:24 GMT
#27
On August 05 2012 06:22 fabiano wrote:
Amazing!!

Hopefully teams on DRTL will commit themselves for real with this coverage.

Yeah hopefully it'll be a bit of a spur! I like the DRTL. One of those really good ideas.
EleGant[AoV]
floi
Profile Joined July 2010
203 Posts
August 04 2012 21:57 GMT
#28
awesome writeup, I actually never knew that Sayle once was an iccup admin!
also very nice timing comforting our sad hearts after today's finals. <3
Kanil
Profile Joined April 2010
United States1713 Posts
August 04 2012 21:58 GMT
#29
The Torenhire StarLeague is immensely enjoyable, and I encourage anyone not already watching it to start. I had planned on taking a break from TL after the OSL, but I'd miss the ThSL and I can't have that.

Tune in, laugh, and be happy.
I used to have an Oz icon over here ---->
FFGenerations
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
7088 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-04 22:29:32
August 04 2012 22:27 GMT
#30
if you aren't watching the amateur leagues/tournies then you should be.

broodwar is a game that you can enjoy spectating at any level . even D- games can be fantastically funny and entertaining to watch.

the large selection of casters we have right now are all seriously awesome, and the live stream chats are really fun to participate in.

and if you're not sold, random broodwar casts are WAY more entertaining to tune into than random SC2 casts. imo.
Cool BW Music Vid - youtube.com/watch?v=W54nlqJ-Nx8 ~~~~~ ᕤ OYSTERS ᕤ CLAMS ᕤ AND ᕤ CUCKOLDS ᕤ ~~~~~~ ༼ ᕤ◕◡◕ ༽ᕤ PUNCH HIM ༼ ᕤ◕◡◕ ༽ᕤ
Pucca
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
Taiwan1280 Posts
August 04 2012 22:34 GMT
#31
Might I recommend something for this? The ABWC should make channels devoted to BW. Very much like TheShimmy did for the DRTL. Make a YouTube channel, make a Twitch so everyone can view the VODs. I've always wanted something like that just one place to find commentary. Get a coalition of casters and writers in order to get coverage I think thats where you might want to start and write amazing threads like this one ^_^.
Master Chief
Anomarad
Profile Joined June 2010
Canada565 Posts
August 04 2012 22:37 GMT
#32
Nice article, looking forward to Vol II

Hopefully a admin spotlights this so people who just recently tuned into the OSL finals for the first time realize there's still a foreign scene to watch and take part in. :O
FraCuS
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States1072 Posts
August 04 2012 22:41 GMT
#33
Well fucking DONE! Was a very good read and write up!

I would also like to donate money for the prize pool for tournaments in the near future ^_^

BW fightingggggg~~~

Also I would be more active in the scene once I get situated.
Apink/Girl's Day/miss A/IU/Crayon Pop/Sistar/Exo K :D l Kpop and Kdrama Enthusiast
dellesh1ruH
Profile Joined August 2009
Denmark509 Posts
August 04 2012 22:53 GMT
#34
Awesome write-up!
Pain is temporary, Glory is forever!
Flip9
Profile Joined June 2012
Germany151 Posts
August 04 2012 22:58 GMT
#35
I'm not that much into foreigner games but every support for bw is great and I have to admit that Michael vs Pro7ecT game was awesome.
VOD: + Show Spoiler +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PfSB-gQnNo&feature=player_embedded#!

amazingxkcd
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts
August 04 2012 23:00 GMT
#36
Its beautiful *cry
The world is burning and you rather be on this terrible website discussing video games and your shallow feelings
Essbee
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Canada2371 Posts
August 04 2012 23:43 GMT
#37
On August 05 2012 07:58 Flip9 wrote:
I'm not that much into foreigner games but every support for bw is great and I have to admit that Michael vs Pro7ecT game was awesome.
VOD: + Show Spoiler +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PfSB-gQnNo&feature=player_embedded#!



Outstanding game :o
figq
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
12519 Posts
August 04 2012 23:55 GMT
#38
Been following a lot of these. The last ISL's production was particularly good, with all the stats and info provided for the players. The foreign scene seems very vibrant and alive. Even when I can't spare my full attention to such event, I usually leave the stream open and keep track of how it's going, every now and then. Big thanks to all organizers, promoters and players.
If you stand next to my head, you can hear the ocean. - Day[9]
soujiro_
Profile Joined June 2010
Uruguay5195 Posts
August 04 2012 23:56 GMT
#39
great job, love that beamface is part of this article ^_^
ace hwaiting!!
Nikoomba
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands15 Posts
August 05 2012 00:17 GMT
#40
Long live Broodwar!

Thank you for your efforts!
Shall we muscle?
Kal_rA
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States2925 Posts
August 05 2012 00:20 GMT
#41
bw fighting!
Jaedong.
chaosTheory_14cc
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Canada1270 Posts
August 05 2012 00:25 GMT
#42
This is awesome!

Best of luck with this, glgl
corumjhaelen
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
France6884 Posts
August 05 2012 00:29 GMT
#43
Wait it's finally out ? Woot, my name on an awesome tl article with sick graphics oO
‎numquam se plus agere quam nihil cum ageret, numquam minus solum esse quam cum solus esset
DKing6297
Profile Joined July 2011
United States78 Posts
August 05 2012 00:30 GMT
#44
On August 05 2012 04:04 bgx wrote:
oh thats interesting, didnt expect it tbh

i was not following amateur BW (i admit admit!, burn me)

but now when it will be covered by TL i may at least some.

Keeping BW alive is still letting the gate being open for some miracle hopefully.



I agree with this wholeheratedly
I was a ACE fan. I still am.
Hesmyrr
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada5776 Posts
August 05 2012 00:32 GMT
#45
This was fun coverage to read. Ironically, I may end up appreciating content of ABC more than the average articles related to Korean scene (excluding 'special' writing such as finals discussion & player spotlight but those are unparalleled in their beauty and style); Since I can read Korean there had been little reason for me to follow every article zealously. Well, now I have reason to pay attention as now I am outsider to the scene which carries the torch for BW.

Thanks for the writing, and I'll eagerly check all recommended vods when I manage to get some free time
"If watching the MSL finals makes you a progamer, then anyone in Korea can do it." - Ha Tae Ki
ImbaTosS
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United Kingdom1667 Posts
August 05 2012 09:26 GMT
#46
On August 05 2012 08:56 soujiro_ wrote:
great job, love that beamface is part of this article ^_^

Beamface is a hero! Waay too important to leave out :D
EleGant[AoV]
TheAmazombie
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States3714 Posts
August 05 2012 09:40 GMT
#47
Good luck guys. I hope the best for this project.
We think too much and feel too little. More than machinery, we need humanity. More than cleverness, we need kindness and gentleness. Without these qualities, life will be violent and all will be lost. -Charlie Chaplin
2Pacalypse-
Profile Joined October 2006
Croatia9489 Posts
August 05 2012 09:46 GMT
#48
On August 05 2012 07:34 BWalma wrote:
Might I recommend something for this? The ABWC should make channels devoted to BW. Very much like TheShimmy did for the DRTL. Make a YouTube channel, make a Twitch so everyone can view the VODs. I've always wanted something like that just one place to find commentary. Get a coalition of casters and writers in order to get coverage I think thats where you might want to start and write amazing threads like this one ^_^.

I wanna cut this right here before it starts spreading any further. It's [ABC], not [ABWC] thank you very much. 'W' is silent. We're such a hardcore BW players that over the years we've developed a habit of calling BW just B, to save time. Example:
Player 1: Hey man, wanna play some B?
Player 2: Sure, I love B!


With that cleared, I wanna point out that we're just providing coverage. We can't make a YouTube and Twitch channel for tournaments we are not organizing.
Moderator"We're a community of geniuses because we've found how to extract 95% of the feeling of doing something amazing without actually doing anything." - Chill
mca64[KDV]
Profile Joined May 2012
Poland463 Posts
August 05 2012 10:03 GMT
#49
i wrote long pm to Hot_Bid about my stream get featured here, but he didnt even answered
BLinD-RawR
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
ALLEYCAT BLUES49886 Posts
August 05 2012 10:06 GMT
#50
WOW!

epic write up!
Brood War EICWoo Jung Ho, never forget.| Twitter: @BLinDRawR
TL+ Member
TaShadan
Profile Joined February 2010
Germany1965 Posts
August 05 2012 11:32 GMT
#51
looking forward to more events to watch
Total Annihilation Zero
DropBear
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Australia4319 Posts
August 05 2012 11:50 GMT
#52
Sigh I thought I was going to become a productive member of society again until I saw this
Nice stuff lads!
Sucker for nostalgia
Epoxide
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Magic Woods9326 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-05 11:52:01
August 05 2012 11:51 GMT
#53
Will be following the foreign scene a lot now
LiquipediaSouma: EU MM is just Russian Roulette. Literally.
endy
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Switzerland8970 Posts
August 05 2012 11:54 GMT
#54
Hell yeah.

The best thing that could happen is that we succeed to unify all amateurs, Foreign + Chinese + Afreeca and make them compete together.

Imagine a Starleague on Afreeca with the top foreigners, Chinese, and Anytime, Killer, Pusan etc. I we can make a prize pool combining Afreeca ad revenue generated (not sure how revenue is generated on Afreeca) + community donations, we gather a nice prizepool. I mean if it's possible to gather 40 grand selling hockey cards, then everything is possible :D

Of course we wouldn't have OGN's amazing commentators, but except that everything would be here

BW4ever !
ॐ
SirJolt
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
the Dagon Knight4002 Posts
August 05 2012 11:54 GMT
#55
One of the best things about the foreign scene is that you can make it if you work a little; in a world where "top" players aren't able to spend ten hours a day practicing, who knows what it takes... Time to get practicing, gentlemen.
Moderator@SirJolt
RageCommodore
Profile Joined September 2011
Germany912 Posts
August 05 2012 11:57 GMT
#56
Thanks for highlighting this, the foreign BW scene really needs more attention. I was also sceptical when I first watched foreign Starcraft, but it really doesn't fail to entertain.
Looking foward to more content
BW: sGs.sTaRfaLL SC2: MarojiN | fan of: Darkforce, DBS, Last, Mvp, BoguS/InnoVatioN | Executer vs Choosy on Gladiator - Never forget T-T
FILM
Profile Joined September 2010
United States663 Posts
August 05 2012 12:32 GMT
#57
This is excellent! I'll be honest I stopped playing BW years ago once I started following the pro scene but I've definitely begun to regain interest in jumping into iCCup again :D
Artosis:  "It's like Detroit in there."   Tasteless:  "Lots of shootings and damaged buildings."
Caihead
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada8550 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-05 12:48:00
August 05 2012 12:38 GMT
#58
It would be really awesome / useful if any writers / graphix / TL admin or mod could help me / directly contact Chinese BW representatives, I can set up the communication channels for such events as exhibition matches, formal and informal partnerships, and so on. Right now it's pretty much me doing all of it myself and my schedule is really unforgiving. Please PM me if you are interested.

edit: There are plenty of intermediates i.e. chinese community members who are well spoken in english / korean, so the language barrier wouldn't be an issue as long as there was an intermediate present. Various contact infos can be given on request. Thank you
"If you're not living in the US or are a US Citizen, please do not tell us how to vote or how you want our country to be governed." - Serpest, American Hero
ImbaTosS
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United Kingdom1667 Posts
August 05 2012 15:42 GMT
#59
On August 05 2012 21:38 Caihead wrote:
It would be really awesome / useful if any writers / graphix / TL admin or mod could help me / directly contact Chinese BW representatives, I can set up the communication channels for such events as exhibition matches, formal and informal partnerships, and so on. Right now it's pretty much me doing all of it myself and my schedule is really unforgiving. Please PM me if you are interested.

edit: There are plenty of intermediates i.e. chinese community members who are well spoken in english / korean, so the language barrier wouldn't be an issue as long as there was an intermediate present. Various contact infos can be given on request. Thank you

It might even be worth starting a new topic to try and pick up some official help for the cause. Sounds like an awful lot for one guy to do.
EleGant[AoV]
Caihead
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada8550 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-05 15:51:21
August 05 2012 15:51 GMT
#60
On August 06 2012 00:42 ImbaTosS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 05 2012 21:38 Caihead wrote:
It would be really awesome / useful if any writers / graphix / TL admin or mod could help me / directly contact Chinese BW representatives, I can set up the communication channels for such events as exhibition matches, formal and informal partnerships, and so on. Right now it's pretty much me doing all of it myself and my schedule is really unforgiving. Please PM me if you are interested.

edit: There are plenty of intermediates i.e. chinese community members who are well spoken in english / korean, so the language barrier wouldn't be an issue as long as there was an intermediate present. Various contact infos can be given on request. Thank you

It might even be worth starting a new topic to try and pick up some official help for the cause. Sounds like an awful lot for one guy to do.


Recreationally too lol, im a free lancer with out affiliation basically ^-^

Will compile something soon then.
"If you're not living in the US or are a US Citizen, please do not tell us how to vote or how you want our country to be governed." - Serpest, American Hero
GeckoVOD
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
Germany814 Posts
August 05 2012 15:53 GMT
#61
On August 06 2012 00:51 Caihead wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 06 2012 00:42 ImbaTosS wrote:
On August 05 2012 21:38 Caihead wrote:
It would be really awesome / useful if any writers / graphix / TL admin or mod could help me / directly contact Chinese BW representatives, I can set up the communication channels for such events as exhibition matches, formal and informal partnerships, and so on. Right now it's pretty much me doing all of it myself and my schedule is really unforgiving. Please PM me if you are interested.

edit: There are plenty of intermediates i.e. chinese community members who are well spoken in english / korean, so the language barrier wouldn't be an issue as long as there was an intermediate present. Various contact infos can be given on request. Thank you

It might even be worth starting a new topic to try and pick up some official help for the cause. Sounds like an awful lot for one guy to do.


Recreationally too lol, im a free lancer with out affiliation basically ^-^

Will compile something soon then.


Please do! I'm not sure I can help (time and skill wise) and the post of yours doesn't really describe what exactly you need. I'd like to know a few more details before I try to help but make it worse / get hopes up for nothing :/
@DonGeckone on Twitterstuff // JOIN THE YODA FANCLUB OR YOU'RE REALLY REALLY UNCOOL: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=398220
Pucca
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
Taiwan1280 Posts
August 05 2012 16:47 GMT
#62
On August 05 2012 18:46 2Pacalypse- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 05 2012 07:34 BWalma wrote:
Might I recommend something for this? The ABWC should make channels devoted to BW. Very much like TheShimmy did for the DRTL. Make a YouTube channel, make a Twitch so everyone can view the VODs. I've always wanted something like that just one place to find commentary. Get a coalition of casters and writers in order to get coverage I think thats where you might want to start and write amazing threads like this one ^_^.

I wanna cut this right here before it starts spreading any further. It's [ABC], not [ABWC] thank you very much. 'W' is silent. We're such a hardcore BW players that over the years we've developed a habit of calling BW just B, to save time. Example:
Player 1: Hey man, wanna play some B?
Player 2: Sure, I love B!


With that cleared, I wanna point out that we're just providing coverage. We can't make a YouTube and Twitch channel for tournaments we are not organizing.


Noted ^_^.
Master Chief
TelecoM
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States10666 Posts
August 05 2012 18:15 GMT
#63
Nice writeup, I am a believer. I think we need to get CRTL / C ranks individual tournament started again, along side more daily tournaments , it wouldn't be hard, people just need to host them. I think even if it is for free or something as small as 5$ it would be awesome and fun to play in , the problem is that I guess there is never enough players ? But I think that after something amazing like this is released then more people will be interested in playing BW again, I enjoyed reading this and you're guys enthusiasm towards BW, it is great. I will gladly take some time to help with managing something like a CRTL or C ranks individual tournament, I don't have money to provide as a prize incentive but I would be willing to donate gaming mice as a prize for the tournaments to help the cause.

BW Fighting~
God bless~
AKA: TelecoM[WHITE] Protoss fighting
GeckoVOD
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
Germany814 Posts
August 05 2012 18:26 GMT
#64
On August 06 2012 03:15 GGzerG wrote:
Nice writeup, I am a believer. I think we need to get CRTL / C ranks individual tournament started again, along side more daily tournaments , it wouldn't be hard, people just need to host them. I think even if it is for free or something as small as 5$ it would be awesome and fun to play in , the problem is that I guess there is never enough players ? But I think that after something amazing like this is released then more people will be interested in playing BW again, I enjoyed reading this and you're guys enthusiasm towards BW, it is great. I will gladly take some time to help with managing something like a CRTL or C ranks individual tournament, I don't have money to provide as a prize incentive but I would be willing to donate gaming mice as a prize for the tournaments to help the cause.

BW Fighting~
God bless~


You needed to ship the mouse abroad if it wasn't USA only. That is money again. No idea how expensive that would be USA only. But if you had to pay ~20$ as winner just to get a mouse, it wouldn't really pay off.

Also, I don't think the solution is to randomly throw money into tournaments, that's the least acceptable thing, especially for low level tournaments. What originally got me to play Brood War was the fun, no agenda, big prizes or other money based stuff. Just the passion everyone had, the depth of the game and the challenge it was to get only halfway decent. Foreign Brood War survived and had a big amateur scene (speaking of players ranked D/C max), not because there were thousands of $$$ in it. Maybe it's just me being an old grumpy idiot, but I can't figure out what this esports madness should possibly bring other than forced happiness and artificially hyped tours. Do it because you love it, not because you are desperate =/
@DonGeckone on Twitterstuff // JOIN THE YODA FANCLUB OR YOU'RE REALLY REALLY UNCOOL: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=398220
[sc1f]eonzerg
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Belgium6505 Posts
August 05 2012 18:37 GMT
#65
i feel that we need learn from the scbw cuban scene.http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Cuban_Scene
L3gendary
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada1470 Posts
August 05 2012 18:39 GMT
#66
On August 06 2012 03:26 Gecko[Xp] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 06 2012 03:15 GGzerG wrote:
Nice writeup, I am a believer. I think we need to get CRTL / C ranks individual tournament started again, along side more daily tournaments , it wouldn't be hard, people just need to host them. I think even if it is for free or something as small as 5$ it would be awesome and fun to play in , the problem is that I guess there is never enough players ? But I think that after something amazing like this is released then more people will be interested in playing BW again, I enjoyed reading this and you're guys enthusiasm towards BW, it is great. I will gladly take some time to help with managing something like a CRTL or C ranks individual tournament, I don't have money to provide as a prize incentive but I would be willing to donate gaming mice as a prize for the tournaments to help the cause.

BW Fighting~
God bless~


You needed to ship the mouse abroad if it wasn't USA only. That is money again. No idea how expensive that would be USA only. But if you had to pay ~20$ as winner just to get a mouse, it wouldn't really pay off.

Also, I don't think the solution is to randomly throw money into tournaments, that's the least acceptable thing, especially for low level tournaments. What originally got me to play Brood War was the fun, no agenda, big prizes or other money based stuff. Just the passion everyone had, the depth of the game and the challenge it was to get only halfway decent. Foreign Brood War survived and had a big amateur scene (speaking of players ranked D/C max), not because there were thousands of $$$ in it. Maybe it's just me being an old grumpy idiot, but I can't figure out what this esports madness should possibly bring other than forced happiness and artificially hyped tours. Do it because you love it, not because you are desperate =/


You're right but from my experience playing in other amateur scenes, without a prize you get a lot of no shows and walkovers. There's lots of excitement for the beginning stages of a tournament but can often end without completion if people see it as a low priority in their schedules since there's no prize.
Watching Jaedong play purifies my eyes. -Coach Ju Hoon
puppykiller
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States3126 Posts
August 05 2012 18:41 GMT
#67
On August 06 2012 03:26 Gecko[Xp] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 06 2012 03:15 GGzerG wrote:
Nice writeup, I am a believer. I think we need to get CRTL / C ranks individual tournament started again, along side more daily tournaments , it wouldn't be hard, people just need to host them. I think even if it is for free or something as small as 5$ it would be awesome and fun to play in , the problem is that I guess there is never enough players ? But I think that after something amazing like this is released then more people will be interested in playing BW again, I enjoyed reading this and you're guys enthusiasm towards BW, it is great. I will gladly take some time to help with managing something like a CRTL or C ranks individual tournament, I don't have money to provide as a prize incentive but I would be willing to donate gaming mice as a prize for the tournaments to help the cause.

BW Fighting~
God bless~


You needed to ship the mouse abroad if it wasn't USA only. That is money again. No idea how expensive that would be USA only. But if you had to pay ~20$ as winner just to get a mouse, it wouldn't really pay off.

Also, I don't think the solution is to randomly throw money into tournaments, that's the least acceptable thing, especially for low level tournaments. What originally got me to play Brood War was the fun, no agenda, big prizes or other money based stuff. Just the passion everyone had, the depth of the game and the challenge it was to get only halfway decent. Foreign Brood War survived and had a big amateur scene (speaking of players ranked D/C max), not because there were thousands of $$$ in it. Maybe it's just me being an old grumpy idiot, but I can't figure out what this esports madness should possibly bring other than forced happiness and artificially hyped tours. Do it because you love it, not because you are desperate =/


I agree with Gecko. I think that we should limit the amount of money we spend on prizes. No fan likes donating. I think people will still play just for the prestige.
Why would I play sctoo when I can play BW?
GeckoVOD
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
Germany814 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-05 19:10:06
August 05 2012 18:48 GMT
#68
On August 06 2012 03:39 L3gendary wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 06 2012 03:26 Gecko[Xp] wrote:
On August 06 2012 03:15 GGzerG wrote:
Nice writeup, I am a believer. I think we need to get CRTL / C ranks individual tournament started again, along side more daily tournaments , it wouldn't be hard, people just need to host them. I think even if it is for free or something as small as 5$ it would be awesome and fun to play in , the problem is that I guess there is never enough players ? But I think that after something amazing like this is released then more people will be interested in playing BW again, I enjoyed reading this and you're guys enthusiasm towards BW, it is great. I will gladly take some time to help with managing something like a CRTL or C ranks individual tournament, I don't have money to provide as a prize incentive but I would be willing to donate gaming mice as a prize for the tournaments to help the cause.

BW Fighting~
God bless~


You needed to ship the mouse abroad if it wasn't USA only. That is money again. No idea how expensive that would be USA only. But if you had to pay ~20$ as winner just to get a mouse, it wouldn't really pay off.

Also, I don't think the solution is to randomly throw money into tournaments, that's the least acceptable thing, especially for low level tournaments. What originally got me to play Brood War was the fun, no agenda, big prizes or other money based stuff. Just the passion everyone had, the depth of the game and the challenge it was to get only halfway decent. Foreign Brood War survived and had a big amateur scene (speaking of players ranked D/C max), not because there were thousands of $$$ in it. Maybe it's just me being an old grumpy idiot, but I can't figure out what this esports madness should possibly bring other than forced happiness and artificially hyped tours. Do it because you love it, not because you are desperate =/


You're right but from my experience playing in other amateur scenes, without a prize you get a lot of no shows and walkovers. There's lots of excitement for the beginning stages of a tournament but can often end without completion if people see it as a low priority in their schedules since there's no prize.


Yes, that's a good point. The community is growing older and people will not show for stuff, because the real life is important. But still, I'd like to have a slight shift in the attitude. The DRTLs gives me a lot of hope, it seems a lot of newer players are competing again and build a sub community of their own. This is the kind of stuff that needs support, too, after all that's where new talents come from. I for one could never really relate to those, that were only sticking around to grab money, even though they displayed great skill sometimes.

Edit:
I don't want to say that money prized events are bad, the contrary, but it should not be our only and most important goal to finance a handful of top players. A tour with money can be good, but it is not the key to entertainment.
@DonGeckone on Twitterstuff // JOIN THE YODA FANCLUB OR YOU'RE REALLY REALLY UNCOOL: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=398220
thezanursic
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
5478 Posts
August 05 2012 22:07 GMT
#69
On August 06 2012 03:26 Gecko[Xp] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 06 2012 03:15 GGzerG wrote:
Nice writeup, I am a believer. I think we need to get CRTL / C ranks individual tournament started again, along side more daily tournaments , it wouldn't be hard, people just need to host them. I think even if it is for free or something as small as 5$ it would be awesome and fun to play in , the problem is that I guess there is never enough players ? But I think that after something amazing like this is released then more people will be interested in playing BW again, I enjoyed reading this and you're guys enthusiasm towards BW, it is great. I will gladly take some time to help with managing something like a CRTL or C ranks individual tournament, I don't have money to provide as a prize incentive but I would be willing to donate gaming mice as a prize for the tournaments to help the cause.

BW Fighting~
God bless~


You needed to ship the mouse abroad if it wasn't USA only. That is money again. No idea how expensive that would be USA only. But if you had to pay ~20$ as winner just to get a mouse, it wouldn't really pay off.

Also, I don't think the solution is to randomly throw money into tournaments, that's the least acceptable thing, especially for low level tournaments. What originally got me to play Brood War was the fun, no agenda, big prizes or other money based stuff. Just the passion everyone had, the depth of the game and the challenge it was to get only halfway decent. Foreign Brood War survived and had a big amateur scene (speaking of players ranked D/C max), not because there were thousands of $$$ in it. Maybe it's just me being an old grumpy idiot, but I can't figure out what this esports madness should possibly bring other than forced happiness and artificially hyped tours. Do it because you love it, not because you are desperate =/


I disagree

10$ weekly a week C tournamets

and

20$ weekly A/B tournaments

Would be enough people need this kinds of low level tournaments. ISL and Teamleagues are enough to keep high level people who love BW playing.

For instance let's say we get a 10$ weekly C and 20$ weekly A/B and that's what 30$ per week and about 1500$ per year now that's not very costly (I'm assuming other things don't cost much, but I don't know).

I think we could probably kickstart a weekly tournament for all ranks and then divide them between the tournaments.

We could actually do a lot with a kickstarter, but most importantly of all is advertisement and I don't mean the revenue type, but we advertising Brood war to different communities posting an indepth post about BW on community sites such as reddit never hurts as long as you are constructive.

Do you know what? If you play lol go to the community site of your choice and post about Brood war in the appropriate section of the forum.

Brood war doesn't need massive amounts of numbers to sustain itself, but newblood would be good.



I would also try to basically beg Blizzard to release BW on to stream as I explained why in this thread:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=358115 , but everybody is being negative about it even tho we could theoretically at least try.
http://i45.tinypic.com/9j2cdc.jpg Let it be so!
GeckoVOD
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
Germany814 Posts
August 05 2012 22:43 GMT
#70
On August 06 2012 07:07 thezanursic wrote:
...


Don't get me wrong, I really appreciate the efforts everyone makes. More so, when these efforts are real, as in people actually do something. However, this discussion has nothing to do with the thread and I already regret to post something that is more or less completely off topic, that's why I'll stop here and maybe outsource it to a blog or something.

All in all, we should appreciate the spirit behind this project and the work 2pac- and the others put in here (just want to point out I didn't really contribute anything so far, all hail 2pac-!), as it shows there's still something to watch and I'm sure the upcoming volumes will bring even more.
@DonGeckone on Twitterstuff // JOIN THE YODA FANCLUB OR YOU'RE REALLY REALLY UNCOOL: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=398220
Anomarad
Profile Joined June 2010
Canada565 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-05 22:53:18
August 05 2012 22:53 GMT
#71
I think for Vol 2 it would be cool to have some player profiles/interviews maybe with a picture, give the players some faces.

Just a suggestion
ZaRaki_
Profile Joined March 2011
Spain126 Posts
August 06 2012 00:01 GMT
#72
love u guys bw <3
Ribbon
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5278 Posts
August 06 2012 00:39 GMT
#73
On August 06 2012 07:07 thezanursic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 06 2012 03:26 Gecko[Xp] wrote:
On August 06 2012 03:15 GGzerG wrote:
Nice writeup, I am a believer. I think we need to get CRTL / C ranks individual tournament started again, along side more daily tournaments , it wouldn't be hard, people just need to host them. I think even if it is for free or something as small as 5$ it would be awesome and fun to play in , the problem is that I guess there is never enough players ? But I think that after something amazing like this is released then more people will be interested in playing BW again, I enjoyed reading this and you're guys enthusiasm towards BW, it is great. I will gladly take some time to help with managing something like a CRTL or C ranks individual tournament, I don't have money to provide as a prize incentive but I would be willing to donate gaming mice as a prize for the tournaments to help the cause.

BW Fighting~
God bless~


You needed to ship the mouse abroad if it wasn't USA only. That is money again. No idea how expensive that would be USA only. But if you had to pay ~20$ as winner just to get a mouse, it wouldn't really pay off.

Also, I don't think the solution is to randomly throw money into tournaments, that's the least acceptable thing, especially for low level tournaments. What originally got me to play Brood War was the fun, no agenda, big prizes or other money based stuff. Just the passion everyone had, the depth of the game and the challenge it was to get only halfway decent. Foreign Brood War survived and had a big amateur scene (speaking of players ranked D/C max), not because there were thousands of $$$ in it. Maybe it's just me being an old grumpy idiot, but I can't figure out what this esports madness should possibly bring other than forced happiness and artificially hyped tours. Do it because you love it, not because you are desperate =/


I disagree

10$ weekly a week C tournamets

and

20$ weekly A/B tournaments

Would be enough people need this kinds of low level tournaments. ISL and Teamleagues are enough to keep high level people who love BW playing.

For instance let's say we get a 10$ weekly C and 20$ weekly A/B and that's what 30$ per week and about 1500$ per year now that's not very costly (I'm assuming other things don't cost much, but I don't know).

I think we could probably kickstart a weekly tournament for all ranks and then divide them between the tournaments.


I think we'll end up with a few different tournament "leagues" with different sources of funding. I think it's reasonable to have

A weekly cup with little to no prizepool
12 $100+ tournaments a year (one a month. Game's been sitting on the prize pools for two separate Ribbon tournaments for a while)
The ISL.

We could, if we wanted to, make the smaller tournaments count for ranking among the bigger ones in some way, and have it be more like a giant neverending tournament. Like, lets say I did a tournament every 3 months, and invited the person who did best in the Defiler Weekly cups since my last tournament. And while my "TvT only but you're only allowed to make 1 factory all game so you can't mech" ideas are silly (and, actually, awesome), a more serious monthly tournament could be used for ISL ranking. This allows the smaller tournaments to have a bit more oomph, because they can help you win the bigger ones.
dRaW
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Canada5744 Posts
August 06 2012 01:41 GMT
#74
hey this is great, just make sure to keep up to date :D
I don't need luck, luck is for noobs, good luck to you though
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
August 06 2012 01:42 GMT
#75
Fucking incredible, this is just, terrific. I love this move!
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Caihead
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada8550 Posts
August 06 2012 01:55 GMT
#76
On August 06 2012 00:53 Gecko[Xp] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 06 2012 00:51 Caihead wrote:
On August 06 2012 00:42 ImbaTosS wrote:
On August 05 2012 21:38 Caihead wrote:
It would be really awesome / useful if any writers / graphix / TL admin or mod could help me / directly contact Chinese BW representatives, I can set up the communication channels for such events as exhibition matches, formal and informal partnerships, and so on. Right now it's pretty much me doing all of it myself and my schedule is really unforgiving. Please PM me if you are interested.

edit: There are plenty of intermediates i.e. chinese community members who are well spoken in english / korean, so the language barrier wouldn't be an issue as long as there was an intermediate present. Various contact infos can be given on request. Thank you

It might even be worth starting a new topic to try and pick up some official help for the cause. Sounds like an awful lot for one guy to do.


Recreationally too lol, im a free lancer with out affiliation basically ^-^

Will compile something soon then.


Please do! I'm not sure I can help (time and skill wise) and the post of yours doesn't really describe what exactly you need. I'd like to know a few more details before I try to help but make it worse / get hopes up for nothing :/


well everything I have so far is basically compiled in this. Since I'm not "officially" affiliated with any of the groups (TL, plu, 8da, playsc, wfbrood, liansai, or management of the teams etc) I'm not sure how to phrase my requests. Will try to put something together though.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349688
"If you're not living in the US or are a US Citizen, please do not tell us how to vote or how you want our country to be governed." - Serpest, American Hero
Caihead
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada8550 Posts
August 06 2012 02:03 GMT
#77
On August 06 2012 03:41 puppykiller wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 06 2012 03:26 Gecko[Xp] wrote:
On August 06 2012 03:15 GGzerG wrote:
Nice writeup, I am a believer. I think we need to get CRTL / C ranks individual tournament started again, along side more daily tournaments , it wouldn't be hard, people just need to host them. I think even if it is for free or something as small as 5$ it would be awesome and fun to play in , the problem is that I guess there is never enough players ? But I think that after something amazing like this is released then more people will be interested in playing BW again, I enjoyed reading this and you're guys enthusiasm towards BW, it is great. I will gladly take some time to help with managing something like a CRTL or C ranks individual tournament, I don't have money to provide as a prize incentive but I would be willing to donate gaming mice as a prize for the tournaments to help the cause.

BW Fighting~
God bless~


You needed to ship the mouse abroad if it wasn't USA only. That is money again. No idea how expensive that would be USA only. But if you had to pay ~20$ as winner just to get a mouse, it wouldn't really pay off.

Also, I don't think the solution is to randomly throw money into tournaments, that's the least acceptable thing, especially for low level tournaments. What originally got me to play Brood War was the fun, no agenda, big prizes or other money based stuff. Just the passion everyone had, the depth of the game and the challenge it was to get only halfway decent. Foreign Brood War survived and had a big amateur scene (speaking of players ranked D/C max), not because there were thousands of $$$ in it. Maybe it's just me being an old grumpy idiot, but I can't figure out what this esports madness should possibly bring other than forced happiness and artificially hyped tours. Do it because you love it, not because you are desperate =/


I agree with Gecko. I think that we should limit the amount of money we spend on prizes. No fan likes donating. I think people will still play just for the prestige.


Well in China most fans do donate, infact most fans would rather donate to fund a prize pool for a tourny than buy merchandise, the C-OSL is entirely funded by donations.
"If you're not living in the US or are a US Citizen, please do not tell us how to vote or how you want our country to be governed." - Serpest, American Hero
Xiphos
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada7507 Posts
August 06 2012 03:23 GMT
#78
On August 06 2012 11:03 Caihead wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 06 2012 03:41 puppykiller wrote:
On August 06 2012 03:26 Gecko[Xp] wrote:
On August 06 2012 03:15 GGzerG wrote:
Nice writeup, I am a believer. I think we need to get CRTL / C ranks individual tournament started again, along side more daily tournaments , it wouldn't be hard, people just need to host them. I think even if it is for free or something as small as 5$ it would be awesome and fun to play in , the problem is that I guess there is never enough players ? But I think that after something amazing like this is released then more people will be interested in playing BW again, I enjoyed reading this and you're guys enthusiasm towards BW, it is great. I will gladly take some time to help with managing something like a CRTL or C ranks individual tournament, I don't have money to provide as a prize incentive but I would be willing to donate gaming mice as a prize for the tournaments to help the cause.

BW Fighting~
God bless~


You needed to ship the mouse abroad if it wasn't USA only. That is money again. No idea how expensive that would be USA only. But if you had to pay ~20$ as winner just to get a mouse, it wouldn't really pay off.

Also, I don't think the solution is to randomly throw money into tournaments, that's the least acceptable thing, especially for low level tournaments. What originally got me to play Brood War was the fun, no agenda, big prizes or other money based stuff. Just the passion everyone had, the depth of the game and the challenge it was to get only halfway decent. Foreign Brood War survived and had a big amateur scene (speaking of players ranked D/C max), not because there were thousands of $$$ in it. Maybe it's just me being an old grumpy idiot, but I can't figure out what this esports madness should possibly bring other than forced happiness and artificially hyped tours. Do it because you love it, not because you are desperate =/


I agree with Gecko. I think that we should limit the amount of money we spend on prizes. No fan likes donating. I think people will still play just for the prestige.


Well in China most fans do donate, infact most fans would rather donate to fund a prize pool for a tourny than buy merchandise, the C-OSL is entirely funded by donations.


When I'll secure myself a proper career, I'll gladly support the scene with $1.5K/year.

Idk why didn't the actual OSL switched their sponsorship method with Pay Per View method though.
2014 - ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ Raise your bows brood warriors! ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ
Ribbon
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5278 Posts
August 06 2012 05:55 GMT
#79
On August 06 2012 12:23 Xiphos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 06 2012 11:03 Caihead wrote:
On August 06 2012 03:41 puppykiller wrote:
On August 06 2012 03:26 Gecko[Xp] wrote:
On August 06 2012 03:15 GGzerG wrote:
Nice writeup, I am a believer. I think we need to get CRTL / C ranks individual tournament started again, along side more daily tournaments , it wouldn't be hard, people just need to host them. I think even if it is for free or something as small as 5$ it would be awesome and fun to play in , the problem is that I guess there is never enough players ? But I think that after something amazing like this is released then more people will be interested in playing BW again, I enjoyed reading this and you're guys enthusiasm towards BW, it is great. I will gladly take some time to help with managing something like a CRTL or C ranks individual tournament, I don't have money to provide as a prize incentive but I would be willing to donate gaming mice as a prize for the tournaments to help the cause.

BW Fighting~
God bless~


You needed to ship the mouse abroad if it wasn't USA only. That is money again. No idea how expensive that would be USA only. But if you had to pay ~20$ as winner just to get a mouse, it wouldn't really pay off.

Also, I don't think the solution is to randomly throw money into tournaments, that's the least acceptable thing, especially for low level tournaments. What originally got me to play Brood War was the fun, no agenda, big prizes or other money based stuff. Just the passion everyone had, the depth of the game and the challenge it was to get only halfway decent. Foreign Brood War survived and had a big amateur scene (speaking of players ranked D/C max), not because there were thousands of $$$ in it. Maybe it's just me being an old grumpy idiot, but I can't figure out what this esports madness should possibly bring other than forced happiness and artificially hyped tours. Do it because you love it, not because you are desperate =/


I agree with Gecko. I think that we should limit the amount of money we spend on prizes. No fan likes donating. I think people will still play just for the prestige.


Well in China most fans do donate, infact most fans would rather donate to fund a prize pool for a tourny than buy merchandise, the C-OSL is entirely funded by donations.


When I'll secure myself a proper career, I'll gladly support the scene with $1.5K/year.

Idk why didn't the actual OSL switched their sponsorship method with Pay Per View method though.


Let's be inspired by KeSPA's triumphs, and learn from their mistakes.
Jonoman92
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
United States9102 Posts
August 06 2012 08:29 GMT
#80
Nicely done 2pac! THSL is supposed to be fun? I regard my success in that as a life or death matter.
Mewka
Profile Joined February 2011
Poland1458 Posts
August 06 2012 10:14 GMT
#81
Good good read, amazing interview from Mote
But Corum, not a single word about Noise Amatour Starligue ;o
Mewka, Mewka[AoV], Fox.Mewka, Mewman
SirJolt
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
the Dagon Knight4002 Posts
August 06 2012 14:27 GMT
#82
If anyone wants a league to be featured, please remember that there's more going on than most people think; it can be hard to get around to them. I haven't asked him yet, but I'm hoping he'll excuse my presumptuousness when I say that anyone who thinks a leage should be included should PM 2pacalypse and it will be, at the very least, considered

That said, though Game seems to insinuate something else, we're a small team and we don't have infinite time. There will be leagues that don't always get covered, but we're doing our best
Moderator@SirJolt
JFKWT
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Singapore1442 Posts
August 06 2012 15:07 GMT
#83
On August 05 2012 04:08 NbSky wrote:
well done pac!


I finally realised the pun in 2pac's name
The calm before the storm / "loli is not a crime, but meganekko is the way to go!"
Sum41
Profile Joined November 2011
Chile345 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-07 20:23:18
August 06 2012 18:03 GMT
#84
so awesome, i'll be always following the foreign scene
Hydralisk so fasts and dangerous :D
TheShimmy
Profile Joined January 2011
United States1808 Posts
August 07 2012 01:28 GMT
#85
It'd be awesome if you could The Rush Week tourney some love. Collegiate BW will finally have a champion (again?) and I'm thinking its gonna be competitive. Also, sweet work on this. BW Forever!!

Will there ever be another Nation War? Whens the next ISL?
Hyvaa #1 Fan. Gogo STX, Dear, Bogus, Classic, and Mini! Always a BW fan!
ImbaTosS
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United Kingdom1667 Posts
August 07 2012 08:43 GMT
#86
On August 07 2012 10:28 TheShimmy wrote:
It'd be awesome if you could The Rush Week tourney some love. Collegiate BW will finally have a champion (again?) and I'm thinking its gonna be competitive. Also, sweet work on this. BW Forever!!

Will there ever be another Nation War? Whens the next ISL?

I think there may be some plan on the Nation War front. IDK if it's been aired yet, or specifics, so I won't put up any details. ISL is one of those things- whenever it happens, there must be another. I'm not even worried about that, I'm just sure there will be. I think it's valuable to give time inbetween though, to allow some fresh players to come forward.
EleGant[AoV]
[sc1f]eonzerg
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Belgium6505 Posts
August 07 2012 09:36 GMT
#87
On August 07 2012 17:43 ImbaTosS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 07 2012 10:28 TheShimmy wrote:
It'd be awesome if you could The Rush Week tourney some love. Collegiate BW will finally have a champion (again?) and I'm thinking its gonna be competitive. Also, sweet work on this. BW Forever!!

Will there ever be another Nation War? Whens the next ISL?

I think there may be some plan on the Nation War front. IDK if it's been aired yet, or specifics, so I won't put up any details. ISL is one of those things- whenever it happens, there must be another. I'm not even worried about that, I'm just sure there will be. I think it's valuable to give time inbetween though, to allow some fresh players to come forward.

so we need resurrected facebook wroup ? WE ?
Crimson)S(hadow
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
Philippines525 Posts
August 07 2012 10:28 GMT
#88
the game needs you sayle T__T
"It's the end of the BW era which i devoted everything to for 10 years. I tried playing sc2, but my BW memories run too deep; I felt like I was playing an entirely different game" -ToSsGirL
Caihead
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada8550 Posts
August 07 2012 14:52 GMT
#89
unfortunately I'm going to europe starting tomorrow for around 10 days, so I can't update a thread regarding chinese bw relations, but feel free to pm me in the mean time I will look at them when I can, thanks.
"If you're not living in the US or are a US Citizen, please do not tell us how to vote or how you want our country to be governed." - Serpest, American Hero
Maynarde
Profile Joined September 2010
Australia1286 Posts
August 07 2012 15:00 GMT
#90
Awesome to see the coverage of BW continue (hopefully forever) mad props, sickest OP.
CommentatorAustralian SC2 Caster | Twitter: @MaynardeSC2 | Twitch: twitch.tv/maynarde
[sc1f]eonzerg
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Belgium6505 Posts
August 08 2012 19:42 GMT
#91
i believe if bw live alot is cuz the map updates. whats we gonna do about this ? Oo
Pholon
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Netherlands6142 Posts
August 08 2012 20:32 GMT
#92
On August 09 2012 04:42 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
i believe if bw live alot is cuz the map updates. whats we gonna do about this ? Oo


art of war & solar flare obviously
Moderator@TLPholon // "I need a third hand to facepalm right now"
Ribbon
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5278 Posts
August 08 2012 20:41 GMT
#93
On August 09 2012 04:42 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
i believe if bw live alot is cuz the map updates. whats we gonna do about this ? Oo


Make our own maps, I guess. I'd be willing to run a tournament on community-made maps.
Eywa-
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada4876 Posts
August 08 2012 21:36 GMT
#94
On August 09 2012 05:32 Pholon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2012 04:42 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
i believe if bw live alot is cuz the map updates. whats we gonna do about this ? Oo


art of war & solar flare obviously

Neither of these maps are ever going to see tournament play unless someone actually sponsored that specifically, but there is really no way they'll make it into any kind of league.
Being mannered is almost as important as winning. Almost...
Eywa-
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada4876 Posts
August 08 2012 21:39 GMT
#95
On August 09 2012 05:41 Ribbon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2012 04:42 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
i believe if bw live alot is cuz the map updates. whats we gonna do about this ? Oo


Make our own maps, I guess. I'd be willing to run a tournament on community-made maps.

There's more to it than that, you'd need to have a community willing to create maps for the sake of map developers to take their map, revise it, look over every single aspect and then either take a fraction of that work and apply it to another more inclusive scenario. Obviously, someone can do this on their own if it's entirely revised, well designed, balanced, etc. However, the grand majority of publicly submitted maps would contain a few good ideas which may be carried onto another design. So, it would have to be made clear to people that by submitting maps they'd be opening the door to alteration and/or extraction of the ideas which I don't think people would be too keen on.
Being mannered is almost as important as winning. Almost...
ghrur
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States3786 Posts
August 08 2012 22:44 GMT
#96
On August 09 2012 05:41 Ribbon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2012 04:42 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
i believe if bw live alot is cuz the map updates. whats we gonna do about this ? Oo


Make our own maps, I guess. I'd be willing to run a tournament on community-made maps.


Oooooo, host a Konadora map tournament. ^_^
darkness overpowering
JohnBall
Profile Joined December 2008
Brazil1272 Posts
August 08 2012 23:49 GMT
#97
This is great. Almost enought to make me want to improve my BW again.
perfecting the art of five pool forever
Xiphos
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada7507 Posts
August 09 2012 00:00 GMT
#98
On August 09 2012 06:39 Eywa- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2012 05:41 Ribbon wrote:
On August 09 2012 04:42 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
i believe if bw live alot is cuz the map updates. whats we gonna do about this ? Oo


Make our own maps, I guess. I'd be willing to run a tournament on community-made maps.

There's more to it than that, you'd need to have a community willing to create maps for the sake of map developers to take their map, revise it, look over every single aspect and then either take a fraction of that work and apply it to another more inclusive scenario. Obviously, someone can do this on their own if it's entirely revised, well designed, balanced, etc. However, the grand majority of publicly submitted maps would contain a few good ideas which may be carried onto another design. So, it would have to be made clear to people that by submitting maps they'd be opening the door to alteration and/or extraction of the ideas which I don't think people would be too keen on.


Or get some Korean to contact Rose.Of.Dream. Isn't he still around?
2014 - ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ Raise your bows brood warriors! ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ
TheShimmy
Profile Joined January 2011
United States1808 Posts
August 09 2012 00:36 GMT
#99
I was also thinking about the map situation. I think it needs its own thread. The obvious best way to carry on new, fresh maps is community map tourneys, then infusing those maps into tournaments and leagues, especially the leagues with high level of play (The CSTL, Gambit's Cup, ISL, SRW, etc.)
Hyvaa #1 Fan. Gogo STX, Dear, Bogus, Classic, and Mini! Always a BW fan!
Game
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
3191 Posts
August 09 2012 00:58 GMT
#100
On August 09 2012 09:36 TheShimmy wrote:
I was also thinking about the map situation. I think it needs its own thread. The obvious best way to carry on new, fresh maps is community map tourneys, then infusing those maps into tournaments and leagues, especially the leagues with high level of play (The CSTL, Gambit's Cup, ISL, SRW, etc.)

I hate to be the naysayer here, but there have been multiple threads in the past where an initiative to create new maps was formed. All of them failed due to a combination of old maps by map makers were posted, or rushed and otherwise useless ones having formed, drowning any thoughtful initiatives. If there was going to be a map making effort I personally believe it'd have to be a private matter with a private congregation of map makers and the organizers who would use them. Testing could be easily fulfilled by an organizer or two, and a couple of players.
SC is like sex. You should play often, but never too hard. And you should only try hard when it matters.
StorkHwaiting
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States3465 Posts
August 09 2012 01:05 GMT
#101
Epic OP! Thanks for this!
TheShimmy
Profile Joined January 2011
United States1808 Posts
August 09 2012 01:21 GMT
#102
On August 09 2012 09:58 Game wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2012 09:36 TheShimmy wrote:
I was also thinking about the map situation. I think it needs its own thread. The obvious best way to carry on new, fresh maps is community map tourneys, then infusing those maps into tournaments and leagues, especially the leagues with high level of play (The CSTL, Gambit's Cup, ISL, SRW, etc.)

I hate to be the naysayer here, but there have been multiple threads in the past where an initiative to create new maps was formed. All of them failed due to a combination of old maps by map makers were posted, or rushed and otherwise useless ones having formed, drowning any thoughtful initiatives. If there was going to be a map making effort I personally believe it'd have to be a private matter with a private congregation of map makers and the organizers who would use them. Testing could be easily fulfilled by an organizer or two, and a couple of players.


Game is absolutely correct. Cynical, but correct. I feel like this community has some good mapmakers in it, and players who'd be willing to practice maps in-between leagues. I'd be willing to jump in on a commitee to push for new maps, and I feel like Eywa should as well if he is going to continue to head up the GC. The GC and future ISLs will be the mold that other tourneys will mold themselves after.
Hyvaa #1 Fan. Gogo STX, Dear, Bogus, Classic, and Mini! Always a BW fan!
puppykiller
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States3126 Posts
August 09 2012 02:08 GMT
#103
I think that we should hold off on making new maps until the community really craves them. There isn't going to be a need for the for at least a year. I think any earlier attempts to introduce new maps will fail, because players will still prefer the kespa maps and the newer amateur maps will feel forced upon them.
Why would I play sctoo when I can play BW?
dRaW
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Canada5744 Posts
August 09 2012 02:31 GMT
#104
gotta also add that a lot of map makers don't really play the game enough to make balanced maps
I don't need luck, luck is for noobs, good luck to you though
Pholon
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Netherlands6142 Posts
August 09 2012 08:24 GMT
#105
why make maps when we've got maps. Panschk released another 6 map pack about a week ago that looks promising enough.
Moderator@TLPholon // "I need a third hand to facepalm right now"
Eywa-
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada4876 Posts
August 09 2012 11:31 GMT
#106
On August 09 2012 11:31 dRaW wrote:
gotta also add that a lot of map makers don't really play the game enough to make balanced maps

Kespa maps are not balanced for the most part.
Being mannered is almost as important as winning. Almost...
TheShimmy
Profile Joined January 2011
United States1808 Posts
August 09 2012 13:14 GMT
#107
On August 09 2012 20:31 Eywa- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2012 11:31 dRaW wrote:
gotta also add that a lot of map makers don't really play the game enough to make balanced maps

Kespa maps are not balanced for the most part.


This is done intentionally to provoke creative and non-standard play for IMBA matchups on certain maps. KeSPA had to keep ratings up so standard v standard would certainly be boring. But I like having a few less than balanced maps so certain matchups can be dynamic and change.
Hyvaa #1 Fan. Gogo STX, Dear, Bogus, Classic, and Mini! Always a BW fan!
GeckoVOD
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
Germany814 Posts
August 09 2012 14:43 GMT
#108
On August 09 2012 10:21 TheShimmy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2012 09:58 Game wrote:
On August 09 2012 09:36 TheShimmy wrote:
I was also thinking about the map situation. I think it needs its own thread. The obvious best way to carry on new, fresh maps is community map tourneys, then infusing those maps into tournaments and leagues, especially the leagues with high level of play (The CSTL, Gambit's Cup, ISL, SRW, etc.)

I hate to be the naysayer here, but there have been multiple threads in the past where an initiative to create new maps was formed. All of them failed due to a combination of old maps by map makers were posted, or rushed and otherwise useless ones having formed, drowning any thoughtful initiatives. If there was going to be a map making effort I personally believe it'd have to be a private matter with a private congregation of map makers and the organizers who would use them. Testing could be easily fulfilled by an organizer or two, and a couple of players.


Game is absolutely correct. Cynical, but correct. I feel like this community has some good mapmakers in it, and players who'd be willing to practice maps in-between leagues. I'd be willing to jump in on a commitee to push for new maps, and I feel like Eywa should as well if he is going to continue to head up the GC. The GC and future ISLs will be the mold that other tourneys will mold themselves after.


Assuming that Koreans don't do new maps themselves. I think if they were to use new maps, a lot of the players would just adapt them. Besides, as the Dutch already said, Panschk and users of his page released a lot of really good maps that were actually used in different leagues and official Blizzard events. Someone just needs to contact them and ask them for it. If there was actually a demand for new maps right now. :|

On August 09 2012 20:31 Eywa- wrote:
Kespa maps are not balanced for the most part.


Source and statistics please. I don't think you can judge this as a low level D player that has only been around for about a few years. :/
@DonGeckone on Twitterstuff // JOIN THE YODA FANCLUB OR YOU'RE REALLY REALLY UNCOOL: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=398220
Azera
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3800 Posts
August 10 2012 03:16 GMT
#109
I'm pretty interested to see how something like this will take off. I think what this scene needs ASAP is someone like Husky to do what he did for SC2 to BW.
Check out some great music made by TLers - http://bit.ly/QXYhdb , by intrigue. http://bit.ly/RTjpOR , by ohsea.toc.
Stratos
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Czech Republic6104 Posts
August 11 2012 22:09 GMT
#110
Amazing job on this, can't wait for the next one!
En Taro Violet
Nymphaceae
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States350 Posts
August 12 2012 00:02 GMT
#111
Keep up the good work! I think the CSL league should be sc2 and BW now. It would be so much more exciting that way.
Bibbit
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Canada5377 Posts
August 14 2012 01:59 GMT
#112
Hi, I dont know if this is the best place to ask but it seems okay.

What's the general skill level of foreign Brood War right now? Compared to before Sc2 hit (like TSL 2)?
corumjhaelen
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
France6884 Posts
August 14 2012 02:06 GMT
#113
On August 14 2012 10:59 Bibbit wrote:
Hi, I dont know if this is the best place to ask but it seems okay.

What's the general skill level of foreign Brood War right now? Compared to before Sc2 hit (like TSL 2)?

Hard to say. Lower, clearly, but someone like Sziky is objectively very good. I suggest you watch some games, to see for yourself :-)
‎numquam se plus agere quam nihil cum ageret, numquam minus solum esse quam cum solus esset
L3gendary
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada1470 Posts
August 14 2012 02:24 GMT
#114
On August 14 2012 10:59 Bibbit wrote:
Hi, I dont know if this is the best place to ask but it seems okay.

What's the general skill level of foreign Brood War right now? Compared to before Sc2 hit (like TSL 2)?


Idk but ISL3 final felt like higher level play than PL games from this season.
Watching Jaedong play purifies my eyes. -Coach Ju Hoon
hacklebeast
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5090 Posts
August 14 2012 04:42 GMT
#115
On August 14 2012 10:59 Bibbit wrote:
Hi, I dont know if this is the best place to ask but it seems okay.

What's the general skill level of foreign Brood War right now? Compared to before Sc2 hit (like TSL 2)?


Depends on how you look at it. If you take the best 30 players right now and compare it to tsl2 qualifiers, the tsl2 qualifiers are better (assuming that they kept practicing for past 2 years and kept up with modern trends). But there are some people who play now who could potentially get top 8 in tsl (sziky was like #7 on the tsl ladder, and even better now) and if you look at it in terms of talented people as a percentage of the player base, I'd say it's similar.
Protoss: Best, Paralyze, Jangbi, Nal_Ra || Terran: Oov, Boxer, Fantasy, Hiya|| Zerg: Yellow, Zero
Sinedd
Profile Joined July 2008
Poland7052 Posts
August 14 2012 14:25 GMT
#116
nice article

go go go BW !!! :D
T H C makes ppl happy
Aerisky
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States12129 Posts
August 18 2012 00:16 GMT
#117
Fantastic article. BW <3

Thank you mr HybridProleague for providing the reckoning that was answered by GMarshal's hopeful link to this
Jim while Johnny had had had had had had had; had had had had the better effect on the teacher.
Meapak_Ziphh
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States6785 Posts
August 18 2012 05:51 GMT
#118
I only just saw this, great thread 2Pac!
Forti et Fideli ~ TL Mafia Forum: Come play with us! ~ Go Samsung KHAN, Stork, JangBi , Shine, Grape, and TurN Fighting!~ wat
ImbaTosS
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United Kingdom1667 Posts
August 18 2012 08:18 GMT
#119
On August 18 2012 09:16 Aerisky wrote:
Fantastic article. BW <3

Thank you mr HybridProleague for providing the reckoning that was answered by GMarshal's hopeful link to this

Hahaha that thread...
EleGant[AoV]
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