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If you derail this thread to argue about SC2 vs BW in any context other than that of the interview (e.g. saying things like "colosi suck" or "all BW fans are elitist jerks!"), I will ban you for at least a week, if not more. This is your only warning. I added this page 17
You have been warned
~GMarshal |
I hate to be pessimistic, but I don't see a real solution to the problems Stork talks about. Forminga player's union isn't that easy to begin with, and even if that happens, I don't know if Kespa would even consider to work with them. The power base from which the players are starting is just too damn low. Just look at F1: last year, there was a big debate between the FIA (which is equivalent in power to Kespa) and the F1 teams over changes in the rules (and the usage of different engines, I believe). Because the FIA wasn't listening, they founded the FOTA team association to finally come to a compromise.
What I want to say that even with their much better position than what the BW pros are in right now, the F1 teams had to struggle for a very long time and didn't even reach it's main goals. The chance that Kespa doesn't just pull sponsorship on all teams that participate / ban them from kespa-ruled progaming is not that big in my eyes  Really, Kespa never seemed like they were willing to do compromises at all if they weren't forced to do so by bigger powers.
If anybody has a good idea how the overall problem could be solved once a players union is established, please let me know the dimensions of the Kespa problem are really depressing to me.
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On May 24 2012 02:26 shaftofpleasure wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2012 02:07 SlowBullets wrote:
Yup, the general trend: too many SC2 players saying they "loved" Brood War yet lack the basic knowledge of how the game actually works. Then they say they played it when they were 10 (probably playing Bunker Wars and other UMS all day) without ever following the pro scene.
I'm sure they love the game all right. That's how stupid people work, what did you fucking expect from them? Show nested quote +On May 24 2012 02:26 randoomguy wrote:On May 24 2012 01:58 Jealous wrote:On May 23 2012 22:29 DeluXe1337 wrote:
I do still feel that BW is a pretty good game. The balance is good and the metagame is pretty solid like going mech in a TvP. If only most of the foreigners like mself didnt care to much on the graphics and had the multitasking to use control groups of onl 8 then i think that BW would still be great. However, SC2 was marketted towards foreigners. Aslong as people like Stork stay on the BW pro scene it will still be a popular game (unless sc2 gets LAN) Control groups are 12. Way to make it completely obvious that you don't know what you are talking about. If you don't even know the most basic facts, how can you form such a solid opinion? It's SC2 fans like this that post in BW threads that really get my blood boiling. "Don't have shit to say then don't say shit." - Pase Rock isn't the more important thing what he is saying?and also that he is supporting BW.really this is why people hate bw elitist.don't be a fucking dick just because he made a small mistake.the message is the more important thing.don't u think? So it's elitist now to hate on stupid post by stupid posters? That's a stupid idea....
Hey man what's your problem? I LOVE BW, I remember when it first came out I used to play the campaign all the time for a day, but it got pretty hard when you can only have 6 in a control group and the stalkers walk really strangely.
If you really loved BW, you would let it go.
PS: I can't wait to see Bisu micro a collossus
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On May 24 2012 03:09 ProxyKnoxy wrote:
If you really loved BW, you would let it go.
Edit: Never mind, I'm Romanian...
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Im glad that players like Stork are starting to speak their minds on things I just hope the tournaments start to listen to the players!
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On May 24 2012 03:09 ProxyKnoxy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2012 02:26 shaftofpleasure wrote:On May 24 2012 02:07 SlowBullets wrote:
Yup, the general trend: too many SC2 players saying they "loved" Brood War yet lack the basic knowledge of how the game actually works. Then they say they played it when they were 10 (probably playing Bunker Wars and other UMS all day) without ever following the pro scene.
I'm sure they love the game all right. That's how stupid people work, what did you fucking expect from them? On May 24 2012 02:26 randoomguy wrote:On May 24 2012 01:58 Jealous wrote:On May 23 2012 22:29 DeluXe1337 wrote:
I do still feel that BW is a pretty good game. The balance is good and the metagame is pretty solid like going mech in a TvP. If only most of the foreigners like mself didnt care to much on the graphics and had the multitasking to use control groups of onl 8 then i think that BW would still be great. However, SC2 was marketted towards foreigners. Aslong as people like Stork stay on the BW pro scene it will still be a popular game (unless sc2 gets LAN) Control groups are 12. Way to make it completely obvious that you don't know what you are talking about. If you don't even know the most basic facts, how can you form such a solid opinion? It's SC2 fans like this that post in BW threads that really get my blood boiling. "Don't have shit to say then don't say shit." - Pase Rock isn't the more important thing what he is saying?and also that he is supporting BW.really this is why people hate bw elitist.don't be a fucking dick just because he made a small mistake.the message is the more important thing.don't u think? So it's elitist now to hate on stupid post by stupid posters? That's a stupid idea.... Hey man what's your problem? I LOVE BW, I remember when it first came out I used to play the campaign all the time for a day, but it got pretty hard when you can only have 6 in a control group and the stalkers walk really strangely. If you really loved BW, you would let it go.PS: I can't wait to see Bisu micro a collossus
.............
what the fuck did I just read?
This post is the perfect example as an example of what I stated last page. Thanks for confirming what I see.
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On May 24 2012 02:26 shaftofpleasure wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2012 02:07 SlowBullets wrote:
Yup, the general trend: too many SC2 players saying they "loved" Brood War yet lack the basic knowledge of how the game actually works. Then they say they played it when they were 10 (probably playing Bunker Wars and other UMS all day) without ever following the pro scene.
I'm sure they love the game all right. That's how stupid people work, what did you fucking expect from them? Show nested quote +On May 24 2012 02:26 randoomguy wrote:On May 24 2012 01:58 Jealous wrote:On May 23 2012 22:29 DeluXe1337 wrote:
I do still feel that BW is a pretty good game. The balance is good and the metagame is pretty solid like going mech in a TvP. If only most of the foreigners like mself didnt care to much on the graphics and had the multitasking to use control groups of onl 8 then i think that BW would still be great. However, SC2 was marketted towards foreigners. Aslong as people like Stork stay on the BW pro scene it will still be a popular game (unless sc2 gets LAN) Control groups are 12. Way to make it completely obvious that you don't know what you are talking about. If you don't even know the most basic facts, how can you form such a solid opinion? It's SC2 fans like this that post in BW threads that really get my blood boiling. "Don't have shit to say then don't say shit." - Pase Rock isn't the more important thing what he is saying?and also that he is supporting BW.really this is why people hate bw elitist.don't be a fucking dick just because he made a small mistake.the message is the more important thing.don't u think? So it's elitist now to hate on stupid post by stupid posters? That's a stupid idea....
he said that the guy was a post because he said that the other guy loved BW and couldn't such a basic thing as 12 units in one control group.but nowhere from that post i see something as'i love BW'he just said he thought the game was fairly good,how can that not be bashing?
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That was a very good action by Stork. He was one awesome gu, player and competitor.
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On May 24 2012 03:09 RageCommodore wrote:I hate to be pessimistic, but I don't see a real solution to the problems Stork talks about. Forminga player's union isn't that easy to begin with, and even if that happens, I don't know if Kespa would even consider to work with them. The power base from which the players are starting is just too damn low. Just look at F1: last year, there was a big debate between the FIA (which is equivalent in power to Kespa) and the F1 teams over changes in the rules (and the usage of different engines, I believe). Because the FIA wasn't listening, they founded the FOTA team association to finally come to a compromise. What I want to say that even with their much better position than what the BW pros are in right now, the F1 teams had to struggle for a very long time and didn't even reach it's main goals. The chance that Kespa doesn't just pull sponsorship on all teams that participate / ban them from kespa-ruled progaming is not that big in my eyes Really, Kespa never seemed like they were willing to do compromises at all if they weren't forced to do so by bigger powers. If anybody has a good idea how the overall problem could be solved once a players union is established, please let me know the dimensions of the Kespa problem are really depressing to me.
Then you failed to see why this is a very important/brave thing that Stork did.
He did it to voice out that if Kespa continues to belittle it's players and not hearing them out, current players will ultimately leave and Kespa won't have leagues to show because they don't have fucking players.
this is not about player association, this is about trying to be heard.
Why did Stork wait to have the 100th win in the OSL to express this feelings? He knew he will have a big-deal of an interview from OGN. He knew people will like to hear what he had to say for himself. His timing was impeccable.
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On May 24 2012 03:13 SlowBullets wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2012 03:09 ProxyKnoxy wrote:On May 24 2012 02:26 shaftofpleasure wrote:On May 24 2012 02:07 SlowBullets wrote:
Yup, the general trend: too many SC2 players saying they "loved" Brood War yet lack the basic knowledge of how the game actually works. Then they say they played it when they were 10 (probably playing Bunker Wars and other UMS all day) without ever following the pro scene.
I'm sure they love the game all right. That's how stupid people work, what did you fucking expect from them? On May 24 2012 02:26 randoomguy wrote:On May 24 2012 01:58 Jealous wrote:On May 23 2012 22:29 DeluXe1337 wrote:
I do still feel that BW is a pretty good game. The balance is good and the metagame is pretty solid like going mech in a TvP. If only most of the foreigners like mself didnt care to much on the graphics and had the multitasking to use control groups of onl 8 then i think that BW would still be great. However, SC2 was marketted towards foreigners. Aslong as people like Stork stay on the BW pro scene it will still be a popular game (unless sc2 gets LAN) Control groups are 12. Way to make it completely obvious that you don't know what you are talking about. If you don't even know the most basic facts, how can you form such a solid opinion? It's SC2 fans like this that post in BW threads that really get my blood boiling. "Don't have shit to say then don't say shit." - Pase Rock isn't the more important thing what he is saying?and also that he is supporting BW.really this is why people hate bw elitist.don't be a fucking dick just because he made a small mistake.the message is the more important thing.don't u think? So it's elitist now to hate on stupid post by stupid posters? That's a stupid idea.... Hey man what's your problem? I LOVE BW, I remember when it first came out I used to play the campaign all the time for a day, but it got pretty hard when you can only have 6 in a control group and the stalkers walk really strangely. If you really loved BW, you would let it go.PS: I can't wait to see Bisu micro a collossus ............. what the fuck did I just read? This post is the perfect example as an example of what I stated last page. Thanks for confirming what I see.
He's obviously just kidding... I thought it became painfully clear when he said control groups of 6 in response to a quote explaining that they were 12..
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Its sad that this is the last time we will see BW in this hybrid league and the maps arent even good. I still cannot believe its the end for progaming in BW.
I doubt Stork enjoys SC2, I'm worried about his future.
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Good on you for voicing these concerns Stork. Hopefully it results in something.
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On May 24 2012 03:16 shaftofpleasure wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2012 03:09 RageCommodore wrote:I hate to be pessimistic, but I don't see a real solution to the problems Stork talks about. Forminga player's union isn't that easy to begin with, and even if that happens, I don't know if Kespa would even consider to work with them. The power base from which the players are starting is just too damn low. Just look at F1: last year, there was a big debate between the FIA (which is equivalent in power to Kespa) and the F1 teams over changes in the rules (and the usage of different engines, I believe). Because the FIA wasn't listening, they founded the FOTA team association to finally come to a compromise. What I want to say that even with their much better position than what the BW pros are in right now, the F1 teams had to struggle for a very long time and didn't even reach it's main goals. The chance that Kespa doesn't just pull sponsorship on all teams that participate / ban them from kespa-ruled progaming is not that big in my eyes Really, Kespa never seemed like they were willing to do compromises at all if they weren't forced to do so by bigger powers. If anybody has a good idea how the overall problem could be solved once a players union is established, please let me know the dimensions of the Kespa problem are really depressing to me. Then you failed to see why this is a very important/brave thing that Stork did. He did it to voice out that if Kespa continues to belittle it's players and not hearing them out, current players will ultimately leave and Kespa won't have leagues to show because they don't have fucking players.
Do you really think that there aren't tons of rookies that would happily replace the current pros under much worse playing/ right conditions? The whole thing only works if all players work together. If only a small group of players doesn't work together with the player union, they have the potential to fail and lose everything. I understand that it was a great and brave thing to do by Stork (that had be done for a very long time), but I'm not sure that Kespa wouldn just go "well. fuck it, those guys are making too much trouble, we're outta here" and leave BW to move to other eSports like LoL?
I can think of other solutions to the problem, but none of those seem satisfying to any party.
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Stork is so brave. Not very many people could muster up the courage to actually speak their minds on a topic like this.
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On May 24 2012 02:05 Hesmyrr wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2012 01:58 Jealous wrote:On May 23 2012 22:29 DeluXe1337 wrote:
I do still feel that BW is a pretty good game. The balance is good and the metagame is pretty solid like going mech in a TvP. If only most of the foreigners like mself didnt care to much on the graphics and had the multitasking to use control groups of onl 8 then i think that BW would still be great. However, SC2 was marketted towards foreigners. Aslong as people like Stork stay on the BW pro scene it will still be a popular game (unless sc2 gets LAN) Control groups are 12. Way to make it completely obvious that you don't know what you are talking about. If you don't even know the most basic facts, how can you form such a solid opinion? It's SC2 fans like this that post in BW threads that really get my blood boiling. "Don't have shit to say then don't say shit." - Pase Rock The irony is that he seem to be arguing in side of BW, unless he is deliberately trying to provoke SC2 players into starting flame war.
The irony is that we now see SC2 people posting anything remotely positive about BW and we see it as "siding with the game" when they say things like "BW is a pretty good game" and then listing things that make SC2 "better" than BW as a reason why an entire industry is forced to jump ship. I have nothing personal against Deluxe, but when the players (and top-notch TBLS players) state things like what Stork has stated, it's painfully obvious that SC2 killed BW prematurely. If there was no SC2, ever, BW MIGHT die an eventual slow death. However, it would not have been fueled by sponsors trying to be the names behind the next new thing and greedy suits trying to make some pocket money off of an international franchise that will die when SC3 comes out or enough people realize that foreigners will never live up to the Korean standard without practicing nearly as much as they do. It seems so many people in SC2 are like the people in BW's early days - support the white people who can challenge the Koreans while the game isn't figured out yet! Oh wait, the game just got real now that the top 50 gamers are all Korean and everyone who cared about foreigners and not the game jump ship. Thanks to Brood War, and in an ironic way the PL switch to SC2 favoritism, that point is going to come much sooner than it did in BW circa 2003/2004 (5 years as opposed to... I'm going to guess 3 more for SC2 artificially enhanced by double expansion packs, and then it's GG).
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On May 24 2012 03:09 ProxyKnoxy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2012 02:26 shaftofpleasure wrote:On May 24 2012 02:07 SlowBullets wrote:
Yup, the general trend: too many SC2 players saying they "loved" Brood War yet lack the basic knowledge of how the game actually works. Then they say they played it when they were 10 (probably playing Bunker Wars and other UMS all day) without ever following the pro scene.
I'm sure they love the game all right. That's how stupid people work, what did you fucking expect from them? On May 24 2012 02:26 randoomguy wrote:On May 24 2012 01:58 Jealous wrote:On May 23 2012 22:29 DeluXe1337 wrote:
I do still feel that BW is a pretty good game. The balance is good and the metagame is pretty solid like going mech in a TvP. If only most of the foreigners like mself didnt care to much on the graphics and had the multitasking to use control groups of onl 8 then i think that BW would still be great. However, SC2 was marketted towards foreigners. Aslong as people like Stork stay on the BW pro scene it will still be a popular game (unless sc2 gets LAN) Control groups are 12. Way to make it completely obvious that you don't know what you are talking about. If you don't even know the most basic facts, how can you form such a solid opinion? It's SC2 fans like this that post in BW threads that really get my blood boiling. "Don't have shit to say then don't say shit." - Pase Rock isn't the more important thing what he is saying?and also that he is supporting BW.really this is why people hate bw elitist.don't be a fucking dick just because he made a small mistake.the message is the more important thing.don't u think? So it's elitist now to hate on stupid post by stupid posters? That's a stupid idea.... Hey man what's your problem? I LOVE BW, I remember when it first came out I used to play the campaign all the time for a day, but it got pretty hard when you can only have 6 in a control group and the stalkers walk really strangely. If you really loved BW, you would let it go. PS: I can't wait to see Bisu micro a collossus
People like you and your stupidity make me really question why I come into this forum anymore. In BW, you can have TEN units in a control groups, and those units aren't called stalkers, they are called goliaths.
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On May 24 2012 03:20 HaXxorIzed wrote:
Good on you for voicing these concerns Stork. Hopefully it results in something.
What results could be possible ? Its the last BW league and maps are already settled , and he says KeSPA is focused more on SC2 rather than BW. It's too late for BW now, if anything happens its in SC2.
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On May 24 2012 03:24 blubbdavid wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2012 03:09 ProxyKnoxy wrote:On May 24 2012 02:26 shaftofpleasure wrote:On May 24 2012 02:07 SlowBullets wrote:
Yup, the general trend: too many SC2 players saying they "loved" Brood War yet lack the basic knowledge of how the game actually works. Then they say they played it when they were 10 (probably playing Bunker Wars and other UMS all day) without ever following the pro scene.
I'm sure they love the game all right. That's how stupid people work, what did you fucking expect from them? On May 24 2012 02:26 randoomguy wrote:On May 24 2012 01:58 Jealous wrote:On May 23 2012 22:29 DeluXe1337 wrote:
I do still feel that BW is a pretty good game. The balance is good and the metagame is pretty solid like going mech in a TvP. If only most of the foreigners like mself didnt care to much on the graphics and had the multitasking to use control groups of onl 8 then i think that BW would still be great. However, SC2 was marketted towards foreigners. Aslong as people like Stork stay on the BW pro scene it will still be a popular game (unless sc2 gets LAN) Control groups are 12. Way to make it completely obvious that you don't know what you are talking about. If you don't even know the most basic facts, how can you form such a solid opinion? It's SC2 fans like this that post in BW threads that really get my blood boiling. "Don't have shit to say then don't say shit." - Pase Rock isn't the more important thing what he is saying?and also that he is supporting BW.really this is why people hate bw elitist.don't be a fucking dick just because he made a small mistake.the message is the more important thing.don't u think? So it's elitist now to hate on stupid post by stupid posters? That's a stupid idea.... Hey man what's your problem? I LOVE BW, I remember when it first came out I used to play the campaign all the time for a day, but it got pretty hard when you can only have 6 in a control group and the stalkers walk really strangely. If you really loved BW, you would let it go. PS: I can't wait to see Bisu micro a collossus People like you and your stupidity make me really question why I come into this forum anymore. In BW, you can have TWELVE units in a control groups, and those units aren't called stalkers, they are called goliaths.
Fixed.
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On May 24 2012 02:26 randoomguy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2012 01:58 Jealous wrote:On May 23 2012 22:29 DeluXe1337 wrote:
I do still feel that BW is a pretty good game. The balance is good and the metagame is pretty solid like going mech in a TvP. If only most of the foreigners like mself didnt care to much on the graphics and had the multitasking to use control groups of onl 8 then i think that BW would still be great. However, SC2 was marketted towards foreigners. Aslong as people like Stork stay on the BW pro scene it will still be a popular game (unless sc2 gets LAN) Control groups are 12. Way to make it completely obvious that you don't know what you are talking about. If you don't even know the most basic facts, how can you form such a solid opinion? It's SC2 fans like this that post in BW threads that really get my blood boiling. "Don't have shit to say then don't say shit." - Pase Rock isn't the more important thing what he is saying?and also that he is supporting BW.really this is why people hate bw elitist.don't be a fucking dick just because he made a small mistake.the message is the more important thing.don't u think?
I explain why the poster I refer to has no idea what he is talking about. You resort to insulting me, painting me as a "fucking dick" as a response to the fact that I pointed out his flawed argument and therefore his faulty position. I don't want misinformed people waving the flag I support. I would rather that informed opinions educate people about the situation (as Stork did) versus misinformed people saying factually incorrect things, thereby creating altercations such as the one we've just engaged in where my correcting and expressing resentment at the factual discrepancy of a person's argument leads to more SC2 groupies defending said wrong person.
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Oh god, romanians everyhwere they are everywhere
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On May 24 2012 03:28 jpak wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2012 03:24 blubbdavid wrote:On May 24 2012 03:09 ProxyKnoxy wrote:On May 24 2012 02:26 shaftofpleasure wrote:On May 24 2012 02:07 SlowBullets wrote:
Yup, the general trend: too many SC2 players saying they "loved" Brood War yet lack the basic knowledge of how the game actually works. Then they say they played it when they were 10 (probably playing Bunker Wars and other UMS all day) without ever following the pro scene.
I'm sure they love the game all right. That's how stupid people work, what did you fucking expect from them? On May 24 2012 02:26 randoomguy wrote:On May 24 2012 01:58 Jealous wrote:On May 23 2012 22:29 DeluXe1337 wrote:
I do still feel that BW is a pretty good game. The balance is good and the metagame is pretty solid like going mech in a TvP. If only most of the foreigners like mself didnt care to much on the graphics and had the multitasking to use control groups of onl 8 then i think that BW would still be great. However, SC2 was marketted towards foreigners. Aslong as people like Stork stay on the BW pro scene it will still be a popular game (unless sc2 gets LAN) Control groups are 12. Way to make it completely obvious that you don't know what you are talking about. If you don't even know the most basic facts, how can you form such a solid opinion? It's SC2 fans like this that post in BW threads that really get my blood boiling. "Don't have shit to say then don't say shit." - Pase Rock isn't the more important thing what he is saying?and also that he is supporting BW.really this is why people hate bw elitist.don't be a fucking dick just because he made a small mistake.the message is the more important thing.don't u think? So it's elitist now to hate on stupid post by stupid posters? That's a stupid idea.... Hey man what's your problem? I LOVE BW, I remember when it first came out I used to play the campaign all the time for a day, but it got pretty hard when you can only have 6 in a control group and the stalkers walk really strangely. If you really loved BW, you would let it go. PS: I can't wait to see Bisu micro a collossus People like you and your stupidity make me really question why I come into this forum anymore. In BW, you can have TWELVE units in a control groups, and those units aren't called stalkers, they are called goliaths. Fixed.
It's hard to see, but there is sarcasm in text.
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EPT
