Both Killer and Brave's names were left out of the official rosters submitted to Kespa on 17th May for the upcoming Proleague season. Their retirements have been confirmed.
It seems that Killer had the desire to retire after last season and after getting knocked out of the ODT, that decision was confirmed. According to Coach Han, there were several reasons behind Killer's decision to retire, including a loss of interest in progaming, a cutback in his salary and concerns over when to enter the military.
Brave left Khan house during the off-season. Although the reason for his retirement was not given, he is expected to choose another career path. According to Fomos, there are fears that there will be further retirements in light of the changes made to the Proleague.
This is pretty bad news. On 5th May, I noticed that Killer posted on facebook that he had returned to Chuncheon, which is his home town. That aroused my suspicions but I still hoped he hadn't taken the decision to retire. Unfortunately, it was true. This makes me quite sad. However, I did not see Brave's retirement coming at all. All the best to both of them!
This will probably be the first of many retirements that we will see in the next coming months, with the pro BW scene ending and all, the good news is that he might be able to stream now.
On May 17 2012 18:02 Reuental wrote: This will probably be the first of many retirements that we will see in the next coming months, with the pro BW scene ending and all, the good news is that he might be able to stream now.
He wouldn't retire to play SC 2 out of Kespa . It makes no sense , since it is the most established E - sports entity in the world. If he quit , because BW is on it's last leg , he has probably quit gaming for good .
Both seemed really talented. Brave somehow won most of his games, not sure about him though. But Killer, if he kept his nerves in check and worked on his strategical thinking, he might have been something.
On May 17 2012 17:59 bgx wrote: Ryo what your hunch tells you. Will there be more retirements?
It seems so.
The sheer amount of gut feelings that you have that seem to actually happen makes me scared to read that you (and people around fomos) suspect more to come =/
At least in the other thread about the new uniforms we can see JD. The lack of info related to him was starting to worry me a lot.
And now the move from by.Hero seems more logic than before.
On May 17 2012 18:02 Reuental wrote: This will probably be the first of many retirements that we will see in the next coming months, with the pro BW scene ending and all, the good news is that he might be able to stream now.
He wouldn't retire to play SC 2 out of Kespa . It makes no sense , since it is the most established E - sports entity in the world. If he quit , because BW is on it's last leg , he has probably quit gaming for good .
He could be talking about doing a HiyA and just streaming games from home. Killer's quite a good Z, and it looked like he just felt completely demotivated; thus being the reason for his retirement.
On May 17 2012 17:59 bgx wrote: Ryo what your hunch tells you. Will there be more retirements?
It seems so.
The sheer amount of gut feelings that you have that seem to actually happen makes me scared to read that you (and people around fomos) suspect more to come =/
At least in the other thread about the new uniforms we can see JD. The lack of info related to him was starting to worry me a lot.
And now the move from by.Hero seems more logic than before.
JD won't retire this season. The team was built around him.
That was unexpected, especially from Brave who was putting up pretty good results. I guess it's not satisfying enough when those decent results still make you the 4th protoss of the team
I don't know what to say about Killer, he's supposed to be the mini-dong with a huge potential, but except that great ZvZ streak in the first half of 2011, he was pretty bad (ie average ZvP and awful ZvT like tons of mediocre zergs). I'll always remember him as the guy BoxeR humiliated with nukes when he made that short come back in 2009. That and the Bambi eyes in Hwaseung House.
what in the hell...... they shouldn't even call it retirement when they are so young (91-92 born) should be called: they quit progaming; most likely because bw is moving to sc2
the thing is with the sc2 switch incoming all the high salaries will go down, the big and medium stars will need to start from scratch to regain a high salary, and that will probably kill the motivation for a lot of pros.
Extremely sad, Killer in particular was an extremely talented guy. Honestly though, it might be for the best, I mean, every player in starcraft will have to retire one day, and the younger might be the better :/
SCToo seems to have some effect on this Otherwise, Killer would just see it as a slump and come out. Come on, he even used to be the best Zerg for a short period of time.
Not that I'm happy to see them leave, but given huge amount of uncertainty that surrounds the SC2 transition, I think it may be best for some players to retire. There's already tremendous amount of talent that saturates the SC2 scene, with questionable amount of monetary potential. Unless you're already a well-known progamer like TBLS, or you're really, really good at SC2, might be best long term to just move on with life.
With BW about to be gone, maybe they saw there is no point playing anymore. Killer had so much potential, so much bad luck that the scene is fading away when he was rising...
Is it me or half of the new threads in BW section is about progamer retiring But Killer was so good !! BW could you just die instead of making me suffer every week T_T Sigh
Aww Killer. I guess I should reminisce here, having seen Killer put up instead of Jaedong for like 4 ACE matches. Such expectations that were never realized...
So sad. I didn't see it coming. Brave had actually a decent season and while Killer didn't really show good results no player from team8 did. I thought it was just a slump on his part and he will eventually bounce back.
I expected more older player retiring rather than relatively young ones. But if they don't enjoy progaming and with SC2 replacing BW I can totally understand it. Still, it makes me sad...
Oh man. Before Oz disbanded, Killer looked on track to contend for the spot of top Zerg. Then T8 turned out to be awful (maybe because of the break in practice). Now I assume he doesn't want to start from scratch in SC2.
They're not stating the actual reason because they're just trying to be polite and do not wish to hamper the future developments of OGN's Proleague for their team members. Starcraft Broodwar progamers did not choose their career solely due to money or fame. If you've been around long enough to know the history of Starcraft progaming, then you'd have remembered how the progamers were all practically dirt poor at some point, relying on ₩230 instant foods as daily meals, and just starting to transition into living in puny teamhouses with cheap computers (which, thankfully, could run SCBW perfectly due to the low requirements: P1 90MHZ, 16MB RAM, 640x480 display) to practice SCBW every day. If they actually wanted money, they'd have chosen a different career path like medicine or engineering.
They chose Starcraft progaming because they loved the game, believed they had the exceptional skills to entertain the audiences with, and wished to make a career out of it. Unfortunately, they were forced to switch to the game-which-cannot-be-named, had several months to try it out, and decided that they could not apply their skills and find the enjoyment in a game that's more user-friendly and based on coin-flip ball battles. Blizzard does not have the same developers, designers and composers that they had back in 1998, which is why they cannot mimic similar gameplay mechanics and graphics from SCBW. It's an entirely different game, future retirements from current progamers are inevitable, and the situation can't be helped.
On May 18 2012 04:16 SonZHi wrote: They're not stating the actual reason because they're just trying to be polite and do not wish to hamper the future developments of OGN's Proleague for their team members. Starcraft Broodwar progamers did not choose their career solely due to money or fame. If you've been around long enough to know the history of Starcraft progaming, then you'd have remembered how the progamers were all practically dirt poor at some point, relying on ₩230 instant foods as daily meals, and just starting to transition into living in puny teamhouses with cheap computers (which, thankfully, could run SCBW perfectly due to the low requirements: P1 90MHZ, 16MB RAM, 640x480 display) to practice SCBW every day. If they actually wanted money, they'd have chosen a different career path like medicine or engineering.
They chose Starcraft progaming because they loved the game, believed they had the exceptional skills to entertain the audiences with, and wished to make a career out of it. Unfortunately, they were forced to switch to the game-which-cannot-be-named, had several months to try it out, and decided that they could not apply their skills and find the enjoyment in a game that's more user-friendly and based on coin-flip ball battles. Blizzard does not have the same developers, designers and composers that they had back in 1998, which is why they cannot mimic similar gameplay mechanics and graphics from SCBW. It's an entirely different game, future retirements from current progamers are inevitable, and the situation can't be helped.
I really respect them from their choice. If I were a BW pro right now, I would retire, and go to university whilst keeping it as a hobby. Would never sell my soul to Blizzard and their new horrible, underhand, half-arsed proleague.
I'm sorry they're in this position, and I hope they find success pursuing their future careers.
Also, SonZHi has his thoughts together. I like him.
They're not stating the actual reason because they're just trying to be polite and do not wish to hamper the future developments of OGN's Proleague for their team members. Starcraft Broodwar progamers did not choose their career solely due to money or fame. If you've been around long enough to know the history of Starcraft progaming, then you'd have remembered how the progamers were all practically dirt poor at some point, relying on ₩230 instant foods as daily meals, and just starting to transition into living in puny teamhouses with cheap computers (which, thankfully, could run SCBW perfectly due to the low requirements: P1 90MHZ, 16MB RAM, 640x480 display) to practice SCBW every day. If they actually wanted money, they'd have chosen a different career path like medicine or engineering.
They chose Starcraft progaming because they loved the game, believed they had the exceptional skills to entertain the audiences with, and wished to make a career out of it. Unfortunately, they were forced to switch to the game-which-cannot-be-named, had several months to try it out, and decided that they could not apply their skills and find the enjoyment in a game that's more user-friendly and based on coin-flip ball battles. Blizzard does not have the same developers, designers and composers that they had back in 1998, which is why they cannot mimic similar gameplay mechanics and graphics from SCBW. It's an entirely different game, future retirements from current progamers are inevitable, and the situation can't be helped.
Even if the players talk about their dislike for it (and some do), Fomos and DES would never print that. Sad but true.
On May 18 2012 04:16 SonZHi wrote: They're not stating the actual reason because they're just trying to be polite and do not wish to hamper the future developments of OGN's Proleague for their team members. Starcraft Broodwar progamers did not choose their career solely due to money or fame. If you've been around long enough to know the history of Starcraft progaming, then you'd have remembered how the progamers were all practically dirt poor at some point, relying on ₩230 instant foods as daily meals, and just starting to transition into living in puny teamhouses with cheap computers (which, thankfully, could run SCBW perfectly due to the low requirements: P1 90MHZ, 16MB RAM, 640x480 display) to practice SCBW every day. If they actually wanted money, they'd have chosen a different career path like medicine or engineering.
They chose Starcraft progaming because they loved the game, believed they had the exceptional skills to entertain the audiences with, and wished to make a career out of it. Unfortunately, they were forced to switch to the game-which-cannot-be-named, had several months to try it out, and decided that they could not apply their skills and find the enjoyment in a game that's more user-friendly and based on coin-flip ball battles. Blizzard does not have the same developers, designers and composers that they had back in 1998, which is why they cannot mimic similar gameplay mechanics and graphics from SCBW. It's an entirely different game, future retirements from current progamers are inevitable, and the situation can't be helped.
while it is true that SC2 is a worse game than BW, we really do not know if that is the reason to retire. AFAIK, these guys haven't done their military services yet, and might be retiring to do it. But your premise still could be true.
On May 17 2012 19:29 insanet wrote: the thing is with the sc2 switch incoming all the high salaries will go down, the big and medium stars will need to start from scratch to regain a high salary, and that will probably kill the motivation for a lot of pros.
Yes, I definitely expect more of this to happen. We have a set of players who are relatively well paid compared to the average SC2 progamer, and many who may or may not turn out to be superior SC2 players, so salaries will likely fall. Especially when the reason for the switch is a lack of sponsors and funding in general. I don't know what Kespa is banking on to increase their revenue - new sponsors due to SC2, or premium international streaming? Especially when you consider that by submitting to Blizzard they can no longer charge OGN a league/broadcast fee. Still, the players who have joined team 8 are probably players who likely wish to continue with SC2, so there are some, at least, who won't be retiring because of the switch.
One thing I'm really surprised is that Kespa is not really using whatever mapmakers it has access to. When you consider Kespa and SC2, Kespa can only bring 3 advantages to the table. The first, is the star power of its players. The second, is the map creation expertise that they have access to, but now don't seem to be using. The third, is the strong coaching and training environments...but this advantage is kind of negated by the late start for their progamers, especially when they are preparing both games for the upcoming months.
I do think that Kespa might face a slow collapse if the switch isn't able to bring in new funding. Teams will want to shed costs, in salary and team upkeep. (I suspect this might be part of the reason why SKT is dropping an adult coach in favor of player-age coaches, but who knows.)
If more retired BW pros consider taking up streaming, like Hiya, perhaps a new, smaller grassroots scene will be reborn. Some low-budget, small-scale tournaments...just maybe I'm dreaming?
On May 17 2012 19:29 insanet wrote: the thing is with the sc2 switch incoming all the high salaries will go down, the big and medium stars will need to start from scratch to regain a high salary, and that will probably kill the motivation for a lot of pros.
Yes, I definitely expect more of this to happen. We have a set of players who are relatively well paid compared to the average SC2 progamer, and many who may or may not turn out to be superior SC2 players, so salaries will likely fall. Especially when the reason for the switch is a lack of sponsors and funding in general. I don't know what Kespa is banking on to increase their revenue - new sponsors due to SC2, or premium international streaming? Especially when you consider that by submitting to Blizzard they can no longer charge OGN a league/broadcast fee. Still, the players who have joined team 8 are probably players who likely wish to continue with SC2, so there are some, at least, who won't be retiring because of the switch.
One thing I'm really surprised is that Kespa is not really using whatever mapmakers it has access to. When you consider Kespa and SC2, Kespa can only bring 3 advantages to the table. The first, is the star power of its players. The second, is the map creation expertise that they have access to, but now don't seem to be using. The third, is the strong coaching and training environments...but this advantage is kind of negated by the late start for their progamers, especially when they are preparing both games for the upcoming months.
I do think that Kespa might face a slow collapse if the switch isn't able to bring in new funding. Teams will want to shed costs, in salary and team upkeep. (I suspect this might be part of the reason why SKT is dropping an adult coach in favor of player-age coaches, but who knows.)
If more retired BW pros consider taking up streaming, like Hiya, perhaps a new, smaller grassroots scene will be reborn. Some low-budget, small-scale tournaments...just maybe I'm dreaming?
No you're not dreaming. I just wish Afreeca streams were more accessible to people with foreign IPs.
Wait what?. No, seriously? Brave was a really strong consistent player for past 2 seasons. Indeed, a steal in FPL with the 2 points he cost. The best value of any player, of all times. Of all time!
On May 18 2012 04:16 SonZHi wrote: They're not stating the actual reason because they're just trying to be polite and do not wish to hamper the future developments of OGN's Proleague for their team members. Starcraft Broodwar progamers did not choose their career solely due to money or fame. If you've been around long enough to know the history of Starcraft progaming, then you'd have remembered how the progamers were all practically dirt poor at some point, relying on ₩230 instant foods as daily meals, and just starting to transition into living in puny teamhouses with cheap computers (which, thankfully, could run SCBW perfectly due to the low requirements: P1 90MHZ, 16MB RAM, 640x480 display) to practice SCBW every day. If they actually wanted money, they'd have chosen a different career path like medicine or engineering.
They chose Starcraft progaming because they loved the game, believed they had the exceptional skills to entertain the audiences with, and wished to make a career out of it. Unfortunately, they were forced to switch to the game-which-cannot-be-named, had several months to try it out, and decided that they could not apply their skills and find the enjoyment in a game that's more user-friendly and based on coin-flip ball battles. Blizzard does not have the same developers, designers and composers that they had back in 1998, which is why they cannot mimic similar gameplay mechanics and graphics from SCBW. It's an entirely different game, future retirements from current progamers are inevitable, and the situation can't be helped.
Look, at amateur level its for fun. At pro level.. very few people even progamers can enjoy gaming if they have to grind at it for 12 hours a day. At that point, it doesnt matter what the actual gameplay mechanics are like, you just purely gotta force yourself to do it for the wins, glory, money, fans. Those are the only things that can motivate to play, not gameplay.
On May 18 2012 04:16 SonZHi wrote: They're not stating the actual reason because they're just trying to be polite and do not wish to hamper the future developments of OGN's Proleague for their team members. Starcraft Broodwar progamers did not choose their career solely due to money or fame. If you've been around long enough to know the history of Starcraft progaming, then you'd have remembered how the progamers were all practically dirt poor at some point, relying on ₩230 instant foods as daily meals, and just starting to transition into living in puny teamhouses with cheap computers (which, thankfully, could run SCBW perfectly due to the low requirements: P1 90MHZ, 16MB RAM, 640x480 display) to practice SCBW every day. If they actually wanted money, they'd have chosen a different career path like medicine or engineering.
They chose Starcraft progaming because they loved the game, believed they had the exceptional skills to entertain the audiences with, and wished to make a career out of it. Unfortunately, they were forced to switch to the game-which-cannot-be-named, had several months to try it out, and decided that they could not apply their skills and find the enjoyment in a game that's more user-friendly and based on coin-flip ball battles. Blizzard does not have the same developers, designers and composers that they had back in 1998, which is why they cannot mimic similar gameplay mechanics and graphics from SCBW. It's an entirely different game, future retirements from current progamers are inevitable, and the situation can't be helped.
Look, at amateur level its for fun. At pro level.. very few people even progamers can enjoy gaming if they have to grind at it for 12 hours a day. At that point, it doesnt matter what the actual gameplay mechanics are like, you just purely gotta force yourself to do it for the wins, glory, money, fans. Those are the only things that can motivate to play, not gameplay.
Hwanni have stated that at the ESTRO days, when he would get up in the morning around 4 o clock am, Action would still be up practicing because the game was so fun.
On May 17 2012 19:29 insanet wrote: the thing is with the sc2 switch incoming all the high salaries will go down, the big and medium stars will need to start from scratch to regain a high salary, and that will probably kill the motivation for a lot of pros.
Yes, I definitely expect more of this to happen. We have a set of players who are relatively well paid compared to the average SC2 progamer, and many who may or may not turn out to be superior SC2 players, so salaries will likely fall. Especially when the reason for the switch is a lack of sponsors and funding in general. I don't know what Kespa is banking on to increase their revenue - new sponsors due to SC2, or premium international streaming? Especially when you consider that by submitting to Blizzard they can no longer charge OGN a league/broadcast fee. Still, the players who have joined team 8 are probably players who likely wish to continue with SC2, so there are some, at least, who won't be retiring because of the switch.
One thing I'm really surprised is that Kespa is not really using whatever mapmakers it has access to. When you consider Kespa and SC2, Kespa can only bring 3 advantages to the table. The first, is the star power of its players. The second, is the map creation expertise that they have access to, but now don't seem to be using. The third, is the strong coaching and training environments...but this advantage is kind of negated by the late start for their progamers, especially when they are preparing both games for the upcoming months.
I do think that Kespa might face a slow collapse if the switch isn't able to bring in new funding. Teams will want to shed costs, in salary and team upkeep. (I suspect this might be part of the reason why SKT is dropping an adult coach in favor of player-age coaches, but who knows.)
If more retired BW pros consider taking up streaming, like Hiya, perhaps a new, smaller grassroots scene will be reborn. Some low-budget, small-scale tournaments...just maybe I'm dreaming?
No you're not dreaming. I just wish Afreeca streams were more accessible to people with foreign IPs.
They can dual stream to twitch through Afreeca. (Minho did this but stopped because English too hard)
On May 17 2012 19:29 insanet wrote: the thing is with the sc2 switch incoming all the high salaries will go down, the big and medium stars will need to start from scratch to regain a high salary, and that will probably kill the motivation for a lot of pros.
Yes, I definitely expect more of this to happen. We have a set of players who are relatively well paid compared to the average SC2 progamer, and many who may or may not turn out to be superior SC2 players, so salaries will likely fall. Especially when the reason for the switch is a lack of sponsors and funding in general. I don't know what Kespa is banking on to increase their revenue - new sponsors due to SC2, or premium international streaming? Especially when you consider that by submitting to Blizzard they can no longer charge OGN a league/broadcast fee. Still, the players who have joined team 8 are probably players who likely wish to continue with SC2, so there are some, at least, who won't be retiring because of the switch.
One thing I'm really surprised is that Kespa is not really using whatever mapmakers it has access to. When you consider Kespa and SC2, Kespa can only bring 3 advantages to the table. The first, is the star power of its players. The second, is the map creation expertise that they have access to, but now don't seem to be using. The third, is the strong coaching and training environments...but this advantage is kind of negated by the late start for their progamers, especially when they are preparing both games for the upcoming months.
I do think that Kespa might face a slow collapse if the switch isn't able to bring in new funding. Teams will want to shed costs, in salary and team upkeep. (I suspect this might be part of the reason why SKT is dropping an adult coach in favor of player-age coaches, but who knows.)
If more retired BW pros consider taking up streaming, like Hiya, perhaps a new, smaller grassroots scene will be reborn. Some low-budget, small-scale tournaments...just maybe I'm dreaming?
No you're not dreaming. I just wish Afreeca streams were more accessible to people with foreign IPs.
They can dual stream to twitch through Afreeca. (Minho did this but stopped because English too hard)
Sad to see them go but I expected something like this to happen. I didn't think it would be these two, however. Hopefully they can transition to a normal life without major difficulties.
I feel like this transition is playing hell with a lot of progamers. I've said it once, I'll say it again, but forcing all pro-gamers to practice two games at the same time is not only bad for game quality, it's stressful, painful, and difficult as kark for the players. It's just not fun, not positive, not nice, period.
This is really a terribly stressful time to be a progamer, and the blame is pretty much squarely on Kespa. I'd be very surprised if these are the only retirements we see.
If you're going to switch to SC2, then switch to SC2 and let the players practice it. Don't make their lives horrible just because you're trying to hedge your karking bets.
I would expect a lot of the marginal players to start retiring en masse probably after the Proleague switch occurs completely. It's probably as good as time as any to retire if you don't have a passion anymore/have other career opportunities you want to pursue.
On May 18 2012 06:33 Apex wrote: Well that sucks. Hope Killer/Brave find success in their post-gaming careers.
The point about potential further retirements scares me too.
What is there to be so scared about tho? Even if they stay there is no real BW. Whether they go on to play SC2 or watch paint dry, you can probably still follow them. The worst has already happened, now it is just the embers of a ruined town.
ok, so maybe if they play sc2 it's easier to follow them since they're still in the limelight... but it won't be the same player you knew or give you the same reasons for following them
Both Killer (back when his hair was still somewhat awesome) and BravE have a strong following of female fans too. I wonder how that will decrease the popularity of the scene in SK.
On May 18 2012 07:27 Xiphos wrote: Both Killer (back when his hair was still somewhat awesome) and BravE have a strong following of female fans too. I wonder how that will decrease the popularity of the scene in SK.
those two bad boys can do whatever the hell they want and their harem will follow :3
Retirements are just a reminder that things have been over for a while. I thought Brave was pretty good, too. And Killer was a super cutey that got screwed in the OSL, to the benefit of the rather unattractive SoO.
I never look at retirements too negatively now, since I have a hunch that this new slew of retirements won't just be a bunch of turncoats going to SC2 (Boxer, July, Nada, ForGG). They're probably quitting "esports" altogether. They'll go to school, serve 2 years, find a woman, have an non-televised career, and so on. I'm glad that they're making the right decision for themselves. It's hard when you see players like JD that openly blurb (Ex: twitter) that they are unsatisfied stay in the game with little optimism.
On May 18 2012 01:30 Lebesgue wrote: I expected more older player retiring rather than relatively young ones. But if they don't enjoy progaming and with SC2 replacing BW I can totally understand it. Still, it makes me sad...
Makes sense, the younger ones can still make a run at college or something before their service. The older ones don't have any other options really.
On May 18 2012 12:07 Abort Retry Fail wrote: Are you kidding me, how could they retire they are practically like rookies!
It seems SC2 is not for everyone after all.
They are decent players but not good enough to be called A-Class but not bad enough to be put into B-teamer. The transition is most exacreble for them. They just got their groove on for BW but right when they really start to enjoy the spotlight, the game is being shifted. Makes one depressing storyline.
On May 18 2012 12:07 Abort Retry Fail wrote: Are you kidding me, how could they retire they are practically like rookies!
It seems SC2 is not for everyone after all.
can you imagine what it feels like to know that they were the next big thing, and then have the rug completely swept underneath them and told that they had to switch to a new game and start over again?
it's easy for those who have not made their name, and perhaps it is easier for those who already have. but to be in between and so close to the latter, that is cruel.
i guess I should of saw brave's retirement incoming when we saw that chain reaction wasn't in the map pool anymore
but seriously it sucks that we won't get to see these guys play anymore. Although really we won't get to see ANY progamer play BW again within a few months . man these are shitty times :\
Best of luck in their lives, hope Killer's retirement and decision to move onto something different turns out well despite such a significant amount of time devoted to something as specialized/unique as BW
anyone would want to retire if you are forced to play a game that you doesn't want to play (Sc2) that's the reason, this guys are progamers because they love Broodwar, and now they are forced to play Sc2,
Yeah, that's true and sort of sad, though most of the pros don't seem too saddened by the switch. The big thing, I think, is the absolutely horrendous dual-game format >:[
On May 18 2012 14:29 Aerisky wrote: Yeah, that's true and sort of sad, though most of the pros don't seem too saddened by the switch. The big thing, I think, is the absolutely horrendous dual-game format >:[
well they kind of have to put on a face right? their careers, and their coaches careers and their managers careers all depend on the fans having enough confidence to trust the switch. no one is going to watch someone playing a game he or tossgirl publicly stated they doesn't enjoy.
if anything the SC2 players are more vocal about how shit the format is compared to their counterparts.
I mean, that makes perfect sense and obviously they'd prefer to stay with BW, but they probably knew that eventually they'd have to switch, I mean there comes a time...still sad to see them go though, yeah.
On May 18 2012 14:29 Aerisky wrote: Yeah, that's true and sort of sad, though most of the pros don't seem too saddened by the switch. The big thing, I think, is the absolutely horrendous dual-game format >:[
well they kind of have to put on a face right? their careers, and their coaches careers and their managers careers all depend on the fans having enough confidence to trust the switch. no one is going to watch someone playing a game he or tossgirl publicly stated they doesn't enjoy.
if anything the SC2 players are more vocal about how shit the format is compared to their counterparts.
Even the pros leaving aren't likely to say anything too bad about the game. While they don't personally like it, I'm sure they think it's worth it to just keep quiet, if only because they don't want to screw over their teammates and coaches who still need to depend on the new game to make a living.
It's a shame they had to retire as they were up-and-coming players, but at least they played for the game that they truly loved and that is very respectful. GL to both
Really sad to see Brave leave, such an interesting player... But it doesn’t really come as a shock; they are forced to stop playing the game they love and have devoted so much time into. I expect a lot more of retirements before the full switch to SC2.
Ah Killer ... I still remember when you were getting nuked by Boxer. You were supposed to be the heir to the Dong but things just didn't work out with Oz's dissolution. I was looking forward to seeing how Killer transitioned to SC2 but its better that he moves on and doesn't continue being a pro for a game I suspect he didn't like.
Damn, Killer never reached his potential for sure, and Brave prehaps even more so. I think any P with a good record in PvZ right from the beginning is worth watching out for imo. Damn Samsung had a really nice lineup of homegrown players starting to emerge before things got fucked up, i think in 1-2 seasons they may well have been top again.
I'm surprised there's not more retirements really, I expect a few more in the near future at least... does anyone think Jaedong for example, would have the motivation to learn a whole new game? He's looked like he's had enough for ages now, after the dual starleagues. It's a shame really, because as a big fan of him i think it's kinda sad how Flash is so much more revered when imo Jaedong at his peak was as good if not better. When did he last lose a series against a P, 2009? Has the second highest vT ELO despite it being the worst matchup statistically through almost the whole history of BW, no other Z comes close to some of the best ZvT he's shown. And vZ he managed to keep 80% for a long period, and still today 72% despite it being a 'coinflip', (even Calm once called it such). All this while everyone is targeting him specifically with abusive special builds.
Remember the ensnares vs Fantasy before queens were cool? dual stack mutalisks? turning an 0-2 final into 3-2, figuring out a counter-strategy on-the-fly.. meanwhile Flash loses a final being 2-0 up and then just repeats the 14CC ecocheese risk to beat Jaedong, knowing there's only early pool that can directly counter it and has no good follow up. 1rax CC vs 12hatch on a balanced map i would take JD any day. He's still 23-22 head-to-head vs Flash in spite of balance, sometimes downright awful maps and abusive TvZ strategies. Not to put down Flash at all. Just think JD has an edge. Bisu will not get as much credit as deserved either i suspect, unfortunately it's entirely his fault for that though.
As much as I like both games it's stupid to incorporate 2 games in a league, Killer and Brave are up and coming hardworking players who don't have the star powers of Flash / Jaedong yet they're forced to practice a new game. Fucking stupid
what the fuck these were some of my most favorite players. More importantly they were part of the rank and file A-team players in proleague. BW got whored over by SC2.
I can just hope that pro BW can recover from this some day. When people realize that SC2 is a mediocre game they may go back to BW, but it is not very likely.
Sad times. My favourite Killer game was the one where he destroyed Baby with guardians in the OSL, picking apart the mech transition timing perfectly. Forever GG Brave and Killer
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/X2MOK.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/nhCaI.jpg)
Killer and 
Brave's names were left out of the official rosters submitted to Kespa on 17th May for the upcoming Proleague season. Their retirements have been confirmed. 
kespa
