EPTTaek-Bang Leessang - Page 3
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smekz
Portugal503 Posts
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icystorage
Jollibee19350 Posts
On May 16 2012 23:17 Kittan wrote: I always thought of Fantasy as the 'Gatekeeper' to S class. Even while he's contesting the #1 spot, he gave of that vibe 'if you want to have a shot at TBLS, you have to go through ME' kind of thing  Note: Fanta is my favourite T, no contest. So blind fanboyism might be present. Fantasy is S class! Leta is the S-Class Test :3 http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=126547 /Leta fanboy <3<3<3 | ||
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ShadeR
Australia7535 Posts
On May 17 2012 07:33 elagrion wrote: For example, how Stork decides to fight Hydra without storms for 5 minutes and get raped... Oh, that a actually a bad game understanding. Your point is off. Do you think it is possible to constantly change PvZ without full understanding of the match-up? All s-class players have it and relay heavily on that. Also, Zero's game-understanding, for instants, is different from Jaedong's, because one of them can get away with queens+defilers micro, while other can get away with 2 muta-stacks micro. They just see things differently. Same with others. Big Stork fan but i have to agree. The blanket statement that "Storks understanding of the game is far superior" and bisu is "multitasking and micro" is wrong. Stork plays a very haphazard PvZ game. He is nigh unbeatable lategame PvZ but during the early midgame he is extremely gungho and has not the intuition that bisu has. Once bisu's scouting sair has seen thr zerg base he is able to glean so much information such that he knows down to the zealot how much he can or cannot get away with. I believe it's very much the same in regards to vT. Neither protoss has been able to achieve complete understanding in both non-mirror matchups. Can wish one day for a Bork Archon. | ||
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Lightwip
United States5497 Posts
On May 17 2012 08:40 smekz wrote: i like how people tend to understate the fact of getting to the finals - "only get silver" and stuff like that lol. A silver is insignificant compared to a gold. Many scrubs have gotten to the finals, only to be rolled. | ||
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smekz
Portugal503 Posts
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LastWish
2015 Posts
Bisu compared to Stork: Stork has(or used to have) supperior builds/timings in PvT and Bisu is the buildorder mastermind in PvZ. Bisu's multitasking, visible mainly vs zerg opponents is unmatchable. Stork's micro is better! Anytime in PvZ when Stork has a balanced zealot+dragoon+templar+-archon composition, watching it march through map and crushing all zerg enemies... It's beautiful. About PvP.. um I don't know I guess it's somewhat equal. | ||
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wassbix
Canada499 Posts
On May 17 2012 09:40 Lightwip wrote: A silver is insignificant compared to a gold. Many scrubs have gotten to the finals, only to be rolled. Kwanrolled even! | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
On May 17 2012 09:40 Lightwip wrote: A silver is insignificant compared to a gold. Many scrubs have gotten to the finals, only to be rolled. Stork's number of silvers (before he got a gold) was Yellow class, and I don't think anyone would think of Yellow as a scrub. When you get to the finals that many times it means it is no coincidence or lucky streak. You could easily say that just one gold doesn't prove much, for example Casy's OSL run (actually he was an amazingly brilliant player in at least TvZ, it's just that he is pretty much worse than Light in terms of TvP [no really, like half as good as light as tvp]). But Stork getting in that many finals over this long a period of time, plus his overall record vs Flash Bisu Dong, is enough to put him with them. If you were to measure all four in terms of strength and overall career achievement it probably goes Flash Dong Bisu (only because of Savior) Stork, but they are not very far seperated. Just like Boxer Nada Yellow and Reach were not that far separated, which if you want consistency is the real measure here. Stork is basically analogous to Yellow in terms of qualification. | ||
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empty.bottle
685 Posts
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icystorage
Jollibee19350 Posts
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Crisium
United States1618 Posts
He's been in more OSL+MSL finals than any other Protoss ever (and more than Fantasy). and is the definition of OSL consistency (16 OSL Ro16 appearances, 3 more than any other player ever). As has been said, he does really well against the other TBLS (perhaps not in the finals, but certainly in Proleague where he has a winning percentage against them all). Stork is undoubtedly the 4th most successful player since the end of the Savior era, and thus that is why he gets to be TBLS. Only 3 players have won multiple OSL+MSL siince then, and those are the other TBLS. And of the Silver Surfers with one gold, Stork has more finals appearance than them (JB and Fanta). I even think Stork's inconsistanly is slightly exaggerared, as he's always in the OSL to compensate for any PL shortcomings, and even then his proleague is almost always really good (like this year, for example). Fantasy has been far more inconsistant imo. Although he's only shortly behind Stork in success, it's important to keep in mind he is behind.in pretty much every category overall. Then again, Stork just plays so good. He's top 4 just from subjectively watching him play. That's the real reason! | ||
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revy
United States1524 Posts
On May 17 2012 02:03 nadafanboy42 wrote: I think you really need to understand the history of the term TBLS to understand it. Someone who speaks Korean would know it in more detail, but from what I remember: The term Taek-Bang was coined in 2007. Stork was already considered a strong (perhaps the strongest) Protoss player, after the 3.3 revolution Bisu quickly became the undisputed best player in the scene. The two were considered rivals for the Protoss throne and said 'rivalry' peaked in the GomTV-S2 MSL where they fought against each other in the finals. The term Leessang was coined in 2008. After going 5-5 against each other in games spanning three leagues, with both winning the respective leagues where they advanced (Jaedong won that MSL, Flash that OSL and GomTV Invitational), Flash and Jaedong went head to head fighting for best player in the world. Flash being ahead most of the time until Gom-Classic S1 Finals where Jaedong beat Flash 3-0. At this time though Stork was doing a lot better then Bisu when it came to challenging Jaedong/Flash. Stork was in the finals against both Jaedong and Flash (x2). At some point, I'm not sure when but I'm guessing it was during the Golden Age of Protoss in late 2008, when both Stork and Bisu won a championship (OSL and MSL respectively), the two terms were combined into TaekBangLeessang. I agree that with the benefit of hindsight, if we were to now select the three best players of the post-Savior era, Stork would not be considered in the running, and the position of 4th best would be heavily contested by Fantasy/Effort or even others. However at the time the terms were coined, Stork was clearly the 4th best player of the day, still considered very close in skill to Bisu/Jaedong/Flash, and it was not at all clear Stork would be stuck to one gold and a personel silver-cartel. I hope that helps explain it, though this is of course just my version of things as I remembered them happening at the time. To add to your excellent post: I remember during the "golden age of toss" in several interviews people referred to it as the Taek-Bang era. The leessang was then appended to it after the fact. | ||
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RezChi
Canada2368 Posts
Bisu-single forever, looks like a woman. Bisu vs Flash is 11-16 Bisu vs Jaedong is 12-8 and Bisu vs Stork is 10-15 Stork vs Flash 13-14 Stork vs Jaedong is 14-13 and Stork vs Bisu is 15-10 Stork vs other TBLS is 2-1 while Bisu is 1-2 | ||
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
The only player who can rival Stork for that "#4 post-Savior" slot is Fantasy. I think Fantasy has done more in less time considering he didn't hit the big time until mid 2008 or so, whereas Stork was already earning recognition back in 2004-2005, but Stork still has 1 more finals appearance, has had a more significant rivalry than any of Fantasy's and can claim an overall larger metagame influence. So the short answer is that Fantasy still ranks lower "overall." If we're looking at current performance, of course Fantasy is actually my choice for #2 in the world for the past 1 - 1.5 years, but current performance should not be confused with overall achievement. Noteworthy also is that Stork is right now the top Protoss. Don't see why anyone would put Effort or anybody else in the same category. Love Effort, but he just hasn't done as much. | ||
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Sinensis
United States2513 Posts
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baubo
China3370 Posts
On May 17 2012 02:03 nadafanboy42 wrote: I agree that with the benefit of hindsight, if we were to now select the three best players of the post-Savior era, Stork would not be considered in the running, and the position of 4th best would be heavily contested by Fantasy/Effort or even others. However at the time the terms were coined, Stork was clearly the 4th best player of the day, still considered very close in skill to Bisu/Jaedong/Flash, and it was not at all clear Stork would be stuck to one gold and a personel silver-cartel. I don't see how one can say this objectively. | ||
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0neder
United States3733 Posts
On May 16 2012 22:41 cybertopo wrote: So I was just reading the interview ( here ) TL did to the MLG guys and they talk, and I quote: "(...) and to learn from the Flash's, Bisus and Storks of the world". So, I think everyone in this forum knows about the TBLS (Taek-Bang Leessang, which refers to Flash, Jaedong, Stork and Bisu), seeing this I always wondered why Stork belonged to this group. I mean, he is a great player, but we are putting him in the same category as people who have won 3 individual titles at least (in before BISU NO OSL LOL). So, why is this? I thought that maybe they needed a Protoss and since Bisu isn't quite at the same level as Flash and Jaedong, they decided to add another P to the mix. Or maybe is it because Flash and Jaedong never found a rival in their same race as fierce as Storku? Enlighten me. P.S.: It seems as this matter would have been discussed before, but I didn't find anything, so I hope I didn't fuck up. Stork is the only other Protoss that can go toe to toe with Flash and Jaedong, and usually has awesome games and even awesome cheeses. Plus he was that good at BW, a much harder game, while playing WoW and cell phone games lol. Imagine how good he'd be practicing SC2 part time! | ||
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hai2u
688 Posts
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Shana
Indonesia1814 Posts
That and Hydra Bust destroying his PvZ. | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
On May 16 2012 23:40 OpticalShot wrote: IIRC same girl, they're back together. He did play WoW (he admitted it) but "not that much" lol. Stork has been around 8 years in the professional scene and he's still kickin' it strong as a top-notch, respected, team-ace player. That's why he's so respected. Generally those veterans are bench-warmers before they make take a bow and retire. I also read somewhere or someone told me that amongst progamers, Stork is still considered "the absolute best" when it comes to large army management and control vs. Terran. With his low APM, he still manages to do extremely clean and efficient army management, most of the time. Anyway, I'm a big Stork fanboy and yeah Stork <3 I've always heard that's how he earned his Commander nick. It seems pretty spot on though he's been kinda silly this season (Song Blue-Goo). I did seem him a few years back get out multi-tasked by Jaedong's raw APM which was pretty ridiculous. Jaedong attacked at 2 locations and was microing both halves of his army and Stork just couldn't. Was nuts. He could be the great again if he spent a little more effort I feel. He can be pretty ballsy but doesn't seem to have the motivation for it. Remember all those suicide speed shuttles from his gold final? | ||
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