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Taek-Bang Leessang - Page 2

Forum Index > BW General
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nadafanboy42
Profile Joined August 2009
Netherlands209 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-16 17:07:51
May 16 2012 17:03 GMT
#21
I think you really need to understand the history of the term TBLS to understand it. Someone who speaks Korean would know it in more detail, but from what I remember:

The term Taek-Bang was coined in 2007. Stork was already considered a strong (perhaps the strongest) Protoss player, after the 3.3 revolution Bisu quickly became the undisputed best player in the scene. The two were considered rivals for the Protoss throne and said 'rivalry' peaked in the GomTV-S2 MSL where they fought against each other in the finals.

The term Leessang was coined in 2008. After going 5-5 against each other in games spanning three leagues, with both winning the respective leagues where they advanced (Jaedong won that MSL, Flash that OSL and GomTV Invitational), Flash and Jaedong went head to head fighting for best player in the world. Flash being ahead most of the time until Gom-Classic S1 Finals where Jaedong beat Flash 3-0.
At this time though Stork was doing a lot better then Bisu when it came to challenging Jaedong/Flash. Stork was in the finals against both Jaedong and Flash (x2).

At some point, I'm not sure when but I'm guessing it was during the Golden Age of Protoss in late 2008, when both Stork and Bisu won a championship (OSL and MSL respectively), the two terms were combined into TaekBangLeessang.

I agree that with the benefit of hindsight, if we were to now select the three best players of the post-Savior era, Stork would not be considered in the running, and the position of 4th best would be heavily contested by Fantasy/Effort or even others. However at the time the terms were coined, Stork was clearly the 4th best player of the day, still considered very close in skill to Bisu/Jaedong/Flash, and it was not at all clear Stork would be stuck to one gold and a personel silver-cartel.

I hope that helps explain it, though this is of course just my version of things as I remembered them happening at the time.
NaDa/Jaedong/Liquid-Fanboy
E28
Profile Joined May 2011
34 Posts
May 16 2012 17:07 GMT
#22
It's more simply the number of medals and win rate. It is about consistent performance and the play style that gives you the impression that this player belongs at the top.

How many Starcraft players who debuted 8 years ago and still on par with the best of the best?
Blue and Gold forever, and may tomorrow be a wonderful day for you.
endy
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Switzerland8970 Posts
May 16 2012 17:35 GMT
#23
Stork has a great record against Bisu/JD/Flash, got to a lot of OSL Ro8+, and has been very consistent for a super long time.
Actually I think he's close to break NaDa's longest stay in the KeSPA top 30.
ॐ
Archers_bane
Profile Joined February 2011
United States1338 Posts
May 16 2012 18:15 GMT
#24
Stork has always been a consistent player, although he has had his losing streaks against vZ for a bit (remember when he got cheesed like 2-3x in a row? poor Stork)

I enjoy his PvT alot too
Starcraft's BW glory days have passed, RIP Jaedong's dominance - 2013...EDIT 2017: WE BACK BOYS
HowardRoark
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
1146 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-16 20:27:31
May 16 2012 20:23 GMT
#25
I think it is because he is a likeable player and plays Protoss like no-one else? Also, with P being the "underdog", he has shown the most remarkable results.
"It is really good to get the double observatory if you want to get the speed and sight range for the observer simultaneously. It's a little bit of an advanced tactic, and by advanced, I mean really fucking bad."
Xiphos
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada7507 Posts
May 16 2012 20:36 GMT
#26
Because right after the fall of the Heavenly Kings, Stork/JD/Bisu/Flash have shown the best potential out of the remaining players. The term I believe was coined in the year of 2008. When Flash have beaten Stork in the OSL final, Jaedong beaten Stork in the OSL, Bisu beating Stork in the MSL. Because of the winnings from all those 3 players and the fact that Stork made it very far in the leagues, the reason is pretty rhetoric as for why was he inducted together with the aforementioned players.
2014 - ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ Raise your bows brood warriors! ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ
rabidch
Profile Joined January 2010
United States20289 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-16 20:48:11
May 16 2012 20:38 GMT
#27
On May 16 2012 22:55 figq wrote:
Consider what would happen if Stork's OSL silvers were golds (disregarding even other leagues):
Stork: 4 titles
Flash: 2
Jaedong: 2
(Bisu: 0 )

Impressed?

Basically, if not for Flash, Jaedong would have been the greatest player. If not for Flash and Jaedong, Stork would have been the greatest. If not for the three of them... Fantasy would still be greater than Bisu, hahaha.

well you have to consider the others silvers too, even though Stork would still be at 4, jaedong at 4, and flash would have 4. fantasy would also have 4 , july 5, nada 4

edit:
im adding up golds+silvers
LiquidDota StaffOnly a true king can play the King.
bjornkavist
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada1235 Posts
May 16 2012 20:40 GMT
#28
Stork is the most consistent protoss, he also has the most wins of all time of any protoss player, and he's won an Osl
https://soundcloud.com/bbols
figq
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
12519 Posts
May 16 2012 21:10 GMT
#29
On May 17 2012 05:38 rabidch wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 16 2012 22:55 figq wrote:
Consider what would happen if Stork's OSL silvers were golds (disregarding even other leagues):
Stork: 4 titles
Flash: 2
Jaedong: 2
(Bisu: 0 )

Impressed?

Basically, if not for Flash, Jaedong would have been the greatest player. If not for Flash and Jaedong, Stork would have been the greatest. If not for the three of them... Fantasy would still be greater than Bisu, hahaha.

well you have to consider the others silvers too, even though Stork would still be at 4, jaedong at 4, and flash would have 4. fantasy would also have 4 , july 5, nada 4

edit:
im adding up golds+silvers
Nono, my point is - if Stork just won these 3 OSL finals that he lost, nothing else. This situation - in which both Flash and Jaedong are only half as successful as Stork is only 3 matches away from being true.
If you stand next to my head, you can hear the ocean. - Day[9]
ppshchik
Profile Joined September 2010
United States862 Posts
May 16 2012 21:58 GMT
#30
Bisu has sick micro and multitasking, but in terms of understanding of the game Stork is far superior. How Stork manages to execute and get away with his abusive PvT builds is simply astonishing.

Bisu > Stork in PvP and PvZ
Stork >>> Bisu in PvT

That's how I see.
Legends never die... they end up working in McDonalds.
Wala.Revolution
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
7584 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-16 22:01:11
May 16 2012 22:01 GMT
#31
Every time I see Stork's stats, I am impressed.
Stuck.
FlaShFTW
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States10357 Posts
May 16 2012 22:02 GMT
#32
On May 16 2012 23:55 Unnamezz wrote:
Stork -> His PvT is good.

Bisu -> His PvZ is good.


My understanding betwen these 2 Protoss.

Actually, Bisu's vT is pretty good. He has a 62.44% win rate to Stork's 66.37%. Not that far if you consider it.

But back in the day, Bisu and Stork were trading blows for best PvP. Currently, Stork is on a 6 game winning streak vs Bisu, and holds their life-time games 15-9.
Writer#1 KT and FlaSh Fanboy || Woo Jung Ho Never Forget || Teamliquid Political Decision Desk
TL+ Member
JiYan
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States3668 Posts
May 16 2012 22:06 GMT
#33
stork's my favorite brood war player, its kind of sad that hes so underrated
Vasoline73
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States7848 Posts
May 16 2012 22:11 GMT
#34
On May 17 2012 07:01 Wala.Revolution wrote:
Every time I see Stork's stats, I am impressed.

Truth. I don't always give Stork a lot of credit, (alot of it is because his team misuses him as an ace imo, another part of it is that I don't believe he has Flash's or JD's fighting spirit) but Stork definitely deserves respect. Some of my favorite and most educational starcraft watching experiences were with him in the booth.
SlayerS_BunkiE
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Canada1715 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-16 22:25:40
May 16 2012 22:25 GMT
#35
imba bad joke, i don't want to be banned so i'll put it in spolier
+ Show Spoiler +
it's because both terran and zergs are imba so they need 2 protosses... just kidding... pls. don't ban me!


on a serious note, it's because bisu is PvZ god but he's bad vT but stork is the best protoss vT but he's bad vZ. if you merge the two, you get an archon and there goes your best protoss in the merging of taekbang!

i love tbls, btw.
iloveby.SlayerS_BunkiE[Shield]
O_ovPvo_O-SNAKE
Profile Joined April 2012
United States11 Posts
May 16 2012 22:25 GMT
#36

They are all S class though I think Bisu-Jeadong-Flash are best .

Crazy amp and skill to back that up.

though Jeadong is my fav. His games are so brutal to watch. I can say no one wins like Jeadong.
"Let the Wookie win"
ppshchik
Profile Joined September 2010
United States862 Posts
May 16 2012 22:32 GMT
#37
On May 17 2012 07:25 O_ovPvo_O-SNAKE wrote:

They are all S class though I think Bisu-Jeadong-Flash are best .

Crazy amp and skill to back that up.

though Jeadong is my fav. His games are so brutal to watch. I can say no one wins like Jeadong.


Agreed, Savior kills his opponents in an elegant way, whilst Jaedong kills his opponents in a brutal way.
Legends never die... they end up working in McDonalds.
elagrion
Profile Joined April 2010
Ukraine422 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-16 22:39:44
May 16 2012 22:33 GMT
#38
On May 17 2012 06:58 ppshchik wrote:
Bisu has sick micro and multitasking, but in terms of understanding of the game Stork is far superior.

For example, how Stork decides to fight Hydra without storms for 5 minutes and get raped... Oh, that a actually a bad game understanding.

Your point is off. Do you think it is possible to constantly change PvZ without full understanding of the match-up?
All s-class players have it and relay heavily on that.

Also, Zero's game-understanding, for instants, is different from Jaedong's, because one of them can get away with queens+defilers micro, while other can get away with 2 muta-stacks micro. They just see things differently. Same with others.
Everything is a remix.
Lightwip
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5497 Posts
May 16 2012 23:06 GMT
#39
Because Stork was promising at some point.
It's true he never finally delivered, but it's inconsequential since TBLS the designation is now around.
If you are not Bisu, chances are I hate you.
Thorin
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
601 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-16 23:30:52
May 16 2012 23:21 GMT
#40
On May 17 2012 07:02 FlaShFTW wrote:
But back in the day, Bisu and Stork were trading blows for best PvP. Currently, Stork is on a 6 game winning streak vs Bisu, and holds their life-time games 15-9.


TLPD doesn't have the results in the database but Bisu has beaten Stork in a number of IEF tournaments over the years, usually in finals. With that said Stork's BoX wins over Bisu have come at really costly times for Bisu, with the exception of that MSL final. Like in the EVER2007 OSL semi-final, a win there puts Bisu vs. the OSL rookie Jaedong in the final. In more recent times that Ro16 loss for Bisu meant the Revolutionist missed out on an all-Zerg run to another MSL title.

On May 16 2012 23:55 Unnamezz wrote:
Stork -> His PvT is good.

Bisu -> His PvZ is good.


My understanding betwen these 2 Protoss.


Bisu has a 71.35% lifetime PvZ winrate, a matchup which is typically favoured for the Zerg. That's quite a lot more than just "good". To put that in context: Terran is typically favoured over Zerg yet Flash's lifetime TvZ winrate is "only" 0.55% higher.
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