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On April 21 2012 06:34 thopol wrote:
Well it looks like everyone is happy enough with this whole shitshow. Of course SKT1 is the most enthusiastic about being terrible to everything we all love (according to the set of notes). It's really a damn shame that STX bought so wholeheartedly into undermining professional BW that they practiced whatever whatever during the real season.
I feel truly betrayed by the team that I always pulled for with all my heart. It's unbelievable that they decided to turn their STARCRAFT team into a whatever whatever team while the season was happening.
I watched all of those games thinking that my team was trying their best to win. It's fucking tragic that they weren't.
For every PL playoffs it was always this story where STX had made deep runs but had never won. To think that they decided, on the last PL, to fucking abandon the sport, to abandon the fans... I can't really handle that.
Fuck all of these money-grubbing assholes. I just want ESPORTS. Please give it back to me.
You call them money-grubbing assholes, but you have to face the truth. Would you rather have the team die? or move on? I have no clue how you can view their actions as money-grubbing; I view it more as trying to survive.
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On April 21 2012 06:43 FlaShFTW wrote:
so flash basically winged everything? damn. hes that good huh?
That is actually how I play SC2, and I think that it is basically how zergs in SC2 play. The game isn't as scientific as BW yet so you can deal with almost anything just by winging it.
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On April 21 2012 06:34 thopol wrote:
Well it looks like everyone is happy enough with this whole shitshow. Of course SKT1 is the most enthusiastic about being terrible to everything we all love (according to the set of notes). It's really a damn shame that STX bought so wholeheartedly into undermining professional BW that they practiced whatever whatever during the real season.
I feel truly betrayed by the team that I always pulled for with all my heart. It's unbelievable that they decided to turn their STARCRAFT team into a whatever whatever team while the season was happening.
I watched all of those games thinking that my team was trying their best to win. It's fucking tragic that they weren't.
For every PL playoffs it was always this story where STX had made deep runs but had never won. To think that they decided, on the last PL, to fucking abandon the sport, to abandon the fans... I can't really handle that.
Fuck all of these money-grubbing assholes. I just want ESPORTS. Please give it back to me.
Looks like the prestigious STX fanbase on TL just got a lot tinier.
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On April 21 2012 06:51 Namu wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 06:34 thopol wrote:
Well it looks like everyone is happy enough with this whole shitshow. Of course SKT1 is the most enthusiastic about being terrible to everything we all love (according to the set of notes). It's really a damn shame that STX bought so wholeheartedly into undermining professional BW that they practiced whatever whatever during the real season.
I feel truly betrayed by the team that I always pulled for with all my heart. It's unbelievable that they decided to turn their STARCRAFT team into a whatever whatever team while the season was happening.
I watched all of those games thinking that my team was trying their best to win. It's fucking tragic that they weren't.
For every PL playoffs it was always this story where STX had made deep runs but had never won. To think that they decided, on the last PL, to fucking abandon the sport, to abandon the fans... I can't really handle that.
Fuck all of these money-grubbing assholes. I just want ESPORTS. Please give it back to me. You call them money-grubbing assholes, but you have to face the truth. Would you rather have the team die? or move on? I have no clue how you can view their actions as money-grubbing; I view it more as trying to survive.
If your favorite [insert whatever non-e-sport here team] transitioned into playing [insert sport that the team doesn't play] while that team was playing in their original [whatever non-e-sport] league, how would you feel about it.
Sure, money-grubbing assholes is probably a bit off the mark, but the feeling certainly isn't off the mark in the general way I feel towards them. I don't care whether they did it for survival or not. If they call themselves a TEAM in a SPORT, they have to be professional about it.
When it comes down to it, people rooted for this team. They weren't even fucking trying to win. That is so fucked up.
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On April 21 2012 06:58 thopol wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 06:51 Namu wrote:On April 21 2012 06:34 thopol wrote:
Well it looks like everyone is happy enough with this whole shitshow. Of course SKT1 is the most enthusiastic about being terrible to everything we all love (according to the set of notes). It's really a damn shame that STX bought so wholeheartedly into undermining professional BW that they practiced whatever whatever during the real season.
I feel truly betrayed by the team that I always pulled for with all my heart. It's unbelievable that they decided to turn their STARCRAFT team into a whatever whatever team while the season was happening.
I watched all of those games thinking that my team was trying their best to win. It's fucking tragic that they weren't.
For every PL playoffs it was always this story where STX had made deep runs but had never won. To think that they decided, on the last PL, to fucking abandon the sport, to abandon the fans... I can't really handle that.
Fuck all of these money-grubbing assholes. I just want ESPORTS. Please give it back to me. You call them money-grubbing assholes, but you have to face the truth. Would you rather have the team die? or move on? I have no clue how you can view their actions as money-grubbing; I view it more as trying to survive. If your favorite [insert whatever non-e-sport here team] transitioned into playing [insert sport that the team doesn't play] while that team was playing in their original [whatever non-e-sport] league, how would you feel about it. Sure, money-grubbing assholes is probably a bit off the mark, but the feeling certainly isn't off the mark in the general way I feel towards them. I don't care whether they did it for survival or not. If they call themselves a TEAM in a SPORT, they have to be professional about it. When it comes down to it, people rooted for this team. They weren't even fucking trying to win. That is so fucked up.
You're angry, ignorant and a bitch all at once.
User was warned for this post
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On April 21 2012 06:49 Namu wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 06:14 Stratos wrote:On April 21 2012 06:05 YosHGo wrote:On April 20 2012 22:34 blubbdavid wrote:On April 20 2012 22:32 Sawamura wrote:On April 20 2012 22:28 blubbdavid wrote:
That's it for me. Oh come on, it's for e-sports man we should support them bw pro's going to sc2 as you can see even the coaches were having a blast talking about sc2 . I mean I don't mind seeing history repeat itself when this guy dominate the scene and the foreign scene will know where their standing is again after all . Korean dominance sound pretty sweet in my opinion. k, but only if I get monthly packages of Redbull so that I stay awake during the games. A message for all BWers that dont seem to get it - SC2 IS VANILLA! SC2 IS VANILLA! SC2 IS VANILLA! I know you have the right to be pissed but i cannot not to respond to such terrible statement that sc2 is boring. How can you compare a game with datadisc and one without it? So are there going to be new graphics, brand new AI and new user interface besides new units and spells in the expansion? Because those are my main concerns, and I know for a fact that some of us feel the same way. And even if that would be the case and all these problems were solved; it's irrelevant to the situation we're facing - we like our game but it's being pushed out ALREADY be the SC2 VANILLA SC2 VANILLA SC2 VANILLA (yep, got it). So why should we care if it's VANILLA or CHOCOLATE? It's just a game we don't like that's effectively killing a game we do like. Your argument hardly makes any sense. If anything, it supports the opinion of many of us - that it shouldn't be happening in the first place. But it is, and so we mad!  I think some people have a great misconception. SC2 is not killing SC:BW. The interview says that they can't have a proper league with sc:bw (not right now, but soon enough it'll become like that). They are having immense difficulties gaining sponsors, and thus have financial issues maintaining a pure SC:BW league/teams. This SC2 pushing out sc:bw/killing it is nonsense. Basically, SC:BW is dying, and these coaches aren't denying that.
You can claim that but I can also claim that if there was no SC2 in the first place, BW could be in a rough spot but it could get over it instead of being replaced by SC2. Which one is true I don't know and I doubt you do, either, although you claim to.
I don't really see how this is relevant to the discussion we were having though. Someone was arguing that the game will have an expansion so it's terrible to say it's boring... I think it's perfectly okay to say something like that even if it has 5 expansions coming out.
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SKT Coach Park: For the loyal SC1 fans, I understand the mixed format looks like a complete foolish gimmick. I hope you understand that it was the best we could do under the current circumstances. I encourage you to have high hopes for the upcoming season. I’m confident that Bisu and Fantasy will be global leaders in SC2, so look out for us!
I think we all just need to calm down and give them a chance, honestly the game itself may not be up to your/ours or whoevers standards but the fact is that they're obviously trying their best to please the fans KNOWING that some of us will be disappointed. I think that alone allows me to hope for a success that might not have been present in the recent leagues, and I hope that'd be true for others as well.
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Well.
This is unexpected. And sad. And a lot of other things.
I was never as hardcore a fan of BW as most of you, but my Stork/KHAN love is eternal, and watching Jangbi and Stork win their OSLs were some of my best and happiest memories concerning any sport, period--so I find it very sad that it's all coming to an end. The BW community has been very good to me, and I've enjoyed few things more than LRing with you all while watching some amazing games and cracking jokes about the players and personalities (poor Kwanro!). TSL2 Nony vs Idra? Stork vs Best in the Incruit 2008 OSL? Stork winning his first OSL? Jangbi's horrific fall and rise to glory? Good memories, all of them. God bless you all.
I honestly don't know exactly what this means for the future. If I'm feeling optimistic, I would hope that Kespa's involvement with SC2 could help to iron out the remaining issues with SC2 (through 6m maps, alterations to the game, cooperation with Blizzard, etc) and make it truly worthy to be THE flagship ESPORTS title, with BW still surviving in Korea and eventually having its own parallel set of tournaments once the rush from SC2 subsides, and all the BW pros and teams continuing to play in either game. If I'm feeling pessimistic, then most of the BW pros will quit, Kespa will take over the Korean SC2 scene and not change a darn thing, and BW will simply die. I don't know...I guess right now I'm feeling more optimistic than pessimistic.
It's pretty clear why this is happening, though, and this makes it even more clear: sponsorships and fans. BW in Korea has a lot of fans, but the list of big corporations willing to sponsor tournaments for an effectively "Korean-only" game is getting smaller and smaller, and the BW foreign fans, after years and years of being ignored, have almost entirely moved on to SC2. Kespa and the teams want foreign fans and sponsorships, and they want to become part of the global scene SC2 has created. Can you, on a purely business level, fault them?
I love SC2. It's not to BW level ESPORT title yet, but then, how could it be? BW is, and always will be, a legend. It's a difficult, or rather, impossible task to succeed a legend, but with the community that SC2 has, I think it's long-term prospects are good. The community is waking up and realizing that SC2 does not have to be what Blizzard gives them, but what they can make of it. With Kespa involved, I have high hopes for that li'l game. I'm fond of it, I won't deny.
But BW will always, always be my first ESPORTS love, and Stork and KHAN will always be my player and my team, until long after Stork's collecting a salary coaching a LoL team and playing WoW in his spare time and KHAN is shut down after a scandal involving a returned FBH's scandalous and indecent ceremonies in the SC2 finals vs Nestea.
BW is dead! Long live BW...
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11) The coaches REALLY WANTED to approach the foreign scene apparently. Like no other. But because of the strong idea that 'BW is ours and proleague is ours', the coaches couldn't approach the foreign scene. They see that the foreign community is there with the comments, team liquid, and youtube videos, but they just couldn't do anything about it. (tone of regret does exist here) They were happy that the previosu finals was done globally, but still sad that it's so late.
T_T
The things that maybe could have been.
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On April 21 2012 07:13 L_Master wrote:Show nested quote +11) The coaches REALLY WANTED to approach the foreign scene apparently. Like no other. But because of the strong idea that 'BW is ours and proleague is ours', the coaches couldn't approach the foreign scene. They see that the foreign community is there with the comments, team liquid, and youtube videos, but they just couldn't do anything about it. (tone of regret does exist here) They were happy that the previosu finals was done globally, but still sad that it's so late. T_T The things that maybe could have been.
Is this because of KeSPA?
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Only a miracle can save BW now. I'll be hoping for a miracle then.
On April 21 2012 05:35 ninini wrote:
It's really sad how it was the foreign SC2 scene and the greed of korean businessmen that killed off BW.
This is what pains me most.
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On April 21 2012 07:16 SCnai wrote:Only a miracle can save BW now. I'll be hoping for a miracle then. Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 05:35 ninini wrote:
It's really sad how it was the foreign SC2 scene and the greed of korean businessmen that killed off BW. This is what pains me most.
To be fair that kinda greed was one of the main ingredients of pro broodwar!
Ah well w/e they're just trying to get by now I guess... can't really hate them for that... maybe I'll give sc2 another try...been a while since I watched sc2. Last match being MC vs Thorzain game. Honestly though if TBLS really fails to perform then sc2 can go to hell, talent like that should be rewarded.
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On April 21 2012 07:16 SCnai wrote:Only a miracle can save BW now. I'll be hoping for a miracle then. Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 05:35 ninini wrote:
It's really sad how it was the foreign SC2 scene and the greed of korean businessmen that killed off BW. This is what pains me most.
Explain me, how did the foreign SC2 scene kill BW.
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I watch more SC2 than BW, but I really feel that BW pros shouldn't switch until at least HotS, maybe even LotV. There are too many issues with WoL for it to be the premier competitive RTS.
Last match being MC vs Thorzain game.
From TSL3? That would be an average/mediocre game by 2012 standards.
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On April 21 2012 07:32 Cassel_Castle wrote:I watch more SC2 than BW, but I really feel that BW pros shouldn't switch until at least HotS, maybe even LotV. There are too many issues with WoL for it to be the premier competitive RTS. From TSL3? That would be an average/mediocre game by 2012 standards.
Yea. You have no idea how much I disliked I had for sc2+ its fans after watching that game xD (Time watching sc2 is time not watching BW). I'll give it one more chance when TBLS plays.
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SC2 didn't cause BWs decline. It may have played a minor role in being something for KeSPA to compete with but there were three key elements that helped BW's decline:
1. Ma Jae-Yoon. His little scheme scared away a lot of big named sponsors. He still doesn't care that much about it either.
2. KeSPA's failure to address Blizzard's IP rights in an appropriate manner. Scared away even more sponsors and gave KeSPA a much more negative rep.
3. This is the big one: KeSPA's failure to take advantage of the foreign audience sooner. GomTV recognized the foreign audience for Brood War a long time ago with the TG Sambo Intel Classic. KeSPA wanted some stupid fee which initiated point 2 above and pretty much took a shit on any hope for BW's expansion. 2007 was the golden year for KeSPA to expand into the foreign market. It's 2011/12 and we finally get an official YouTube service and it was far too late to do that.
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On April 21 2012 07:40 Neo7 wrote:
SC2 didn't cause BWs decline. It may have played a minor role in being something for KeSPA to compete with but there were three key elements that helped BW's decline:
1. Ma Jae-Yoon. His little scheme scared away a lot of big named sponsors. He still doesn't care that much about it either.
2. KeSPA's failure to address Blizzard's IP rights in an appropriate manner. Scared away even more sponsors and gave KeSPA a much more negative rep.
3. This is the big one: KeSPA's failure to take advantage of the foreign audience sooner. GomTV recognized the foreign audience for Brood War a long time ago with the TG Sambo Intel Classic. KeSPA wanted some stupid fee which initiated point 2 above and pretty much took a shit on any hope for BW's expansion. 2007 was the golden year for KeSPA to expand into the foreign market. It's 2011/12 and we finally get an official YouTube service and it was far too late to do that.
Look at the foriegn sc2 fan's reaction to koreans. I think it would have ended badly as long as koreans dominate the scene.
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Just found something interesting, here's a snippet of an interview of Frank Pearce on videogamer.com. Frank Pearce is the co-founder and executive VP of Blizzard (At least according to the site).
Q: Some people who play World of Warcraft will stop to play StarCraft II when it comes out. Is it your view that if people are going to stop playing WoW, they may as well stop it for a Blizzard game?
FP: Yeah, definitely. If anyone's going to make a game that cannibalises the player base for one of our games it may as well be us. Even if the business model isn't the same, even if the business model isn't as favourable, still rather have them as our customers than someone else's customer, you know what I mean? It doesn’t go on any of the bullet points on the back of the boxes for our games, but one of the huge features for our games that sort of goes unspoken and unnoticed is that thriving, vibrant community. If you go online onto Battle.net you know you'll be able to find people to play StarCraft II with. You know that you'll be able to find people to play WoW with. You know you'll be able to find people to interact with that are passionate about Blizzard games.
http://www.videogamer.com/pc/starcraft_2/preview-2380.html
Too bad...
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On April 21 2012 07:34 TrainSamurai wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 07:32 Cassel_Castle wrote:I watch more SC2 than BW, but I really feel that BW pros shouldn't switch until at least HotS, maybe even LotV. There are too many issues with WoL for it to be the premier competitive RTS. Last match being MC vs Thorzain game. From TSL3? That would be an average/mediocre game by 2012 standards. Yea. You have no idea how much I disliked I had for sc2+ its fans after watching that game xD (Time watching sc2 is time not watching BW). I'll give it one more chance when TBLS plays.
I wouldn't count on TBLS having any results in WoL since they've started so late (look at fOrGG and Hyun) but with HotS everyone will have to learn new strategies and the best players should rise to the top.
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I'm rather unsurprised that Flash hit Masters like that. He is simply so good, he can "transcend" games in the same genre. Granted, Masters isn't the "pro level", but I personally think that given SKT's roster, what the coach said about having many players in Diamond is much more surprising.
VERY interesting to see that Violet is GM on NA and Masters on KR and that SKT's A team (what I'm guessing from the quotes) all have GM accounts already.
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EPT
