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On April 21 2012 07:46 AKomrade wrote:
I'm rather unsurprised that Flash hit Masters like that. He is simply so good, he can "transcend" games in the same genre. Granted, Masters isn't the "pro level", but I personally think that given SKT's roster, what the coach said about having many players in Diamond is much more surprising.
VERY interesting to see that Violet is GM on NA and Masters on KR and that SKT's A team (what I'm guessing from the quotes) all have GM accounts already.
To be fair, Masters is not exactly as big a of an accomplishment as people make. When I play SC2 (I don't play it much, but I do), I do strategies like mass marines and mass air protoss and still maintain my rank pretty easily.
I'm far more impressed that Horanng (seriously? Horang of all people) is maintaining a 90% winrate in GM, that's just ridiculous.
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United Kingdom1704 Posts
On April 21 2012 07:46 Cassel_Castle wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 07:34 TrainSamurai wrote:On April 21 2012 07:32 Cassel_Castle wrote:I watch more SC2 than BW, but I really feel that BW pros shouldn't switch until at least HotS, maybe even LotV. There are too many issues with WoL for it to be the premier competitive RTS. Last match being MC vs Thorzain game. From TSL3? That would be an average/mediocre game by 2012 standards. Yea. You have no idea how much I disliked I had for sc2+ its fans after watching that game xD (Time watching sc2 is time not watching BW). I'll give it one more chance when TBLS plays. I wouldn't count on TBLS having any results in WoL since they've started so late (look at fOrGG and Hyun) but with HotS everyone will have to learn new strategies and the best players should rise to the top.
Would people stop talking about fOrGG and Hyun as if they were anywhere NEAR as good as TBLS, before they went on to SC2. Please. Stop it.
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On April 21 2012 00:52 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 00:44 1sz2sz3sz wrote:
some key points:
ace really isn't focusing on sc2 that much.
the best player with sc2 on KT so far is apparently action
the best player with SC2 on SKT1 so far is Fantasy who switched to zerg
the coaches agreed from the players they've seen play SC2 so far, that the best is Horang2 from CJ and said he has had 90% winrate in Korean Grandmaster before Fantasy, Zerg??!!? Nooooo  Oh well I guess I can get used to that.
Fantasy the counterpart to Idra? Both are now Zerg?
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On April 21 2012 07:52 Goldfish wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 00:52 Dodgin wrote:On April 21 2012 00:44 1sz2sz3sz wrote:
some key points:
ace really isn't focusing on sc2 that much.
the best player with sc2 on KT so far is apparently action
the best player with SC2 on SKT1 so far is Fantasy who switched to zerg
the coaches agreed from the players they've seen play SC2 so far, that the best is Horang2 from CJ and said he has had 90% winrate in Korean Grandmaster before Fantasy, Zerg??!!? Nooooo Oh well I guess I can get used to that. Fantasy the counterpart to Idra? Both are now Zerg?
How are their gg timings?
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On April 21 2012 07:53 e_i_pi_1_0 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 07:52 Goldfish wrote:On April 21 2012 00:52 Dodgin wrote:On April 21 2012 00:44 1sz2sz3sz wrote:
some key points:
ace really isn't focusing on sc2 that much.
the best player with sc2 on KT so far is apparently action
the best player with SC2 on SKT1 so far is Fantasy who switched to zerg
the coaches agreed from the players they've seen play SC2 so far, that the best is Horang2 from CJ and said he has had 90% winrate in Korean Grandmaster before Fantasy, Zerg??!!? Nooooo Oh well I guess I can get used to that. Fantasy the counterpart to Idra? Both are now Zerg? How are their gg timings?
Polar opposites of one another 
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I'm actually super excited for the new format.
I played some BW when I was little, then got into WC3 and WoW, and from that scene to SC2... ever since I got into SC2 though I've always had a ton of respect for the BW players, teams, and hardcore fans. I don't watch many BW games simply because it's not a game that I play and understand quite as well as SC2, but when I do it's quite interesting, and for some players even an honor to watch them play.
This new format is a great oppertunity be able to watch BW legends play a classic game as well as bring new and exciting strategies to a more modern game that I personally also play. I hope they keep this format for a long time! I'm sorry for the hardcore BW fans that there will be less BW games, but hopefully they can still enjoy the games that will be played, and possibly come to enjoy some of the SC2 as well.
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Could be the winrates and rank are all made up by their coaches. I can totally imagine people having GM ranks or good win/loss % but i wouldn't be suprised if they was trolololing around with eachanother
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On April 21 2012 07:53 e_i_pi_1_0 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 07:52 Goldfish wrote:On April 21 2012 00:52 Dodgin wrote:On April 21 2012 00:44 1sz2sz3sz wrote:
some key points:
ace really isn't focusing on sc2 that much.
the best player with sc2 on KT so far is apparently action
the best player with SC2 on SKT1 so far is Fantasy who switched to zerg
the coaches agreed from the players they've seen play SC2 so far, that the best is Horang2 from CJ and said he has had 90% winrate in Korean Grandmaster before Fantasy, Zerg??!!? Nooooo Oh well I guess I can get used to that. Fantasy the counterpart to Idra? Both are now Zerg? How are their gg timings?
I've heard that whenever he loses, he ask the other player to apologize for playing that game.
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On April 21 2012 07:46 Cassel_Castle wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 07:34 TrainSamurai wrote:On April 21 2012 07:32 Cassel_Castle wrote:I watch more SC2 than BW, but I really feel that BW pros shouldn't switch until at least HotS, maybe even LotV. There are too many issues with WoL for it to be the premier competitive RTS. Last match being MC vs Thorzain game. From TSL3? That would be an average/mediocre game by 2012 standards. Yea. You have no idea how much I disliked I had for sc2+ its fans after watching that game xD (Time watching sc2 is time not watching BW). I'll give it one more chance when TBLS plays. I wouldn't count on TBLS having any results in WoL since they've started so late (look at fOrGG and Hyun) but with HotS everyone will have to learn new strategies and the best players should rise to the top.
fOrGG and Hyun are nowhere near the TBLS.
Anyway they're playing thier own seperate league. They have the best mechanics +way of thinking within BW. I highly doubt they would have that much difficulty adapting to sc2. The problem is being able to deliver the same results.When I was playing I felt like sc2 had a ridiculous variance that allows a crapper player to win (a better player wins on average but the winrate won't be as high compared to BW), if the TBLS can show that isn't the case then I'll be happy to look into it more, if they fail then yea.... Of course this is assuming the games are entertaining.
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On April 21 2012 07:52 ImbaTosS wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 07:46 Cassel_Castle wrote:On April 21 2012 07:34 TrainSamurai wrote:On April 21 2012 07:32 Cassel_Castle wrote:I watch more SC2 than BW, but I really feel that BW pros shouldn't switch until at least HotS, maybe even LotV. There are too many issues with WoL for it to be the premier competitive RTS. Last match being MC vs Thorzain game. From TSL3? That would be an average/mediocre game by 2012 standards. Yea. You have no idea how much I disliked I had for sc2+ its fans after watching that game xD (Time watching sc2 is time not watching BW). I'll give it one more chance when TBLS plays. I wouldn't count on TBLS having any results in WoL since they've started so late (look at fOrGG and Hyun) but with HotS everyone will have to learn new strategies and the best players should rise to the top. Would people stop talking about fOrGG and Hyun as if they were anywhere NEAR as good as TBLS, before they went on to SC2. Please. Stop it.
MVP is one of the best SC2 players ever and he, like Hyun, only took a game off Flash. fOrGG won an entire Bo5 against Flash. But MVP had a lot more success than Hyun/fOrGG because he started a year earlier. SC2 experience matters, if you don't believe that and you think it will take less than a year for TBLS to win a GSL you don't follow SC2 and the pros that have switched.
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On April 21 2012 08:01 Cassel_Castle wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 07:52 ImbaTosS wrote:On April 21 2012 07:46 Cassel_Castle wrote:On April 21 2012 07:34 TrainSamurai wrote:On April 21 2012 07:32 Cassel_Castle wrote:I watch more SC2 than BW, but I really feel that BW pros shouldn't switch until at least HotS, maybe even LotV. There are too many issues with WoL for it to be the premier competitive RTS. Last match being MC vs Thorzain game. From TSL3? That would be an average/mediocre game by 2012 standards. Yea. You have no idea how much I disliked I had for sc2+ its fans after watching that game xD (Time watching sc2 is time not watching BW). I'll give it one more chance when TBLS plays. I wouldn't count on TBLS having any results in WoL since they've started so late (look at fOrGG and Hyun) but with HotS everyone will have to learn new strategies and the best players should rise to the top. Would people stop talking about fOrGG and Hyun as if they were anywhere NEAR as good as TBLS, before they went on to SC2. Please. Stop it. MVP is one of the best SC2 players ever and he, like Hyun, only took a game off Flash. fOrGG won an entire Bo5 against Flash. But MVP had a lot more success than Hyun/fOrGG because he started a year earlier. SC2 experience matters, if you don't believe that and you think it will take less than a year for TBLS to win a GSL you don't follow SC2 and the pros that have switched.
Dude they're playing in seperate leagues. Those guys are nowhere near TBLS, just take our word for it.
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On April 21 2012 08:05 TrainSamurai wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 08:01 Cassel_Castle wrote:On April 21 2012 07:52 ImbaTosS wrote:On April 21 2012 07:46 Cassel_Castle wrote:On April 21 2012 07:34 TrainSamurai wrote:On April 21 2012 07:32 Cassel_Castle wrote:I watch more SC2 than BW, but I really feel that BW pros shouldn't switch until at least HotS, maybe even LotV. There are too many issues with WoL for it to be the premier competitive RTS. Last match being MC vs Thorzain game. From TSL3? That would be an average/mediocre game by 2012 standards. Yea. You have no idea how much I disliked I had for sc2+ its fans after watching that game xD (Time watching sc2 is time not watching BW). I'll give it one more chance when TBLS plays. I wouldn't count on TBLS having any results in WoL since they've started so late (look at fOrGG and Hyun) but with HotS everyone will have to learn new strategies and the best players should rise to the top. Would people stop talking about fOrGG and Hyun as if they were anywhere NEAR as good as TBLS, before they went on to SC2. Please. Stop it. MVP is one of the best SC2 players ever and he, like Hyun, only took a game off Flash. fOrGG won an entire Bo5 against Flash. But MVP had a lot more success than Hyun/fOrGG because he started a year earlier. SC2 experience matters, if you don't believe that and you think it will take less than a year for TBLS to win a GSL you don't follow SC2 and the pros that have switched. Dude they're playing in seperate leagues. Those guys are nowhere near TBLS, just take our word for it.
I watch BW and SC2, take my word for it. Flash is in a separate league for sure, but Jaedong, Stork, and Bisu lose to players who were on fOrGG/Hyun's level every month.
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On April 21 2012 08:06 Cassel_Castle wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 08:05 TrainSamurai wrote:On April 21 2012 08:01 Cassel_Castle wrote:On April 21 2012 07:52 ImbaTosS wrote:On April 21 2012 07:46 Cassel_Castle wrote:On April 21 2012 07:34 TrainSamurai wrote:On April 21 2012 07:32 Cassel_Castle wrote:I watch more SC2 than BW, but I really feel that BW pros shouldn't switch until at least HotS, maybe even LotV. There are too many issues with WoL for it to be the premier competitive RTS. Last match being MC vs Thorzain game. From TSL3? That would be an average/mediocre game by 2012 standards. Yea. You have no idea how much I disliked I had for sc2+ its fans after watching that game xD (Time watching sc2 is time not watching BW). I'll give it one more chance when TBLS plays. I wouldn't count on TBLS having any results in WoL since they've started so late (look at fOrGG and Hyun) but with HotS everyone will have to learn new strategies and the best players should rise to the top. Would people stop talking about fOrGG and Hyun as if they were anywhere NEAR as good as TBLS, before they went on to SC2. Please. Stop it. MVP is one of the best SC2 players ever and he, like Hyun, only took a game off Flash. fOrGG won an entire Bo5 against Flash. But MVP had a lot more success than Hyun/fOrGG because he started a year earlier. SC2 experience matters, if you don't believe that and you think it will take less than a year for TBLS to win a GSL you don't follow SC2 and the pros that have switched. Dude they're playing in seperate leagues. Those guys are nowhere near TBLS, just take our word for it. I watch BW and SC2, take my word for it.
On April 21 2012 08:05 TrainSamurai wrote:
Dude they're playing in seperate leagues. Those guys are nowhere near TBLS, just take our word for it.
Flash won't be playing MVP.
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On April 21 2012 08:01 Cassel_Castle wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 07:52 ImbaTosS wrote:On April 21 2012 07:46 Cassel_Castle wrote:On April 21 2012 07:34 TrainSamurai wrote:On April 21 2012 07:32 Cassel_Castle wrote:I watch more SC2 than BW, but I really feel that BW pros shouldn't switch until at least HotS, maybe even LotV. There are too many issues with WoL for it to be the premier competitive RTS. Last match being MC vs Thorzain game. From TSL3? That would be an average/mediocre game by 2012 standards. Yea. You have no idea how much I disliked I had for sc2+ its fans after watching that game xD (Time watching sc2 is time not watching BW). I'll give it one more chance when TBLS plays. I wouldn't count on TBLS having any results in WoL since they've started so late (look at fOrGG and Hyun) but with HotS everyone will have to learn new strategies and the best players should rise to the top. Would people stop talking about fOrGG and Hyun as if they were anywhere NEAR as good as TBLS, before they went on to SC2. Please. Stop it. MVP is one of the best SC2 players ever and he, like Hyun, only took a game off Flash. fOrGG won an entire Bo5 against Flash. But MVP had a lot more success than Hyun/fOrGG because he started a year earlier. SC2 experience matters, if you don't believe that and you think it will take less than a year for TBLS to win a GSL you don't follow SC2 and the pros that have switched.
ForGG beat Flash in 2008 so it has absolutely no relevance to the current abilities of both ForGG and Flash. Starting late doesn't mean shit in SC2. Look at Lucifron: just came out of retirement to win a major LAN event. Look at Cruncher: loses 1-2 to Idra after being in retirement. That Flash guy? Became a pro in 2007 and almost instantly became the best terran in the world.
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On April 21 2012 08:08 setzer wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 08:01 Cassel_Castle wrote:On April 21 2012 07:52 ImbaTosS wrote:On April 21 2012 07:46 Cassel_Castle wrote:On April 21 2012 07:34 TrainSamurai wrote:On April 21 2012 07:32 Cassel_Castle wrote:I watch more SC2 than BW, but I really feel that BW pros shouldn't switch until at least HotS, maybe even LotV. There are too many issues with WoL for it to be the premier competitive RTS. Last match being MC vs Thorzain game. From TSL3? That would be an average/mediocre game by 2012 standards. Yea. You have no idea how much I disliked I had for sc2+ its fans after watching that game xD (Time watching sc2 is time not watching BW). I'll give it one more chance when TBLS plays. I wouldn't count on TBLS having any results in WoL since they've started so late (look at fOrGG and Hyun) but with HotS everyone will have to learn new strategies and the best players should rise to the top. Would people stop talking about fOrGG and Hyun as if they were anywhere NEAR as good as TBLS, before they went on to SC2. Please. Stop it. MVP is one of the best SC2 players ever and he, like Hyun, only took a game off Flash. fOrGG won an entire Bo5 against Flash. But MVP had a lot more success than Hyun/fOrGG because he started a year earlier. SC2 experience matters, if you don't believe that and you think it will take less than a year for TBLS to win a GSL you don't follow SC2 and the pros that have switched. ForGG beat Flash in 2008 so it has absolutely no relevance to the current abilities of both ForGG and Flash. Starting late doesn't mean shit in SC2. Look at Lucifron: just came out of retirement to win a major LAN event. Look at Cruncher: loses 1-2 to Idra after being in retirement. That Flash guy? Became a pro in 2007 and almost instantly became the best terran in the world.
Don't pretend that coming back from retirement is even similar to starting late, please.
e: I see what's going on. Ignore my previous posts, my sentiment now is that proleague SC2 will be behind GOM SC2 in skill until HotS.
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On April 21 2012 08:06 Cassel_Castle wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 08:05 TrainSamurai wrote:On April 21 2012 08:01 Cassel_Castle wrote:On April 21 2012 07:52 ImbaTosS wrote:On April 21 2012 07:46 Cassel_Castle wrote:On April 21 2012 07:34 TrainSamurai wrote:On April 21 2012 07:32 Cassel_Castle wrote:I watch more SC2 than BW, but I really feel that BW pros shouldn't switch until at least HotS, maybe even LotV. There are too many issues with WoL for it to be the premier competitive RTS. Last match being MC vs Thorzain game. From TSL3? That would be an average/mediocre game by 2012 standards. Yea. You have no idea how much I disliked I had for sc2+ its fans after watching that game xD (Time watching sc2 is time not watching BW). I'll give it one more chance when TBLS plays. I wouldn't count on TBLS having any results in WoL since they've started so late (look at fOrGG and Hyun) but with HotS everyone will have to learn new strategies and the best players should rise to the top. Would people stop talking about fOrGG and Hyun as if they were anywhere NEAR as good as TBLS, before they went on to SC2. Please. Stop it. MVP is one of the best SC2 players ever and he, like Hyun, only took a game off Flash. fOrGG won an entire Bo5 against Flash. But MVP had a lot more success than Hyun/fOrGG because he started a year earlier. SC2 experience matters, if you don't believe that and you think it will take less than a year for TBLS to win a GSL you don't follow SC2 and the pros that have switched. Dude they're playing in seperate leagues. Those guys are nowhere near TBLS, just take our word for it. I watch BW and SC2, take my word for it. Flash is in a separate league for sure, but Jaedong, Stork, and Bisu lose to players who were on fOrGG/Hyun's level every month.
Last yr Flash got knocked out of OSL and MSL losing to players like classic, Hyuk, Ssak. Bisu failed the individual leagues but he was monstrous in proleague. Jaedong lost a lot of ZvZ, he has really bad luck when it comes to BO, ZvZ were what stopped him from getting more golds. Stork did have a run for dual individual and he was looking pretty invincible until Zero beat him, in his game vs HiYa I think he only lost like 1 dragoon?
This year Flash lost 3 times in PO and etc etc etc. Every TBLS is in a different league compared to normal BW pros.
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Canada11381 Posts
10) Coaches are sad that SC1 only grew in Korea. They really wanted it to grow like how SC2 is with MLG. However, they believe that a foreign community (i.e. mentioning Team Liquid) still exists for BW and they were hoping that this community will always exist. They see that while the eSports community has grown with SC2, in actuality, they feel like the Korean eSports Community has simply grown smaller due to this growth.
11) The coaches REALLY WANTED to approach the foreign scene apparently. Like no other. But because of the strong idea that 'BW is ours and proleague is ours', the coaches couldn't approach the foreign scene. They see that the foreign community is there with the comments, team liquid, and youtube videos, but they just couldn't do anything about it. (tone of regret does exist here) They were happy that the previosu finals was done globally, but still sad that it's so late.
This is amongst the most depressing of the interview. It's such a shame that they never did see us as an important audience until it was much too late.
My biggest fear with the whole switch to SC2 because it's strong internationally is the whole top down approach. They're basically trying to create a market rather than a league forming out of a massive fan base. It totally makes sense for MLG and IPL to pick up SC2 because of the massive enthusiasm in North America/ Europe etc. And whatever you think of MOBA's, it makes sense to create big LoL tournies because of the massive fan/ userbase.
But in Korea, there already is GOM, but SC2 never spread like wildfire. And yet KESPA is now going to try to rope the Koreans in. But what if it all fails and we sacrificed a fading but successful BW league for a SC2 league flop because of no domestic support? Can the international community actually that massive so as to support a second Korean league across the waters? It reminds of Gary Bettman's approach to expanding hockey teams to south US where they don't even get natural ice in order to play hockey. Sure ice hockey is popular elsewhere (northern US and Canada), but can a league create a fan base where there was very little domestically? There's a reason northern hemisphere countries dominate the Winter Olympics and particularly ice hockey.
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On April 21 2012 08:06 Cassel_Castle wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 08:05 TrainSamurai wrote:On April 21 2012 08:01 Cassel_Castle wrote:On April 21 2012 07:52 ImbaTosS wrote:On April 21 2012 07:46 Cassel_Castle wrote:On April 21 2012 07:34 TrainSamurai wrote:On April 21 2012 07:32 Cassel_Castle wrote:I watch more SC2 than BW, but I really feel that BW pros shouldn't switch until at least HotS, maybe even LotV. There are too many issues with WoL for it to be the premier competitive RTS. Last match being MC vs Thorzain game. From TSL3? That would be an average/mediocre game by 2012 standards. Yea. You have no idea how much I disliked I had for sc2+ its fans after watching that game xD (Time watching sc2 is time not watching BW). I'll give it one more chance when TBLS plays. I wouldn't count on TBLS having any results in WoL since they've started so late (look at fOrGG and Hyun) but with HotS everyone will have to learn new strategies and the best players should rise to the top. Would people stop talking about fOrGG and Hyun as if they were anywhere NEAR as good as TBLS, before they went on to SC2. Please. Stop it. MVP is one of the best SC2 players ever and he, like Hyun, only took a game off Flash. fOrGG won an entire Bo5 against Flash. But MVP had a lot more success than Hyun/fOrGG because he started a year earlier. SC2 experience matters, if you don't believe that and you think it will take less than a year for TBLS to win a GSL you don't follow SC2 and the pros that have switched. Dude they're playing in seperate leagues. Those guys are nowhere near TBLS, just take our word for it. I watch BW and SC2, take my word for it. Flash is in a separate league for sure, but Jaedong, Stork, and Bisu lose to players who were on fOrGG/Hyun's level every month.
You realize that starcraft is a game where a 60% winrate means you are a very solid player, right? You obviously don't watch enough of it.
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EPT
