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BW Head Coaches on SC2 - Page 26

Forum Index > BW General
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Dontkillme
Profile Joined November 2011
Korea (South)806 Posts
April 20 2012 21:05 GMT
#501
:D if your translations are correct, We could see BW pros play SC2. Please :D
Bomber & Jaedong & FlaSh & SNSD <3
setzer
Profile Joined March 2010
United States3284 Posts
April 20 2012 21:06 GMT
#502
Will be interesting to see how the ACE team approaches the change over to SC2. Thanks for the translation
eviltomahawk
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States11135 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-20 21:15:54
April 20 2012 21:08 GMT
#503
On April 21 2012 05:58 Jeremy Reimer wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
I have mixed feelings about all this.

I think I'm one of the few people who can honestly say they see both sides being partially correct about the switch. I started watching professional BW before I even knew that it *was* professional in Korea. I scoured Manifesto7's site to find as many RWA (Replays with Audio) as I could because it was just so much fun to watch and listen to commentary on BW. Later I learned more and followed the Korean BW scene closely, just in time for the epic Flash vs Jaedong wars. I'm a Jaedong fan for life, so I'm still a little bit sad that Flash ended up winning in the end and Jaedong slumped just a little.

But I also found Tasteless commenting BW on GOMTV.net and fell in love with that, having English commentary on the game I loved was something I wanted more than anything. When the GOMTV Classics went away I felt like something had been taken from me. When he came back with Artosis to commentate Starcraft II, I was incredibly excited.

I remember the first few seasons of the GSL. The games were pretty sloppy. The map pool was terrible. I had fun, but I had to admit that the level of competition was just not where Brood War was. Still, it was new, and it was exciting.

Then Starcraft II exploded around the world, and I went from having not enough Starcraft (with English commentary, even!) to watch to having TOO MUCH to watch. I remember the point when I officially could not watch any more, and had to start picking and choosing tournaments to watch.

I still watched OSL and MSL (RIP) religiously during this time. I still love Jaedong forever. I gained a begrudging respect for Flash's amazing abilities. This season I decided I would watch Proleague consistently, and it was incredible. It felt bittersweet, knowing it was probably the last BW (turns out it was the last BW-only) season. The finals were incredible.

So here's the thing.

Both sides are right, but in different ways.

SC2 is not, right now, as wonderful a game as BW is right now.

But it has gotten a LOT better, and could get better still.

Some of the earliest problems were map-related. GOMTV to their eternal credit forced Blizzard to change this and get proper macro maps. It took a while, but there are some amazing SC2 maps now. The other problem was a lack of consistent skill and far too many players all-inning (especially Terran... remember Bit By Bit Prime?). This was fixed as players got better and the Bit By Bits fell out of the system.

The remainder of the issues, the clumping of units, the "deathball" problem, the "both players wait until maxed, clump armies together, fight, one army wins, that player wins the game" are still an issue, but I see this happening less and less. I think this is all due to the players getting better.

The other day I saw a SC2 TvZ that had multiple battles, all over the map, not just drops but engagements and pokes and counter-pokes and real strategy, and the better player started to win battles JUST SLIGHTLY because they were positioning units better and thinking better, and although it went back and forth the better player ended up winning.

Honestly, it felt like a game of BW.

Sadly, the next game in the series was a quick deathball push. So I don't think SC2 is quite there yet.

With luck, the HOTS expansion and the influx of a huge number of really skilled BW professional players will raise the level of the game back to where it was in BW. This would be the best possible outcome I think.

But I can understand the coaches being a little bit sad that BW won't carry on its epic legacy somehow. It's a bit sad that BW is being forced into retirement sooner than it should be.

TL;DR: Both sides are right. BW is still a better game to watch, right now. But SC2 has the potential to be as good. It's still sad that we are all forced to choose rather than being able to keep both.

Dude, this is exactly how I feel about this entire ordeal.

It's not all black and white to me. I love watching great games of SC2, but I loathe the mediocre ones. I love keeping my eyes glued to the screen through fantastic games of BW, but I can just as easily have a hard time sitting through low-quality games (unless it's of the "so bad it's good" kind). Of course, team and player fanboyism sometimes makes even shitty games seem entertaining and suspenseful when watched live.

edit: I just pulled an all-nighter and am very delirious, and I just read the title as "BW Hard Counter Roaches in SC2." Time to sleep lolol.
ㅇㅅㅌㅅ
VPCursed
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
1044 Posts
April 20 2012 21:08 GMT
#504
o look, bw vs sc2.
1Eris1
Profile Joined September 2010
United States5797 Posts
April 20 2012 21:09 GMT
#505
On April 21 2012 06:05 YosHGo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 20 2012 22:34 blubbdavid wrote:
On April 20 2012 22:32 Sawamura wrote:
On April 20 2012 22:28 blubbdavid wrote:
That's it for me.


Oh come on, it's for e-sports man we should support them bw pro's going to sc2 as you can see even the coaches were having a blast talking about sc2 . I mean I don't mind seeing history repeat itself when this guy dominate the scene and the foreign scene will know where their standing is again after all . Korean dominance sound pretty sweet in my opinion.

k, but only if I get monthly packages of Redbull so that I stay awake during the games.


A message for all BWers that dont seem to get it - SC2 IS VANILLA! SC2 IS VANILLA! SC2 IS VANILLA! I know you have the right to be pissed but i cannot not to respond to such terrible statement that sc2 is boring. How can you compare a game with datadisc and one without it?


Well if you're going to tell me to watch it damn right I'm going to compare it another. I don't want to wait 5 years for something to get good when I already have something great right in front of me...

Anyways, on topic....this blows. Some touching quotes though; glad to see they weren't completely oblivious and share a lot of my thoughts/concerns.
Known Aliases: Tyragon, Valeric ~MSL Forever, SKT is truly the Superior KT!
supernovamaniac
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States3046 Posts
April 20 2012 21:10 GMT
#506
On April 21 2012 06:08 VPCursed wrote:
o look, bw vs sc2.

Round 384273948230942384094

Ready....

Go!
ppp
amazingxkcd
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts
April 20 2012 21:12 GMT
#507
On April 21 2012 06:10 supernovamaniac wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 21 2012 06:08 VPCursed wrote:
o look, bw vs sc2.

Round 384273948230942384094

Ready....

Go!

Round 384273948230942384094 already happened 30 minutes and 4 threads ago, we are on to Round 38427394823094235555
The world is burning and you rather be on this terrible website discussing video games and your shallow feelings
Stratos
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Czech Republic6104 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-20 21:15:22
April 20 2012 21:14 GMT
#508
On April 21 2012 06:05 YosHGo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 20 2012 22:34 blubbdavid wrote:
On April 20 2012 22:32 Sawamura wrote:
On April 20 2012 22:28 blubbdavid wrote:
That's it for me.


Oh come on, it's for e-sports man we should support them bw pro's going to sc2 as you can see even the coaches were having a blast talking about sc2 . I mean I don't mind seeing history repeat itself when this guy dominate the scene and the foreign scene will know where their standing is again after all . Korean dominance sound pretty sweet in my opinion.

k, but only if I get monthly packages of Redbull so that I stay awake during the games.


A message for all BWers that dont seem to get it - SC2 IS VANILLA! SC2 IS VANILLA! SC2 IS VANILLA! I know you have the right to be pissed but i cannot not to respond to such terrible statement that sc2 is boring. How can you compare a game with datadisc and one without it?

So are there going to be new graphics, brand new AI and new user interface besides new units and spells in the expansion?

Because those are my main concerns, and I know for a fact that some of us feel the same way. And even if that would be the case and all these problems were solved; it's irrelevant to the situation we're facing - we like our game but it's being pushed out ALREADY be the SC2 VANILLA SC2 VANILLA SC2 VANILLA (yep, got it). So why should we care if it's VANILLA or CHOCOLATE? It's just a game we don't like that's effectively killing a game we do like.

Your argument hardly makes any sense. If anything, it supports the opinion of many of us - that it shouldn't be happening in the first place. But it is, and so we mad!
En Taro Violet
Daozzt
Profile Joined July 2010
United States1263 Posts
April 20 2012 21:16 GMT
#509
On April 21 2012 06:05 YosHGo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 20 2012 22:34 blubbdavid wrote:
On April 20 2012 22:32 Sawamura wrote:
On April 20 2012 22:28 blubbdavid wrote:
That's it for me.


Oh come on, it's for e-sports man we should support them bw pro's going to sc2 as you can see even the coaches were having a blast talking about sc2 . I mean I don't mind seeing history repeat itself when this guy dominate the scene and the foreign scene will know where their standing is again after all . Korean dominance sound pretty sweet in my opinion.

k, but only if I get monthly packages of Redbull so that I stay awake during the games.


A message for all BWers that dont seem to get it - SC2 IS VANILLA! SC2 IS VANILLA! SC2 IS VANILLA! I know you have the right to be pissed but i cannot not to respond to such terrible statement that sc2 is boring. How can you compare a game with datadisc and one without it?


How is that a terrible statement? It is what it is. Many people feel SC2 is boring so they don't care for it.
LanTAs
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1091 Posts
April 20 2012 21:24 GMT
#510
On April 21 2012 06:16 Daozzt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 21 2012 06:05 YosHGo wrote:
On April 20 2012 22:34 blubbdavid wrote:
On April 20 2012 22:32 Sawamura wrote:
On April 20 2012 22:28 blubbdavid wrote:
That's it for me.


Oh come on, it's for e-sports man we should support them bw pro's going to sc2 as you can see even the coaches were having a blast talking about sc2 . I mean I don't mind seeing history repeat itself when this guy dominate the scene and the foreign scene will know where their standing is again after all . Korean dominance sound pretty sweet in my opinion.

k, but only if I get monthly packages of Redbull so that I stay awake during the games.


A message for all BWers that dont seem to get it - SC2 IS VANILLA! SC2 IS VANILLA! SC2 IS VANILLA! I know you have the right to be pissed but i cannot not to respond to such terrible statement that sc2 is boring. How can you compare a game with datadisc and one without it?


How is that a terrible statement? It is what it is. Many people feel SC2 is boring so they don't care for it.



Yeah, honestly, i watched (STILL DO, GOGO FLASH) BW and play/watch SC2, and honestly watching SC2 battles are like watching really bad hockey games where one team just keeps scoring and the other team can't get the momentum to come back. Watching BroodWar is like watching a really tense hockey game complete with the fighting, the slips, the blocked shots, its everything that you could ever hope for a spectator RTS, and i find it really sad that SC:BW is probably gonna be phased out in a year or two, because its such an exciting game to watch other people play T.T
oOOoOphidian
Profile Joined January 2011
United States1402 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-20 21:27:40
April 20 2012 21:25 GMT
#511
I always wonder if the people who thought SC2 was boring only ever played/watched it back when the maps and balance essentially forced 1 base all-ins every game, or if they've actually seen any of the good games that occur now. I stuck with SC2 and now I think it's a good game. The mechanics are still a challenge despite MBS and a lot of other differences between SC2 and BW are not catastrophic in terms of gameplay.
Creator of sc2unmasked.com
supernovamaniac
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States3046 Posts
April 20 2012 21:27 GMT
#512
On April 21 2012 06:25 oOOoOphidian wrote:
I always wonder if the people who thought SC2 was boring only ever played/watched it back when the maps and balance essentially forced 1 base all-ins every game, or if they've actually seen any of the good games that occur now.

Oh please. Don't try to make such arguments now.

I've watched since the beta, and I didn't find watching SC2 fun as much as watching BW even to this day.
ppp
Stratos
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Czech Republic6104 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-20 21:38:02
April 20 2012 21:32 GMT
#513
On April 21 2012 06:25 oOOoOphidian wrote:
I always wonder if the people who thought SC2 was boring only ever played/watched it back when the maps and balance essentially forced 1 base all-ins every game, or if they've actually seen any of the good games that occur now.

I can't speak for anyone else but I do regularly come back to check a game or two. I often watch Idra or Boxer streaming practice games or a Day[9] Daily. And even though I honestly try and even though the games are somewhat better imo - and I actually came here for SC2 first and didn't even know anything about BW beforehand - I just can't get to enjoy these games nearly as much as I enjoy a good BW game :T
En Taro Violet
Deleted User 183001
Profile Joined May 2011
2939 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-20 21:33:43
April 20 2012 21:32 GMT
#514
Dear professional Korean BW,
Thanks for an amazing 5 and a half years of great times and entertainment. Thanks for making me a bit fond of kpop and Korean food and other things and an attraction to Korean / Chinese girls that has translated into some fruitful relationships and some of the better times in my life. Thanks for all the great games and matches and players. Take care. I'll always remember you.

-Bolts
neobowman
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada3324 Posts
April 20 2012 21:33 GMT
#515
I agree with a lot of what these coaches are saying. Especially Team 8's coach's words, keeping BW as a living legacy sort of thing. That would be amazing.
thopol
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
Japan4560 Posts
April 20 2012 21:34 GMT
#516
Well it looks like everyone is happy enough with this whole shitshow. Of course SKT1 is the most enthusiastic about being terrible to everything we all love (according to the set of notes). It's really a damn shame that STX bought so wholeheartedly into undermining professional BW that they practiced whatever whatever during the real season.

I feel truly betrayed by the team that I always pulled for with all my heart. It's unbelievable that they decided to turn their STARCRAFT team into a whatever whatever team while the season was happening.

I watched all of those games thinking that my team was trying their best to win. It's fucking tragic that they weren't.

For every PL playoffs it was always this story where STX had made deep runs but had never won. To think that they decided, on the last PL, to fucking abandon the sport, to abandon the fans... I can't really handle that.

Fuck all of these money-grubbing assholes. I just want ESPORTS. Please give it back to me.
slappy
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States1271 Posts
April 20 2012 21:35 GMT
#517
On April 21 2012 06:24 LanTAs wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 21 2012 06:16 Daozzt wrote:
On April 21 2012 06:05 YosHGo wrote:
On April 20 2012 22:34 blubbdavid wrote:
On April 20 2012 22:32 Sawamura wrote:
On April 20 2012 22:28 blubbdavid wrote:
That's it for me.


Oh come on, it's for e-sports man we should support them bw pro's going to sc2 as you can see even the coaches were having a blast talking about sc2 . I mean I don't mind seeing history repeat itself when this guy dominate the scene and the foreign scene will know where their standing is again after all . Korean dominance sound pretty sweet in my opinion.

k, but only if I get monthly packages of Redbull so that I stay awake during the games.


A message for all BWers that dont seem to get it - SC2 IS VANILLA! SC2 IS VANILLA! SC2 IS VANILLA! I know you have the right to be pissed but i cannot not to respond to such terrible statement that sc2 is boring. How can you compare a game with datadisc and one without it?


How is that a terrible statement? It is what it is. Many people feel SC2 is boring so they don't care for it.



Yeah, honestly, i watched (STILL DO, GOGO FLASH) BW and play/watch SC2, and honestly watching SC2 battles are like watching really bad hockey games where one team just keeps scoring and the other team can't get the momentum to come back. Watching BroodWar is like watching a really tense hockey game complete with the fighting, the slips, the blocked shots, its everything that you could ever hope for a spectator RTS, and i find it really sad that SC:BW is probably gonna be phased out in a year or two, because its such an exciting game to watch other people play T.T


I feel like every sc2 match I've watched plays out like a BW ZvZ
jaedong imba
LanTAs
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1091 Posts
April 20 2012 21:39 GMT
#518
On April 21 2012 06:35 slappy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 21 2012 06:24 LanTAs wrote:
On April 21 2012 06:16 Daozzt wrote:
On April 21 2012 06:05 YosHGo wrote:
On April 20 2012 22:34 blubbdavid wrote:
On April 20 2012 22:32 Sawamura wrote:
On April 20 2012 22:28 blubbdavid wrote:
That's it for me.


Oh come on, it's for e-sports man we should support them bw pro's going to sc2 as you can see even the coaches were having a blast talking about sc2 . I mean I don't mind seeing history repeat itself when this guy dominate the scene and the foreign scene will know where their standing is again after all . Korean dominance sound pretty sweet in my opinion.

k, but only if I get monthly packages of Redbull so that I stay awake during the games.


A message for all BWers that dont seem to get it - SC2 IS VANILLA! SC2 IS VANILLA! SC2 IS VANILLA! I know you have the right to be pissed but i cannot not to respond to such terrible statement that sc2 is boring. How can you compare a game with datadisc and one without it?


How is that a terrible statement? It is what it is. Many people feel SC2 is boring so they don't care for it.



Yeah, honestly, i watched (STILL DO, GOGO FLASH) BW and play/watch SC2, and honestly watching SC2 battles are like watching really bad hockey games where one team just keeps scoring and the other team can't get the momentum to come back. Watching BroodWar is like watching a really tense hockey game complete with the fighting, the slips, the blocked shots, its everything that you could ever hope for a spectator RTS, and i find it really sad that SC:BW is probably gonna be phased out in a year or two, because its such an exciting game to watch other people play T.T


I feel like every sc2 match I've watched plays out like a BW ZvZ


Honestly, i think one of the problems is that blizzard made units that specifically counter one or two units and are practically useless vs everything else(ex. helions), it makes for a really fucking boring game to watch once you keep seeing the same unit compositions that can only be maneuvered one way and are only useful in one way >__<.
FlaShFTW
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States10135 Posts
April 20 2012 21:43 GMT
#519
so flash basically winged everything? damn. hes that good huh?
Writer#1 KT and FlaSh Fanboy || Woo Jung Ho Never Forget || Teamliquid Political Decision Desk
TL+ Member
Namu
Profile Joined February 2011
United States826 Posts
April 20 2012 21:49 GMT
#520
On April 21 2012 06:14 Stratos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 21 2012 06:05 YosHGo wrote:
On April 20 2012 22:34 blubbdavid wrote:
On April 20 2012 22:32 Sawamura wrote:
On April 20 2012 22:28 blubbdavid wrote:
That's it for me.


Oh come on, it's for e-sports man we should support them bw pro's going to sc2 as you can see even the coaches were having a blast talking about sc2 . I mean I don't mind seeing history repeat itself when this guy dominate the scene and the foreign scene will know where their standing is again after all . Korean dominance sound pretty sweet in my opinion.

k, but only if I get monthly packages of Redbull so that I stay awake during the games.


A message for all BWers that dont seem to get it - SC2 IS VANILLA! SC2 IS VANILLA! SC2 IS VANILLA! I know you have the right to be pissed but i cannot not to respond to such terrible statement that sc2 is boring. How can you compare a game with datadisc and one without it?

So are there going to be new graphics, brand new AI and new user interface besides new units and spells in the expansion?

Because those are my main concerns, and I know for a fact that some of us feel the same way. And even if that would be the case and all these problems were solved; it's irrelevant to the situation we're facing - we like our game but it's being pushed out ALREADY be the SC2 VANILLA SC2 VANILLA SC2 VANILLA (yep, got it). So why should we care if it's VANILLA or CHOCOLATE? It's just a game we don't like that's effectively killing a game we do like.

Your argument hardly makes any sense. If anything, it supports the opinion of many of us - that it shouldn't be happening in the first place. But it is, and so we mad!



I think some people have a great misconception. SC2 is not killing SC:BW. The interview says that they can't have a proper league with sc:bw (not right now, but soon enough it'll become like that). They are having immense difficulties gaining sponsors, and thus have financial issues maintaining a pure SC:BW league/teams. This SC2 pushing out sc:bw/killing it is nonsense. Basically, SC:BW is dying, and these coaches aren't denying that.
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