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endy
Switzerland8970 Posts
On March 20 2012 14:38 4vvhiplash7 wrote: which games is this? I would love to see a game between Flash and Stats Here you go : http://www.teamliquid.net/replay/download.php?replay=1993 | ||
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baubo
China3370 Posts
On March 20 2012 13:56 Fenrax wrote: Terrans in general seem to be out of ideas for midgame and late game against Protoss since a while. Literally all they after the early game is the 3 base turtle style into doom push, there is absolutely no variation to this. Take 3 bases, macro to ~170 supply, go kill him, cross your fingers that it will work. I think only once this season an Airforce Terran took a fourth base (and lost). The thing is, I feel like if Flash had just done this the normal way, without corner-cutting, I think he would've won all three games with this exact same build. Flash's doom push is insanely good. Just look at how close he came to killing Jangbi on Pathfinder despite Jangbi having a huge early game BO advantage and insane push-breaking skills. | ||
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DKing6297
United States78 Posts
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Archers_bane
United States1338 Posts
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Caihead
Canada8550 Posts
On March 20 2012 15:02 baubo wrote: The thing is, I feel like if Flash had just done this the normal way, without corner-cutting, I think he would've won all three games with this exact same build. Flash's doom push is insanely good. Just look at how close he came to killing Jangbi on Pathfinder despite Jangbi having a huge early game BO advantage and insane push-breaking skills. 3 base doom push in TvP is akin to 2 base push in PvZ, if you can't win at that point it becomes a complete uncertainty who is going to win the game, the only "reliable" way to win is for the terran to secure half the map against a faster expanding protoss, which is similar to a PvZ where the protoss has to secure as many bases as possible and keep the zerg bases down... except terrans have to commit a sizable amount of army usually to effectively deny a base or harass because it lacks reliable forms of harassment beyond vultures. | ||
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TheNessman
United States4158 Posts
LOL LOLLLLLLLl | ||
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letian
Germany4221 Posts
Flash is not slumping, my God. Flash is not a robot (is he?) Flash just let go his concentration a little bit. Still I hope CJ pawns KT, hehehe But thanks for comics | ||
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SmoKim
Denmark10307 Posts
curse those probes, imbaimba! | ||
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Reaper9
United States1724 Posts
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Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
On March 20 2012 15:12 Caihead wrote: 3 base doom push in TvP is akin to 2 base push in PvZ, if you can't win at that point it becomes a complete uncertainty who is going to win the game, the only "reliable" way to win is for the terran to secure half the map against a faster expanding protoss, which is similar to a PvZ where the protoss has to secure as many bases as possible and keep the zerg bases down... except terrans have to commit a sizable amount of army usually to effectively deny a base or harass because it lacks reliable forms of harassment beyond vultures. But if the 2 base push for Tosses doesn't work they will take a 3rd and even a fourth from time to time after they did their damage and transition into a late game. Terrans literally NEVER take a fourth these days, no matter what, absolutelely no matter. It is so odd. Their SCVs just stop mining when main and natural are mined out. | ||
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Scaramanga
Australia8093 Posts
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InFdude
Bulgaria619 Posts
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firehand101
Australia3152 Posts
On March 20 2012 13:56 Fenrax wrote: Terrans in general seem to be out of ideas for midgame and late game against Protoss since a while. Literally all they after the early game is the 3 base turtle style into doom push, there is absolutely no variation to this. Take 3 bases, macro to ~170 supply, go kill him, cross your fingers that it will work. I think only once this season an Airforce Terran took a fourth base (and lost). we need some innovation from god himself! | ||
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Scarecrow
Korea (South)9175 Posts
On March 20 2012 15:02 baubo wrote: The thing is, I feel like if Flash had just done this the normal way, without corner-cutting, I think he would've won all three games with this exact same build. Flash's doom push is insanely good. Just look at how close he came to killing Jangbi on Pathfinder despite Jangbi having a huge early game BO advantage and insane push-breaking skills. You're wrong. Flash takes risks for a reason. He understands the matchup far better than we do and does his utmost to prepare and win. | ||
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Dental Floss
United States1015 Posts
On March 20 2012 15:58 Scarecrow wrote: You're wrong. Flash takes risks for a reason and he understands the matchup far better than we do and he does his utmost to prepare and win. Yeah, when Flash cuts corners he does it better than anyone and people go "whaaaat? How is his macro so good/how is he 20 supply ahead/how does it make it look so easy?" But then he cuts it just a liiiiitle too close and loses a game and people are saying that he needs to just play safe. Flash's ability to cut corners and skip on every little thing are what makes him so good. You know who plays safe? Sea. People also discount the psychological stuff Flash is constantly doing. I remember in an interview he said that he plans his interview answers to manipulate his opponents and tailors them based on who he might play. Nobody wins 15 in a row on skill alone. SC is a lot like poker in that regard. | ||
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ninazerg
United States7291 Posts
But seriously, Flash, what the french toast? | ||
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Hero.SP
Chile711 Posts
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doothegee
Korea (South)3011 Posts
On March 20 2012 15:58 Scarecrow wrote: You're wrong. Flash takes risks for a reason and he understands the matchup far better than we do and he does his utmost to prepare and win. Nevar evar criticize Flash But on topic, I kinda liked Fantasy's idea (against Jaehoon?) of "Oh, you're going to run over my tank line? I'll destroy two of your bases with drops while I try to manage a draw in the main fight with mines and tank imba." | ||
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Caihead
Canada8550 Posts
On March 20 2012 15:27 Fenrax wrote: But if the 2 base push for Tosses doesn't work they will take a 3rd and even a fourth from time to time after they did their damage and transition into a late game. Terrans literally NEVER take a fourth these days, no matter what, absolutelely no matter. It is so odd. Their SCVs just stop mining when main and natural are mined out. Yes, the reasoning is of the points that I highlighted. A toss in PvZ can take a 3rd and fourth while having its army to defend key points between the nat and 3rd / fourth and at the same time ensure the zerg isn't completely unharassed because of drops that can do great damage in a very short time (storm drop or reaver drop takes ~10 pop and while expensive can react fast enough to return to the main army if the zerg engages). The terran can't do that, if he wants to deny economy it's half of his army moving out, unless the protoss is careless and allows the terran the ability to micro vultures in the mineral line which ofcourse does happen and good terrans capitalize on those mistakes but the terran can't always depend on the opponent making a mistake. If the terran commits to taking a fourth it means that he has to settle on turtling on half the map and starve the protoss out or lose and that's literally it since the protoss is going to go unharassed and have more expansions. | ||
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Caihead
Canada8550 Posts
On March 20 2012 16:23 doothegee wrote: Nevar evar criticize Flash But on topic, I kinda liked Fantasy's idea (against Jaehoon?) of "Oh, you're going to run over my tank line? I'll destroy two of your bases with drops while I try to manage a draw in the main fight with mines and tank imba." That was a really one off phenomenon though. Jaehoon could have literally pulled his probes from the expansion attacked the 2 lone tanks forcing them to unsiege and waited for 2 or 3 zealots to arrive but he just didn't react at all. Serious props to fantasy for pulling it off but it's just not a dependable strategy. | ||
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