Everybody should play a little SC2 - Page 8

amazingxkcd

GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts

January 27 2012 18:38 GMT

#141

I play both games, playing bw a little bit more. The thing with SC2 and BW is that both games have different flavors and gameplay. BW is more about being mechanically adept, whereas SC2 is more about decision making and game awareness. However, the only thing that SC2 has helped me with BW is map awareness simply because of how fast units die in SC2. If you don't keep awareness of your main army and it gets engaged, you will lose it, especially as a zerg player. I'm not saying that SC2 is bad, but BW for me has more rewarding gameplay.

Artunit

Philippines399 Posts

January 27 2012 18:46 GMT

#142

@ C- level you still have much to experience. That's all.

garbanzo

United States4046 Posts

January 27 2012 18:58 GMT

#143

I'm sorry I didn't read your response to Pholon quite yet, but I agree with a lot of his points. I think the primary thought is that you have no clear concept of the audience. I think a fair assumption to have is that the population of players with some BW background are as follows (from largest to smallest): 1. Fans who loved playing BW, were excited about SC2, tried playing SC2, and are now playing SC2 predominantly; 2. Fans who loved playing BW, were excited about SC2, tried playing SC2 (for some amount of time), but is still playing BW predominantly; 3. Fans who loved playing BW, didn't try out SC2 (for one reason or another), and still play BW predominantly. Of course these aren't exclusive sets entirely. I think there are people who are kinda in between group 1 and group 2 so they play both games. The point is that you are trying to appeal to groups 2 and 3, so you have to know why they went back or never left BW to begin with.

I think for the majority of the people in those groups most of the reasons you have chosen are exactly why they don't play SC2, i.e. too focused on a single engagement, mechanically easier. I think you make some good arguments about how BW is more "relaxing" and how SC2 is more "exciting" with the possible range of strategies because of their respective ages of maturity. It would also help to point out the changes SC2 has gone through since they last played it (whenever that may be).

I'm happy that you actually made a good attempt at making a reasonable post in the BW forum to complement the post in the SC2 forum. I think there could be more though.

For transparency, I belong in the first group. And the reason why I like playing SC2 more is because it's more relaxing and more casual. Playing BW is damn scary and difficult.

Yodo

Russian Federation327 Posts

January 27 2012 19:07 GMT

#144

I did get the occasional win against people like White-Ra and Strelok (which never could have happened in BW ;-)

Basically it proves that SC2 is no skill game. The difference between players is minimal, you can constantly see how top player will die to random no-namer. Yes SC2 is more interesting for low-level players as they have much more time to think about strategy, which allows them to play RTS and not mouse training program. But it is irrelevant on high levels. BW has much more space for skill to grow, which leads to a great diversity in play-style and stronger players can't be swiped by a lucky noob. Can you call it call it e-sport when you need mere 2 month to hit the top and still can't be sure to get stability in results?
I prefer to be D level BW player than SC2's Master. Maybe in 5 years things will change and game would be patched and refined, but with current market flow I bet it would be under the pile of dust from WarCraft4, SC3 or any other new-and-shiny "awesome" game.

Pholon

Netherlands6142 Posts

January 27 2012 19:09 GMT

#145

I need to clear up something:

On January 28 2012 02:51 Facultyadjutant wrote:
Was going to write something constructive but wow...
Sc2 forum is a hyped conformist idiocy
meanwhile
bw forums is an elitist circlejerk
Everyone should play a little bit of sc2, and everyone should play some bw.

User was warned for this post

I wanred this guy cause of the words "idiocy" and "circlejerk", it's no use defiling a decent topic like that. Then I wondered where did he get the "bw elitist" part from. The overall responses appear to what I think is a genuine effort from the OP seem to be "thanks for the heads up, but most of us already did try". Nothing elitist about that. You see if you get it into your head that every SC2 related thread is going to turn out as some flamewar then, yes, it will become one. In that light I actually discovered I find both these posts horrible:

On January 28 2012 01:24 DyEnasTy wrote:

Show nested quote +

*cleaningvomitoffface* yeah a litttle.

I play both. But I dont think this thread was necessary.

Manner up yo.

_Quasar_

Russian Federation4405 Posts

January 27 2012 19:11 GMT

#146

Everybody should play a little SC2

Why? It's not a trolling, but I seriously don't understand why.

You can get some experience and new insight in BW if you do just anything. For example if you play chess. You can suddenly have a new idea.

And about build-orders and position. I always had the manner of thinking myself and experimentation, and figuring out WHY those builds are used and those tactical tricks are used. And whole reps.ru forum is all about this too. It's just normal not to be conservative.

zanderfever.TV

United States362 Posts

January 27 2012 19:15 GMT

#147

Bravo! Both games are great and feed into each other. Thank you for making the counterpart to my thread, i'm flattered, pleased, and respect you for doing that which too many people say is bad. And, you did it well. Thank you

therockmanxx

Peru1174 Posts

January 27 2012 19:17 GMT

#148

u mean like a casual gamer??
Because thats the only way I could like it

Falling

Canada11363 Posts

January 27 2012 19:20 GMT

#149

Yup. I've played it. Actually, I'm pretty sure I came out of lurking TL to join in the hype when Blizzard was revealing new units. Played it in Beta, recruited 4-5 of my friends/ relatives and we all played it, but slowly we've all stopped playing for a variety of reasons. For me, at first it was because after one patch, SC2 started lagging like crazy on my poor laptop. But by the time I got an excellent computer, I had re-fallen in love with BW and there was no looking back. And now everyone I recruited is either back to BW or moved on to different games.

But I still follow State of the Game and certain SC2 tournaments that fit my schedule- unless Sayle is casting at the same time.

mansa

Philippines336 Posts

January 27 2012 19:21 GMT

#150

I play SC2 sometimes..

If you count custom maps...

Honestly though Sc2 is a good game and I think that people should have at least touched it. Its the only modern RTS that has the employed the classic RTS mechanics. Though I doubt that I will be ever be into the competitive scene as I am a BW elitist and all.... >.<

LEGAsee

170 Posts

January 27 2012 19:39 GMT

#151

On January 28 2012 02:10 Percutio wrote:

Show nested quote +

On January 28 2012 02:03 KenNage wrote:

On January 28 2012 01:40 BLinD-RawR wrote:

On January 28 2012 01:30 KenNage wrote:

On January 28 2012 01:23 Mazaire wrote:
As someone who is not form BW, just reading this thread, I felt it could have been better implemented. Thing is, Sc2 is a game that is very much still in its infancy. Unlike brood war which is 10 (11?) years old now, it hasn't had the time to be balanced, worked out and made more interesting to an extent. The game is still waiting two more expansions so who knows what will happen between now and then. So i feel that though the generally BW community should give it a chance, even though objectively BW may be a whole lot more fun to play.

One of the threads that makes me violently ill is the elephant in the room thread. That thread was written off the back of a couple of months of REALLY bad pro performance/games and basically is a thread that bashes SC2 and its players. But by comparison BW players were barely figuring out how to use hotkeys and work out mechanics. Give SC2 another 8 years and 2 expansions and i get the feeling that the feel of the game will be more worked out as well, which is the general feel i am getting from the majority of posters.

Tldr: The Op was poorly implemented because SC2 is no where mature as BW yet. Time will tell.

another give it 10 more years to be a good game? i wonder how many times ive read this, the sad thing is that ppl dont realize that this statement is wrong.

personally I do feel like we should give it time because we can't really judge and unfinished product,but at the same time I feel that its not going to make that much of a difference because the way the design of the game is going.

i agree with give it time but, i cant help but feel weird about this kind of posts, i mean come on the guy doesnt even know when bw was released, if u gonna post in the bw forum at least get your facts right if u gonna give a statement like this, (it may sound rude but i dont know to put it different) and most sc2 ppl assume that bw has been patched countless times thought his 13 years, when in fact the last balance patch was in 2001-05-18, the following were just bug fixes and alike. also at this point, i mean in terms of release date wise, we didnt even had the replay function at this point ! which also came with the 1.08 Patch in 2001-05-18, this should be kind of sticky thing ahah

, i mean if they gonna say "bw had 10+ years to balance ! give sc2 time!" they are mixing this up, because race balance and game development through years of playing are different things

But at the same time vanilla SC had hilariously bad balance and play and Brood War went on to change that.

I'm pretty sure Blizzard already had the expansion done before the original game was released, just like with diablo 2 and its expansion so it's not like they unfucked the game with anything besides...3? balance patches. The expansions for sc2 are being tacked onto an already finished product that had to be semi balanced in its form so it could stand on its own for the 2+ years until the next expansion. How many Balance patches did sc2 have already, anyway? it's got to be like 100 -.- .(yes I included beta, where the players did blizzards job for them).

HaFnium

United Kingdom1074 Posts

January 27 2012 19:51 GMT

#152

I have played sc2 beta and first month.. Was free for 1 month in my place. But the price is just too steep for me, especially if you consider the expansion. I think the majority of the bw posters here have played some sc2. Geez I remember how hyped up we were and now

ArcTimes

Peru269 Posts

January 27 2012 19:53 GMT

#153

On January 27 2012 18:51 corumjhaelen wrote:
You should play more peruvian zergs...
And personnally, as a D level zerg, Ifeel like I've died to attacks at every timing possible from the moment terran can build marine/toss can build zealot until the lategame, and I haven't played that many games...
No idea how you play midgame tvz too oO
As for sc2, if you don't mind the price, I'd advise to play some games. Not really for your reasons though.

haha yes, i hate peruvian zergs

fabiano

Brazil4644 Posts

January 27 2012 20:06 GMT

#154

On January 28 2012 04:53 ArcTimes wrote:

Show nested quote +

haha yes, i hate peruvian zergs

seriously, whats up with zergs over there man :x

amazingxkcd

GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts

January 27 2012 20:25 GMT

#155

On January 28 2012 04:53 ArcTimes wrote:

Show nested quote +

haha yes, i hate peruvian zergs

tell me about those peruvian zergs :/

puppykiller

United States3130 Posts

January 27 2012 20:30 GMT

#156

howbout try a little sc2?

Eywa-

Canada4876 Posts

January 27 2012 20:42 GMT

#157

Tried some starcraft 2, quit when I lost to 1 marauder + 1 marine... 2 Zealots and a Stalker. I may have enjoyed it more if it were balanced enough to not be played on 2 player maps, because I hate 2 player maps even in BW... Well, not that I hate them, but I hate playing ladder on them.

mburke05

United States130 Posts

January 27 2012 20:48 GMT

#158

i played sc2 from beta until about 2 months ago, and have been playing broodwar since.

don't plan on playing sc2 until the hots beta comes out and likely will just have a cursory look to see if its changed signifigantly, if not prob just gna keep playing broodwar. just more fun i guess, and i dont buy the whole "esports" "progamer" movement that sc2 people throw around all the time.

i play the games bc a) theyre fun and b) they make me think and act in a competitive manner. sc2 didnt really do either unfortunately, hopefully blizz makes some changes.

taitanik

Latvia231 Posts

January 27 2012 20:53 GMT

#159

theres no such thing like easy game theres only easy opponent , the game is as hard as opponent makes it to be.