EPTedit: I wouldn't fully agree with what you wrote on scouting. As someone who transitioned from sc2 to bw I found bw forced me to actively search out the map more because of the lack of xel-naga towers and unit vision is greatly reduced (lings and scourge can barely see a few feet away from them). The map is all blacked out and expansions tend to pop up in random places. The centre is also more open making it harder to control lanes and see things coming.
Everybody should play a little SC2 - Page 10
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L3gendary
Canada1470 Posts
edit: I wouldn't fully agree with what you wrote on scouting. As someone who transitioned from sc2 to bw I found bw forced me to actively search out the map more because of the lack of xel-naga towers and unit vision is greatly reduced (lings and scourge can barely see a few feet away from them). The map is all blacked out and expansions tend to pop up in random places. The centre is also more open making it harder to control lanes and see things coming. | ||
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whatusername
Canada1181 Posts
On January 28 2012 07:35 Epoch wrote: So much distaste for sc2 here. Both sc2, and sc:bw are great games. If sc2 is good enough for fucking Nada, Julyzerg, and Slayersboxer then it's good enough for you. It's fine if you don't like it. But none of you are too good for the game. Actually they were kind of washed up by the time they entered SC2 so.............................. | ||
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MK4512
Canada938 Posts
On January 28 2012 11:50 whatusername wrote: Actually they were kind of washed up by the time they entered SC2 so.............................. Who the fuck cares if they're washed up or not. If they think it has strategic depth, than it fucking has strategic depth. I'm so suprised people turn so quickly. | ||
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Phyrigian
New Zealand1332 Posts
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scaban84
United States1080 Posts
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nakedsurfer
Canada500 Posts
Also with all the hype Sc2 had, I think the expectations of some(or most) BW players was initially too high. I would say try Sc2 but keep in mind that Sc2 is not like the game you've been playing for 10+ years and wasn't meant to be like that game as Dustin Browder has previously stated. | ||
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Keyboard Warrior
United States1178 Posts
Seriously, edit the OP and make better arguments if you even want to be listened to. | ||
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Zergneedsfood
United States10671 Posts
The reason we hang here is because we've tried it and felt like the experience wasn't really all that worth it. | ||
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Hinanawi
United States2250 Posts
The one thing I really don't understand is how SC2 managed to create a poorer UMS experience than Battle.net provided BW players over a decade ago. If your map isn't on the first two pages, good luck ever filling a game on it. Where is the Kyprion Pact RPG of SC2? Buried on page 200 somewhere probably, without a single game played on it. | ||
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Gao Xi
Hong Kong5178 Posts
On January 28 2012 12:55 Zergneedsfood wrote: I think it's fair to say that most BW players have played SC2. The reason we hang here is because we've tried it and felt like the experience wasn't really all that worth it. I agree with this sentiment. Not only that though, but the money poured into it that we will never get back. | ||
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Norada
China482 Posts
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Ribbon
United States5278 Posts
Plus, the easier mechanics help you learn some parts of "Starcraft", and then you can go back to BW in a better place to improve your mechanics (though, even in BW, you don't really need 300 APM at a D/D+ level). It helped me focus on more core things then "if I attack with my first dragoon, I can force a repair until his tanks come out, like Bisu does!". I did a lot of that when I started BW, and it was a complete waste of time better spent learning to make units out of my buildings and not get supply blocked. But, beyond that.....I like SC2 and think it's fun in its own right, but it's almost completely useless at getting from D+ to C-. | ||
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Sawamura
Malaysia7602 Posts
On January 28 2012 12:08 MK4512 wrote: Who the fuck cares if they're washed up or not. If they think it has strategic depth, than it fucking has strategic depth. I'm so suprised people turn so quickly. You sound really angry to be honest  Epoch So much distaste for sc2 here. Both sc2, and sc:bw are great games. If sc2 is good enough for fucking Nada, Julyzerg, and Slayersboxer then it's good enough for you. It's fine if you don't like it. But none of you are too good for the game. Woh what's with the *insert pro names * and them dictating what games should I play as a gamer . I will play what games I want, I wont blindly follow sc2 just because there were my previous heroes in broodwar . I will wish them luck, but don't expect me to enjoy watching sc2 like I do for broodwar. User was warned for this post | ||
]343[
United States10328 Posts
On January 28 2012 01:20 SerpentFlame wrote: I don't understand half the comments in this thread. The OP had a thoughtful post, and of course people are free to correct misconceptions. Yet over half the comments in this thread take offense things the OP never said: for instance, he never said SC2 was superior (and certainly didn't come across that way to me), and he never said that the skill required to play SC2 was higher (though both Julyzerg and BoxeR did say this). It seems like the OP just tried to draw some contrasts in a meaningful way, and of course, I'm sure he'd invite correction of his factual mistakes. And somehow a lot of posters started getting defensive? The reflexive nature of a lot of these comments makes me wonder whether some posters here have really given SC2 the chance that the OP advocates. As a D+ BW player who has never tried SC2 beyond the beta, I'm certainly more inclined to try SC2 after reading this. And for those of you who said "I tried SC2 and it just wasn't as good", how far did you guys go and what levels did you play against? Since a lot of these comments are along the lines of "No you're wrong, because you haven't played A level people", but how many of you have played A level SC2 people....? I agree with this. The OP is making a perfectly reasonable suggestion, though backed up by sort of questionable evidence. I guess people are more concerned with being "right" than "well-intentioned," however... though the upshot is that some people actually gave great reasons as to why BW might be more enjoyable than SC2. I do think, however, that what really turns BW people off about SC2 is the name "Starcraft." It's expected to be familiar, to require the same skill set, offer the same challenges... and in some of these regards, it doesn't quite match up. Yet for some reason, SC2 is somehow sucking the life out of the pro BW scene, precisely because of the name "Starcraft." Many players can't really compete at the top level of BW, so they try a younger game where it's more likely that one can reach an elite level. And what better game to try than the "sequel" to BW? The reason they have a better chance is because the skill gap between "good" (high Masters/GM players) and "pro" players is smaller than it was in BW, and because they have a wider variety of all-ins that automatically win against certain builds. So more "decent" (C/C+ and above) players from BW have taken to SC2, where they feel they have a better chance at going toe-to-toe with players against whom they previously had basically no hope of winning. Lower-level ("casual") players have switched due to the friendlier UI, reduced physical stress, and shinier graphics (though some may have been attracted to the reduced skill gap as well.) Therefore, a good chunk of bottom-95% players have switched, as have a very large majority of top-5% but not top-0.5% players, severely weakening the pro scene. This phenomenon is understandably agitating us BW fans a lot, so many BW fans are quite hostile to anything pro-SC2 posted in the BW forums. All that being said, many of those who frequent the BW forum (and who are attacking the OP) are those who have 1) not seriously tried out SC2 [I'd fall into this category, though I don't think my opinions are completely uninformed considering how much damn time I spend on this site...], or 2) tried SC2 briefly ("during the beta") but didn't like it [though how is this different from those SC2 players who tried BW and found it "unplayable"?]. I think these people should, in fact, try playing SC2 for a while--as just another game. Treat it as if you were playing C&C or AOE (*); SC2 seems like a decent (and maybe fun?) game, despite all its shortcomings, and can actually be played competitively. But that's the point the OP is trying to make (**). I'm starting to take this viewpoint myself, though coughing up the money to buy SC2 is a different story... maybe I can borrow a friend's account  Of course, there are (also many of) those who have played SC2 seriously and didn't like it. That's perfectly reasonable, but should you really discourage others from trying out a new game? It's not that your opinions aren't welcome (they're often quite enlightening, actually); but I think a lot of hatred toward SC2 is a bit over the top, even if fueled by how SC2 is killing our beautiful game. (*) The problem with treating SC2 like "just another new game," however, is that... well, our RTS tastes are molded by BW, and we can't really treat playing SC2 like "playing Minecraft" or "playing Skyrim"--we have preconceptions about RTS and automatically compare any RTS to BW, and we have qualms about the competitive nature of this game-that-is-a-little-like-BW-but-actually-isn't. That's why I compared it to some famous RTS games, though arguably they're not very apt comparisons. (**) On second thought, this statement is false. SC2 likely won't help much with BW at all unless you're a D- player. But I still think SC2 shouldn't just be summarily ignored by BW players. | ||
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Jurassic
Hungary79 Posts
On January 28 2012 13:02 Hinanawi wrote: I think we've all been there, done that. Brood War is a legend, SC2 is a poorly designed cashgrab unworthy of the name 'Starcraft', supported by zealots with religious fervor for something they call 'ESPORTS' (which apparently is about supporting any competitive game, no matter how bad it is, because it's a video game). The one thing I really don't understand is how SC2 managed to create a poorer UMS experience than Battle.net provided BW players over a decade ago. If your map isn't on the first two pages, good luck ever filling a game on it. Where is the Kyprion Pact RPG of SC2? Buried on page 200 somewhere probably, without a single game played on it. I completely agree that the UMS system is terrible, and they even patched it... But the elitist nonsense you wrote in the first half of your post really isn't needed here. | ||
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Arco
United States2090 Posts
On January 28 2012 11:50 whatusername wrote: Actually they were kind of washed up by the time they entered SC2 so.............................. What does that make you? | ||
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
I don't necessarily think that the game has to have a large player base to be a successful esport, but BW is much better than SC2 is in terms of watching the game. | ||
hellbound
United Kingdom2242 Posts
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Hundisilm
Estonia99 Posts
On January 28 2012 20:32 hellbound wrote: Can't play what I don't own There should actually be a starter edition (free) for SC2 where you can play custom games on a couple of maps. As the matchmaking system isn't working you'd probably need a Friend or two as well. I'm guessing most people who are happy with their current game probably aren't going to switch another game (either from BW to SC2 or the other way around). Neither is that significantly better than the other to justify a switch, unless one is already inclined to try something new for one reason or another. Might be fun to occasionally relax and mess about though. | ||
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Alex)
Scotland263 Posts
On January 28 2012 12:55 Zergneedsfood wrote: I think it's fair to say that most BW players have played SC2. The reason we hang here is because we've tried it and felt like the experience wasn't really all that worth it. But the real question is did you play it when the game came out? or in beta? because back then the game was shit but right now its alot better. Thats my whole problem with this bw vs sc2 is most bw players played a few games when it was in beta or when it just came out and the game was bad back then. Play it now or watch a few vods and you can see the game is alot better. | ||
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