Thought Electric Circuit was Circuit Breaker for a second. Not really much to go on, but I hope these aren't the maps all the P players were complaining about.
Couldn't they have gone for more tileset variety? Three twilight maps seems a bit heavy. Wonder which maps they will be keeping from the previous seasons as well.
On November 12 2011 13:56 setzer wrote: Couldn't they have gone for more tileset variety? Three twilight maps seems a bit heavy. Wonder which maps they will be keeping from the previous seasons as well.
It has been said Snow hurts the progamers' eyes too much because they play for hours and hours in the bright terrain. El Nino turned into Great Barrier Reef because El Nino was snow and people complained so they had no choice. Another reason is that it is very hard to make terrain on certain tilesets. Ashworld is a lot harder compared to Twilight Jungle and Badlands
On November 12 2011 13:28 konadora wrote: According to a rumor on fomos, these were some maps that were in the nomination pool, but idk which one made it or not.
On November 12 2011 13:32 BLinD-RawR wrote: thanks for the images kona!
they're just nomination maps (according to rumor) lol, not sure if any one of them made the cut
comparing the specs and images though, only "sniper ridge" seems to be a valid one (the 4 player jungle map)
but the image doesnt fit the name >_>
Well, if you look at it again maybe they meant the fact that each persons main has a cliff to the enemies third.
That and if the map gets split down the middle, say 12 to 6 oclock, if blue decides he wants yellows third, then red only has to use that ridge to snipe out workers.
Just noticed another thing that might mean its the same map, I dont think effects the other cross position spawns, if its cross positions with blue vs pink however, those ridges are wide open for the enemy to set up shop for taking out third base mining.
I guess that is why those paths to the naturals are there that way, since its feasible that can happen to anyone its something that can keep your economy in hold until you clean up that sniper ridge.
so the third base is being stared down by the ridge, as well as it being the most forward exit.
oh nice, the ridge acts as an alternate exit if the situation and spawn locations arise. so far this map looks like it can be both fun and irritating, blue storm/lost temple irritating :D fUU. (me P user)
On November 12 2011 13:56 setzer wrote: Couldn't they have gone for more tileset variety? Three twilight maps seems a bit heavy. Wonder which maps they will be keeping from the previous seasons as well.
It has been said Snow hurts the progamers' eyes too much because they play for hours and hours in the bright terrain. El Nino turned into Great Barrier Reef because El Nino was snow and people complained so they had no choice. Another reason is that it is very hard to make terrain on certain tilesets. Ashworld is a lot harder compared to Twilight Jungle and Badlands
Depends on what map they keep but usually there is always a badlands tileset oftentimes a desert one. I won't care in the end if the maps end up being good but it is always nice to have a little more variety.
The last Char map was Outsider right?? Char Tileset is really awesome!~~ It gives you that alien feeling with the sense of urgency because the world is a hell hole and the only one who wins gets to leave the planet
Maps that are easiest to make (more tileset = better deco, easier reverse ramps, etc) Jungle -> Twilight -> Space -> Desert/Badlands -> Snow -> Ashworld
and
On November 12 2011 13:56 setzer wrote: Couldn't they have gone for more tileset variety? Three twilight maps seems a bit heavy. Wonder which maps they will be keeping from the previous seasons as well.
The last Char map was Outsider right?? Char Tileset is really awesome!~~ It gives you that alien feeling with the sense of urgency because the world is a hell hole and the only one who wins gets to leave the planet
i love all the tilesets, i like the snow one but its not used that much
well if the top left map is sniper ridge, it looks rather standard. The only important thing I see is that the thirds have unusually large chokes. That is kind of offset for terran because they can float there very easily, so I think it will hurt protoss most in PvZ.
Some of those nomination maps look pretty crazy though. The center left one looks like matchpoint crossed with monte cristo on steroids.
The last Char map was Outsider right?? Char Tileset is really awesome!~~ It gives you that alien feeling with the sense of urgency because the world is a hell hole and the only one who wins gets to leave the planet
i love all the tilesets, i like the snow one but its not used that much
The last snow map was Tau Cross .. The game I remember well was Idra's 1st televised game was played @ Tau Cross .. lol
The last Char map was Outsider right?? Char Tileset is really awesome!~~ It gives you that alien feeling with the sense of urgency because the world is a hell hole and the only one who wins gets to leave the planet
i love all the tilesets, i like the snow one but its not used that much
The last snow map was Tau Cross .. The game I remember well was Idra's 1st televised game was played @ Tau Cross .. lol
They removed snow maps because of the high contrast. Hurt the gamer's eyes. :D
The last Char map was Outsider right?? Char Tileset is really awesome!~~ It gives you that alien feeling with the sense of urgency because the world is a hell hole and the only one who wins gets to leave the planet
i love all the tilesets, i like the snow one but its not used that much
The last snow map was Tau Cross .. The game I remember well was Idra's 1st televised game was played @ Tau Cross .. lol
They removed snow maps because of the high contrast. Hurt the gamer's eyes. :D
If it's mainly dirt grass and water, it's still largely acceptable (tau cross, battle royale, etc)
On November 12 2011 13:28 konadora wrote: According to a rumor on fomos, these were some maps that were in the nomination pool, but idk which one made it or not.
On November 12 2011 13:28 konadora wrote: According to a rumor on fomos, these were some maps that were in the nomination pool, but idk which one made it or not.
On November 12 2011 13:28 konadora wrote: According to a rumor on fomos, these were some maps that were in the nomination pool, but idk which one made it or not.
THESE ARE NOMINATED MAPS (ACCORDING TO RUMORS), NONE ARE CONFIRMED
OH GOD. NOT THIS PICTURE AGAIN.
I saw this on dcinside few days ago, with the title 'New Proleague Maps'
Why didn't I post this map picture? Cause I presumed was a troll post, with fake map names to piss off Bisu fans. '코랜드파일날' I still it's a troll post, given when the thread showed up on dcinside (3~4 days ago) with no official notice from KeSPA, though the article that you saw kona states that it's an official statement from KeSPA.
On November 12 2011 13:28 konadora wrote: According to a rumor on fomos, these were some maps that were in the nomination pool, but idk which one made it or not.
On November 12 2011 13:28 konadora wrote: According to a rumor on fomos, these were some maps that were in the nomination pool, but idk which one made it or not.
On November 12 2011 15:38 supernovamaniac wrote: I'm still investigating, but I'm going to say 'No' at the moment unless the map name was changed in last few days.
On November 12 2011 15:38 supernovamaniac wrote: I'm still investigating, but I'm going to say 'No' at the moment unless the map name was changed in last few days.
On November 12 2011 13:28 konadora wrote: According to a rumor on fomos, these were some maps that were in the nomination pool, but idk which one made it or not.
A little of topic here, but does anyone know what happened with www.intothemap.com site? I cant open it with any browser for like a month or 2. Is it down or closed or did they changed the adress ? Konadora or anyone inside the korean stuff pls shed some light on this. I like the site - many good korean non pro maps + all pro maps. Thanks.
On November 12 2011 21:19 stambe wrote: A little of topic here, but does anyone know what happened with www.intothemap.com site? I cant open it with any browser for like a month or 2. Is it down or closed or did they changed the adress ? Konadora or anyone inside the korean stuff pls shed some light on this. I like the site - many good korean non pro maps + all pro maps. Thanks.
On November 13 2011 00:33 Crisium wrote: Remember the Protoss meeting about most of the tanks being anti-Toss? I'd say 4 of those fit that description.
... I had always thought tanks were supposed to be anti-toss in a PvT...
The last Char map was Outsider right?? Char Tileset is really awesome!~~ It gives you that alien feeling with the sense of urgency because the world is a hell hole and the only one who wins gets to leave the planet
i love all the tilesets, i like the snow one but its not used that much
Yeah snow one is great. For at least one reason: it has the greenest grass. As well as well saturated brown textures and bridge models. Because of that, it brings that Warcraft vibe to the games, which rocks. And if snow areas used sparingly, progamers should be able to handle it, right?
The last Char map was Outsider right?? Char Tileset is really awesome!~~ It gives you that alien feeling with the sense of urgency because the world is a hell hole and the only one who wins gets to leave the planet
i love all the tilesets, i like the snow one but its not used that much
Yeah snow one is great. For at least one reason: it has the greenest grass. As well as well saturated brown textures and bridge models. Because of that, it brings that Warcraft vibe to the games, which rocks. And if snow areas used sparingly, progamers should be able to handle it, right?
Why use the snow at all when the greens, browns, and blues are so vivid and wonderful?
The last Char map was Outsider right?? Char Tileset is really awesome!~~ It gives you that alien feeling with the sense of urgency because the world is a hell hole and the only one who wins gets to leave the planet
i love all the tilesets, i like the snow one but its not used that much
The last snow map was Tau Cross .. The game I remember well was Idra's 1st televised game was played @ Tau Cross .. lol
On November 12 2011 14:19 konadora wrote: Maps that are easiest to make (more tileset = better deco, easier reverse ramps, etc) Jungle -> Twilight -> Space -> Desert/Badlands -> Snow -> Ashworld
On November 12 2011 13:56 setzer wrote: Couldn't they have gone for more tileset variety? Three twilight maps seems a bit heavy. Wonder which maps they will be keeping from the previous seasons as well.
they're not keeping any maps from previous season
I find this really weird because then thats only 6 maps for a Bo7 format ... (they are keeping it Bo7 right?)
On November 12 2011 14:19 konadora wrote: Maps that are easiest to make (more tileset = better deco, easier reverse ramps, etc) Jungle -> Twilight -> Space -> Desert/Badlands -> Snow -> Ashworld
and
On November 12 2011 13:56 setzer wrote: Couldn't they have gone for more tileset variety? Three twilight maps seems a bit heavy. Wonder which maps they will be keeping from the previous seasons as well.
they're not keeping any maps from previous season
I find this really weird because then thats only 6 maps for a Bo7 format ... (they are keeping it Bo7 right?)
maybe they'll reuse one of the maps for the ace match... idk but i remember kespa announcing specifically that they wont reuse old maps
On November 12 2011 14:19 konadora wrote: Maps that are easiest to make (more tileset = better deco, easier reverse ramps, etc) Jungle -> Twilight -> Space -> Desert/Badlands -> Snow -> Ashworld
and
On November 12 2011 13:56 setzer wrote: Couldn't they have gone for more tileset variety? Three twilight maps seems a bit heavy. Wonder which maps they will be keeping from the previous seasons as well.
they're not keeping any maps from previous season
I find this really weird because then thats only 6 maps for a Bo7 format ... (they are keeping it Bo7 right?)
worst case scenario: one is reserved for sc2..............
On November 12 2011 13:32 BLinD-RawR wrote: thanks for the images kona!
they're just nomination maps (according to rumor) lol, not sure if any one of them made the cut
comparing the specs and images though, only "sniper ridge" seems to be a valid one (the 4 player jungle map)
but the image doesnt fit the name >_>
Well, if you look at it again maybe they meant the fact that each persons main has a cliff to the enemies third.
That and if the map gets split down the middle, say 12 to 6 oclock, if red wants yellows third, then red only has to use that ridge to snipe out workers.
Just noticed another thing that might mean its the same map, I dont think effects the other cross position spawns, if its cross positions with blue vs pink however, those ridges are wide open for the enemy to set up shop for taking out third base mining.
so the third base is being stared down by the ridge, as well as it being the most forward exit.
oh nice, the ridge acts as an alternate exit if the situation and spawn locations arise. so far this map looks like it can be both fun and irritating (me being protoss).
hurry up Nov.19!
i really do think that this is the sniper ridge map, take a look at what i came up with.
On November 13 2011 14:52 Elefanto wrote: Still sad that we're never going to see Fighting Spirit again
Oh come on man.. you can watch that map on fish gosus' restreams until you barf.. its like wanting to see python back, when its so out played. Its not like they only played a few games on FS, it has a ton of pro games.
On November 13 2011 14:52 Elefanto wrote: Still sad that we're never going to see Fighting Spirit again
Oh come on man.. you can watch that map on fish gosus' restreams until you barf.. its like wanting to see python back, when its so out played. Its not like they only played a few games on FS, it has a ton of pro games.
So true- you want to see games on FS? Just search the map on nevake, and you'll get as much as you want, and probably more. Anyhow, it's not like you have to stop playing it as people will always join a FS match. It's my fallback for if people aren't joining ^^
On November 12 2011 13:32 BLinD-RawR wrote: thanks for the images kona!
they're just nomination maps (according to rumor) lol, not sure if any one of them made the cut
comparing the specs and images though, only "sniper ridge" seems to be a valid one (the 4 player jungle map)
but the image doesnt fit the name >_>
Well, if you look at it again maybe they meant the fact that each persons main has a cliff to the enemies third.
That and if the map gets split down the middle, say 12 to 6 oclock, if red wants yellows third, then red only has to use that ridge to snipe out workers.
Just noticed another thing that might mean its the same map, I dont think effects the other cross position spawns, if its cross positions with blue vs pink however, those ridges are wide open for the enemy to set up shop for taking out third base mining.
so the third base is being stared down by the ridge, as well as it being the most forward exit.
oh nice, the ridge acts as an alternate exit if the situation and spawn locations arise. so far this map looks like it can be both fun and irritating (me being protoss).
hurry up Nov.19!
i really do think that this is the sniper ridge map, take a look at what i came up with.
Am I seeing correctly or are there 2 ramps into main?
On November 12 2011 13:32 BLinD-RawR wrote: thanks for the images kona!
they're just nomination maps (according to rumor) lol, not sure if any one of them made the cut
comparing the specs and images though, only "sniper ridge" seems to be a valid one (the 4 player jungle map)
but the image doesnt fit the name >_>
Well, if you look at it again maybe they meant the fact that each persons main has a cliff to the enemies third.
That and if the map gets split down the middle, say 12 to 6 oclock, if red wants yellows third, then red only has to use that ridge to snipe out workers.
Just noticed another thing that might mean its the same map, I dont think effects the other cross position spawns, if its cross positions with blue vs pink however, those ridges are wide open for the enemy to set up shop for taking out third base mining.
so the third base is being stared down by the ridge, as well as it being the most forward exit.
oh nice, the ridge acts as an alternate exit if the situation and spawn locations arise. so far this map looks like it can be both fun and irritating (me being protoss).
hurry up Nov.19!
i really do think that this is the sniper ridge map, take a look at what i came up with.
Am I seeing correctly or are there 2 ramps into main?
Yeah, two ramps into the main. Three after you take out the temple
Can't wait to actually see them. It's strange to me though how they're replacing so much maps. Is this normal for PL and I just didn't notice it before?
On November 13 2011 14:52 Elefanto wrote: Still sad that we're never going to see Fighting Spirit again
I will sacrifice FS willingly, as long as we never see shitfinder ever again
What man, Pathfinder has produced incredibly exciting games. And it isn't a Proleague map anyways.
yeah i wasnt sure what he was talking about, pathfinder is a OSL map...
I know it was an OSL map, and if you exclude Jangbi v Fantasy, I'm not convinced it was a good map. Pathfinder is probably my least favorite map they've put out in a long time.
I wasn't necessarily correlating Pathfinder to PL or w/e, just expressing my extreme distaste for the map by saying I would give up the most balanced and epic map for it to go away :p
If there is an issue with the map, I am sure kespa will either give a new version or completely revamp it. I wish we could see maps that have all sorts of neutral buildings or weird terrains for funsies. Having the standard base with a single ramp down to the natural made all the recent games kinda stale.
On November 14 2011 02:40 EffectS wrote: Can't wait to actually see them. It's strange to me though how they're replacing so much maps. Is this normal for PL and I just didn't notice it before?
it's probably just because it's a whole new season
Hmmm going to be interesting to see these maps, especially given the statements that the Tosses have been making about it being "Anti-toss" (Bisu/Stork/Jangbi).
Bisu said that there are many maps with neutral buildings in the middle, so I'll looking forward to seeing that. Unless is screws up AI like Monte Cristo..
Outlier! Perhaps one of the three twilights could have been another tileset but oh well... At least the maps look fairly interesting. TvT on Chain Reaction looks fun. And the pros can't be too happy about the lack of gas on Ground Zero.
Jade looks like one of the most basic maps ever -_-. Outlier will be an interesting map to play on once the backdoor temples get destroyed making for lots of.
On November 17 2011 14:41 sharkeyanti wrote: And the pros can't be too happy about the lack of gas on Ground Zero.
Not sure what you're talking about - every expo has gas (granted, the gas is hard to see on the ashworld tileset)
Also, I am always super-impressed whenever a mapper manages to make a good-looking 3p map that doesn't have a large amount of wasted space. Outsider was one of those maps, and it was awesome - let's see if Outlier can live up to its older brother.
On November 17 2011 14:41 sharkeyanti wrote: And the pros can't be too happy about the lack of gas on Ground Zero.
Not sure what you're talking about - every expo has gas (granted, the gas is hard to see on the ashworld tileset)
Also, I am always super-impressed whenever a mapper manages to make a good-looking 3p map that doesn't have a large amount of wasted space. Outsider was one of those maps, and it was awesome - let's see if Outlier can live up to its older brother.
Yep I was wrong as a wren, gotta get some new glasses!
Initial Reactions.. Chain Reaction: Interesting for the only 2 player map... Well see. Electric Circuit: looks like 4 player Medusa haha Ground Zero is like Grand Line without the 6 and 12. Could lead to some interesting macro games if spawns are corners or same side and some weird games if top or bottom. Tanks could have some fun on Outlier on the high ground in the mid if mined out Jade: we will see as well. Sniper Ridge: Well, sucks if you get contained... Reminds me of a 4 player HBR
Sniper Ridge looks fugly, I could have done a better job
Jade looks like a decent macro map, not bad.
Ground Zero screams TvZ late game imbalance, late mech will decimate zergs. T>>P imo.
Electric Circuit seems like it's gonna be very late game orientated, such an easy third gas :O Just hoping that pathing doesn't mess up too much.
I am totally digging Outlier. Such a sexy map. Might see some crazy cheeses as well (barracks lift, pylon jump -> proxy gateways, digging out minerals to sneak lings Destination-style, etc)
Chain reaction is such a wild deviation from their normal maps, I really love it. It discourages late game/macro games, has a huge flankable mid and so many alternative paths....
On November 17 2011 16:43 konadora wrote: Sniper Ridge looks fugly, I could have done a better job
Jade looks like a decent macro map, not bad.
Ground Zero screams TvZ late game imbalance, late mech will decimate zergs. T>>P imo.
Electric Circuit seems like it's gonna be very late game orientated, such an easy third gas :O Just hoping that pathing doesn't mess up too much.
I am totally digging Outlier. Such a sexy map. Might see some crazy cheeses as well (barracks lift, pylon jump -> proxy gateways, digging out minerals to sneak lings Destination-style, etc)
Chain reaction is such a wild deviation from their normal maps, I really love it. It discourages late game/macro games, has a huge flankable mid and so many alternative paths....
Overall, quite pleased with the map pool.
PROLEAGUE CAN'T START FAST ENOUGH
When the maps are available we should play so you can gay me with mech and I can respond with speedling allins ^______^.
Visually speaking the maps don't excite me. Electric circuit hurts my eyes, Sniper Ridge is too symmetrical and 3 of the 4 remaining maps are on twilight tileset. Feature wise the set looks pretty diverse so I'm sure there will be a healthy variety of strategies used. In the end all that matters is balance so hopefully Bisu and co., were just exaggerating when they said the maps were bad for protoss.
On November 17 2011 16:43 konadora wrote: Sniper Ridge looks fugly, I could have done a better job
Jade looks like a decent macro map, not bad.
Ground Zero screams TvZ late game imbalance, late mech will decimate zergs. T>>P imo.
Electric Circuit seems like it's gonna be very late game orientated, such an easy third gas :O Just hoping that pathing doesn't mess up too much.
I am totally digging Outlier. Such a sexy map. Might see some crazy cheeses as well (barracks lift, pylon jump -> proxy gateways, digging out minerals to sneak lings Destination-style, etc)
Chain reaction is such a wild deviation from their normal maps, I really love it. It discourages late game/macro games, has a huge flankable mid and so many alternative paths....
Overall, quite pleased with the map pool.
PROLEAGUE CAN'T START FAST ENOUGH
When the maps are available we should play so you can gay me with mech and I can respond with speedling allins ^______^.
i think everyone needs to right-click copy image url and then zoom in as much as possible with ctrl+ for zoom. then click the + to magnify to max, and view the maps.. slowly i might add.
edit: i think sniper ridge will be one of the favorites in the future. :S
I can see what Bisu was saying about not a lot of open space in the middle to move around units.. Nonetheless, I'm excited to see what kind of strategies the pros will use on these maps!
i'm kinda disappointed with the aesthetics though. maps like dante's peak SE, odd-eye, triathlon (notice they're all MSL maps) were beautiful yet produced some of the best games ever.
On November 17 2011 17:44 GhoSt[shield] wrote: Does anyone else only see a swastika in the middle of Sniper Ridge? This is a big change from "Shinhan Bear" and Protoss Plains.
yeah, I laughed when I first saw it. plainly it's not a sign associated with mass murder in the far east, but living in Germany it's just an... unexpected sight.
Nonetheless, I expect great games, Bisu, no excuses!!!
Chain Reaction really looks like what's it called... forgot the name, but it was this snow map with super close air distances. Electric Circuit is just Medusa for four players. Jade reminds me of Fighting Spirit.
I wonder how Sniper Ridge will fare, given the imagery that it contains, but other than that a new map pool is always a great thing to spice up the league. I wonder what new maps the OSL will have
On November 17 2011 17:44 GhoSt[shield] wrote: Does anyone else only see a swastika in the middle of Sniper Ridge? This is a big change from "Shinhan Bear" and Protoss Plains.
yeah, I laughed when I first saw it. plainly it's not a sign associated with mass murder in the far east, but living in Germany it's just an... unexpected sight.
Nonetheless, I expect great games, Bisu, no excuses!!!
in the east the reverse swastika is an ancient buddhist symbol and has been used as such way before adolf came and gave it an negative connotation.
yeah chain reaction and sniper ridge in particular look difficult for toss
I really like Electric Circuit though, I have a feeling it's going to become the new standard map. It's got potential for cheesy games, crazy strats, and epic macro games. Also the map has a lot of innate strategic potential with the Medusa-esque second entrance, backdoor min-only, easy 3 gas, choke points in the center, and Andromeda-esque side expansions.
On November 17 2011 18:10 Nikon wrote: Chain Reaction really looks like what's it called... forgot the name, but it was this snow map with super close air distances. Electric Circuit is just Medusa for four players. Jade reminds me of Fighting Spirit.
I wonder how Sniper Ridge will fare, given the imagery that it contains, but other than that a new map pool is always a great thing to spice up the league. I wonder what new maps the OSL will have
How is zerg player going to defend against some sort of 2rax openings against terran on chain reaction? It seems like there is too much space to defend with sunkens :S
On November 17 2011 17:44 GhoSt[shield] wrote: Does anyone else only see a swastika in the middle of Sniper Ridge? This is a big change from "Shinhan Bear" and Protoss Plains.
yeah, I laughed when I first saw it. plainly it's not a sign associated with mass murder in the far east, but living in Germany it's just an... unexpected sight.
Nonetheless, I expect great games, Bisu, no excuses!!!
in the east the reverse swastika is an ancient buddhist symbol and has been used as such way before adolf came and gave it an negative connotation.
yeah chain reaction and sniper ridge in particular look difficult for toss
I believe it was also a symbol used in some Roman armies, if I'm not mistake.
I'm hoping that these maps can produce some incredible games. That would help to alleviate a lot of misgivings and worries about the uhhh... second half of the year.
Some of them seem weird but I will look forward to play on all of them. Are there any download links yet? KeSPA's mapsite doesn't have anything up yet;/
On November 17 2011 19:29 Vuk_91 wrote: How is zerg player going to defend against some sort of 2rax openings against terran on chain reaction? It seems like there is too much space to defend with sunkens :S
Haha, the first two maps look weird awesome. I suspect that Zerg will have some problems with sniper ridge, cuz tanks can siege up on the high ground before the natural.
First two look awesome, this Earthattack guy looks like a really good mapmaker. The others seem like pretty standard macro maps for the most part (some interesting things as well). Also lol at the swastika on sniper ridge
For me: Chain Reaction = battle royal (expect zvz only and its removal after first round). Outlier - looks interesting, tanks will be good here. Electric Circuit - too many resources which basically means t>>z>>p>>t. Ground Zero - looks like FS, but again - more resources could lead to the pattern from above. Jade - looks good, and I see no problems with balance so far. Sniper Ridge - might be interesting, but too much noise I think. don't know how it will play out.
Overall I think I will like to play most on Jade. Simple maps are best for me.
Chain Reaction: My favourite map of the bunch. Looks a bit tight but expo layout is spread out. I want to play it. There's so much room for creativity and looks sooooooo fun.
Outlier: Crazy concept. Who cares if it's balanced or not since it's freakin awesome. Tiny rush paths and a circular expansion pattern. Ho-ly-crap.
Electric Circuit: 4 player Medusa.
Ground Zero: Standard 4 player macro map. More importantly, ASH TILESET!
Jade: Minimalist Byzantium. It might actually be a bit harder for T to secure a third, though with the tiny chokes and highground, it could be fine.
Sniper Ridge: Another standard macro map with the unfortunate sorta-Swastika. I love the ridges. I think they're an underused concept.
Jade will produce some intense games, but I don't think they will go beyond three bases often... I kinda don't know what to think about it, but it has some kind of mystery, leaving you wander, what a game will look like.
All others look great and promise great a season! And since there is sooo much twilight, maybe protoss will do well ^_^ En Taro Much!
Yeeees. Amazing. These maps look like they'll need some new builds, I'm very interested to see how the pros deal with them. Also nice potential for cheesy games too hahaha.
On November 17 2011 23:33 TehTemplar wrote: Sniper ridge has a giant nazi symbol in it. And there are a lot of geysers in all of these maps that require 4 workers to mine optimally.
more like a Buddhist symbol -_- looks like the mapmaker reworks the concept of Battle Royal and morph it into CR. Hope it doesnt turn out that bad
Ground Zero is the worst "pro" map I've seen since Demon's Forest. Electric Current and Sniper Ridge aren't much better. This looks more like an april fool's mappool than a serious one...
On November 17 2011 19:29 Vuk_91 wrote: How is zerg player going to defend against some sort of 2rax openings against terran on chain reaction? It seems like there is too much space to defend with sunkens :S
Why are people comparing Outlier to Outsider? Outsider is a 3-player map with a ramp from the main to a mineral-only third base. The tileset and "island: expansions are the only obvious similarities.
From a balance perspective, I can see why protoss are complaining about the maps. I feel like It's T>Z>P. overall.
But I really wish they're fairly balanced, because I can envision some crazy strategies in non-mirror matchups. And I'm glad they've done some zany things so it's not just your typical Circuit Breaker/Fighting Spirit balance but yawners. But my fear is that they turn into Raid Assault or Fortress type mirror facepalms.
On November 17 2011 19:29 Vuk_91 wrote: How is zerg player going to defend against some sort of 2rax openings against terran on chain reaction? It seems like there is too much space to defend with sunkens :S
He can defend by not going 12 hatch.
Ehh? Pool first openings are even weaker against 2rax. We had similar nat setup in the last MSL map too and 2 rax wasnt a problem there, in fact it will be easier to defend against sunkenbusters if you build your sunks on the edge of the highground so they have the height advantage over advancing troops
It just bugs me that there are 3 Twilight tile set maps. I know it's the easiest on the eyes, but 3/6, really? When we have 0 Desert and 0 Ice (can be done with little actual snow) and 0 Badlands. It just seems so repetitive and boring.
Can someone explain why P is going to have a hard time on these maps? Ground Zero looks T-favored, but besides that I can't see it. I'm only a D noob though, so I just wanted to hear from better players on why this map pool is supposed to be Protoss hell.
Edit: And even on Ground Zero, PvT looks like arbiter play would be really good. The middle ground is unbuildable, right? No Terran turret-pushes.
On the whole, I really like the looks of these maps, and especially for one thing: last season, while it produced some great maps, mostly was chock full of The Same Old Thing Redux. These maps, in contrast, are swinging for the fences in terms of design: 3 players, doodads, temples, unusual configurations, etc. It's probably a sign that OGN's saying, "What the hell, we're going to do what we always wanted to try anyway," but I like the feel overall.
That said... it's not the safest way to do things. Map-by-map, I'm much less enthusiastic:
Chain Reaction: by which we mean, "mutalisk reaction". Okay, it's not quite Battle Royale (air distance looks a touch longer, ground is a little shorter maybe, and unobstructed), but eh. It's a pretty map though - I hope it plays well.
Electric Circuit: Agh my eyes! Seriously, how are players going to be able to focus on that minimap? Other than that, I really like it: combines elements from Andromeda and Medusa, two classics.
Ground Zero: Because we need at least one standard boring map. Next!
Jade: Byzantium/Return of the King remix.
Outlier: Outsider meets Neo Requiem, with temples because Medusa was feeling left out. This honestly looks like one of the goofy-ass Blizzard maps from Ye Olden Dayes, only with Korean professionalism making it actually look nice. I have no idea what to think.
Sniper Ridge: Far and away the ugliest map in this group, and with probable positional imbalances due to the ridges, as well. The most interesting thing about this map is that denying a 3rd looks incredibly easy - and holding a third once secured almost equally easy. Between that and the ridges, this map screams "Terran imba": range > all. We'll see if I'm right.
Jade and GZ seem like they'll be good. EC too, although seriously it's like looking at a strobe light. Outlier and CR I'm dubious about, but I'll wait for the games. Sniper Ridge I'm calling now as "won't last", purely because of my aesthetic distate.
On November 18 2011 04:26 LegaCy_ wrote: All I could think about was Sniper Ridge looking like the Nazi sign lol.
This
And also Chain Reaction and Outlier are terrible for PvZ, Ground Zero is like GrandLine except it's Ashworld tileset. Electric circuit/Jade looks the more balanced maps.
I'm guessing the main reason for progamer protoss imba complaints is the general theme of these maps having 9 minerals at main, 7 minerals at nat. These map makers are up to their old games again of trying to force people to favour one base plays more heavily, which so far as I know has failed every time they've tried it in the past. Most likely everyone will still expand just as quickly as usual, and then blame the absurd nature of the map for their loss (I assume with good reason), but maybe this season I can witness a miracle.
On November 18 2011 06:21 zobz wrote: I'm guessing the main reason for progamer protoss imba complaints is the general theme of these maps having 9 minerals at main, 7 minerals at nat. These map makers are up to their old games again of trying to force people to favour one base plays more heavily, which so far as I know has failed every time they've tried it in the past. Most likely everyone will still expand just as quickly as usual, and then blame the absurd nature of the map for their loss (I assume with good reason), but maybe this season I can witness a miracle.
If they wanted to encourage 1-base play, then they should put 10 mineral patches in the main .. the biggest complaint by Protosses is the general cramped-ness of every map, making it difficult to engage the Terran Mech ball and Lurker/Swarm positions. Electric Circuit in particular looks very difficult for Protosses
lol at everyone who doesn't know where the swastika comes from these maps look interesting... I really need to play on em to understand them though, I'm not good at judging maps from the way they look
On November 18 2011 06:21 zobz wrote: I'm guessing the main reason for progamer protoss imba complaints is the general theme of these maps having 9 minerals at main, 7 minerals at nat. These map makers are up to their old games again of trying to force people to favour one base plays more heavily, which so far as I know has failed every time they've tried it in the past. Most likely everyone will still expand just as quickly as usual, and then blame the absurd nature of the map for their loss (I assume with good reason), but maybe this season I can witness a miracle.
FWIW Fighting Spirit is a 9/7 map too. As are HBR and Circuit Breaker. So I assume that's not the reason for the griping.
On November 18 2011 06:21 zobz wrote: I'm guessing the main reason for progamer protoss imba complaints is the general theme of these maps having 9 minerals at main, 7 minerals at nat. These map makers are up to their old games again of trying to force people to favour one base plays more heavily, which so far as I know has failed every time they've tried it in the past. Most likely everyone will still expand just as quickly as usual, and then blame the absurd nature of the map for their loss (I assume with good reason), but maybe this season I can witness a miracle.
If they wanted to encourage 1-base play, then they should put 10 mineral patches in the main .. the biggest complaint by Protosses is the general cramped-ness of every map, making it difficult to engage the Terran Mech ball and Lurker/Swarm positions. Electric Circuit in particular looks very difficult for Protosses
Indeed. I know I'm not a good player, but it seems so easy for terran to just inch forward with seige tanks and take another base. Until they seige all the way to their opponent. It seems to be built for the turtling.
On November 18 2011 06:21 zobz wrote: I'm guessing the main reason for progamer protoss imba complaints is the general theme of these maps having 9 minerals at main, 7 minerals at nat. These map makers are up to their old games again of trying to force people to favour one base plays more heavily, which so far as I know has failed every time they've tried it in the past. Most likely everyone will still expand just as quickly as usual, and then blame the absurd nature of the map for their loss (I assume with good reason), but maybe this season I can witness a miracle.
FWIW Fighting Spirit is a 9/7 map too. As are HBR and Circuit Breaker. So I assume that's not the reason for the griping.
Oh. Quite right. I really thought 7 minerals at nat was exceptionally little for some strange reason. I had no idea about fighting spirit.
The maps seems pretty interesting. If I had to guess, toss players would complain about the difficulty in taking safe 3rds on Outlier and Jade. Sniper ridge seems rather strong for tanks and lurkers with all of the small hills. Outlier seems just awful to fight tanks on, because of the small elongated paths, and the easy to access ledges in the middle. I hope to see the maps in action soon enough.
This is completely off-topic but holy shit someone fixed TeamLiquid!!!! Haven't been here much lately since no BW was on and I just noticed the sidebar settings button that lets you filter out all the SC2 crap and you can finally set the calendar to show only BW events. Now if only there was a sidebar option to show the PR once again I think my life would be complete.
Back on topic: I'll be very interested to see how these maps play out, especially Chain Reaction. I don't think it will be as Zerg imba as Battle Royal since you can't lock out ground movement as easily as on that map.
On November 18 2011 16:47 mnesthes wrote: Is it me or there is a Swastika in the last map ?
Yes it's a swastika, an ancient symbol used in countless cultures. No it isn't strictly a nazi symbol and please stop talking about swastikas. These are the maps, discus
On November 18 2011 06:21 zobz wrote: I'm guessing the main reason for progamer protoss imba complaints is the general theme of these maps having 9 minerals at main, 7 minerals at nat. These map makers are up to their old games again of trying to force people to favour one base plays more heavily, which so far as I know has failed every time they've tried it in the past. Most likely everyone will still expand just as quickly as usual, and then blame the absurd nature of the map for their loss (I assume with good reason), but maybe this season I can witness a miracle.
If they wanted to encourage 1-base play, then they should put 10 mineral patches in the main .. the biggest complaint by Protosses is the general cramped-ness of every map, making it difficult to engage the Terran Mech ball and Lurker/Swarm positions. Electric Circuit in particular looks very difficult for Protosses
Having MORE mineral patches will in turn be a significant disadvantage to zerg. Remember, P and T fully saturate their bases, meaning 11% more mineral patches makes their mineral income 11% bigger for their 2 base timing attacks. On the whole, that is a significant boos to their midgame timing attacks, and makes it tough for Z to handle them
On November 18 2011 06:21 zobz wrote: I'm guessing the main reason for progamer protoss imba complaints is the general theme of these maps having 9 minerals at main, 7 minerals at nat. These map makers are up to their old games again of trying to force people to favour one base plays more heavily, which so far as I know has failed every time they've tried it in the past. Most likely everyone will still expand just as quickly as usual, and then blame the absurd nature of the map for their loss (I assume with good reason), but maybe this season I can witness a miracle.
If they wanted to encourage 1-base play, then they should put 10 mineral patches in the main .. the biggest complaint by Protosses is the general cramped-ness of every map, making it difficult to engage the Terran Mech ball and Lurker/Swarm positions. Electric Circuit in particular looks very difficult for Protosses
Having MORE mineral patches will in turn be a significant disadvantage to zerg. Remember, P and T fully saturate their bases, meaning 11% more mineral patches makes their mineral income 11% bigger for their 2 base timing attacks. On the whole, that is a significant boos to their midgame timing attacks, and makes it tough for Z to handle them
Longinus is a great example of this. As stated in the God of the Battlefield article, the extra income allows a terran to have TWO timing attacks against Zerg: pre-muta and pre-defiler. Zerg has to hinder his own economy to try to survive a timing attack that might not even come.
Protoss is the race most affected by this, though. Progamers often say that one mineral patch makes a huge difference for Protoss. More mineral patches = better for protoss, generally.
On November 18 2011 06:21 zobz wrote: I'm guessing the main reason for progamer protoss imba complaints is the general theme of these maps having 9 minerals at main, 7 minerals at nat. These map makers are up to their old games again of trying to force people to favour one base plays more heavily, which so far as I know has failed every time they've tried it in the past. Most likely everyone will still expand just as quickly as usual, and then blame the absurd nature of the map for their loss (I assume with good reason), but maybe this season I can witness a miracle.
If they wanted to encourage 1-base play, then they should put 10 mineral patches in the main .. the biggest complaint by Protosses is the general cramped-ness of every map, making it difficult to engage the Terran Mech ball and Lurker/Swarm positions. Electric Circuit in particular looks very difficult for Protosses
Having MORE mineral patches will in turn be a significant disadvantage to zerg. Remember, P and T fully saturate their bases, meaning 11% more mineral patches makes their mineral income 11% bigger for their 2 base timing attacks. On the whole, that is a significant boos to their midgame timing attacks, and makes it tough for Z to handle them
Longinus is a great example of this. As stated in the God of the Battlefield article, the extra income allows a terran to have TWO timing attacks against Zerg: pre-muta and pre-defiler. Zerg has to hinder his own economy to try to survive a timing attack that might not even come.
Protoss is the race most affected by this, though. Progamers often say that one mineral patch makes a huge difference for Protoss. More mineral patches = better for protoss, generally.
of course, this is why I suggested increasing the mineral patch count, to offset the Zeg's natural advantage of the map due to map architecture and air rush distance. I especially remember the fiasco of low mineral patch count on Tears of the Protoss, which made it near impossible for Protoss to win any games on that map.
On November 18 2011 18:17 Kenpachi wrote: god damn it. the fake maps looked so good :< these look less interesting now that i saw those lol Outlier looks cool though o_o
Which fake maps? I haven't been keeping with sc stuff lately.
chain reaction looks like a very complex map. outlier will probably make terrans cry hard vs zerg. circuit breaker 2.0 will be the typical slugfest map. genericnoun-ridge is ugly imho.
On November 19 2011 06:59 wishbones wrote: oh c'mon I could not resist, lol.
does anyone remember if new maps become available before the actual season starts, or do they always wait until after?
I do not recall.
Yeah, good question. Could someone shed some light on that ? Cant wait to try the new maps, i mean if they postpone Proleague from 19th to 26th, at least the can cut us some slack and release the maps earlier for fans' enjoyment
On November 12 2011 13:28 konadora wrote: According to a rumor on fomos, these were some maps that were in the nomination pool, but idk which one made it or not.
THESE ARE NOMINATED MAPS (ACCORDING TO RUMORS), NONE ARE CONFIRMED
On November 18 2011 21:57 BLinD-RawR wrote: I just noticed that you can mineral walk on outlier to the expos blocked by the temples.
Also, probably not a big deal at all, but those expos on that map aren't symmetrical. The top base is left with both of outside expos closest to it having the geysers closest to their base. Not a big deal but I'm just a fan a symmetry haha
New maps made me think about design a bit, and i made my first map ever with the thought of ZvZ in mind. Could a map be designed so hive play was the suitable strategy? And just trying to keep everything else reasonably balanced at the same time.
I think the key would definitely be easy to defend mineral lines.. it's much easier to be safe when spores cover so well and you have highground to put sunks on if needed. What do you guys think, is it enough difference to allow safe tech, maybe so much that both Z's would do it? Also other matchups, i did think about all of them so don't need to point out anything too obvious like 12nexus and 14CC being very easy.
Also should note i did have alternate entrance to main with stacked mins blocking, it caused pathing issues. But would a backdoor be better or worse, does it need it?
Yeah i hadn't even though of hydra being better instead, but that kind of play does sacrifice map control/mobility. I tried playing some games but i don't know ZvZ in the first place, would be nice if anyone else wanted to give it a try though.
On November 20 2011 19:25 BroodWarHD wrote: well, karate i think already showed some innovation with his 4 hatch hydra+queens zvz timing attack, this kind of map could make it even more powerful
On November 18 2011 21:57 BLinD-RawR wrote: I just noticed that you can mineral walk on outlier to the expos blocked by the temples.
Also, probably not a big deal at all, but those expos on that map aren't symmetrical. The top base is left with both of outside expos closest to it having the geysers closest to their base. Not a big deal but I'm just a fan a symmetry haha
They do this because geysers to the top or to the left mine slightly faster than geysers placed at the bottom or to the right. If the mapper doesn't think the geyser position will affect balance that much, he'll break symmetry in favor of equal mining rates.
On November 21 2011 04:51 Release wrote: Map: Ground Zero
PvT: 0-100 (0%)
The position of the third gas really makes it easy for terran to defend against ground imo
to add to that it looks super easy to have a really good simcity for ZvP. yea I don't see protoss being used on that map much.
lolwat, Ground Zero is gonna be the map Protosses will be sent out the most. Like neobowman said, doesn't look really different than any other normal macro map
if anything, Electric Circuit or Sniper Ridge will be anti-Protoss maps.
Also OP should add a disclaimer about swastikas and their use in Asia, because too many ppl seem to not know it was used before the Nazis ...
I can't tell for sure from the pic but does it look like there are small high ground areas by the nats on Ground Zero? If there are, that just screams tank drops... Overall I'm not liking these maps. Always appears to be something that's favoring Terran in each map. But then again, I'm not all that good at determining map balance so I guess we'll just have to see how things play out.
On November 21 2011 10:24 Selth wrote: I can't tell for sure from the pic but does it look like there are small high ground areas by the nats on Ground Zero? If there are, that just screams tank drops...
On November 21 2011 04:51 Release wrote: Map: Ground Zero
PvT: 0-100 (0%)
The position of the third gas really makes it easy for terran to defend against ground imo
to add to that it looks super easy to have a really good simcity for ZvP. yea I don't see protoss being used on that map much.
lolwat, Ground Zero is gonna be the map Protosses will be sent out the most. Like neobowman said, doesn't look really different than any other normal macro map
if anything, Electric Circuit or Sniper Ridge will be anti-Protoss maps.
Also OP should add a disclaimer about swastikas and their use in Asia, because too many ppl seem to not know it was used before the Nazis ...
WE'LL SEE
WHERE PROTOSS ARE SENT OUT STATISTICALLY MORE OR NOT
THAN ON OTHER MAPS
also im THIS CLOSE to just recreating these maps myself in the editor lol
On November 21 2011 15:52 Ideas wrote: i wonder if you can hit the opposite expo at 6 and 12 oclock from the other side with a siege tank lol
Looking at the picture I want to say the gas is just out of reach of a siege tank. And I think the other gas blocks the spot that would have been close enough.
These are the weirdest maps I've ever seen. Especially the ones by Earthattack. I can't even begin to imagine how games will play out on those. Metagame shift? :D
Man, I really want the maps available. Gotta bash the computer a couple of times on these maps to be able to follow the games well. Especially since I can't speak Korean.
any B- and better who wants to practice on these maps? I am Protoss, B- high on iCCup and 1160 high on fish some while ago. just PM me, preferably with your MSN/AIM/Skype or w/e
Im not saying whether I think the maps are balanced or not. However, I will say this. There is a tendency that at the start of the season, Protoss always wins more. Towards the end of the season Terran wins more. This has been said by players such as Bisu.
You may also notice that generally Airforce Ace gets most of its wins at the start of the season and less as it progresses.
In the last 5 matches the teams sent out 21 Protosses, 17 Zergs and only 4 Terrans. The only Terran win of those was TvZ monster Light against ZvT victim hyvaa. Before that except for Airforce Ace the only Terrans getting sent out were Aces like Flash, Fantasy, Sea, Light, Baby and Bogus. KT doesn't send out Mind regularly and Leta didn't get to play against Khan.
Another thing to consider: the teams we lost this year (WeMade and OZ) were both Terran-Zerg teams with weak Protoss on the while. Mind went to KT but has barely been played; BaBy's with 8 and has been playing. Lomo, HiyA, and Midas retired.
EPT![[image loading]](http://www.fomos.kr/board/issue/1321506669_3.jpg)
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Ghost Path![[image loading]](http://www.klr650.net/forums/images/smilies/worthless.gif)
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