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ptrpb
Canada753 Posts
When it says pro-teams are considering picking up SC2 it probably means they're going to have divisions like WeMadeFOX did before they disbanded. This is good news for ESPORTS, everyone should be happy, but lots of people are hating and whining because OH NO STARCRAFT 2. If it gets added and you don't like it then don't watch it but shitting on a league for adding a game to help its expansion is just wrong, especially when we don't know the details. TL;DR. Everyone clam the duck down | ||
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Pelopidas
Canada225 Posts
It really irritates me that Blizzard has managed to astroturf a commercialized imitation of the eSports scene that sprung up spontaneously in Korea. By funding huge prize pools, and by using the name Starcraft, Blizzard managed to have the entire noncompetitive foreigner scene, many B teamers, and washed up pros switch to SC2. In my opinion many fans were duped into feeling like they were participating in something like the early days of Brood War, like they were blazing a trail for an eSports scene in the west. Instead it feels as if Blizzard is using the scene as a gigantic advertisement to sell more copies of SC2, while collecting a large percentage of tournament profits on the side. Blizzard, in attempt to parallel the way they were able to dominate the MMO genre with WoW, has created an RTS with its edges worn off, and have enriched their coffers, while gaining publicity, and recognition, with a competitive scene that attempts to parrot. To me the game is far too different from Brood War to be its true successor. Even so, I would be willing to accept and tolerate it as long as Brood War was left alone. Now, however, Blizzards tendrils have started to touch something I hold dear, I don't know what to do. It seems I am forced to sit idle while something I enjoy is torn apart in the name of Activision-Blizzard's bottom line. | ||
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Gann1
United States1578 Posts
On October 20 2011 06:01 Pelopidas wrote: Why is it so important that BW players switch to SC2? Why can't you SC2 fans just be happy that you get constant coverage of games from players all over the world? The Elephant in the Room. | ||
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Rasun
United States787 Posts
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Apollo_Shards
1210 Posts
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fabiano
Brazil4644 Posts
On October 20 2011 06:01 Pelopidas wrote: I played SC2 for a while but stopped once I realized that Blizzard was more concerned with the way casuals view the game than the actual game play experience. Now it seems that something I tried to get away from has chased me to my last refuge, and set it on fire. I just want BW to be left alone. Why is it so important that BW players switch to SC2? Why can't you SC2 fans just be happy that you get constant coverage of games from players all over the world? It really irritates me that Blizzard has managed to astroturf a commercialized imitation of the eSports scene that sprung up spontaneously in Korea. By funding huge prize pools, and by using the name Starcraft, Blizzard managed to have the entire noncompetitive foreigner scene, many B teamers, and washed up pros switch to SC2. In my opinion many fans were duped into feeling like they were participating in something like the early days of Brood War, like they were blazing a trail for an eSports scene in the west. Instead it feels as if Blizzard is using the scene as a gigantic advertisement to sell more copies of SC2, while collecting a large percentage of tournament profits on the side. Blizzard, in attempt to parallel the way they were able to dominate the MMO genre with WoW, has created an RTS with its edges worn off, and have enriched their coffers, while gaining publicity, and recognition, with a competitive scene that attempts to parrot. To me the game is far too different from Brood War to be its true successor. Even so, I would be willing to accept and tolerate it as long as Brood War was left alone. Now, however, Blizzards tendrils have started to touch something I hold dear, I don't know what to do. It seems I am forced to sit idle while something I enjoy is torn apart in the name of Activision-Blizzard's bottom line. Wow, great post. Thats exactly how I feel. Rightnow SC2 feels like a forced mimic to profit on the name of the game under the flag eSports... | ||
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Neurosis
United States893 Posts
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FairForever
Canada2392 Posts
On October 20 2011 06:01 Pelopidas wrote: I played SC2 for a while but stopped once I realized that Blizzard was more concerned with the way casuals view the game than the actual game play experience. Now it seems that something I tried to get away from has chased me to my last refuge, and set it on fire. I just want BW to be left alone. Why is it so important that BW players switch to SC2? Why can't you SC2 fans just be happy that you get constant coverage of games from players all over the world? It really irritates me that Blizzard has managed to astroturf a commercialized imitation of the eSports scene that sprung up spontaneously in Korea. By funding huge prize pools, and by using the name Starcraft, Blizzard managed to have the entire noncompetitive foreigner scene, many B teamers, and washed up pros switch to SC2. In my opinion many fans were duped into feeling like they were participating in something like the early days of Brood War, like they were blazing a trail for an eSports scene in the west. Instead it feels as if Blizzard is using the scene as a gigantic advertisement to sell more copies of SC2, while collecting a large percentage of tournament profits on the side. Blizzard, in attempt to parallel the way they were able to dominate the MMO genre with WoW, has created an RTS with its edges worn off, and have enriched their coffers, while gaining publicity, and recognition, with a competitive scene that attempts to parrot. To me the game is far too different from Brood War to be its true successor. Even so, I would be willing to accept and tolerate it as long as Brood War was left alone. Now, however, Blizzards tendrils have started to touch something I hold dear, I don't know what to do. It seems I am forced to sit idle while something I enjoy is torn apart in the name of Activision-Blizzard's bottom line. Yeah why would Blizzard not capitalize on a game they made by making a sequel? I mean, they were obviously making billions of dollars from having Brood War there, right? No? You can't blame Brood War, this was KeSPA's decision. While BW is still much more popular in Korea than SC2, I think sponsors are starting to realize that SC2 is the future (there was rumours going about that a lot of major sponsors didn't want to be the 8th team because they'd prefer to sponsor a SC2 team, particularly oGs or IM). There's no reason why they can't co-exist and have a great time though, at least for the next few years. With the lack of new talent coming into BW I wouldn't expect the community to last another 10 years, but there's no reason why it can't last another 5 and be very successful at that. | ||
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Ribbon
United States5278 Posts
Sort of. SC2 fans think that if big name BW players switch, they'll either fail (and thus SC2 fans won't be subjected to "LOL Zergbong SC2 is for scrubs") or succeed (in which case the games'll be better). The meme that SC2 players are playing...suboptimally...is something that gnaws at SC2 fans because it has a lot of truth to it (players get supply blocked, warp prism micro is pitiful even though there's no reason for it to be, overseers accumulate energy that could be used for changlings while hidden bases go unscouted for 10 minutes, etc etc etc). So there's a desire to see big name players switch so it can stop being a hypothetical. Also, trolls. Lots. of. Trolls. So many trolls. Trolls that should be reported and ignored. | ||
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Gann1
United States1578 Posts
On October 20 2011 06:05 Apollo_Shards wrote: How is this negative for BW? It's not, but it is negative for this forum since we get wonderful posts like this on every page: On October 20 2011 06:06 Neurosis wrote: Just imagine Jaedong, Flash and Bisu playing sc2. Finally we would see some truly revolutionary play. Also, someone said this earlier on in the thread. of course BW fans are on the defensive, because we've been marginalized by foreign tournaments and this very website ever since the release of SC2. We're used to bad news, so any news that comes we see the worst case scenario. | ||
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Boblion
France8043 Posts
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SpiZe
Canada3640 Posts
On October 20 2011 06:01 Pelopidas wrote: I played SC2 for a while but stopped once I realized that Blizzard was more concerned with the way casuals view the game than the actual game play experience. Now it seems that something I tried to get away from has chased me to my last refuge, and set it on fire. I just want BW to be left alone. Why is it so important that BW players switch to SC2? Why can't you SC2 fans just be happy that you get constant coverage of games from players all over the world? It really irritates me that Blizzard has managed to astroturf a commercialized imitation of the eSports scene that sprung up spontaneously in Korea. By funding huge prize pools, and by using the name Starcraft, Blizzard managed to have the entire noncompetitive foreigner scene, many B teamers, and washed up pros switch to SC2. In my opinion many fans were duped into feeling like they were participating in something like the early days of Brood War, like they were blazing a trail for an eSports scene in the west. Instead it feels as if Blizzard is using the scene as a gigantic advertisement to sell more copies of SC2, while collecting a large percentage of tournament profits on the side. Blizzard, in attempt to parallel the way they were able to dominate the MMO genre with WoW, has created an RTS with its edges worn off, and have enriched their coffers, while gaining publicity, and recognition, with a competitive scene that attempts to parrot. To me the game is far too different from Brood War to be its true successor. Even so, I would be willing to accept and tolerate it as long as Brood War was left alone. Now, however, Blizzards tendrils have started to touch something I hold dear, I don't know what to do. It seems I am forced to sit idle while something I enjoy is torn apart in the name of Activision-Blizzard's bottom line. How does it ruin BW in any way? The way I see it is a new SC2 team league with the name "Proleague" on it. I just don't get how it's going to get "torn apart" simply because there will be a SC2 branch that probably will be operated independantly from the BW branch. | ||
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ShadeR
Australia7535 Posts
If this does happen the missing 'X factor' will be clear for all to see. | ||
mustaju
Estonia4505 Posts
Nevertheless, I'll write my thoughts down: If the firms really do pick up players and start paying them salaries, I can see this meaning paycuts for the BW players in the current state of the economy. While SC2 star salaries will undoubtedly rise being sponsored by chaebols instead of chickenstands, the forecast for E-sports is still negative, and thus I see the teams making the decision to cut some salaries. Then again, Flash's salary got raised by a lot, so this might not be true. Still, it might be an exception to the very likely rule. When firms cut corners whereever possible, I do believe E-sports is one of the first to suffer. What should also be good for SC2 is that the teams will likely be structured in a more professional way, leading to stable contracts, more extensive talentscouting and better promotion thanks to the brands already being largely established. KT and SKT are such big names in the esports world, they ring a lot louder than "OGS" or "IM" to their native koreans. Then again, I see it backfiring for the foreign fans as well. The big companies that sponsor BW teams are very Korea-centric. The names SKT, KT, Woongjin, STX, and CJ are all big in Korea but they should have little to no interest in tiring their players with tournaments around the world. These firms are just not as interested as Razer and IBM to see their logos on shirts in the US or in Europe, since gaming is still very niche outside Korea and their products are also focused for the Korean market. SKT and KT are telecommunication firms, Woongjin is a chemical firm, STX is a transportation firm (but gains little more than brandrecognition from the exposure, it is said), and CJ is a food retail and mediacorporation that isn't too active in the West, to my knowledge. Thus, it only makes sense that they want the players to focus on the domestic league and promote the companies where they can actually benefit the most from it. Another negative side effect for SC2 would be that it would likely no longer have prime time exposure, which is still a lot more likely to remain the privilege of BW. For a while, at least. This is all presuming the scenes will be separate leagues which would be united under the KeSPA organization. I've never really understood why SC2 fans are so eager to have BW legends switch over. Sure, they would likely cause a huge shift in gameplay, but for a market as limited as E-sports, for every player that is added, another one fades into obscurity and thus out of E-sports. (God I hate that word). That's especially weird considering that SC2 is by their own admitance, WIP, which means that even though the expansions might improve it, they might also colossaly(see what I did there?) fuck it up(pardon my language). Putting it all on one card means possibly dooming everything and everyone associated with it. I would be astonished to see all these 14000 people watching SC2 7years after it's release, nevermind 12. Especially with DOTA 2 coming out, many will jump ship, and the tournaments will be less frequent and even more oriented towards the hardcore crowd. + Show Spoiler [Elitism] + It is my own belief that it will end up shallow thanks to the intrinsic values of it's gamedesign - It's supposed to be fast and hectic rather than straining and methodical, at least compared to it's predecessor. I watched with disbelief how the Kiwikaki vs. Stephano game from IPL 3 was credited as something otherwordly, when I only saw an army engagement with Stasis that would have been one out of many in an above average BW TvP. I guess SC2 is just not for me. As for BW... I'm certain there will be suffering, but not from people the SC2 crowd cares about. The B-teamers and practice partners who remained loyal to BW will likely switch to SC2 or quit, since their position was insecure as was, but the more KeSPA flirts with transitioning, the less likely it becomes that they'll find the motivation to continue. Their potential in BW unrealized, they must either try to force their skillset into the boundaries of SC2 or quit esports altogether, especially with the disbanding of teams. The A-teamers of FOX, OZ and HERO that get distributed will compete with them for playtime in Proleague, and if a player like Hyun is doubting that he can continue playing, what about players like Trap, Hon_sin, or Paralyze? And if every single regularly played A-teamer switches, that means the process repeats itself for at least 48 players we've come to know and love. As with everything, no use crying over things we can't change. But regardless, if such a transition has indeed started, I will mourn. SC2 could never fill that void that BW will leave in my heart. | ||
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Grettin
42417 Posts
On October 20 2011 06:05 Apollo_Shards wrote: How is this negative for BW? Well it's not, but it could be in the future. What if sponsors find SC2 more attractive because of this and they want to sponsor SC2 teams instead of Broodwar teams? Thats just one example. But right now, it really isn't. | ||
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Gann1
United States1578 Posts
On October 20 2011 06:08 Ribbon wrote: Sort of. SC2 fans think that if big name BW players switch, they'll either fail (and thus SC2 fans won't be subjected to "LOL Zergbong SC2 is for scrubs") or succeed (in which case the games'll be better). The meme that SC2 players are playing...suboptimally...is something that gnaws at SC2 fans because it has a lot of truth to it (players get supply blocked, warp prism micro is pitiful even though there's no reason for it to be, overseers accumulate energy that could be used for changlings while hidden bases go unscouted for 10 minutes, etc etc etc). So there's a desire to see big name players switch so it can stop being a hypothetical. Also, trolls. Lots. of. Trolls. So many trolls. Trolls that should be reported and ignored. to be fair, Zergbong was pretty good at BW until he was asked to be a 2v2 specialist. Then when 2v2 went the way of the dodo he floundered since it was all he did for years  | ||
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Torenhire
United States11681 Posts
On October 20 2011 06:09 Gann1 wrote: It's not, but it is negative for this forum since we get wonderful posts like this on every page: Also, someone said this earlier on in the thread. of course BW fans are on the defensive, because we've been marginalized by foreign tournaments and this very website ever since the release of SC2. We're used to bad news, so any news that comes we see the worst case scenario. Negative for BW: The article also states Pro-gaming teams are starting to think more realistically about Starcraft II, upgrading their computers to be more suitable for Starcraft II, and also testing Starcraft II internally. And I don't have a problem with what Neurosis typed. Big deal people want to see the best players playing Starcraft 2. There's no problem with that, imo. The posts that are really obnoxious are the ones that say "Flash Jaedong and Bisu should switch to SC2 because BW is stale" or something like that. You should be proud that people from a completely other game dream about BW pros in their game because it means that they respect (sometimes) the skills that players have in BW. edit: and before someone calls me out on it, I know it's not confirmed, but that's the potential negative that people are up in arms about. | ||
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Yxes2211
United States1587 Posts
 Give SC2 a shot if u want, but lemme enjoy another season of awesome! :D | ||
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aintz
Canada5624 Posts
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FlaShFTW
United States10579 Posts
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