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On October 20 2011 05:46 RHMVNovus wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 05:29 Hinanawi wrote:On October 20 2011 05:23 leo23 wrote:On October 20 2011 05:19 Hinanawi wrote:On October 20 2011 05:13 Euronyme wrote:On October 20 2011 05:09 Hinanawi wrote:On October 20 2011 05:05 Euronyme wrote:On October 20 2011 05:01 Hinanawi wrote:
This is terrible news for those of us who don't give a damn about 'e-sports'. You know, those of us who just love Brood War.
I guess it's inevitable. I certainly won't be switching to watch SC2 unless HotS and LotV do a lot to make the game more like BW (get rid of warpgates, refocus the game on siege/anti-siege units, make units clump up less, etc. etc.) Pull that log out of your ass would you? Where in the fiery fuck did you read that they'd stop broadcasting sc bw? NOWHERE! That's right. Shut the fuck up and stop whining like a little bitch. What's wrong with you? Thanks for your opinion about sc2 though. I'm sure someone, somewhere out there cares. Temper tantrum much? Are you going to threaten to punch me through the internet next? Someone hold me, I'm scared. Seriously sick of all people who litterally do nothing but whine in these threads. Get over it. Go to the battle net forums with that kind of attitude. As Yergidy said it might bring viewers to BW. We know nothing yet. Why are you complaining? Why? Let's not pretend this could possibly be good for BW. You, and most everyone else in this thread, came here from the front page. This is actually the Brood War forum. That's some admin's bad, really. I don't blame SC2 fans for being excited about this, but I'm going to express my opinion about it whenever I damn well please, especially on the BW forum. My first post wasn't even inflammatory, I didn't say "no SC2 is shit it'll never be good", I laid out (completely fixable) complaints with the current state of SC2 with hope that expansions will fix them. SC1 needed an expansion to fix it, after all. You proceeded to blow your top and ask me to "pull that log out of my ass" and "shut the fuck up" you "whiny bitch". How about you behave yourself on the BW forum and act like the guest you are here? why is this bad news for you? just curious.
The article also states Pro-gaming teams are starting to think more realistically about Starcraft II, upgrading their computers to be more suitable for Starcraft II, and also testing Starcraft II internally.
Obviously happy news for SC2 fans, not so happy news for BW fans. It's difficult to see this as being simple coexistence, rather than another step towards replacement. I understand your concern and why you are frustrated. But basically, I want to trace people coming in here back to (what I think was) the most recent Final Edit, the 'Elephant in the Room' piece. It started a massive shit-storm and I don't want to re-hash it, but the basic gist of it was: The Best RTS players are playing Brood War. Therefore, your game is shit and WILL BE shit until the Brood War Gosus start playing SC2. And being posted on the front page like that has an impact. Basically, it placed the newcomers who really wouldn't have cared about the quality of SC2 play so long as it grew in ESPORTS-y fashion in a position where they really had to start caring about the quality of their game to be able to defend it. And so that put them in a position where they wanted the BW Gosus to switch over. Obviously, BW Gosus switching over ain't good for BW at all. In short, that piece put the BW scene and SC2 scene at loggerheads when they would not necessarily have otherwise been. You, of course, have every right to be angry at people who come in here parading ESPORTS as a cover for why BW should die. And without that piece, there is little reason to believe this ProLeague development would have transpired differently. But that SC2 fanboys - of which I am one (note: not who runs in here and ESPORTSs it up, which is an action I scarcely condone) - come in here and hope that BW heroes convert to SC2 is at least in part a rhetorical consequence of a point that many would not have cared about otherwise. Only in this respect will you find me agreeing with Alex Garfield: Journalistic Responsibility. It matters.
No disagreements here. The Elephant in the Room article was something that didn't need to be frontpaged, it was something BW fans already knew and something SC2 fans didn't need rubbed in their faces like that.
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On October 20 2011 05:46 Soleron wrote:
If the SC2 teams were to merge with SC1 teams, what would you like to see?
KT
SKT
Woongjin
CJ
ACE
KHAN
IM
ST
SlayerS
MVP
NS HoSeo
oGs
Prime
FXO
(ZeNex defunct?)
Khan + ST = <3
Khan's the only one I really care about, but it makes sense for SKT and Slayers to hook up. I think if any team doesn't join up with a kespa team, it'll be FXO because of its foreign ownership.
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On October 20 2011 05:45 PhoenixDark wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 05:41 TheGlassface wrote:On October 20 2011 05:36 PhoenixDark wrote:On October 20 2011 05:28 gen.Sun wrote:
The Windows XP analogy is asinine. BW is a sport, just like Baseball or Chess. When they invented softball not every baseball player went to play that new game. When they invented checkers not every chess player went to play that new game. SC2 is a new, different, and imo shittier, game, just like WC3 and AOE3 or whatever that came after BW. It's not an 'upgrade', the only thing it shares with SC1 is the name.
Sports, with consistent rules, lasts for centuries. Expecting BW to die after a decade is stupid, and shows that you don't believe in 'esports' at all. The engine of esports is still technology. It's hard to make a direct 1:1 comparison to an actual sport like baseball or football. As technology and gaming advance, different games begin to dominate whereas others are forgotten; you can't expect a piece of technology to stay the same and still dominate a market 10, 15, 20 years down the line. Whereas chess is still chess, and remains a popular game no matter what; it's not tethered to anything, like a videogame is tethered to technology. They aren't directly analogous. I expect BW to die, like any other out of date tech/videogame; and guess what, 12-15 years from now SC2 will die too, and our kids will be talking about SC3. That doesn't mean I don't believe in "esports," It means I understand how markets evolve. I'm pretty certain one of the nice things about technology is the ability to have backwards compatibility. I'm also pretty sure my top of the line, new end PC can play my "out of date" BW just fine and actually, with less lag than the "new and evolved" videogame due to the basic inclusion of technology and not intentional crippling for profit margins. Don't bring up how new and high tech SCII is while BNET2.0 still exists please. BNET 2.0 sucks, at least we agree on something. I'm sure people will still be playing BW competitively in some form or fashion for years. Just as people still play Pac Man competitively. But my point is that esports are driven by a medium that changes years, often drastically so. BW will always exist, it's not like every copy will be burned or something. But its decline and ultimate death as a global esport is inevitable, just as SC2's is.
Don't know why people are arguing with you. Your overarching point is correct, and I don't think you've been too inflammatory with your words/tone.
Every game has a lifespan, and that lifespan will run out someday. That's just how the world turns. SCBW, War3  , DotA, and SC2 will all die one day. It could be years from now, it could be next year, but it'll happen someday.
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On October 20 2011 05:49 StimedPylon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 05:37 rasers wrote:
Why are so many SC2 people so sure that SC2 willt ake off and become huge in korea in 2 3 years? :D
i mean its not that BW is "dying" its eSport as a whole in Korea Oo so i dont understand how u can think that right now. That's just the excuse certain BW snobs use to underplay the fact that BW is slowly getting phased out. Let's hope KeSPA isn't retarded enough to repeat its past mistakes. There's a huge international following for SC2, so they better cater to it and they'll probably actually be in the green for once at the end of a year.
no its actually just true that MMos are taking over Oo
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On October 20 2011 05:52 babylon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 05:45 PhoenixDark wrote:On October 20 2011 05:41 TheGlassface wrote:On October 20 2011 05:36 PhoenixDark wrote:On October 20 2011 05:28 gen.Sun wrote:
The Windows XP analogy is asinine. BW is a sport, just like Baseball or Chess. When they invented softball not every baseball player went to play that new game. When they invented checkers not every chess player went to play that new game. SC2 is a new, different, and imo shittier, game, just like WC3 and AOE3 or whatever that came after BW. It's not an 'upgrade', the only thing it shares with SC1 is the name.
Sports, with consistent rules, lasts for centuries. Expecting BW to die after a decade is stupid, and shows that you don't believe in 'esports' at all. The engine of esports is still technology. It's hard to make a direct 1:1 comparison to an actual sport like baseball or football. As technology and gaming advance, different games begin to dominate whereas others are forgotten; you can't expect a piece of technology to stay the same and still dominate a market 10, 15, 20 years down the line. Whereas chess is still chess, and remains a popular game no matter what; it's not tethered to anything, like a videogame is tethered to technology. They aren't directly analogous. I expect BW to die, like any other out of date tech/videogame; and guess what, 12-15 years from now SC2 will die too, and our kids will be talking about SC3. That doesn't mean I don't believe in "esports," It means I understand how markets evolve. I'm pretty certain one of the nice things about technology is the ability to have backwards compatibility. I'm also pretty sure my top of the line, new end PC can play my "out of date" BW just fine and actually, with less lag than the "new and evolved" videogame due to the basic inclusion of technology and not intentional crippling for profit margins. Don't bring up how new and high tech SCII is while BNET2.0 still exists please. BNET 2.0 sucks, at least we agree on something. I'm sure people will still be playing BW competitively in some form or fashion for years. Just as people still play Pac Man competitively. But my point is that esports are driven by a medium that changes years, often drastically so. BW will always exist, it's not like every copy will be burned or something. But its decline and ultimate death as a global esport is inevitable, just as SC2's is. Don't know why people are arguing with you. Your overarching point is correct, and I don't think you've been too inflammatory with your words/tone. Every game has a lifespan, and that lifespan will run out someday. That's just how the world turns. SCBW, War3 , DotA, and SC2 will all die one day. It could be years from now, it could be next year, but it'll happen someday.
And there will be better sequels or better games to replace them all. It will be GLORIOUS.
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On October 20 2011 05:49 StimedPylon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 05:37 rasers wrote:
Why are so many SC2 people so sure that SC2 willt ake off and become huge in korea in 2 3 years? :D
i mean its not that BW is "dying" its eSport as a whole in Korea Oo so i dont understand how u can think that right now. That's just the excuse certain BW snobs use to underplay the fact that BW is slowly getting phased out. Let's hope KeSPA isn't retarded enough to repeat its past mistakes. There's a huge international following for SC2, so they better cater to it and they'll probably actually be in the green for once at the end of a year.
Thankfully we have an expert on Korean culture such as yourself present to educate us on what is really happening.
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I really don't get how this could possibly work, a lot of the teams that were formed for SC2 rejected KeSPA's licensing and rules system in general and SC2Con was a failure because of the far more individualist teams. If it's just the current PL teams having to make an SC2 team too, then they're either going to be a failure or create a weird separated league of players tied down to the same hoops of approval that KeSPA set up for BW and will fracture the Korean leagues.
I guess the third option is they get behind the GSTL and turn it into a major event and Gom/Blizzard are able to force them into more relaxed rules for SC2 progaming and probably the most likely, but even then it doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense.
This could be either really really bad for SC2 in korea or pretty good for sc2 in korea and bad for everywhere else, or pretty good for everyone. I honestly think the first one is more likely given history.
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On October 20 2011 05:52 rasers wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 05:49 StimedPylon wrote:On October 20 2011 05:37 rasers wrote:
Why are so many SC2 people so sure that SC2 willt ake off and become huge in korea in 2 3 years? :D
i mean its not that BW is "dying" its eSport as a whole in Korea Oo so i dont understand how u can think that right now. That's just the excuse certain BW snobs use to underplay the fact that BW is slowly getting phased out. Let's hope KeSPA isn't retarded enough to repeat its past mistakes. There's a huge international following for SC2, so they better cater to it and they'll probably actually be in the green for once at the end of a year. no its actually just true that MMos are taking over Oo
TERA > BW + SC2 in Korea
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On October 20 2011 03:04 Gann1 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 02:59 Greentellon wrote:
What? Current teams being sacrificed on the altar? Having to change names? I am not familiar with BW/SC2/eSports in Korea, but how is that a good thing? Kespa consists of the sponsors of the seven (soon to be eight) professional BW teams. They run Proleague and OSL. If they do expand to SC2, they're going to use the same teams in proleague, just with SC2 divisions. So if for example IM wants to play in proleague, they're going to have to take a sponsorship from a kespa team (they'll probably want to anyway, as they'll make more money). Aren't there more than eight SC2 teams in Korea? If so that could create some problems, possibly the smaller teams that didn't get sponsored would be broken up and spread around the eight teams that do get picked up.
I'm pretty curious how FXO will feel about this, since they're an SC2 team with a big sponsor that owns them :/.
I can see the BW Teams (Particularly Samsung Khan) wondering if it's worth the effort to buy an SC2 team, but I think the BW teams and the SC2 teams should stay separate.
This could actually get pretty messy pretty fast. I don't know how cool the SC2 teams will be with working for KeSPA, and if the BW team actually try to set up homegrown SC2 divisions, that'd be a disaster. I hope that's not what's happening, but I'm baffled at why the BW teams need SC2-capable computers.
KeSPA's done nothing but try to kill SC2 since it came out, and I'm not really confident in this change of heart.
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o
m
g
...
Need.
User was warned for this post
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I think it makes sense for KeSPA to run a SC2 proleague if they are allowed to. This is what KeSPA is for after all. I don't think it makes sense for them to combine them together. That's not what I got out of the article but what it seems like a lot of people are suggesting.
I don't think it is hard to understand why BW fans get so annoyed and defensive about SC2 posters when for the past year every time there is a BW news post there are a flood of posts about how BW's time is up and we all need to move on.
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On October 20 2011 05:52 rasers wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 05:49 StimedPylon wrote:On October 20 2011 05:37 rasers wrote:
Why are so many SC2 people so sure that SC2 willt ake off and become huge in korea in 2 3 years? :D
i mean its not that BW is "dying" its eSport as a whole in Korea Oo so i dont understand how u can think that right now. That's just the excuse certain BW snobs use to underplay the fact that BW is slowly getting phased out. Let's hope KeSPA isn't retarded enough to repeat its past mistakes. There's a huge international following for SC2, so they better cater to it and they'll probably actually be in the green for once at the end of a year. no its actually just true that MMos are taking over Oo
Exactly. The bulk of the fans has moved on to MMORPGs. The market has turned casual.
Most people nowadays just want to see eye-candies.
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The situation confuses me immensely the more I think about it.
As GOM and Kespa are not exactly the best of friends, and so many negotiations and deals fall through in the past months alone. So what, Kespa is now happy to throw money at GOM to broadcast SC2? Yea right. Unless team sponsors are pressuring Kespa to introduce SC2 and providing the financial incentive themselves.
Even, GOM themselves host and hold the GSL and GSTL, why would they allow competitor to hold their own competitive tournament unless, again, GOM is getting sums of money through licensing, enough that they believe will compensate?
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IM KT
SKT SlayerS
what else?
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On October 20 2011 05:30 NYAH_NYAH wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 05:19 Hinanawi wrote:On October 20 2011 05:13 Euronyme wrote:On October 20 2011 05:09 Hinanawi wrote:On October 20 2011 05:05 Euronyme wrote:On October 20 2011 05:01 Hinanawi wrote:
This is terrible news for those of us who don't give a damn about 'e-sports'. You know, those of us who just love Brood War.
I guess it's inevitable. I certainly won't be switching to watch SC2 unless HotS and LotV do a lot to make the game more like BW (get rid of warpgates, refocus the game on siege/anti-siege units, make units clump up less, etc. etc.) Pull that log out of your ass would you? Where in the fiery fuck did you read that they'd stop broadcasting sc bw? NOWHERE! That's right. Shut the fuck up and stop whining like a little bitch. What's wrong with you? Thanks for your opinion about sc2 though. I'm sure someone, somewhere out there cares. Temper tantrum much? Are you going to threaten to punch me through the internet next? Someone hold me, I'm scared. Seriously sick of all people who litterally do nothing but whine in these threads. Get over it. Go to the battle net forums with that kind of attitude. As Yergidy said it might bring viewers to BW. We know nothing yet. Why are you complaining? Why? Let's not pretend this could possibly be good for BW. And let's not pretend that BW had more than a year of life at most left in it.
And let`s not pretend that guys like you aren`t saying that sentence every single year since...2006-7...
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As long as Blizzard owns the rights to broadcast anything SC2-related, they're going to push it and try to kill BW. And eventually, maybe not today or even in a year, they'll succeed.
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YAY! :D
User was warned for this post
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it would be great to see them broadcasted side by side... since it will just illuminate how much more exciting bw is.
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On October 20 2011 05:57 Vuk_91 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 05:30 NYAH_NYAH wrote:On October 20 2011 05:19 Hinanawi wrote:On October 20 2011 05:13 Euronyme wrote:On October 20 2011 05:09 Hinanawi wrote:On October 20 2011 05:05 Euronyme wrote:On October 20 2011 05:01 Hinanawi wrote:
This is terrible news for those of us who don't give a damn about 'e-sports'. You know, those of us who just love Brood War.
I guess it's inevitable. I certainly won't be switching to watch SC2 unless HotS and LotV do a lot to make the game more like BW (get rid of warpgates, refocus the game on siege/anti-siege units, make units clump up less, etc. etc.) Pull that log out of your ass would you? Where in the fiery fuck did you read that they'd stop broadcasting sc bw? NOWHERE! That's right. Shut the fuck up and stop whining like a little bitch. What's wrong with you? Thanks for your opinion about sc2 though. I'm sure someone, somewhere out there cares. Temper tantrum much? Are you going to threaten to punch me through the internet next? Someone hold me, I'm scared. Seriously sick of all people who litterally do nothing but whine in these threads. Get over it. Go to the battle net forums with that kind of attitude. As Yergidy said it might bring viewers to BW. We know nothing yet. Why are you complaining? Why? Let's not pretend this could possibly be good for BW. And let's not pretend that BW had more than a year of life at most left in it. And let`s not pretend that guys like you aren`t saying that sentence every single year since...2006-7...
And let's not pretend that it's becoming less and less false every year.
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EPT
