• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 22:39
CET 04:39
KST 12:39
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!12[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.175Evil Geniuses - shutting down21ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier7Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins1[$1250] International ShieldBattery League99
StarCraft 2
General
How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book 5.0.17 Patch Notes - October 7, 2026 Evil Geniuses - shutting down
Tourneys
WardiTV Mondays ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[D] the control group Simple Questions/Answers [G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
Mutation # 550 Graveyard Shift The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 549 Endless Sparkles Mutation # 548 Shining Bright
Brood War
General
How SKT1 S-Tiers Felt To Be Swept By Flash Top Players of October 2026 (EBPD Rankings) Rollback Netcode in Brood War BW General Discussion Sagi.gg Launcher Released
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues 2v2v2v2 Tournament Stage 1: Community Poll [IPSL] IPSL Winter 26-27 Ro24 is HERE! [$1250] International ShieldBattery League
Strategy
50,000-Word Terran Builds Memo 2026-10-22 Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Deus Ex 3!? Mobile Legends: Bang Bang Armies of Exigo - YesYes?
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Chess Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Fan Club Resource Thread Reynor Fan Club The Flash Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Why I built Repalyzer (1.1.…
BlueStar
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 11977 users

[Interview] SPL ACE vs SKT Winners - Page 8

Forum Index > BW General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 6 7 8 9 Next All
letian
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany4221 Posts
April 25 2011 07:16 GMT
#141
On April 25 2011 05:06 night terrors wrote:
Did you see the games? They were solid.
Now did you see JD's game last night?


Yes, JD risked with 9 pool and lost, so I couldn't see anything bad in his game.
letian
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany4221 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-25 07:21:08
April 25 2011 07:19 GMT
#142
On April 25 2011 15:27 chisuri wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 25 2011 15:20 moopie wrote:
On April 25 2011 15:11 chisuri wrote:
I don't compare Bisu's games vs Flash to JD's game yesterday. I compare his performance in the match with ACE to JD's match with KHAN to show that maybe JD was too focus on the MSL group rather than prepare for PL match leading to his poor display yesterday.

JD lost a zvz with a bo disadvantage. Bisu beat ACE players. Not really a fair comparison.

He had the advantage. 9 pool (JD) vs 12 hatch.

He scouted Great way too late to benefit from that.
letian
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany4221 Posts
April 25 2011 07:23 GMT
#143
Anyway, Bisu could have performed better imo, but I wouldn't bet on him against Flash, its Stork who can handle Flash nicely - not Bisu, who, I think, is a bit bo1 player. Its been a while since we saw his box play, don't you agree?
chisuri
Profile Joined January 2010
Vietnam789 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-25 07:36:45
April 25 2011 07:32 GMT
#144
On April 25 2011 16:01 Milkis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 25 2011 15:26 chisuri wrote:
I mean that Bisu is not making excuses here. He definitely lost, ill-prepared or whatever reason. But that was very much his coach's fault to not ALLOW him to practice. And he's telling the truth why some of you're bitching him about that. Some even say that even if he did prepare the results would not be much different. Well I can say that's too subjective. The PL matches have just showed us how important preparation is. JD lost his game kinda unlucky but you must admit his performance were kinda lacking and far far more worse than his game in group D WHERE HE WAS PREPARED. So I think that maybe he was concentrated too much on the MSL games and need a rest, that's very reasonable. And Bisu's games before showed that he was very much prepared FOR THE PL MATCH. What kind of bullshit is that? He didn't prepare for his matches in MSL but for PL match? May I mind you SKT game was one day ahead Oz game, so JD should have more time to prepare for his match, rite? Well, based on the result, he apparently not.


Stop sidestepping the point. I think at this point it's clear you have no idea how to watch ZvZ at all. Performance? Jaedong lost the second his Zerglings went the wrong direction and he knew it, of course it'll make him make desperate decisions that he knows wont work out.

Stop trying to degrade Jaedong to Bisu's level. Jaedong is someone who has handled dual starleagues with full Proleague while performing quite well. Bisu is not Lee Ssang, and part of the reason is because his team is a bitch. I do think it is an excuse and it does excuse Bisu for his MSL performance

But ffs stop trying to say Jaedong wasn't prepared in yesterday's match when he lost to 90% luck and he couldn't do anything about it after his initial choices of actions.

So JD just succumbs to luck without any further resistance? And I thought TBLS is one or two classes above the rest especially JD in ZvZ, didn't he overcome many many BO disadvantages, bad-luck scoutings before? So if his ability was enough to overcome such things before, why it didn't yesterday? Maybe (just maybe) because of his lack of preparation? You must be somewhat very bias to not see the difference between JD's preparation for his game on La Mancha and Bisu's group stage matches. And hell, just compare Bisu's game on Aztec and his MSL games. He can beat Flash with preparation, it's a fact, it happened. But he didn't have that preparation for his MSL games. And if you agree that he was lack of prep, then how come he says so is equal to finding excuses? That's not his fault. HE WANTED TO PRACTICE. HE WANTED TO PREPARE. BUT HIS COACH DIDN'T ALLOW HIM FOR CRYING OUT LOUD. Why that he says he's upset upon his coach is excusing? HE SHOULD BE VERY THANKFUL SINCE HE CAN BLAME HIS COACH FOR HIS LOSS NOW. No, he doesn't want to lose. He wants to win for his fans. And god, his coach didn't care. You haters just flame his no matter what, now even when he speaks the truth and says sorry to his fans. And hell, he just wants to compete better with the other S-class. you don't want that? You want him to not be allowed to practice so your Lee Ssang can beat him? Well, ok, I guess we have to accept that and come back to PL where Bisu is allowing to practice and watch he beats Flash and JD, especially JD consecutively. And you can enjoy your Lee Ssang's domination in SLs with one of the two other S-class isn't allowed to practice and the others is allowed to not practice and to watch manga and play Cellphone games.
chisuri
Profile Joined January 2010
Vietnam789 Posts
April 25 2011 07:33 GMT
#145
On April 25 2011 16:19 letian wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 25 2011 15:27 chisuri wrote:
On April 25 2011 15:20 moopie wrote:
On April 25 2011 15:11 chisuri wrote:
I don't compare Bisu's games vs Flash to JD's game yesterday. I compare his performance in the match with ACE to JD's match with KHAN to show that maybe JD was too focus on the MSL group rather than prepare for PL match leading to his poor display yesterday.

JD lost a zvz with a bo disadvantage. Bisu beat ACE players. Not really a fair comparison.

He had the advantage. 9 pool (JD) vs 12 hatch.

He scouted Great way too late to benefit from that.

if he scouted Great correctly, he auto won. And guess who is unlucky then?
chisuri
Profile Joined January 2010
Vietnam789 Posts
April 25 2011 07:40 GMT
#146
On April 25 2011 16:23 letian wrote:
Anyway, Bisu could have performed better imo, but I wouldn't bet on him against Flash, its Stork who can handle Flash nicely - not Bisu, who, I think, is a bit bo1 player. Its been a while since we saw his box play, don't you agree?

He need to win 1 game to advance. Bo1 is more than enough.
Milkis
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
5003 Posts
April 25 2011 07:45 GMT
#147
On April 25 2011 16:32 chisuri wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 25 2011 16:01 Milkis wrote:
On April 25 2011 15:26 chisuri wrote:
I mean that Bisu is not making excuses here. He definitely lost, ill-prepared or whatever reason. But that was very much his coach's fault to not ALLOW him to practice. And he's telling the truth why some of you're bitching him about that. Some even say that even if he did prepare the results would not be much different. Well I can say that's too subjective. The PL matches have just showed us how important preparation is. JD lost his game kinda unlucky but you must admit his performance were kinda lacking and far far more worse than his game in group D WHERE HE WAS PREPARED. So I think that maybe he was concentrated too much on the MSL games and need a rest, that's very reasonable. And Bisu's games before showed that he was very much prepared FOR THE PL MATCH. What kind of bullshit is that? He didn't prepare for his matches in MSL but for PL match? May I mind you SKT game was one day ahead Oz game, so JD should have more time to prepare for his match, rite? Well, based on the result, he apparently not.


Stop sidestepping the point. I think at this point it's clear you have no idea how to watch ZvZ at all. Performance? Jaedong lost the second his Zerglings went the wrong direction and he knew it, of course it'll make him make desperate decisions that he knows wont work out.

Stop trying to degrade Jaedong to Bisu's level. Jaedong is someone who has handled dual starleagues with full Proleague while performing quite well. Bisu is not Lee Ssang, and part of the reason is because his team is a bitch. I do think it is an excuse and it does excuse Bisu for his MSL performance

But ffs stop trying to say Jaedong wasn't prepared in yesterday's match when he lost to 90% luck and he couldn't do anything about it after his initial choices of actions.

So JD just succumbs to luck without any further resistance? And I thought TBLS is one or two classes above the rest especially JD in ZvZ, didn't he overcome many many BO disadvantages, bad-luck scoutings before? So if his ability was enough to overcome such things before, why it didn't yesterday? Maybe (just maybe) because of his lack of preparation? You must be somewhat very bias to not see the difference between JD's preparation for his game on La Mancha and Bisu's group stage matches. And hell, just compare Bisu's game on Aztec and his MSL games. He can beat Flash with preparation, it's a fact, it happened. But he didn't have that preparation for his MSL games. And if you agree that he was lack of prep, then how come he says so is equal to finding excuses? That's not his fault. HE WANTED TO PRACTICE. HE WANTED TO PREPARE. BUT HIS COACH DIDN'T ALLOW HIM FOR CRYING OUT LOUD. Why that he says he's upset upon his coach is excusing? HE SHOULD BE VERY THANKFUL SINCE HE CAN BLAME HIS COACH FOR HIS LOSS NOW. No, he doesn't want to lose. He wants to win for his fans. And god, his coach didn't care. You haters just flame his no matter what, now even when he speaks the truth and says sorry to his fans. And hell, he just wants to compete better with the other S-class. you don't want that? You want him to not be allowed to practice so your Lee Ssang can beat him? Well, ok, I guess we have to accept that and come back to PL where Bisu is allowing to practice and watch he beats Flash and JD, especially JD consecutively. And you can enjoy your Lee Ssang's domination in SLs with one of the two other S-class isn't allowed to practice and the others is allowed to not practice and to watch manga and play Cellphone games.


Of course it's not his fault. I already said his excuse was a valid one.

I don't know what you're ranting about but you're clearly misinterpreting a lot of things I'm saying. Chillax.
chisuri
Profile Joined January 2010
Vietnam789 Posts
April 25 2011 07:56 GMT
#148
On April 25 2011 16:45 Milkis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 25 2011 16:32 chisuri wrote:
On April 25 2011 16:01 Milkis wrote:
On April 25 2011 15:26 chisuri wrote:
I mean that Bisu is not making excuses here. He definitely lost, ill-prepared or whatever reason. But that was very much his coach's fault to not ALLOW him to practice. And he's telling the truth why some of you're bitching him about that. Some even say that even if he did prepare the results would not be much different. Well I can say that's too subjective. The PL matches have just showed us how important preparation is. JD lost his game kinda unlucky but you must admit his performance were kinda lacking and far far more worse than his game in group D WHERE HE WAS PREPARED. So I think that maybe he was concentrated too much on the MSL games and need a rest, that's very reasonable. And Bisu's games before showed that he was very much prepared FOR THE PL MATCH. What kind of bullshit is that? He didn't prepare for his matches in MSL but for PL match? May I mind you SKT game was one day ahead Oz game, so JD should have more time to prepare for his match, rite? Well, based on the result, he apparently not.


Stop sidestepping the point. I think at this point it's clear you have no idea how to watch ZvZ at all. Performance? Jaedong lost the second his Zerglings went the wrong direction and he knew it, of course it'll make him make desperate decisions that he knows wont work out.

Stop trying to degrade Jaedong to Bisu's level. Jaedong is someone who has handled dual starleagues with full Proleague while performing quite well. Bisu is not Lee Ssang, and part of the reason is because his team is a bitch. I do think it is an excuse and it does excuse Bisu for his MSL performance

But ffs stop trying to say Jaedong wasn't prepared in yesterday's match when he lost to 90% luck and he couldn't do anything about it after his initial choices of actions.

So JD just succumbs to luck without any further resistance? And I thought TBLS is one or two classes above the rest especially JD in ZvZ, didn't he overcome many many BO disadvantages, bad-luck scoutings before? So if his ability was enough to overcome such things before, why it didn't yesterday? Maybe (just maybe) because of his lack of preparation? You must be somewhat very bias to not see the difference between JD's preparation for his game on La Mancha and Bisu's group stage matches. And hell, just compare Bisu's game on Aztec and his MSL games. He can beat Flash with preparation, it's a fact, it happened. But he didn't have that preparation for his MSL games. And if you agree that he was lack of prep, then how come he says so is equal to finding excuses? That's not his fault. HE WANTED TO PRACTICE. HE WANTED TO PREPARE. BUT HIS COACH DIDN'T ALLOW HIM FOR CRYING OUT LOUD. Why that he says he's upset upon his coach is excusing? HE SHOULD BE VERY THANKFUL SINCE HE CAN BLAME HIS COACH FOR HIS LOSS NOW. No, he doesn't want to lose. He wants to win for his fans. And god, his coach didn't care. You haters just flame his no matter what, now even when he speaks the truth and says sorry to his fans. And hell, he just wants to compete better with the other S-class. you don't want that? You want him to not be allowed to practice so your Lee Ssang can beat him? Well, ok, I guess we have to accept that and come back to PL where Bisu is allowing to practice and watch he beats Flash and JD, especially JD consecutively. And you can enjoy your Lee Ssang's domination in SLs with one of the two other S-class isn't allowed to practice and the others is allowed to not practice and to watch manga and play Cellphone games.


Of course it's not his fault. I already said his excuse was a valid one.

I don't know what you're ranting about but you're clearly misinterpreting a lot of things I'm saying. Chillax.

So your reasons for saying JD is one level above Bisu is? As far as I remember, when JD was running for MSL, OSL and PL in 2009 he did collapse in MSL against Calm, and in PL against Fantasy, twice. And at the end of 2010 season he lost both finals to Flash and his team didn't make PL playoff, no? At the beginning of this season, Bisu performed better in PL, his team won WL playoff over Oz and KT and his past performance in SLs was equal to Flash and just slightly worse than JD. So what is the level of JD that Bisu can't reach?
ffreakk
Profile Joined September 2010
Singapore2155 Posts
April 25 2011 08:10 GMT
#149
On April 25 2011 16:45 Milkis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 25 2011 16:32 chisuri wrote:
On April 25 2011 16:01 Milkis wrote:
On April 25 2011 15:26 chisuri wrote:
I mean that Bisu is not making excuses here. He definitely lost, ill-prepared or whatever reason. But that was very much his coach's fault to not ALLOW him to practice. And he's telling the truth why some of you're bitching him about that. Some even say that even if he did prepare the results would not be much different. Well I can say that's too subjective. The PL matches have just showed us how important preparation is. JD lost his game kinda unlucky but you must admit his performance were kinda lacking and far far more worse than his game in group D WHERE HE WAS PREPARED. So I think that maybe he was concentrated too much on the MSL games and need a rest, that's very reasonable. And Bisu's games before showed that he was very much prepared FOR THE PL MATCH. What kind of bullshit is that? He didn't prepare for his matches in MSL but for PL match? May I mind you SKT game was one day ahead Oz game, so JD should have more time to prepare for his match, rite? Well, based on the result, he apparently not.


Stop sidestepping the point. I think at this point it's clear you have no idea how to watch ZvZ at all. Performance? Jaedong lost the second his Zerglings went the wrong direction and he knew it, of course it'll make him make desperate decisions that he knows wont work out.

Stop trying to degrade Jaedong to Bisu's level. Jaedong is someone who has handled dual starleagues with full Proleague while performing quite well. Bisu is not Lee Ssang, and part of the reason is because his team is a bitch. I do think it is an excuse and it does excuse Bisu for his MSL performance

But ffs stop trying to say Jaedong wasn't prepared in yesterday's match when he lost to 90% luck and he couldn't do anything about it after his initial choices of actions.

So JD just succumbs to luck without any further resistance? And I thought TBLS is one or two classes above the rest especially JD in ZvZ, didn't he overcome many many BO disadvantages, bad-luck scoutings before? So if his ability was enough to overcome such things before, why it didn't yesterday? Maybe (just maybe) because of his lack of preparation? You must be somewhat very bias to not see the difference between JD's preparation for his game on La Mancha and Bisu's group stage matches. And hell, just compare Bisu's game on Aztec and his MSL games. He can beat Flash with preparation, it's a fact, it happened. But he didn't have that preparation for his MSL games. And if you agree that he was lack of prep, then how come he says so is equal to finding excuses? That's not his fault. HE WANTED TO PRACTICE. HE WANTED TO PREPARE. BUT HIS COACH DIDN'T ALLOW HIM FOR CRYING OUT LOUD. Why that he says he's upset upon his coach is excusing? HE SHOULD BE VERY THANKFUL SINCE HE CAN BLAME HIS COACH FOR HIS LOSS NOW. No, he doesn't want to lose. He wants to win for his fans. And god, his coach didn't care. You haters just flame his no matter what, now even when he speaks the truth and says sorry to his fans. And hell, he just wants to compete better with the other S-class. you don't want that? You want him to not be allowed to practice so your Lee Ssang can beat him? Well, ok, I guess we have to accept that and come back to PL where Bisu is allowing to practice and watch he beats Flash and JD, especially JD consecutively. And you can enjoy your Lee Ssang's domination in SLs with one of the two other S-class isn't allowed to practice and the others is allowed to not practice and to watch manga and play Cellphone games.


Of course it's not his fault. I already said his excuse was a valid one.

I don't know what you're ranting about but you're clearly misinterpreting a lot of things I'm saying. Chillax.


He is basically mad at the people who just diss on Bisu's interview as "finding excuses" and bashing him as inferior anyway (you did say that the excuse is valid though). Personally, i do see where he is coming from.. The amount of Bisu hate recently is over the top recently for some reason, and as a fan im pretty mad too..

When a player expressed a desire/regret/wish for extra preparation, hoping to put up a better showing, and was ashamed to face his fans because he couldnt do so.. I tend to empathize with him more, and feel less needs to diss on him, as opposed to quite a few "rofl excuses he would have gotten rolled anyway" in the thread so far.
Look. Only Forward. See. Only Victory.
letian
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany4221 Posts
April 25 2011 08:11 GMT
#150
On April 25 2011 16:33 chisuri wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 25 2011 16:19 letian wrote:
On April 25 2011 15:27 chisuri wrote:
On April 25 2011 15:20 moopie wrote:
On April 25 2011 15:11 chisuri wrote:
I don't compare Bisu's games vs Flash to JD's game yesterday. I compare his performance in the match with ACE to JD's match with KHAN to show that maybe JD was too focus on the MSL group rather than prepare for PL match leading to his poor display yesterday.

JD lost a zvz with a bo disadvantage. Bisu beat ACE players. Not really a fair comparison.

He had the advantage. 9 pool (JD) vs 12 hatch.

He scouted Great way too late to benefit from that.

if he scouted Great correctly, he auto won. And guess who is unlucky then?

well, ok.
What I believe is that strongest always wins.
So no matter what Flash Bisu JD will say about their losses its all means nothing, its just an excuse for the fans. I don't need it, I need their games to be good, thats it.
Trying to excuse somebody's poor performance with lack of preparation, saying "if a had more time, of course I would crush him" looks like we used to say, when we were kids "if i had a bazooka i would destroy you" etc. Its competition, we can only rant that Bisu was unlucky to have less time than the others. What I think Bisu is trying to say here, is his deep regret about not qualifying and he wants to show it to his fans, giving a nice reason to flame about SKT coach injustice and that it wasn't his fault, I think its wrong. Giving the fact that Bisu is worse player than Flash actually, Bisu should have pulled something really outstanding to get through makes all his excuses unnecessary at this point. Good luck Bisu in OSL.
letian
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany4221 Posts
April 25 2011 08:13 GMT
#151
On April 25 2011 16:56 chisuri wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 25 2011 16:45 Milkis wrote:
On April 25 2011 16:32 chisuri wrote:
On April 25 2011 16:01 Milkis wrote:
On April 25 2011 15:26 chisuri wrote:
I mean that Bisu is not making excuses here. He definitely lost, ill-prepared or whatever reason. But that was very much his coach's fault to not ALLOW him to practice. And he's telling the truth why some of you're bitching him about that. Some even say that even if he did prepare the results would not be much different. Well I can say that's too subjective. The PL matches have just showed us how important preparation is. JD lost his game kinda unlucky but you must admit his performance were kinda lacking and far far more worse than his game in group D WHERE HE WAS PREPARED. So I think that maybe he was concentrated too much on the MSL games and need a rest, that's very reasonable. And Bisu's games before showed that he was very much prepared FOR THE PL MATCH. What kind of bullshit is that? He didn't prepare for his matches in MSL but for PL match? May I mind you SKT game was one day ahead Oz game, so JD should have more time to prepare for his match, rite? Well, based on the result, he apparently not.


Stop sidestepping the point. I think at this point it's clear you have no idea how to watch ZvZ at all. Performance? Jaedong lost the second his Zerglings went the wrong direction and he knew it, of course it'll make him make desperate decisions that he knows wont work out.

Stop trying to degrade Jaedong to Bisu's level. Jaedong is someone who has handled dual starleagues with full Proleague while performing quite well. Bisu is not Lee Ssang, and part of the reason is because his team is a bitch. I do think it is an excuse and it does excuse Bisu for his MSL performance

But ffs stop trying to say Jaedong wasn't prepared in yesterday's match when he lost to 90% luck and he couldn't do anything about it after his initial choices of actions.

So JD just succumbs to luck without any further resistance? And I thought TBLS is one or two classes above the rest especially JD in ZvZ, didn't he overcome many many BO disadvantages, bad-luck scoutings before? So if his ability was enough to overcome such things before, why it didn't yesterday? Maybe (just maybe) because of his lack of preparation? You must be somewhat very bias to not see the difference between JD's preparation for his game on La Mancha and Bisu's group stage matches. And hell, just compare Bisu's game on Aztec and his MSL games. He can beat Flash with preparation, it's a fact, it happened. But he didn't have that preparation for his MSL games. And if you agree that he was lack of prep, then how come he says so is equal to finding excuses? That's not his fault. HE WANTED TO PRACTICE. HE WANTED TO PREPARE. BUT HIS COACH DIDN'T ALLOW HIM FOR CRYING OUT LOUD. Why that he says he's upset upon his coach is excusing? HE SHOULD BE VERY THANKFUL SINCE HE CAN BLAME HIS COACH FOR HIS LOSS NOW. No, he doesn't want to lose. He wants to win for his fans. And god, his coach didn't care. You haters just flame his no matter what, now even when he speaks the truth and says sorry to his fans. And hell, he just wants to compete better with the other S-class. you don't want that? You want him to not be allowed to practice so your Lee Ssang can beat him? Well, ok, I guess we have to accept that and come back to PL where Bisu is allowing to practice and watch he beats Flash and JD, especially JD consecutively. And you can enjoy your Lee Ssang's domination in SLs with one of the two other S-class isn't allowed to practice and the others is allowed to not practice and to watch manga and play Cellphone games.


Of course it's not his fault. I already said his excuse was a valid one.

I don't know what you're ranting about but you're clearly misinterpreting a lot of things I'm saying. Chillax.

So your reasons for saying JD is one level above Bisu is? As far as I remember, when JD was running for MSL, OSL and PL in 2009 he did collapse in MSL against Calm, and in PL against Fantasy, twice. And at the end of 2010 season he lost both finals to Flash and his team didn't make PL playoff, no? At the beginning of this season, Bisu performed better in PL, his team won WL playoff over Oz and KT and his past performance in SLs was equal to Flash and just slightly worse than JD. So what is the level of JD that Bisu can't reach?

the amount of those shiny little badges on his t-shirt^_^, so lets stop this useless dispute.
e_i_pi_1_0
Profile Joined September 2009
933 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-25 08:23:57
April 25 2011 08:19 GMT
#152
On April 25 2011 16:56 chisuri wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 25 2011 16:45 Milkis wrote:
On April 25 2011 16:32 chisuri wrote:
On April 25 2011 16:01 Milkis wrote:
On April 25 2011 15:26 chisuri wrote:
I mean that Bisu is not making excuses here. He definitely lost, ill-prepared or whatever reason. But that was very much his coach's fault to not ALLOW him to practice. And he's telling the truth why some of you're bitching him about that. Some even say that even if he did prepare the results would not be much different. Well I can say that's too subjective. The PL matches have just showed us how important preparation is. JD lost his game kinda unlucky but you must admit his performance were kinda lacking and far far more worse than his game in group D WHERE HE WAS PREPARED. So I think that maybe he was concentrated too much on the MSL games and need a rest, that's very reasonable. And Bisu's games before showed that he was very much prepared FOR THE PL MATCH. What kind of bullshit is that? He didn't prepare for his matches in MSL but for PL match? May I mind you SKT game was one day ahead Oz game, so JD should have more time to prepare for his match, rite? Well, based on the result, he apparently not.


Stop sidestepping the point. I think at this point it's clear you have no idea how to watch ZvZ at all. Performance? Jaedong lost the second his Zerglings went the wrong direction and he knew it, of course it'll make him make desperate decisions that he knows wont work out.

Stop trying to degrade Jaedong to Bisu's level. Jaedong is someone who has handled dual starleagues with full Proleague while performing quite well. Bisu is not Lee Ssang, and part of the reason is because his team is a bitch. I do think it is an excuse and it does excuse Bisu for his MSL performance

But ffs stop trying to say Jaedong wasn't prepared in yesterday's match when he lost to 90% luck and he couldn't do anything about it after his initial choices of actions.

So JD just succumbs to luck without any further resistance? And I thought TBLS is one or two classes above the rest especially JD in ZvZ, didn't he overcome many many BO disadvantages, bad-luck scoutings before? So if his ability was enough to overcome such things before, why it didn't yesterday? Maybe (just maybe) because of his lack of preparation? You must be somewhat very bias to not see the difference between JD's preparation for his game on La Mancha and Bisu's group stage matches. And hell, just compare Bisu's game on Aztec and his MSL games. He can beat Flash with preparation, it's a fact, it happened. But he didn't have that preparation for his MSL games. And if you agree that he was lack of prep, then how come he says so is equal to finding excuses? That's not his fault. HE WANTED TO PRACTICE. HE WANTED TO PREPARE. BUT HIS COACH DIDN'T ALLOW HIM FOR CRYING OUT LOUD. Why that he says he's upset upon his coach is excusing? HE SHOULD BE VERY THANKFUL SINCE HE CAN BLAME HIS COACH FOR HIS LOSS NOW. No, he doesn't want to lose. He wants to win for his fans. And god, his coach didn't care. You haters just flame his no matter what, now even when he speaks the truth and says sorry to his fans. And hell, he just wants to compete better with the other S-class. you don't want that? You want him to not be allowed to practice so your Lee Ssang can beat him? Well, ok, I guess we have to accept that and come back to PL where Bisu is allowing to practice and watch he beats Flash and JD, especially JD consecutively. And you can enjoy your Lee Ssang's domination in SLs with one of the two other S-class isn't allowed to practice and the others is allowed to not practice and to watch manga and play Cellphone games.


Of course it's not his fault. I already said his excuse was a valid one.

I don't know what you're ranting about but you're clearly misinterpreting a lot of things I'm saying. Chillax.

So your reasons for saying JD is one level above Bisu is? As far as I remember, when JD was running for MSL, OSL and PL in 2009 he did collapse in MSL against Calm, and in PL against Fantasy, twice. And at the end of 2010 season he lost both finals to Flash and his team didn't make PL playoff, no? At the beginning of this season, Bisu performed better in PL, his team won WL playoff over Oz and KT and his past performance in SLs was equal to Flash and just slightly worse than JD. So what is the level of JD that Bisu can't reach?

There's also the fact that Jaedong's semifinals series against Calm in MSL was one day before his semis vs Fantasy, and both of these were basically almost right after he had just lost in PL. He also won that OSL by defeating fantasy in the semis, the very person who had sniped him in PL earlier. I don't even remember if Bisu had ever made dual semifinals?

As for PL, yes, Jaedong kind of choked at the finals, but for the 2008-2009 season, Jaedong basically carried his team for most of the PL season, while still making deep runs into SLs, something Bisu has not been able to do for quite a while, even with a solid team behind him. As for the 2009-2010 season, the main reason Oz didn't make playoffs was because of the ace match choices during the first few rounds (Killer for ace), not because Jaedong failed a lot in PL. Oftentimes, JD was the only one to win.

Also, you mentioned Jaedong losing both finals to Flash. Let me ask you this: when has Bisu ever been able to make dual finals, while having to carry his PL team? Bisu hasn't made it past the Ro8 of a league since Avalon MSL, where he lost a series vs Iris that I'm pretty sure he shouldn't have lost. Unless you're referring to past as in before 2009 or something for past performance in SLs. As for comparing Bisu to Flash: Flash has made dual finals 3 times in a row.

And finally, for WL playoffs: he basically functioned as a final boss/sniper, while KT and Oz both turned back into their normal one-man teams. If he had to make multiple kills, I wouldn't have been certain SKT would've won.
Jaedong and Hwaseung Oz fan.
chisuri
Profile Joined January 2010
Vietnam789 Posts
April 25 2011 08:26 GMT
#153
On April 25 2011 17:11 letian wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 25 2011 16:33 chisuri wrote:
On April 25 2011 16:19 letian wrote:
On April 25 2011 15:27 chisuri wrote:
On April 25 2011 15:20 moopie wrote:
On April 25 2011 15:11 chisuri wrote:
I don't compare Bisu's games vs Flash to JD's game yesterday. I compare his performance in the match with ACE to JD's match with KHAN to show that maybe JD was too focus on the MSL group rather than prepare for PL match leading to his poor display yesterday.

JD lost a zvz with a bo disadvantage. Bisu beat ACE players. Not really a fair comparison.

He had the advantage. 9 pool (JD) vs 12 hatch.

He scouted Great way too late to benefit from that.

if he scouted Great correctly, he auto won. And guess who is unlucky then?

well, ok.
What I believe is that strongest always wins.
So no matter what Flash Bisu JD will say about their losses its all means nothing, its just an excuse for the fans. I don't need it, I need their games to be good, thats it.
Trying to excuse somebody's poor performance with lack of preparation, saying "if a had more time, of course I would crush him" looks like we used to say, when we were kids "if i had a bazooka i would destroy you" etc. Its competition, we can only rant that Bisu was unlucky to have less time than the others. What I think Bisu is trying to say here, is his deep regret about not qualifying and he wants to show it to his fans, giving a nice reason to flame about SKT coach injustice and that it wasn't his fault, I think its wrong. Giving the fact that Bisu is worse player than Flash actually, Bisu should have pulled something really outstanding to get through makes all his excuses unnecessary at this point. Good luck Bisu in OSL.

You truly make me speechless...
Just want to say one last thing, hoping that I can make you understand my point of view. your example and comparison is meaningless. You will never have a bazooka, and even if you have that's unfair. How can giving Bisu the same amount to practice as other competitors be unfair and injustice then? And hell, his complaint about his coach is very much true, many people knew that for years and until today, it's the first time he speak it out loud. Have you ever read Bisu's interview? If you have, has he ever spoken about smt like that, smt can bring him a lot of troubles? He must be restrain it for too long and can't take it anymore. If you don't know what he is suffering plz don't belittle him.
Milkis
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
5003 Posts
April 25 2011 08:34 GMT
#154
On April 25 2011 16:56 chisuri wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 25 2011 16:45 Milkis wrote:
On April 25 2011 16:32 chisuri wrote:
On April 25 2011 16:01 Milkis wrote:
On April 25 2011 15:26 chisuri wrote:
I mean that Bisu is not making excuses here. He definitely lost, ill-prepared or whatever reason. But that was very much his coach's fault to not ALLOW him to practice. And he's telling the truth why some of you're bitching him about that. Some even say that even if he did prepare the results would not be much different. Well I can say that's too subjective. The PL matches have just showed us how important preparation is. JD lost his game kinda unlucky but you must admit his performance were kinda lacking and far far more worse than his game in group D WHERE HE WAS PREPARED. So I think that maybe he was concentrated too much on the MSL games and need a rest, that's very reasonable. And Bisu's games before showed that he was very much prepared FOR THE PL MATCH. What kind of bullshit is that? He didn't prepare for his matches in MSL but for PL match? May I mind you SKT game was one day ahead Oz game, so JD should have more time to prepare for his match, rite? Well, based on the result, he apparently not.


Stop sidestepping the point. I think at this point it's clear you have no idea how to watch ZvZ at all. Performance? Jaedong lost the second his Zerglings went the wrong direction and he knew it, of course it'll make him make desperate decisions that he knows wont work out.

Stop trying to degrade Jaedong to Bisu's level. Jaedong is someone who has handled dual starleagues with full Proleague while performing quite well. Bisu is not Lee Ssang, and part of the reason is because his team is a bitch. I do think it is an excuse and it does excuse Bisu for his MSL performance

But ffs stop trying to say Jaedong wasn't prepared in yesterday's match when he lost to 90% luck and he couldn't do anything about it after his initial choices of actions.

So JD just succumbs to luck without any further resistance? And I thought TBLS is one or two classes above the rest especially JD in ZvZ, didn't he overcome many many BO disadvantages, bad-luck scoutings before? So if his ability was enough to overcome such things before, why it didn't yesterday? Maybe (just maybe) because of his lack of preparation? You must be somewhat very bias to not see the difference between JD's preparation for his game on La Mancha and Bisu's group stage matches. And hell, just compare Bisu's game on Aztec and his MSL games. He can beat Flash with preparation, it's a fact, it happened. But he didn't have that preparation for his MSL games. And if you agree that he was lack of prep, then how come he says so is equal to finding excuses? That's not his fault. HE WANTED TO PRACTICE. HE WANTED TO PREPARE. BUT HIS COACH DIDN'T ALLOW HIM FOR CRYING OUT LOUD. Why that he says he's upset upon his coach is excusing? HE SHOULD BE VERY THANKFUL SINCE HE CAN BLAME HIS COACH FOR HIS LOSS NOW. No, he doesn't want to lose. He wants to win for his fans. And god, his coach didn't care. You haters just flame his no matter what, now even when he speaks the truth and says sorry to his fans. And hell, he just wants to compete better with the other S-class. you don't want that? You want him to not be allowed to practice so your Lee Ssang can beat him? Well, ok, I guess we have to accept that and come back to PL where Bisu is allowing to practice and watch he beats Flash and JD, especially JD consecutively. And you can enjoy your Lee Ssang's domination in SLs with one of the two other S-class isn't allowed to practice and the others is allowed to not practice and to watch manga and play Cellphone games.


Of course it's not his fault. I already said his excuse was a valid one.

I don't know what you're ranting about but you're clearly misinterpreting a lot of things I'm saying. Chillax.

So your reasons for saying JD is one level above Bisu is? As far as I remember, when JD was running for MSL, OSL and PL in 2009 he did collapse in MSL against Calm, and in PL against Fantasy, twice. And at the end of 2010 season he lost both finals to Flash and his team didn't make PL playoff, no? At the beginning of this season, Bisu performed better in PL, his team won WL playoff over Oz and KT and his past performance in SLs was equal to Flash and just slightly worse than JD. So what is the level of JD that Bisu can't reach?


My reason for saying JD is one level above Bisu is mentality and playstyle. The point is Jaedong handles dual starleagues and playstyle and he won't complain about it. Of course he can lose even if he's prepared, or maybe because he's not as prepared as he wants himself to be.

Are you seriously saying that his team not making it to PL Playoff is JD's fault? And honestly Bisu's team winning over Oz and KT is the fault of JD or Flash? Stop confounding effects and then we can talk about this -- you seem to enjoy combining effects arbitrary that are outside of the player's control and putting it in there.

All I'm saying is that JD and Flash can swallow similar schedules and still make it to dual leagues consistently, Bisu hasn't made it past Round of 16 for quite a long time. I'm not 100% convinced this is simply due to SKT's practice regime either.

Not every team can be Hite/CJ I guess.
chisuri
Profile Joined January 2010
Vietnam789 Posts
April 25 2011 08:45 GMT
#155
On April 25 2011 17:19 e_i_pi_1_0 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 25 2011 16:56 chisuri wrote:
On April 25 2011 16:45 Milkis wrote:
On April 25 2011 16:32 chisuri wrote:
On April 25 2011 16:01 Milkis wrote:
On April 25 2011 15:26 chisuri wrote:
I mean that Bisu is not making excuses here. He definitely lost, ill-prepared or whatever reason. But that was very much his coach's fault to not ALLOW him to practice. And he's telling the truth why some of you're bitching him about that. Some even say that even if he did prepare the results would not be much different. Well I can say that's too subjective. The PL matches have just showed us how important preparation is. JD lost his game kinda unlucky but you must admit his performance were kinda lacking and far far more worse than his game in group D WHERE HE WAS PREPARED. So I think that maybe he was concentrated too much on the MSL games and need a rest, that's very reasonable. And Bisu's games before showed that he was very much prepared FOR THE PL MATCH. What kind of bullshit is that? He didn't prepare for his matches in MSL but for PL match? May I mind you SKT game was one day ahead Oz game, so JD should have more time to prepare for his match, rite? Well, based on the result, he apparently not.


Stop sidestepping the point. I think at this point it's clear you have no idea how to watch ZvZ at all. Performance? Jaedong lost the second his Zerglings went the wrong direction and he knew it, of course it'll make him make desperate decisions that he knows wont work out.

Stop trying to degrade Jaedong to Bisu's level. Jaedong is someone who has handled dual starleagues with full Proleague while performing quite well. Bisu is not Lee Ssang, and part of the reason is because his team is a bitch. I do think it is an excuse and it does excuse Bisu for his MSL performance

But ffs stop trying to say Jaedong wasn't prepared in yesterday's match when he lost to 90% luck and he couldn't do anything about it after his initial choices of actions.

So JD just succumbs to luck without any further resistance? And I thought TBLS is one or two classes above the rest especially JD in ZvZ, didn't he overcome many many BO disadvantages, bad-luck scoutings before? So if his ability was enough to overcome such things before, why it didn't yesterday? Maybe (just maybe) because of his lack of preparation? You must be somewhat very bias to not see the difference between JD's preparation for his game on La Mancha and Bisu's group stage matches. And hell, just compare Bisu's game on Aztec and his MSL games. He can beat Flash with preparation, it's a fact, it happened. But he didn't have that preparation for his MSL games. And if you agree that he was lack of prep, then how come he says so is equal to finding excuses? That's not his fault. HE WANTED TO PRACTICE. HE WANTED TO PREPARE. BUT HIS COACH DIDN'T ALLOW HIM FOR CRYING OUT LOUD. Why that he says he's upset upon his coach is excusing? HE SHOULD BE VERY THANKFUL SINCE HE CAN BLAME HIS COACH FOR HIS LOSS NOW. No, he doesn't want to lose. He wants to win for his fans. And god, his coach didn't care. You haters just flame his no matter what, now even when he speaks the truth and says sorry to his fans. And hell, he just wants to compete better with the other S-class. you don't want that? You want him to not be allowed to practice so your Lee Ssang can beat him? Well, ok, I guess we have to accept that and come back to PL where Bisu is allowing to practice and watch he beats Flash and JD, especially JD consecutively. And you can enjoy your Lee Ssang's domination in SLs with one of the two other S-class isn't allowed to practice and the others is allowed to not practice and to watch manga and play Cellphone games.


Of course it's not his fault. I already said his excuse was a valid one.

I don't know what you're ranting about but you're clearly misinterpreting a lot of things I'm saying. Chillax.

So your reasons for saying JD is one level above Bisu is? As far as I remember, when JD was running for MSL, OSL and PL in 2009 he did collapse in MSL against Calm, and in PL against Fantasy, twice. And at the end of 2010 season he lost both finals to Flash and his team didn't make PL playoff, no? At the beginning of this season, Bisu performed better in PL, his team won WL playoff over Oz and KT and his past performance in SLs was equal to Flash and just slightly worse than JD. So what is the level of JD that Bisu can't reach?

There's also the fact that Jaedong's semifinals series against Calm in MSL was one day before his semis vs Fantasy, and both of these were basically almost right after he had just lost in PL. He also won that OSL by defeating fantasy in the semis, the very person who had sniped him in PL earlier. I don't even remember if Bisu had ever made dual semifinals?

As for PL, yes, Jaedong kind of choked at the finals, but for the 2008-2009 season, Jaedong basically carried his team for most of the PL season, while still making deep runs into SLs, something Bisu has not been able to do for quite a while, even with a solid team behind him. As for the 2009-2010 season, the main reason Oz didn't make playoffs was because of the ace match choices during the first few rounds (Killer for ace), not because Jaedong failed a lot in PL. Oftentimes, JD was the only one to win.

Also, you mentioned Jaedong losing both finals to Flash. Let me ask you this: when has Bisu ever been able to make dual finals, while having to carry his PL team? Bisu hasn't made it past the Ro8 of a league since Avalon MSL, where he lost a series vs Iris that I'm pretty sure he shouldn't have lost. Unless you're referring to past as in before 2009 or something for past performance in SLs. As for comparing Bisu to Flash: Flash has made dual finals 3 times in a row.

And finally, for WL playoffs: he basically functioned as a final boss/sniper, while KT and Oz both turned back into their normal one-man teams. If he had to make multiple kills, I wouldn't have been certain SKT would've won.

In 2010 Bisu was slumping hard. That makes his comeback and current performance even more incredible. And you can't see since Bisu came back he have been beating JD consecutively? In 2007 and 2008 and even now, when Bisu was and is performing well, what makes JD a level above him? If i'm not mistaken, when Bisu is performing well, he also very much carries his team from MBC to SKT1. And I will repeat it one more time, even when Flash and JD have to carry their teams, they only need to prepare for 2 games per match in PL, the very same amount of Bisu's preparation. And about the sniper role in WL playoff, lol. Bisu and JD were both sent out last. Nobody can assure how the 3 first players of each team would perform so that the preparation of both should be the same. The same about Flash, nobody can predict how the match would turn out to be.
I admit JD and Flash's achievements are amazing. But even though JD is more consistent, when Bisu's at his peak (before and now) he seems to be the one a level above JD.
letian
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany4221 Posts
April 25 2011 08:54 GMT
#156
On April 25 2011 17:26 chisuri wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 25 2011 17:11 letian wrote:
On April 25 2011 16:33 chisuri wrote:
On April 25 2011 16:19 letian wrote:
On April 25 2011 15:27 chisuri wrote:
On April 25 2011 15:20 moopie wrote:
On April 25 2011 15:11 chisuri wrote:
I don't compare Bisu's games vs Flash to JD's game yesterday. I compare his performance in the match with ACE to JD's match with KHAN to show that maybe JD was too focus on the MSL group rather than prepare for PL match leading to his poor display yesterday.

JD lost a zvz with a bo disadvantage. Bisu beat ACE players. Not really a fair comparison.

He had the advantage. 9 pool (JD) vs 12 hatch.

He scouted Great way too late to benefit from that.

if he scouted Great correctly, he auto won. And guess who is unlucky then?

well, ok.
What I believe is that strongest always wins.
So no matter what Flash Bisu JD will say about their losses its all means nothing, its just an excuse for the fans. I don't need it, I need their games to be good, thats it.
Trying to excuse somebody's poor performance with lack of preparation, saying "if a had more time, of course I would crush him" looks like we used to say, when we were kids "if i had a bazooka i would destroy you" etc. Its competition, we can only rant that Bisu was unlucky to have less time than the others. What I think Bisu is trying to say here, is his deep regret about not qualifying and he wants to show it to his fans, giving a nice reason to flame about SKT coach injustice and that it wasn't his fault, I think its wrong. Giving the fact that Bisu is worse player than Flash actually, Bisu should have pulled something really outstanding to get through makes all his excuses unnecessary at this point. Good luck Bisu in OSL.

You truly make me speechless...
Just want to say one last thing, hoping that I can make you understand my point of view. your example and comparison is meaningless. You will never have a bazooka, and even if you have that's unfair. How can giving Bisu the same amount to practice as other competitors be unfair and injustice then? And hell, his complaint about his coach is very much true, many people knew that for years and until today, it's the first time he speak it out loud. Have you ever read Bisu's interview? If you have, has he ever spoken about smt like that, smt can bring him a lot of troubles? He must be restrain it for too long and can't take it anymore. If you don't know what he is suffering plz don't belittle him.

All I want to say is that Bisu's individual performance has always been poorer than PL's, and yes maybe you're right and it all because of the coaching policy in SKT. It's just that I feel like its unnecessary to complain about coaches and lack of time, when you are just worse than the other player. Why try to look for some questionable reasons for your loss other than admit that you're worse and will prepare even more to win and finally be the best?. This is what I don't like.
chisuri
Profile Joined January 2010
Vietnam789 Posts
April 25 2011 08:57 GMT
#157
On April 25 2011 17:34 Milkis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 25 2011 16:56 chisuri wrote:
On April 25 2011 16:45 Milkis wrote:
On April 25 2011 16:32 chisuri wrote:
On April 25 2011 16:01 Milkis wrote:
On April 25 2011 15:26 chisuri wrote:
I mean that Bisu is not making excuses here. He definitely lost, ill-prepared or whatever reason. But that was very much his coach's fault to not ALLOW him to practice. And he's telling the truth why some of you're bitching him about that. Some even say that even if he did prepare the results would not be much different. Well I can say that's too subjective. The PL matches have just showed us how important preparation is. JD lost his game kinda unlucky but you must admit his performance were kinda lacking and far far more worse than his game in group D WHERE HE WAS PREPARED. So I think that maybe he was concentrated too much on the MSL games and need a rest, that's very reasonable. And Bisu's games before showed that he was very much prepared FOR THE PL MATCH. What kind of bullshit is that? He didn't prepare for his matches in MSL but for PL match? May I mind you SKT game was one day ahead Oz game, so JD should have more time to prepare for his match, rite? Well, based on the result, he apparently not.


Stop sidestepping the point. I think at this point it's clear you have no idea how to watch ZvZ at all. Performance? Jaedong lost the second his Zerglings went the wrong direction and he knew it, of course it'll make him make desperate decisions that he knows wont work out.

Stop trying to degrade Jaedong to Bisu's level. Jaedong is someone who has handled dual starleagues with full Proleague while performing quite well. Bisu is not Lee Ssang, and part of the reason is because his team is a bitch. I do think it is an excuse and it does excuse Bisu for his MSL performance

But ffs stop trying to say Jaedong wasn't prepared in yesterday's match when he lost to 90% luck and he couldn't do anything about it after his initial choices of actions.

So JD just succumbs to luck without any further resistance? And I thought TBLS is one or two classes above the rest especially JD in ZvZ, didn't he overcome many many BO disadvantages, bad-luck scoutings before? So if his ability was enough to overcome such things before, why it didn't yesterday? Maybe (just maybe) because of his lack of preparation? You must be somewhat very bias to not see the difference between JD's preparation for his game on La Mancha and Bisu's group stage matches. And hell, just compare Bisu's game on Aztec and his MSL games. He can beat Flash with preparation, it's a fact, it happened. But he didn't have that preparation for his MSL games. And if you agree that he was lack of prep, then how come he says so is equal to finding excuses? That's not his fault. HE WANTED TO PRACTICE. HE WANTED TO PREPARE. BUT HIS COACH DIDN'T ALLOW HIM FOR CRYING OUT LOUD. Why that he says he's upset upon his coach is excusing? HE SHOULD BE VERY THANKFUL SINCE HE CAN BLAME HIS COACH FOR HIS LOSS NOW. No, he doesn't want to lose. He wants to win for his fans. And god, his coach didn't care. You haters just flame his no matter what, now even when he speaks the truth and says sorry to his fans. And hell, he just wants to compete better with the other S-class. you don't want that? You want him to not be allowed to practice so your Lee Ssang can beat him? Well, ok, I guess we have to accept that and come back to PL where Bisu is allowing to practice and watch he beats Flash and JD, especially JD consecutively. And you can enjoy your Lee Ssang's domination in SLs with one of the two other S-class isn't allowed to practice and the others is allowed to not practice and to watch manga and play Cellphone games.


Of course it's not his fault. I already said his excuse was a valid one.

I don't know what you're ranting about but you're clearly misinterpreting a lot of things I'm saying. Chillax.

So your reasons for saying JD is one level above Bisu is? As far as I remember, when JD was running for MSL, OSL and PL in 2009 he did collapse in MSL against Calm, and in PL against Fantasy, twice. And at the end of 2010 season he lost both finals to Flash and his team didn't make PL playoff, no? At the beginning of this season, Bisu performed better in PL, his team won WL playoff over Oz and KT and his past performance in SLs was equal to Flash and just slightly worse than JD. So what is the level of JD that Bisu can't reach?


My reason for saying JD is one level above Bisu is mentality and playstyle. The point is Jaedong handles dual starleagues and playstyle and he won't complain about it. Of course he can lose even if he's prepared, or maybe because he's not as prepared as he wants himself to be.

Are you seriously saying that his team not making it to PL Playoff is JD's fault? And honestly Bisu's team winning over Oz and KT is the fault of JD or Flash? Stop confounding effects and then we can talk about this -- you seem to enjoy combining effects arbitrary that are outside of the player's control and putting it in there.

All I'm saying is that JD and Flash can swallow similar schedules and still make it to dual leagues consistently, Bisu hasn't made it past Round of 16 for quite a long time. I'm not 100% convinced this is simply due to SKT's practice regime either.

Not every team can be Hite/CJ I guess.

But the outside factors which players can't control are sometimes beneficial for them. For example, the bracket. JD lost to Bisu quite plenty of times and he rarely faced Bisu in SLs before. Even when they were in the same group, Bisu couldn't play with JD, which could have made a difference. Likewise, Flash rarely runs to Stork when he's at his peak (except from the catastrophic OSL final). And Protoss is the race having a inconsistent nature. Watch the top P players 1-2 years ago and what happened to them. Kal is the best P last year, where is he now? Where is Free and what happened to him? Why the most dominating and consistent players up till today is Terrans (Nada and Flash and Oov)? Of course JD and Flash have more achievement but saying they are 1 level above Bisu and Stork is quite not convincing. Flash maybe, but JD definitely not.
chisuri
Profile Joined January 2010
Vietnam789 Posts
April 25 2011 09:01 GMT
#158
On April 25 2011 17:54 letian wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 25 2011 17:26 chisuri wrote:
On April 25 2011 17:11 letian wrote:
On April 25 2011 16:33 chisuri wrote:
On April 25 2011 16:19 letian wrote:
On April 25 2011 15:27 chisuri wrote:
On April 25 2011 15:20 moopie wrote:
On April 25 2011 15:11 chisuri wrote:
I don't compare Bisu's games vs Flash to JD's game yesterday. I compare his performance in the match with ACE to JD's match with KHAN to show that maybe JD was too focus on the MSL group rather than prepare for PL match leading to his poor display yesterday.

JD lost a zvz with a bo disadvantage. Bisu beat ACE players. Not really a fair comparison.

He had the advantage. 9 pool (JD) vs 12 hatch.

He scouted Great way too late to benefit from that.

if he scouted Great correctly, he auto won. And guess who is unlucky then?

well, ok.
What I believe is that strongest always wins.
So no matter what Flash Bisu JD will say about their losses its all means nothing, its just an excuse for the fans. I don't need it, I need their games to be good, thats it.
Trying to excuse somebody's poor performance with lack of preparation, saying "if a had more time, of course I would crush him" looks like we used to say, when we were kids "if i had a bazooka i would destroy you" etc. Its competition, we can only rant that Bisu was unlucky to have less time than the others. What I think Bisu is trying to say here, is his deep regret about not qualifying and he wants to show it to his fans, giving a nice reason to flame about SKT coach injustice and that it wasn't his fault, I think its wrong. Giving the fact that Bisu is worse player than Flash actually, Bisu should have pulled something really outstanding to get through makes all his excuses unnecessary at this point. Good luck Bisu in OSL.

You truly make me speechless...
Just want to say one last thing, hoping that I can make you understand my point of view. your example and comparison is meaningless. You will never have a bazooka, and even if you have that's unfair. How can giving Bisu the same amount to practice as other competitors be unfair and injustice then? And hell, his complaint about his coach is very much true, many people knew that for years and until today, it's the first time he speak it out loud. Have you ever read Bisu's interview? If you have, has he ever spoken about smt like that, smt can bring him a lot of troubles? He must be restrain it for too long and can't take it anymore. If you don't know what he is suffering plz don't belittle him.

All I want to say is that Bisu's individual performance has always been poorer than PL's, and yes maybe you're right and it all because of the coaching policy in SKT. It's just that I feel like its unnecessary to complain about coaches and lack of time, when you are just worse than the other player. Why try to look for some questionable reasons for your loss other than admit that you're worse and will prepare even more to win and finally be the best?. This is what I don't like.

The reason is not questionable. He didn't be allowed to practice, he didn't familiar with the maps and his decisions on the spot is not good. That's why he lost. That reason is directly originate from his coach's decision. And it has been for years now. And it's the 1st time he complains. You should try to take unfair treatment for years and try to not complain, then come back here and criticize Bisu.
The only questionable thing here is whether he lied or not. He didn't. It's not new and many people knows that.
kamikami
Profile Joined November 2010
France1057 Posts
April 25 2011 09:06 GMT
#159
On April 25 2011 17:34 Milkis wrote:
My reason for saying JD is one level above Bisu is mentality and playstyle. The point is Jaedong handles dual starleagues and playstyle and he won't complain about it. Of course he can lose even if he's prepared, or maybe because he's not as prepared as he wants himself to be.



Seriously the "level" in starcraft is about skills and results, it has nothing to do with "complaining" or "BM" or "cool" or any other bullshit. Based on your logic I can say that Bisu is one level above Jaedong because he has better look than Jaedong (because my definition of "level" is base on that), and the same can be said for Jaedong vs Flash.

Jaedong cannot be one level above either Bisu or Flash simply because he lost to them way more than he won against them in normal games that focus on mechanics/multitask/macro/micro... or any other game skills. You cannot just constantly lose to a guy and still go "i'm one level above him lol".

My point is, results and skills speak, not some stupid subjective factors.
Khassar de Templari
letian
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany4221 Posts
April 25 2011 09:06 GMT
#160
On April 25 2011 17:45 chisuri wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 25 2011 17:19 e_i_pi_1_0 wrote:
On April 25 2011 16:56 chisuri wrote:
On April 25 2011 16:45 Milkis wrote:
On April 25 2011 16:32 chisuri wrote:
On April 25 2011 16:01 Milkis wrote:
On April 25 2011 15:26 chisuri wrote:
I mean that Bisu is not making excuses here. He definitely lost, ill-prepared or whatever reason. But that was very much his coach's fault to not ALLOW him to practice. And he's telling the truth why some of you're bitching him about that. Some even say that even if he did prepare the results would not be much different. Well I can say that's too subjective. The PL matches have just showed us how important preparation is. JD lost his game kinda unlucky but you must admit his performance were kinda lacking and far far more worse than his game in group D WHERE HE WAS PREPARED. So I think that maybe he was concentrated too much on the MSL games and need a rest, that's very reasonable. And Bisu's games before showed that he was very much prepared FOR THE PL MATCH. What kind of bullshit is that? He didn't prepare for his matches in MSL but for PL match? May I mind you SKT game was one day ahead Oz game, so JD should have more time to prepare for his match, rite? Well, based on the result, he apparently not.


Stop sidestepping the point. I think at this point it's clear you have no idea how to watch ZvZ at all. Performance? Jaedong lost the second his Zerglings went the wrong direction and he knew it, of course it'll make him make desperate decisions that he knows wont work out.

Stop trying to degrade Jaedong to Bisu's level. Jaedong is someone who has handled dual starleagues with full Proleague while performing quite well. Bisu is not Lee Ssang, and part of the reason is because his team is a bitch. I do think it is an excuse and it does excuse Bisu for his MSL performance

But ffs stop trying to say Jaedong wasn't prepared in yesterday's match when he lost to 90% luck and he couldn't do anything about it after his initial choices of actions.

So JD just succumbs to luck without any further resistance? And I thought TBLS is one or two classes above the rest especially JD in ZvZ, didn't he overcome many many BO disadvantages, bad-luck scoutings before? So if his ability was enough to overcome such things before, why it didn't yesterday? Maybe (just maybe) because of his lack of preparation? You must be somewhat very bias to not see the difference between JD's preparation for his game on La Mancha and Bisu's group stage matches. And hell, just compare Bisu's game on Aztec and his MSL games. He can beat Flash with preparation, it's a fact, it happened. But he didn't have that preparation for his MSL games. And if you agree that he was lack of prep, then how come he says so is equal to finding excuses? That's not his fault. HE WANTED TO PRACTICE. HE WANTED TO PREPARE. BUT HIS COACH DIDN'T ALLOW HIM FOR CRYING OUT LOUD. Why that he says he's upset upon his coach is excusing? HE SHOULD BE VERY THANKFUL SINCE HE CAN BLAME HIS COACH FOR HIS LOSS NOW. No, he doesn't want to lose. He wants to win for his fans. And god, his coach didn't care. You haters just flame his no matter what, now even when he speaks the truth and says sorry to his fans. And hell, he just wants to compete better with the other S-class. you don't want that? You want him to not be allowed to practice so your Lee Ssang can beat him? Well, ok, I guess we have to accept that and come back to PL where Bisu is allowing to practice and watch he beats Flash and JD, especially JD consecutively. And you can enjoy your Lee Ssang's domination in SLs with one of the two other S-class isn't allowed to practice and the others is allowed to not practice and to watch manga and play Cellphone games.


Of course it's not his fault. I already said his excuse was a valid one.

I don't know what you're ranting about but you're clearly misinterpreting a lot of things I'm saying. Chillax.

So your reasons for saying JD is one level above Bisu is? As far as I remember, when JD was running for MSL, OSL and PL in 2009 he did collapse in MSL against Calm, and in PL against Fantasy, twice. And at the end of 2010 season he lost both finals to Flash and his team didn't make PL playoff, no? At the beginning of this season, Bisu performed better in PL, his team won WL playoff over Oz and KT and his past performance in SLs was equal to Flash and just slightly worse than JD. So what is the level of JD that Bisu can't reach?

There's also the fact that Jaedong's semifinals series against Calm in MSL was one day before his semis vs Fantasy, and both of these were basically almost right after he had just lost in PL. He also won that OSL by defeating fantasy in the semis, the very person who had sniped him in PL earlier. I don't even remember if Bisu had ever made dual semifinals?

As for PL, yes, Jaedong kind of choked at the finals, but for the 2008-2009 season, Jaedong basically carried his team for most of the PL season, while still making deep runs into SLs, something Bisu has not been able to do for quite a while, even with a solid team behind him. As for the 2009-2010 season, the main reason Oz didn't make playoffs was because of the ace match choices during the first few rounds (Killer for ace), not because Jaedong failed a lot in PL. Oftentimes, JD was the only one to win.

Also, you mentioned Jaedong losing both finals to Flash. Let me ask you this: when has Bisu ever been able to make dual finals, while having to carry his PL team? Bisu hasn't made it past the Ro8 of a league since Avalon MSL, where he lost a series vs Iris that I'm pretty sure he shouldn't have lost. Unless you're referring to past as in before 2009 or something for past performance in SLs. As for comparing Bisu to Flash: Flash has made dual finals 3 times in a row.

And finally, for WL playoffs: he basically functioned as a final boss/sniper, while KT and Oz both turned back into their normal one-man teams. If he had to make multiple kills, I wouldn't have been certain SKT would've won.

In 2010 Bisu was slumping hard. That makes his comeback and current performance even more incredible. And you can't see since Bisu came back he have been beating JD consecutively? In 2007 and 2008 and even now, when Bisu was and is performing well, what makes JD a level above him? If i'm not mistaken, when Bisu is performing well, he also very much carries his team from MBC to SKT1. And I will repeat it one more time, even when Flash and JD have to carry their teams, they only need to prepare for 2 games per match in PL, the very same amount of Bisu's preparation. And about the sniper role in WL playoff, lol. Bisu and JD were both sent out last. Nobody can assure how the 3 first players of each team would perform so that the preparation of both should be the same. The same about Flash, nobody can predict how the match would turn out to be.
I admit JD and Flash's achievements are amazing. But even though JD is more consistent, when Bisu's at his peak (before and now) he seems to be the one a level above JD.

look man, what you wanna say is that Bisu is at his peak now, and he's out of MSL already because of SKT and WL? Well thats a poor argument and ppl here have already told you why. You know that if Bisu were better than JD, he would have won MSL's and OSL's. You excuse him by being in a slump at that time? So then being in a slump is not being a worse player? And if you're a true Bisu fan you should know that he has never won a bo match against JD. Yes he has a record against him, but hell does he have a record in other mathups. JD has been consistent all the time in PL and individuals his entire career, taking 2-3-1 places, were was Bisu? Slumping? I don't think you are serious.
Prev 1 6 7 8 9 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
08:00
Enki Pro Series #9
Rogue vs ClassicLIVE!
CranKy Ducklings SOOP52
CranKy Ducklings28
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RuFF_SC2 224
Codebar 46
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 2437
GuemChi 1335
JimRising 716
Artosis 599
ProTech156
Bale 68
910 53
Snow 27
Force[name] 6
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm207
Counter-Strike
summit1g9909
fl0m3662
taco 332
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox392
Other Games
singsing1616
Doublelift1571
XaKoH 626
Day[9].tv603
C9.Mang0337
PiGStarcraft230
amsayoshi171
Maynarde120
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick567
Counter-Strike
PGL227
[ Show 11 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Laughngamez YouTube
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Other Games
• Day9tv603
• Shiphtur297
Upcoming Events
Patches Events
9h 22m
PiGosaur Cup
21h 22m
Kung Fu Cup
1d 7h
Replay Cast
1d 19h
The PondCast
2 days
KCM Race Survival
2 days
OSC
2 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
4 days
Reynor vs Solar
ByuN vs SHIN
Clem vs MaxPax
herO vs Rogue
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
IPSL
4 days
WorsT vs nOmaD
Dewalt vs andersOn
[ Show More ]
IntoTheTV X SOOP
5 days
WardiTV Invitational
5 days
IPSL
5 days
Azhi_Dahaki vs ggnore13
Double vs WIZARD
Replay Cast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-11-02
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
International ShieldBattery League
BSL Season 23
IPSL Winter 2026-27
Calamity Cup Div. A Season 8
IEM Beijing 2026
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026

Upcoming

1xBet Invitational
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
BLAST Bounty Winter 2027
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.