[Interview] SPL ACE vs SKT Winners

On April 24 2011 05:45 infinitestory wrote:
Anything else?
In the MSL Ro32, so many people came to cheer me on, but I now have to apologize to all my fans. I even said that this time I have to get the gold medal, but I couldn't do it. After the Clubday MSL, I said I would repeat for sure, but that promise has gone unfulfilled for a year or two now. I feel guilty toward my fans. In the future, I'll perform spectacularly. I don't feel deserving of fan support right now, but I hope everyone has a good time watching my games.

On April 24 2011 06:12 Yxes2211 wrote:
Bisu I love u bro, but Flash had the same amount of practice time as u, since he was also in WL finals.

Don't flame me Bisu fans >.<

On April 24 2011 06:22 jaQi wrote:



I guess he mean the whole practice time, like he has to practice during SWL Playoffs 1st for Hite then for Oz then for KT, and after that he had exactly 2 days for Group D and he decided to give himself a little breath, while other players have practiced before and where not so exhausted like him after SWL PO finals. Thats my interpretation but i could be wrong.

But I am glad he sounds confident, not like all the other standard Bisu interviews.

On April 24 2011 06:31 3xiLe wrote:
I'm going to get a lot of flack for this but I still find it funny that they came as close as they did (sure, they may have won but only 4-3.... against ACE). To be honest.... comming that close is even embarassing.

On April 24 2011 06:38 renzy wrote:
Just a little correction: according to the Chinese article, Bisu didn't say "if only I had one more day to practice." He said, if only I could have practiced and prepared more.

On April 24 2011 06:42 renzy wrote:


Well, it's at least better than being 1 spot below ACE at the end of round 2, now isn't it. *cough* KT.

On April 24 2011 06:49 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Bisu with a huge pile of excuses like always ~_~

On April 24 2011 06:38 renzy wrote:
Just a little correction: according to the Chinese article, Bisu didn't say "if only I had one more day to practice." He said, if only I could have practiced and prepared more.

On April 24 2011 05:45 infinitestory wrote:
To the fans who have supported me, I'm embarrassed to even show my face.

On April 24 2011 05:45 infinitestory wrote:
To the fans who have supported me, I'm embarrassed to even show my face.

On April 24 2011 08:15 Slow Motion wrote:
No wonder pro gamers don't speak their minds more often. Just look at some of the responses in here compared to the relative innocuousness of Bisu's statements.

On April 24 2011 09:05 hmmm... wrote:


yeah seriously. i'm not a bisu fan but i really feel for the guy. i could tell coach park didn't give a rat's ass about individual leagues from a while ago, probably b/c he only focuses on proleague so that he can satisfy the SK Telecom company who are the ones providing him and his team with the paycheck.

you can tell, when a player goes back to the waiting room after playing a game in an individual league, players from all other teams are with their head coaches but only in SKT is the player with iloveoov, not coach park. of course iloveoov is a good coach but coach park is the head coach and hence has sway over the player's allocation of practice time.

anyone, regardless of whether they're bisu fans or not, shouldn't be saying bad things about bisu right now. if anything, give him some support, he deserves it.

On April 24 2011 09:12 cosiant wrote:
Never understood why in teamliquid Bisu received more than his share of hate.

On April 24 2011 09:24 bearbuddy wrote:


Cause TL is strongly zerg biased. Flash is the lol-turtle terran who took massive heat in the 2009-2010 season because he keeps failing out of individual leagues while he carried KT (to the point that there was a time period when some people think Fantasy might become a better player than Flash). Bisu is the lol-easy toss who hasn't had any decent run in an individual league. Jaedong is the destroyer. Yup. Not a lol-cheesy 2-hatch zerg. I don't think it has anything anymore with Savior, since most Savior fans have pretty much left the scene.

On April 24 2011 09:24 bearbuddy wrote:


Cause TL is strongly zerg biased. Flash is the lol-turtle terran who took massive heat in the 2008-2009 season because he keeps failing out of individual leagues while he carried KT (to the point that there was a time period when some people think Fantasy might become a better player than Flash). Bisu is the lol-easy toss who hasn't had any decent run in an individual league. Jaedong is the destroyer. Yup. Not a lol-cheesy 2-hatch zerg. I don't think it has anything anymore with Savior, since most Savior fans have pretty much left the scene.

On April 24 2011 08:20 Turgid wrote:


Damn. So rough on himself.

On April 24 2011 09:30 _romantic wrote:


Fixed. Flash won two MSLs and two OSLs in 2009-10

On April 24 2011 09:12 cosiant wrote:
Never understood why in teamliquid Bisu received more than his share of hate.

On April 24 2011 09:05 GTR wrote:
I don't think he'll ever win an individual league ever again as long as Flash and Jaedong are around.

On April 24 2011 10:19 Tempest[OEC] wrote:
I am interested to see the Korean netizen reaction to this interview. Can anyone post some of the comments?

On April 24 2011 10:44 e_i_pi_1_0 wrote:

There's rather a lot of comments on the fomos interview, like 950 and counting. Looks like this is gonna generate a LOT of controversy. Here's the link to the fomos interview, if anyone could translate some of the comments?
http://www.fomos.kr/board/board.php?mode=read&keyno=116583&db=interview&cate=&page=1&field=&kwrd=
Also, thanks for the translation. I hope the coach gives Bisu more time to practice for individual leagues.

On April 24 2011 13:04 kassi wrote:
T1 fans saying he's paid for a reason and blaming the team is a poor excuse. There are as of now 1038 replies on that interview... compare with 39 for Fantasy's interview and 177/168 for the people who advance from Group D.

On April 24 2011 14:30 _romantic wrote:
Is what Bisu is doing now harder or easier than Flash or Jaedong carrying their teams? If not, why is he bitching about it?

On April 24 2011 14:38 Taekwon wrote:


Although I understand we are on completely different teams, take the time to read the posts before making people repeat themselves.

Thanks.

On April 24 2011 14:42 _romantic wrote:


Which posts are you referring to? I read through the entire thread before posting.

On April 24 2011 14:47 renzy wrote:


You obviously did not. It's been stated several times that T1 focuses more on proleague. Therefore, Flash's situation is different. There was a time last year when KT dismissed Flash from SPL so that he can practice for individual leagues. Thats enough said about team emphasis on PL vs SL.

On April 24 2011 14:53 _romantic wrote:


Different, but not necessarily better. Flash has to carry his entire team alone--Bisu is on a team with Fantasy and Best. Jaedong has it even worse off--other than him it's Hiya... and Killer. Are you seriously implying that the pressure to need to prepare for your own match and the ace match, and worry about the overall performance of your tema, day after day is not equivalent of having more emphasis placed on PL as opposed to SLs?

On April 24 2011 14:53 _romantic wrote:


Different, but not necessarily better. Flash has to carry his entire team alone--Bisu is on a team with Fantasy and Best. Jaedong has it even worse off--other than him it's Hiya... and Killer. Are you seriously implying that the pressure to need to prepare for your own match and the ace match, and worry about the overall performance of your tema, day after day is not equivalent of having more emphasis placed on PL as opposed to SLs?

On April 24 2011 09:05 GTR wrote:
Hmm, I'm not surprised that Bisu would be limited in his practice for individual leagues. Out of the past three years since TBLS was 'born', Bisu has clearly been the weakest player in terms of tournament wins, individual-league wise (ever since the double-win against Jangbi in MSL/GC).

I don't think he'll ever win an individual league ever again as long as Flash and Jaedong are around.

On April 24 2011 13:58 SHr3DD3r wrote:
He REALLY needs a SL...

On April 24 2011 15:27 ffreakk wrote:
I personally wouldnt invest the time to argue with l0st_romantic.. He is pretty known for his blind hatred for Bisu, and would jump at every chance to flaunt his hate.. So unless you share the same sentiments, imo ignoring him will be a better choice..

On the topic of Flash, before the SWL final, he didnt even have to carry the team.. Most of them were performing up to, if not better than their normal standard.

On April 24 2011 15:06 renzy wrote:


Are you seriously saying getting days off from SPL to practice for SLs is NOT better than not getting any time to practice for the MSL? Honestly? Read what I posted before you say "Different, but not necessarily better. Flash had to carry his entire team..."

On April 24 2011 15:07 ketomai wrote:


He means that the Bisu's schedule (which is implied to be decided by the coach on what he practices) doesn't allow any time for him to practice for individual leagues as compared to Flash or JD. It has nothing to do with who is burdened to win more in PL. His practice time is supposedly limited physically, not because he has more stress and has to practice more for PL.

On April 24 2011 16:00 _romantic wrote:


Then this is a coaching issue--by that logic Bisu should have easily the best SPL and SWL record (but he doesn't). Something is happening that is affecting his play; maybe it's psychological weakness, maybe it's that he's hit a natural skill cap; who knows. But you can't place the responsibility on anyone other than him for that.

On April 24 2011 14:53 _romantic wrote:


Different, but not necessarily better. Flash has to carry his entire team alone--Bisu is on a team with Fantasy and Best. Jaedong has it even worse off--other than him it's Hiya... and Killer. Are you seriously implying that the pressure to need to prepare for your own match and the ace match, and worry about the overall performance of your tema, day after day is not equivalent of having more emphasis placed on PL as opposed to SLs?

On April 24 2011 15:09 imperfect wrote:


not even that, a protoss needs to win one T_T

On April 24 2011 20:44 Ryo wrote:
As a BW fan, it makes me sad that no protoss has won an individual league in 3 years.

Bisu fighting yo!

On April 24 2011 20:49 PineappleLumpsToss wrote:


As a Toss fan I'm with you on that one! It's most likely to be one of TaekBang the way things are playing out at the moment.

On April 24 2011 21:17 Evs wrote:


That 4 of the 6 hailed dragons are in a slump is really depressing for the protoss race.

On April 24 2011 23:13 fearus wrote:
Coach Park costing Bisu his OSLs and MSLs.

As far as I am concerned JD and Flash might as well hand over half of their trophies to Park.

On April 25 2011 01:57 lone_hydra wrote:
When the fck is the OSL starting. I need to know when to release all by Bisu charged energy.

On April 24 2011 20:44 Ryo wrote:
As a BW fan, it makes me sad that no protoss has won an individual league in 3 years.

Bisu fighting yo!

On April 25 2011 02:37 Sawamura wrote:


Bisu is no team carrier like flash and jaedong as he mostly is used to get easy wins and than walks off with the team to victory compared to flash and jaedong with some time unreliable team mates who often switch off their game sense and starts to play not at a level which is not competent . Hence the calling of jaedong OZ and KT FLASH and all the favourite names called by other team . In my opinion with the constant relying on these 2 big shots in their respective teams they have actually grown much tougher mentally and obviously greater control in the games that they are playing as they are always relied upon and is pressured to make win's which actually distinguish bisu from the tyrant and the ultimate weapon . Nevertheless its okay to whine bisu and why don't you admit your pvt is less inferior to flash although it looks like i am taking cheap pot shot at bisu due to him complaining that he was not given the time to practice was he the ace player that mbc rely on when they in distress like flash , jaedong ? Hopefully some mbc players would shed on light on his background history when he was on mbc as obviously currently in his state he's not really dealing well after getting eliminated in the individual league.

On April 24 2011 09:24 bearbuddy wrote:


Cause TL is strongly zerg biased. Flash is the lol-turtle terran who took massive heat in the 2009-2010 season because he keeps failing out of individual leagues while he carried KT (to the point that there was a time period when some people think Fantasy might become a better player than Flash). Bisu is the lol-easy toss who hasn't had any decent run in an individual league. Jaedong is the destroyer. Yup. Not a lol-cheesy 2-hatch zerg. I don't think it has anything anymore with Savior, since most Savior fans have pretty much left the scene.

On April 25 2011 04:12 chisuri wrote:
Just compare Bisu and JD's performances after MSL. Bisu won his game, twice. JD lost hist game. And guess who was apparently more prepared in MSL before?

On April 25 2011 04:12 chisuri wrote:
Just compare Bisu and JD's performances after MSL. Bisu won his game, twice. JD lost hist game. And guess who was apparently more prepared in MSL before?

On April 25 2011 05:09 BreakerD wrote:
I think bisu is making up excuses. We all know his pvt is baddddddddddd. Everyone knows bisu has bad decision making when he plays pvt. Seriously game 1 he went carriers and we all know how bad his carrier play is. He barely won he last game with carriers. He seriously needs to use templar in my opinion and quit going carrier play. And of course SPL is more important to the coach, their job depends on the results and its a team effort.

On April 25 2011 05:09 BreakerD wrote:
I think bisu is making up excuses. We all know his pvt is baddddddddddd. Everyone knows bisu has bad decision making when he plays pvt. Seriously game 1 he went carriers and we all know how bad his carrier play is. He barely won he last game with carriers. He seriously needs to use templar in my opinion and quit going carrier play. And of course SPL is more important to the coach, their job depends on the results and its a team effort.

On April 25 2011 08:39 TheGlassface wrote:
Not support him?

Lol, that fool is the reason I play SC
He is the reason I want to teach English in SK
and he is the reason I play Protoss
Kim Taek Yong hwaiting!

On April 25 2011 10:58 infinity2k9 wrote:
If he's practicing PvT for SWL it's still practice. Does he really need to heavily practice on the MSL maps to apply his skills on them? PvT doesn't particularly seem like a matchup where you need to do that... Dante's Peak for example is a pretty standardish map. His mistakes were just basic like not responding to a 1 Rax CC correctly, which he had a perfect counter for in SWL. Flash just macro'd off 3 bases and won, Bisu couldn't stop it.

So unless he's saying he needed to learn the maps so he could make cheeses or something then it does seem to be a bit of an excuse to me. I didn't seem their first game but i heard he found a proxy rax then failed to capitalize on his advantage. On the 2nd game he failed to respond to 1 rax CC. Both of these games would have played out the same on FS or any other standard map. I'm sure playing on a map repeatedly does help regardless but still, practice is practice.

On April 25 2011 11:07 renzy wrote:


Have you been following PvTs this year? Bisu's response was the standard, used by Stork and others. 3 goon expand, robotics, then fast third when the natural is done. Except, on Dante's Peak, Bisu's pylon wall didn't really block the vultures, which raped all of Bisu's probes at his third, meaning...he didn't have a third. Thats what lost him the game, and it does have to do with map, cuz he couldn't make proper pylon walls on Dante's Peak to save his life. =.=

On April 25 2011 11:07 renzy wrote:


Have you been following PvTs this year? Bisu's response was the standard, used by Stork and others. 3 goon expand, robotics, then fast third when the natural is done. Except, on Dante's Peak, Bisu's pylon wall didn't really block the vultures, which raped all of Bisu's probes at his third, meaning...he didn't have a third. Thats what lost him the game, and it does have to do with map, cuz he couldn't make proper pylon walls on Dante's Peak to save his life. =.=

On April 25 2011 11:18 infinity2k9 wrote:
Well Stork often goes reaver then the double expand, but nevertheless;

When his natural nexus is only just starting by the time Flash's natural CC is done, he's never going to beat Flash. It might work against a player with inferior TvP mechanics which is nearly everyone else; But not Flash. That's why he did a forward rax in the previous game even on a good PvT map. You can't just let him gain an economic advantage cause he'll smash you in the midgame. I'm pretty sure Bisu is aware of this but he fell behind right from the start cause of it. Taking the 12 o' clock as a vulture tight expo would have worked well too, you don't have to play it much to see that.

And yeah as people have said defending vulture harass is hardly a map specific thing, that's pretty much the only type of harass he's going to be doing at this point in the game.

If I had one more day to focus on preparing, I might have also done better. I think my level of understanding of the maps had dropped some.

Coach Park seems to consider the team leagues too much, so at the time I was a little resentful.

Being eliminated from the individual leagues is a pretty big blow to a player. If I could have started practicing early and prepared little by little, the results would (sic) definitely have been different.

Even though it sounds very much like an excuse, but thanks to SWL, I was exhausted. I had two days off after SWL finals. Because I had to rest, I couldn't practice much. Other players had ample time to practice, so I was envious of them.

I wanted to win twice today just to say that. Recently, I haven't been able to make it to a Ro8 or Ro4 anywhere, so I wanted to make it badly. To the fans who have supported me, I'm embarrassed to even show my face.

Hopefully this is an accurate translation, but it seems he's learning to move on. We should too. Sure, it's a veiled dig at Coach Park's focus on team leagues, but it's also a way of telling Coach Park that the individual leagues are important for his players too, and that of all his players it's Bisu who's the most hungry to win again. A Coach's job is not just to win but to take care of the mentality of his players (which is why I believe that Kingdom should really return to SKT because he seems to have understood Bisu quite well).

On April 25 2011 13:27 Milkis wrote:


It's not. DES version says "I'm resentful towards him because..." while Fomos says "I'm resentful from a player's perspective towards the team because of..."

On April 25 2011 04:52 Pistoche wrote:


Yes, ACE players, big accomplishment there...

ZvZ where jaedong decided he wanted to take a gamble and got really unlucky? okay.

On April 25 2011 13:47 Caladbolg wrote:


Hmm, so how well does "resentment" translate in Korean culture? Cause it generally carries a bad implication (anger that you keep inside). If the same is true culturally in Korea then Bisu's pretty BM hahaha

Nobody forces him to gamble, if the strategy he chose depends on luck then...well, he lost, that's the fact.
And ZvZ is coin flip, but ZvP is imba, you know.

ggaemo is a MSL Ro32 player just like Great. They are both eliminated, so your point is?

On April 25 2011 15:11 chisuri wrote:
I don't compare Bisu's games vs Flash to JD's game yesterday. I compare his performance in the match with ACE to JD's match with KHAN to show that maybe JD was too focus on the MSL group rather than prepare for PL match leading to his poor display yesterday. When I watch the MSL's matches, JD seemed to be very well-prepared especially on La Mancha, his timings were so well coordinated that Sea looked helpless. On the other hand, Bisu looked dead even after his game vs Sea. I can't help thinking that he didn't prepare for the match on Dante's Peak and certainly not expected to face Flash there (I mean Flash is the favorite against JD, rite?). And after his terrible wall at the 3rd, his unexplainable engage at Flash's 4th, I can say that he didn't know the map at all or at least not well enough. And thinking about the fact that Dante's Peak is not a PL's map, well, you can see where I'm going to.

On April 25 2011 15:20 moopie wrote:

JD lost a zvz with a bo disadvantage. Bisu beat ACE players. Not really a fair comparison.

On April 25 2011 15:26 chisuri wrote:
I mean that Bisu is not making excuses here. He definitely lost, ill-prepared or whatever reason. But that was very much his coach's fault to not ALLOW him to practice. And he's telling the truth why some of you're bitching him about that. Some even say that even if he did prepare the results would not be much different. Well I can say that's too subjective. The PL matches have just showed us how important preparation is. JD lost his game kinda unlucky but you must admit his performance were kinda lacking and far far more worse than his game in group D WHERE HE WAS PREPARED. So I think that maybe he was concentrated too much on the MSL games and need a rest, that's very reasonable. And Bisu's games before showed that he was very much prepared FOR THE PL MATCH. What kind of bullshit is that? He didn't prepare for his matches in MSL but for PL match? May I mind you SKT game was one day ahead Oz game, so JD should have more time to prepare for his match, rite? Well, based on the result, he apparently not.

On April 25 2011 15:04 Womwomwom wrote:


And Modesty got to the Ro4 of the OSL. Its a strawman argument and you know it.

ggaemo is an ACE player. He's got less practice partners to work with, so few that they've spent the last few seasons bitching about how they need more members and new blood so they get actual practice, and he's probably got less time to focus on actual progaming because they have other commitments to deal with.

On April 25 2011 05:06 night terrors wrote:
Did you see the games? They were solid.
Now did you see JD's game last night?

On April 25 2011 15:27 chisuri wrote:

He had the advantage. 9 pool (JD) vs 12 hatch.

On April 25 2011 16:01 Milkis wrote:


Stop sidestepping the point. I think at this point it's clear you have no idea how to watch ZvZ at all. Performance? Jaedong lost the second his Zerglings went the wrong direction and he knew it, of course it'll make him make desperate decisions that he knows wont work out.

Stop trying to degrade Jaedong to Bisu's level. Jaedong is someone who has handled dual starleagues with full Proleague while performing quite well. Bisu is not Lee Ssang, and part of the reason is because his team is a bitch. I do think it is an excuse and it does excuse Bisu for his MSL performance

But ffs stop trying to say Jaedong wasn't prepared in yesterday's match when he lost to 90% luck and he couldn't do anything about it after his initial choices of actions.

On April 25 2011 16:19 letian wrote:

He scouted Great way too late to benefit from that.

On April 25 2011 16:23 letian wrote:
Anyway, Bisu could have performed better imo, but I wouldn't bet on him against Flash, its Stork who can handle Flash nicely - not Bisu, who, I think, is a bit bo1 player. Its been a while since we saw his box play, don't you agree?

On April 25 2011 16:32 chisuri wrote:

So JD just succumbs to luck without any further resistance? And I thought TBLS is one or two classes above the rest especially JD in ZvZ, didn't he overcome many many BO disadvantages, bad-luck scoutings before? So if his ability was enough to overcome such things before, why it didn't yesterday? Maybe (just maybe) because of his lack of preparation? You must be somewhat very bias to not see the difference between JD's preparation for his game on La Mancha and Bisu's group stage matches. And hell, just compare Bisu's game on Aztec and his MSL games. He can beat Flash with preparation, it's a fact, it happened. But he didn't have that preparation for his MSL games. And if you agree that he was lack of prep, then how come he says so is equal to finding excuses? That's not his fault. HE WANTED TO PRACTICE. HE WANTED TO PREPARE. BUT HIS COACH DIDN'T ALLOW HIM FOR CRYING OUT LOUD. Why that he says he's upset upon his coach is excusing? HE SHOULD BE VERY THANKFUL SINCE HE CAN BLAME HIS COACH FOR HIS LOSS NOW. No, he doesn't want to lose. He wants to win for his fans. And god, his coach didn't care. You haters just flame his no matter what, now even when he speaks the truth and says sorry to his fans. And hell, he just wants to compete better with the other S-class. you don't want that? You want him to not be allowed to practice so your Lee Ssang can beat him? Well, ok, I guess we have to accept that and come back to PL where Bisu is allowing to practice and watch he beats Flash and JD, especially JD consecutively. And you can enjoy your Lee Ssang's domination in SLs with one of the two other S-class isn't allowed to practice and the others is allowed to not practice and to watch manga and play Cellphone games.

On April 25 2011 16:45 Milkis wrote:


Of course it's not his fault. I already said his excuse was a valid one.

I don't know what you're ranting about but you're clearly misinterpreting a lot of things I'm saying. Chillax.

On April 25 2011 16:45 Milkis wrote:


Of course it's not his fault. I already said his excuse was a valid one.

I don't know what you're ranting about but you're clearly misinterpreting a lot of things I'm saying. Chillax.

On April 25 2011 16:33 chisuri wrote:

if he scouted Great correctly, he auto won. And guess who is unlucky then?

On April 25 2011 16:56 chisuri wrote:

So your reasons for saying JD is one level above Bisu is? As far as I remember, when JD was running for MSL, OSL and PL in 2009 he did collapse in MSL against Calm, and in PL against Fantasy, twice. And at the end of 2010 season he lost both finals to Flash and his team didn't make PL playoff, no? At the beginning of this season, Bisu performed better in PL, his team won WL playoff over Oz and KT and his past performance in SLs was equal to Flash and just slightly worse than JD. So what is the level of JD that Bisu can't reach?

On April 25 2011 16:56 chisuri wrote:

So your reasons for saying JD is one level above Bisu is? As far as I remember, when JD was running for MSL, OSL and PL in 2009 he did collapse in MSL against Calm, and in PL against Fantasy, twice. And at the end of 2010 season he lost both finals to Flash and his team didn't make PL playoff, no? At the beginning of this season, Bisu performed better in PL, his team won WL playoff over Oz and KT and his past performance in SLs was equal to Flash and just slightly worse than JD. So what is the level of JD that Bisu can't reach?

On April 25 2011 17:11 letian wrote:

well, ok.
What I believe is that strongest always wins.
So no matter what Flash Bisu JD will say about their losses its all means nothing, its just an excuse for the fans. I don't need it, I need their games to be good, thats it.
Trying to excuse somebody's poor performance with lack of preparation, saying "if a had more time, of course I would crush him" looks like we used to say, when we were kids "if i had a bazooka i would destroy you" etc. Its competition, we can only rant that Bisu was unlucky to have less time than the others. What I think Bisu is trying to say here, is his deep regret about not qualifying and he wants to show it to his fans, giving a nice reason to flame about SKT coach injustice and that it wasn't his fault, I think its wrong. Giving the fact that Bisu is worse player than Flash actually, Bisu should have pulled something really outstanding to get through makes all his excuses unnecessary at this point. Good luck Bisu in OSL.

On April 25 2011 16:56 chisuri wrote:

So your reasons for saying JD is one level above Bisu is? As far as I remember, when JD was running for MSL, OSL and PL in 2009 he did collapse in MSL against Calm, and in PL against Fantasy, twice. And at the end of 2010 season he lost both finals to Flash and his team didn't make PL playoff, no? At the beginning of this season, Bisu performed better in PL, his team won WL playoff over Oz and KT and his past performance in SLs was equal to Flash and just slightly worse than JD. So what is the level of JD that Bisu can't reach?

On April 25 2011 17:19 e_i_pi_1_0 wrote:

There's also the fact that Jaedong's semifinals series against Calm in MSL was one day before his semis vs Fantasy, and both of these were basically almost right after he had just lost in PL. He also won that OSL by defeating fantasy in the semis, the very person who had sniped him in PL earlier. I don't even remember if Bisu had ever made dual semifinals?

As for PL, yes, Jaedong kind of choked at the finals, but for the 2008-2009 season, Jaedong basically carried his team for most of the PL season, while still making deep runs into SLs, something Bisu has not been able to do for quite a while, even with a solid team behind him. As for the 2009-2010 season, the main reason Oz didn't make playoffs was because of the ace match choices during the first few rounds (Killer for ace), not because Jaedong failed a lot in PL. Oftentimes, JD was the only one to win.

Also, you mentioned Jaedong losing both finals to Flash. Let me ask you this: when has Bisu ever been able to make dual finals, while having to carry his PL team? Bisu hasn't made it past the Ro8 of a league since Avalon MSL, where he lost a series vs Iris that I'm pretty sure he shouldn't have lost. Unless you're referring to past as in before 2009 or something for past performance in SLs. As for comparing Bisu to Flash: Flash has made dual finals 3 times in a row.

And finally, for WL playoffs: he basically functioned as a final boss/sniper, while KT and Oz both turned back into their normal one-man teams. If he had to make multiple kills, I wouldn't have been certain SKT would've won.

On April 25 2011 17:26 chisuri wrote:

You truly make me speechless...
Just want to say one last thing, hoping that I can make you understand my point of view. your example and comparison is meaningless. You will never have a bazooka, and even if you have that's unfair. How can giving Bisu the same amount to practice as other competitors be unfair and injustice then? And hell, his complaint about his coach is very much true, many people knew that for years and until today, it's the first time he speak it out loud. Have you ever read Bisu's interview? If you have, has he ever spoken about smt like that, smt can bring him a lot of troubles? He must be restrain it for too long and can't take it anymore. If you don't know what he is suffering plz don't belittle him.

On April 25 2011 17:34 Milkis wrote:


My reason for saying JD is one level above Bisu is mentality and playstyle. The point is Jaedong handles dual starleagues and playstyle and he won't complain about it. Of course he can lose even if he's prepared, or maybe because he's not as prepared as he wants himself to be.

Are you seriously saying that his team not making it to PL Playoff is JD's fault? And honestly Bisu's team winning over Oz and KT is the fault of JD or Flash? Stop confounding effects and then we can talk about this -- you seem to enjoy combining effects arbitrary that are outside of the player's control and putting it in there.

All I'm saying is that JD and Flash can swallow similar schedules and still make it to dual leagues consistently, Bisu hasn't made it past Round of 16 for quite a long time. I'm not 100% convinced this is simply due to SKT's practice regime either.

Not every team can be Hite/CJ I guess.

On April 25 2011 17:54 letian wrote:

All I want to say is that Bisu's individual performance has always been poorer than PL's, and yes maybe you're right and it all because of the coaching policy in SKT. It's just that I feel like its unnecessary to complain about coaches and lack of time, when you are just worse than the other player. Why try to look for some questionable reasons for your loss other than admit that you're worse and will prepare even more to win and finally be the best?. This is what I don't like.

On April 25 2011 17:34 Milkis wrote:
My reason for saying JD is one level above Bisu is mentality and playstyle. The point is Jaedong handles dual starleagues and playstyle and he won't complain about it. Of course he can lose even if he's prepared, or maybe because he's not as prepared as he wants himself to be.

On April 25 2011 17:45 chisuri wrote:

In 2010 Bisu was slumping hard. That makes his comeback and current performance even more incredible. And you can't see since Bisu came back he have been beating JD consecutively? In 2007 and 2008 and even now, when Bisu was and is performing well, what makes JD a level above him? If i'm not mistaken, when Bisu is performing well, he also very much carries his team from MBC to SKT1. And I will repeat it one more time, even when Flash and JD have to carry their teams, they only need to prepare for 2 games per match in PL, the very same amount of Bisu's preparation. And about the sniper role in WL playoff, lol. Bisu and JD were both sent out last. Nobody can assure how the 3 first players of each team would perform so that the preparation of both should be the same. The same about Flash, nobody can predict how the match would turn out to be.
I admit JD and Flash's achievements are amazing. But even though JD is more consistent, when Bisu's at his peak (before and now) he seems to be the one a level above JD.

On April 25 2011 18:01 chisuri wrote:

The reason is not questionable. He didn't be allowed to practice, he didn't familiar with the maps and his decisions on the spot is not good. That's why he lost. That reason is directly originate from his coach's decision. And it has been for years now. And it's the 1st time he complains. You should try to take unfair treatment for years and try to not complain, then come back here and criticize Bisu.
The only questionable thing here is whether he lied or not. He didn't. It's not new and many people knows that.

On April 25 2011 18:06 letian wrote:

look man, what you wanna say is that Bisu is at his peak now, and he's out of MSL already because of SKT and WL? Well thats a poor argument and ppl here have already told you why. You know that if Bisu were better than JD, he would have won MSL's and OSL's. You excuse him by being in a slump at that time? So then being in a slump is not being a worse player? And if you're a true Bisu fan you should know that he has never won a bo match against JD. Yes he has a record against him, but hell does he have a record in other mathups. JD has been consistent all the time in PL and individuals his entire career, taking 2-3-1 places, were was Bisu? Slumping? I don't think you are serious.

On April 25 2011 18:29 chisuri wrote:

So JD's skill is worse than Flash and Bisu and equal to Stork in their match ups. Bisu won Saviors at his peak, Flash won everything. Stork is aroud for longer than I can remember. JD pretty much wins some 1 class below players when Flash didn't know how to TvZ, and Bisu and Stork were slumping as their race's nature kicked in and some outside reasons (Bisu's coach, Stork's dictractions...) and he is 1 level above them because..well he has 2 more OSLs than Bisu? How about his PL's trophies?
I respect JD and I count him equal to Bisu and Stork, really. But not above.

On April 25 2011 18:56 letian wrote:

Oh my, i guess only Bisu's fail in next OSL against Shine for ex(Oh how we could forget about it?)
will somehow chill SKT fans down, but honestly, I don't want this to happen.
I cant say Bisu is more skilled than JD fairly because he is only best at PvZ, a very good PvP and good PvT player, when JD is the best fucking zerg in all possible matchups. How can you argue against that? Your only argument is Bisu's PL performance over JD?, ok, but we can always agree that its Bisu's skill PLUS SKT's preparation and coaching talent, but how can it be an argument then?
Statistics should be analysed thoroughly before referring to it. Oh should all SKT fans complain now about his lack of time and over-devotion to his team for his losses in individual games? This cant be true. I don't know why does this even go under any kind of doubt that Bisu is less skilled than Flash and JD? Oh should I mention the fact that Bisu is 3-4 to Zero, that is according to your logic makes Zero better.

On April 25 2011 20:14 chisuri wrote:

No I say Bisu is more skilled than JD in their match ups. you should check TLPD to see the head-to-head stat between JD vs 3 others members of TBLS. Nothng in my argument involves another player not a TBLS member. And Bisu is the best PvT now arcording to his recent results. PvZ, well don't let me talk about it so what? Of course JD should be the best in all 3 match ups he is the only Zerg in TBLS. And they are above the rest of progamers scene. And I don't need to chill down whatever, I think that Flash is a little above others TBLS members (and he's just lost to Bisu and JD) and the other 3 are equal. I don't say that bisu is the best etc but one level below JD? No I don't think so.

On April 25 2011 20:27 Cheeseburgered wrote:
where is fantasy's interview?

On April 25 2011 18:06 kamikami wrote:


Seriously the "level" in starcraft is about skills and results, it has nothing to do with "complaining" or "BM" or "cool" or any other bullshit. Based on your logic I can say that Bisu is one level above Jaedong because he has better look than Jaedong (because my definition of "level" is base on that), and the same can be said for Jaedong vs Flash.

Jaedong cannot be one level above either Bisu or Flash simply because he lost to them way more than he won against them in normal games that focus on mechanics/multitask/macro/micro... or any other game skills. You cannot just constantly lose to a guy and still go "i'm one level above him lol".

My point is, results and skills speak, not some stupid subjective factors.

On April 25 2011 17:54 letian wrote:

All I want to say is that Bisu's individual performance has always been poorer than PL's, and yes maybe you're right and it all because of the coaching policy in SKT. It's just that I feel like its unnecessary to complain about coaches and lack of time, when you are just worse than the other player. Why try to look for some questionable reasons for your loss other than admit that you're worse and will prepare even more to win and finally be the best?. This is what I don't like.

On April 26 2011 01:32 andrewlt wrote:




Worse players can sometimes beat better players given enough practice time. Flash and Jaedong didn't make the final of either Starleague either last season. It's just appalling that progamers can't even show some frustration without getting attacked. Just take his interview for what it is without going all rabid on him.

On April 26 2011 01:36 Milkis wrote:


Of course they can.

Fomos's article has like, 1300 comments on it. Most of that is sympathizing with Bisu.

Why do you assume I'm even being "rabid" on him and acting like I'm attacking him? Did you read any of my posts before jumping to that conclusion? That is a lot more appalling than anything else, imo. My point is that most people like to point to Lee Ssang and go "lol look at them" to say Bisu should man up -- my point is that Bisu is no Lee Ssang and does not have that inhuman ability.

On April 26 2011 01:38 andrewlt wrote:



Not you, dude. The guy I'm responding to.

On April 26 2011 03:14 Caladbolg wrote:
Wow why are so many people fired up just because Milkis said Jaedong is one level higher than Bisu?

It's true guys. Jaedong has an amazing winner's mentality. Bisu's psyche is more fragile.

Anything can change when Bisu starts winning again in series play, but as of now I don't think you can twist the facts to say that Bisu's better or even that he's equal to JD. Give the Dong some credit. LeeSsang have been the best (most consistently peaking, as well) players in Starcraft since 2009.

Yeah you can bring up JD's head to head vs the rest of TBLS but then statistical arguments aren't complete without including pure results, and in that JD's ahead of Bisu by 2 golds and countless silvers. Against JD, yeah Bisu might be a stronger player, but that kind of comparison fails when you compare, let's say, Skyhigh vs Sea (Sea is the better player definitely but Skyhigh at his prime would crush Sea).

And you can't really compare peak play vs peak play because, unlike Flash, Bisu hasn't faced a prime Jaedong in a Bo5 (cept that GOM thing).

For the record, I think prime Bisu would beat prime Jaedong but that's because of the matchup.

On April 26 2011 03:44 chisuri wrote:
If Skyhigh is lucky enough to have a full Terrans SL up to the final he will be very likely win that SL.
And no, Sea is a more consistent player than Bisu and Stork. He is not as good as they are. Consistency is cool and good but the skill is too much to be neglected. And also, Bisu is not fragile, he always comes back, just like JD and Flash after his first title. But his race has a fragile strength and depends very much on strategy so...

On April 25 2011 22:02 Simplistik wrote:

Unfortunately Bisu sometimes detracts from the other players' interviews being completed. But hey, Bisu fighting! And thanks for the interview.

On April 26 2011 04:13 Caladbolg wrote:


Skyhigh will not beat Flash in a series though, haha.

I was never implying Sea was better, but that his matchups are very stable (no PvT/PvP ups and downs). Hence overall he is better than Skyhigh. But he will almost never defeat Skyhigh in a BoX. It's a similar, albeit exaggerated statement in relation to Bisu beating Jaedong. Yes, I will put my money on Bisu every single time they face each other. If, however, there will be a bet on who will have an overall better career, legacy, and overall impression of mental fortitude, I won't (neither will I bet on Jaedong though).

All I'm saying is that Milkis' statement that Jaedong is one level higher than Bisu is not a wholly inaccurate one. Evidence suggests that he IS one level higher than Bisu. Past and current performance, taken alongside overall results shows it. Coming back from 0-2 deficits. Reaching Starleague finals time and time again. Being the only one who stood up against Flash during the latter's brief reign of absolute terror last year.

If you ask Flash which pro-gamer he most respects and considers his peer, he will say Jaedong 100% of the time. And Flash would be right to say that.

Bisu still has a chance to enter the discussion. His current play already puts him, at minimum, top 5. The OSL will come soon. The MSL will (most likely) continue. Flash and Jaedong are still 1 and 2.

There can be another revolution.

On April 26 2011 04:49 chisuri wrote:

All of your reasoning about JD one level above can be roughly rejected by 1 fact: Bisu is Protoss. Now if you ask not only Flash but every players who is the most respected and most skilled Protoss player in BW history, the answer would mostly Bisu and maybe Stork up to some points (can't exclude him really). That's Protoss for you, they don't have an ultimate weapon or king or tyrant. They have ups and downs but Bisu is special, his mental gratitude is at least equal to Flash's and JD's. He occasionally slumps for quite a time but he will always come back and lead the Protoss again (with Stork, who is motivated by Bisu, of course). And his skill is second to none, seriously. And Bisu have always bean suffering some lacks of preparation or even the sympathy and care from his coach. yeah I know it sounds very much like excuses but I do believe even JD himself considers Bisu his rival and equal competitor.