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Let the fun begin. Activision Blizzard suing MBC - Page 8

Forum Index > BW General
Post a Reply
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Madder
Profile Joined February 2010
Australia427 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-23 03:01:30
October 23 2010 03:01 GMT
#141
This is pathetic.

I know it's Blizzard's game and all but really, why the hell can't BW coexist with SC2 in eSports?
deafhobbit
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States828 Posts
October 23 2010 03:04 GMT
#142
On October 23 2010 11:57 PalaceAthene wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2010 11:41 deafhobbit wrote:
On October 23 2010 11:36 PalaceAthene wrote:
Legally, blizzard is in the right. They tried to make contracts with Kespa before, but Kespa argued that Starcraft was a public property, and they made money off of it.

It's like if you bought a movie, and made people pay to watch it. It's illegal, and it's wrong. And if Kespa dies, the GSL is there. And no doubt companies will rise from Kespas ashes to take the reins of SC:BW.


Kespa hasn't made a dime off of BW. Kespa is a committee of companies that sponsor progaming teams, and a non profit organization.


Blizzard is seeing it from the commercial side of it. Teams have sponsors that pay for them to play in these tournaments, so their is money being made. It is not the complete 'No money involved' situation you're trying to argue.

That's what this is all about:Both sides fighting for money. Kespa feels like they own Starcraft because they made it into what it is, even though without Blizzard they wouldn't exist.

So now we've got two sides:The passionate side, the ones who argue for Kespa just because they made Starcraft grow. And the legal side, which Blizzard deserves its due desserts.


You're putting words in my mouth - i never said no one made money from BW, only that kespa didn't. Tournaments are run by MBC and OGN, Kespa is only an administrative agent.

Also, calling Blizzard the "legal side" is bullshit, because it assumes the law is clear cut. Furthermore, it ignores the fact that MBC and OGN purchased the rights to broadcast BW from Blizzards former Korean partner, Hanbitsoft.
I cheer for underdogs and Flash
ShadeR
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Australia7535 Posts
October 23 2010 03:05 GMT
#143
On October 23 2010 11:57 PalaceAthene wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2010 11:41 deafhobbit wrote:
On October 23 2010 11:36 PalaceAthene wrote:
Legally, blizzard is in the right. They tried to make contracts with Kespa before, but Kespa argued that Starcraft was a public property, and they made money off of it.

It's like if you bought a movie, and made people pay to watch it. It's illegal, and it's wrong. And if Kespa dies, the GSL is there. And no doubt companies will rise from Kespas ashes to take the reins of SC:BW.


Kespa hasn't made a dime off of BW. Kespa is a committee of companies that sponsor progaming teams, and a non profit organization.


Blizzard is seeing it from the commercial side of it. Teams have sponsors that pay for them to play in these tournaments, so their is money being made. It is not the complete 'No money involved' situation you're trying to argue.

That's what this is all about:Both sides fighting for money. Kespa feels like they own Starcraft because they made it into what it is, even though without Blizzard they wouldn't exist.

So now we've got two sides:The passionate side, the ones who argue for Kespa just because they made Starcraft grow. And the legal side, which Blizzard deserves its due desserts.


Sooo... your basically against a system where players have a salary and thus some sort of financial security and would rather progaming return to the dark ages where if you happened to mess up in a tourney and didn't get enough prize-money, you have to live off cup ramen for the next month and half and sleep in a hostel.
Milkis
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
5003 Posts
October 23 2010 03:07 GMT
#144
rofl the interview in that article

it makes blizzard look absolutely retarded. i can't imagine this ending up well rofl
Fulgrim
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States560 Posts
October 23 2010 03:07 GMT
#145
Is there anything we can do about this? Let our displeasure known to blizzard? Or is it just a lost cause?
One does not simply walk into mordor
iamho
Profile Joined June 2009
United States3347 Posts
October 23 2010 03:07 GMT
#146
This has been discussed to death. Unless you're a professional IP lawyer, you don't really have anything to contribute. Especially if you're just going to make shit analogies
deafhobbit
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States828 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-23 03:11:30
October 23 2010 03:09 GMT
#147
On October 23 2010 12:05 ShadeR wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2010 11:57 PalaceAthene wrote:
On October 23 2010 11:41 deafhobbit wrote:
On October 23 2010 11:36 PalaceAthene wrote:
Legally, blizzard is in the right. They tried to make contracts with Kespa before, but Kespa argued that Starcraft was a public property, and they made money off of it.

It's like if you bought a movie, and made people pay to watch it. It's illegal, and it's wrong. And if Kespa dies, the GSL is there. And no doubt companies will rise from Kespas ashes to take the reins of SC:BW.


Kespa hasn't made a dime off of BW. Kespa is a committee of companies that sponsor progaming teams, and a non profit organization.


Blizzard is seeing it from the commercial side of it. Teams have sponsors that pay for them to play in these tournaments, so their is money being made. It is not the complete 'No money involved' situation you're trying to argue.

That's what this is all about:Both sides fighting for money. Kespa feels like they own Starcraft because they made it into what it is, even though without Blizzard they wouldn't exist.

So now we've got two sides:The passionate side, the ones who argue for Kespa just because they made Starcraft grow. And the legal side, which Blizzard deserves its due desserts.

.

Sooo... your basically against a system where players have a salary and thus some sort of financial security and would rather progaming return to the dark ages where if you happened to mess up in a tourney and didn't get enough prize-money, you have to live off cup ramen for the next month and half and sleep in a hostel.


And this is why the blizzard/gretech model of "progaming" is doomed to fail. No salaries = no income security, and will mean that players can devote less time to practicing and improving their game than in the BW scene. The best they can hope for is individual sponsorship, but that will only be given to the best of the best, meaning that very few Sc2 "pros" will actually play their game professionally
I cheer for underdogs and Flash
Slow Motion
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States6960 Posts
October 23 2010 03:11 GMT
#148
BTW unless you're a Korean IP lawyer, stop talking about who is legally right. You have no idea. You've never studied Korean IP law. And even if Blizzard does end up winning, does that mean the decision was legally right? Judges make mistakes all the time and get reversed all the time. Furthermore, many decisions are extremely close and is about which party makes the best argument, not about who's right or wrong.

Sorry for the mini-rant but it just pisses me off when people who've never studied the law talk about it like they understand.
PalaceAthene
Profile Joined September 2010
21 Posts
October 23 2010 03:11 GMT
#149
On October 23 2010 12:04 deafhobbit wrote:
You're putting words in my mouth - i never said no one made money from BW, only that kespa didn't. Tournaments are run by MBC and OGN, Kespa is only an administrative agent.

Also, calling Blizzard the "legal side" is bullshit, because it assumes the law is clear cut. Furthermore, it ignores the fact that MBC and OGN purchased the rights to broadcast BW from Blizzards former Korean partner, Hanbitsoft.


Key word former.

The fact that Blizzard let Kespa build an industry based around Starcraft, for 8 years without saying anything is pretty generous.

You're all forgetting that Starcraft isn't a sport, it's a product used to play a sport. Blizzard has had the right to not have them pay for royalties to use their product, and they have the right to change their mind and ask Kespa to start paying Royalties.

Kespa doesn't have a leg to stand on. It's Blizzards game, Blizzards IP, and they have a right to do anything they want with it.

PalaceAthene
Profile Joined September 2010
21 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-23 03:15:38
October 23 2010 03:13 GMT
#150
On October 23 2010 12:11 Slow Motion wrote:
BTW unless you're a Korean IP lawyer, stop talking about who is legally right. You have no idea. You've never studied Korean IP law. And even if Blizzard does end up winning, does that mean the decision was legally right? Judges make mistakes all the time and get reversed all the time. Furthermore, many decisions are extremely close and is about which party makes the best argument, not about who's right or wrong.

Sorry for the mini-rant but it just pisses me off when people who've never studied the law talk about it like they understand.


I reiterate, it's Blizzards IP, they can do whatever they want with it. Unless Korea want's to start an international dispute with an American company, which they aren't in a position to do, they have to listen to the creators of the game.

Again, many of you are arguing passion over legality.

And when I say Kespa, I mean the companies blizzard is suing, MBC and OGN
Yurebis
Profile Joined January 2009
United States1452 Posts
October 23 2010 03:13 GMT
#151
I was previously supportive of blizzard
but now
fuck it, go kespa, show us your micro skills
Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
ShadeR
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Australia7535 Posts
October 23 2010 03:14 GMT
#152
Does Fifa pay royalties to the man who created the soccer ball?
Over and over again your stupid analogies fall on their ass.
deafhobbit
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States828 Posts
October 23 2010 03:15 GMT
#153
On October 23 2010 12:11 PalaceAthene wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2010 12:04 deafhobbit wrote:
You're putting words in my mouth - i never said no one made money from BW, only that kespa didn't. Tournaments are run by MBC and OGN, Kespa is only an administrative agent.

Also, calling Blizzard the "legal side" is bullshit, because it assumes the law is clear cut. Furthermore, it ignores the fact that MBC and OGN purchased the rights to broadcast BW from Blizzards former Korean partner, Hanbitsoft.


Key word former.

The fact that Blizzard let Kespa build an industry based around Starcraft, for 8 years without saying anything is pretty generous.

You're all forgetting that Starcraft isn't a sport, it's a product used to play a sport. Blizzard has had the right to not have them pay for royalties to use their product, and they have the right to change their mind and ask Kespa to start paying Royalties.

Kespa doesn't have a leg to stand on. It's Blizzards game, Blizzards IP, and they have a right to do anything they want with it.



Yeah former, and contracts made with them were legally binding. Property rights don't give you the right to go back on contracts you've already made, or your agent made for you, even if you've changed your mind on it.

Finally, you're assuming this is a purely legal matter, which it isn't. None of us are qualified to talk about the vagaries of Korean IP law (as many people have pointed out), but what is legal and what isn't can rarely be stated objectively. Politics are deeply involved in legal processes, especially in countries like South Korea where large companies have direct ties to the government, and as it turns out a lot of those companies sponsor Proleague teams.
I cheer for underdogs and Flash
Romantic
Profile Joined January 2010
United States1844 Posts
October 23 2010 03:16 GMT
#154
On October 23 2010 12:04 deafhobbit wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2010 11:57 PalaceAthene wrote:
On October 23 2010 11:41 deafhobbit wrote:
On October 23 2010 11:36 PalaceAthene wrote:
Legally, blizzard is in the right. They tried to make contracts with Kespa before, but Kespa argued that Starcraft was a public property, and they made money off of it.

It's like if you bought a movie, and made people pay to watch it. It's illegal, and it's wrong. And if Kespa dies, the GSL is there. And no doubt companies will rise from Kespas ashes to take the reins of SC:BW.


Kespa hasn't made a dime off of BW. Kespa is a committee of companies that sponsor progaming teams, and a non profit organization.


Blizzard is seeing it from the commercial side of it. Teams have sponsors that pay for them to play in these tournaments, so their is money being made. It is not the complete 'No money involved' situation you're trying to argue.

That's what this is all about:Both sides fighting for money. Kespa feels like they own Starcraft because they made it into what it is, even though without Blizzard they wouldn't exist.

So now we've got two sides:The passionate side, the ones who argue for Kespa just because they made Starcraft grow. And the legal side, which Blizzard deserves its due desserts.


You're putting words in my mouth - i never said no one made money from BW, only that kespa didn't. Tournaments are run by MBC and OGN, Kespa is only an administrative agent.

Also, calling Blizzard the "legal side" is bullshit, because it assumes the law is clear cut. Furthermore, it ignores the fact that MBC and OGN purchased the rights to broadcast BW from Blizzards former Korean partner, Hanbitsoft.

Of course Kespa makes money, guy. The individual companies that make up Kespa do so because of the advertising benefit they receive, which they perceive to give them a monetary gain. The fact they collectivized and formed a non-profit separate from their own companies is just a formality. Are you going to make us say, "the companies that make up Kespa" or will you let us graciously use Kespa to make conversation easier?
mustaju
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Estonia4505 Posts
October 23 2010 03:17 GMT
#155
A question. Why would Blizzard take this into a Korean court, especially considering how much influence the KeSPA companies have over the Korean government?
WriterBrows somewhat high. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndFysO2JunE
Enderbantoo
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States465 Posts
October 23 2010 03:19 GMT
#156
On October 23 2010 12:13 PalaceAthene wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2010 12:11 Slow Motion wrote:
BTW unless you're a Korean IP lawyer, stop talking about who is legally right. You have no idea. You've never studied Korean IP law. And even if Blizzard does end up winning, does that mean the decision was legally right? Judges make mistakes all the time and get reversed all the time. Furthermore, many decisions are extremely close and is about which party makes the best argument, not about who's right or wrong.

Sorry for the mini-rant but it just pisses me off when people who've never studied the law talk about it like they understand.


I reiterate, it's Blizzards IP, they can do whatever they want with it. Unless Korea want's to start an international dispute with an American company, which they aren't in a position to do, they have to listen to the creators of the game.

Again, many of you are arguing passion over legality.

And when I say Kespa, I mean the companies blizzard is suing, MBC and OGN


and you know that blizzard is in the legal right how? Please show me how you found that out, i'd like to know.... and by the way, instead of double posting... there IS an edit button.
At the biggest upset of all of bw, Shanghai SPL finals 2011
night terrors
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
China1284 Posts
October 23 2010 03:19 GMT
#157
On October 23 2010 12:07 Milkis wrote:
rofl the interview in that article

it makes blizzard look absolutely retarded. i can't imagine this ending up well rofl



ending up well for whom?
Through high and low, bisu boy, through high and low.
]343[
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States10328 Posts
October 23 2010 03:20 GMT
#158
hmm I feel like part of this is caused by the kespa (ogn/mbc) vs gretech rivalry

like how GOM tournaments weren't kespa sanctioned, etc etc

(in addition to Blizzard suddenly feeling like they have to "enforce IP rights")
Writer
deafhobbit
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States828 Posts
October 23 2010 03:20 GMT
#159
On October 23 2010 12:16 Romantic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2010 12:04 deafhobbit wrote:
On October 23 2010 11:57 PalaceAthene wrote:
On October 23 2010 11:41 deafhobbit wrote:
On October 23 2010 11:36 PalaceAthene wrote:
Legally, blizzard is in the right. They tried to make contracts with Kespa before, but Kespa argued that Starcraft was a public property, and they made money off of it.

It's like if you bought a movie, and made people pay to watch it. It's illegal, and it's wrong. And if Kespa dies, the GSL is there. And no doubt companies will rise from Kespas ashes to take the reins of SC:BW.


Kespa hasn't made a dime off of BW. Kespa is a committee of companies that sponsor progaming teams, and a non profit organization.


Blizzard is seeing it from the commercial side of it. Teams have sponsors that pay for them to play in these tournaments, so their is money being made. It is not the complete 'No money involved' situation you're trying to argue.

That's what this is all about:Both sides fighting for money. Kespa feels like they own Starcraft because they made it into what it is, even though without Blizzard they wouldn't exist.

So now we've got two sides:The passionate side, the ones who argue for Kespa just because they made Starcraft grow. And the legal side, which Blizzard deserves its due desserts.


You're putting words in my mouth - i never said no one made money from BW, only that kespa didn't. Tournaments are run by MBC and OGN, Kespa is only an administrative agent.

Also, calling Blizzard the "legal side" is bullshit, because it assumes the law is clear cut. Furthermore, it ignores the fact that MBC and OGN purchased the rights to broadcast BW from Blizzards former Korean partner, Hanbitsoft.

Of course Kespa makes money, guy. The individual companies that make up Kespa do so because of the advertising benefit they receive, which they perceive to give them a monetary gain. The fact they collectivized and formed a non-profit separate from their own companies is just a formality. Are you going to make us say, "the companies that make up Kespa" or will you let us graciously use Kespa to make conversation easier?


The companies that make up Kespa != Kespa. Saying that the fact that they make money from advertising through BW means that Kespa itself does is idiotic. It's tantamount to saying that if a company runs an add on NPR and makes a profit from it that NPR is a for profit organization.
I cheer for underdogs and Flash
PalaceAthene
Profile Joined September 2010
21 Posts
October 23 2010 03:20 GMT
#160
On October 23 2010 12:15 deafhobbit wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2010 12:11 PalaceAthene wrote:
On October 23 2010 12:04 deafhobbit wrote:
You're putting words in my mouth - i never said no one made money from BW, only that kespa didn't. Tournaments are run by MBC and OGN, Kespa is only an administrative agent.

Also, calling Blizzard the "legal side" is bullshit, because it assumes the law is clear cut. Furthermore, it ignores the fact that MBC and OGN purchased the rights to broadcast BW from Blizzards former Korean partner, Hanbitsoft.
On October 23 2010 12:14 ShadeR wrote:
Does Fifa pay royalties to the man who created the soccer ball?
Over and over again your stupid analogies fall on their ass.


The irony, you just made a stupid analogy.



Key word former.

The fact that Blizzard let Kespa build an industry based around Starcraft, for 8 years without saying anything is pretty generous.

You're all forgetting that Starcraft isn't a sport, it's a product used to play a sport. Blizzard has had the right to not have them pay for royalties to use their product, and they have the right to change their mind and ask Kespa to start paying Royalties.

Kespa doesn't have a leg to stand on. It's Blizzards game, Blizzards IP, and they have a right to do anything they want with it.



Yeah former, and contracts made with them were legally binding. Property rights don't give you the right to go back on contracts you've already made, or your agent made for you, even if you've changed your mind on it.

Finally, you're assuming this is a purely legal matter, which it isn't. None of us are qualified to talk about the vagaries of Korean IP law (as many people have pointed out), but what is legal and what isn't can rarely be stated objectively. Politics are deeply involved in legal processes, especially in countries like South Korea where large companies have direct ties to the government, and as it turns out a lot of those companies sponsor Proleague teams.


Contracts don't last forever. Blizzard has made it clear that they tried making a contract through Kespa, but Kespa pretty much that Blizzard should be paying them.

And again, it deals with American IP law, not Korean. Starcraft falls under American IP law, as it was made in America and not Korea.
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