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Vatican City State2594 Posts
On October 13 2010 02:47 sely wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 02:22 Murderotica wrote:On October 13 2010 02:16 snowdrift wrote:On October 13 2010 02:11 Murderotica wrote:On October 13 2010 02:03 Tha_Docta wrote:On October 13 2010 01:49 konadora wrote:
fuck you activision
fuck you blizzard
fuck you gretech
fuck you kespa
i feel so disgusted right now Relax man, I love brood war as much as the next guy, really I do. But you dont have to look at this cup as half empty, you know? With all our Brood War heroes coming to SC2 with pomp and circumstance, we are witnessing the growth of what we already loved. By the release of legacy of the void, heres to hoping the we will look back at this time and smile. Makes it obvious to me that progamers are just laborers, looking for the bigger check, not people who truly love the game. I agree with most of what you said but that's just weak. Come back to me when you've been practicing 12 hours a day for years while wallowing on the B-team with your career at a standstill like so many progamers. Plus, they can see where the wind is blowing -- should they stick it out until they're forced to retire when the teams close shop, without having planned for any contingency? Yea, they don't love the game anymore, is that what you're trying to tell me? Because that's what I said. Sure I don't doubt they loved it at some point. They just don't anymore. Making a contingency plan is different from retiring from your current job and starting a new one. A contingency plan is like... Playing SC2 during your spare time in between practice for BW. They just all jumped ship. IMO teams will always be looking to recruit former BW pros in SC2. That will never change, so they are set. The problem is that SC2 = money only for results, not for being part of a team. That's why so many people are trying to get that quick cash now. Pretty much they are placing their bets on winning/placing high in the tourney knowing that they won't get a salary if they switch to SC2. I.e. a more primitive proscene is attracting gamers just like going all-in does in poker. And the reason they don't love the game anymore isn't because of capitalism or SC2 but because they have been treated as slaves in their current situation. Your argument about having to win to make any money is totally false as well, as plenty of players (in Korean and elsewhere) are already getting paid by sponsors to play and this will only increase with time. Pro teams will develop, players will get paid salaries, and sign contracts just like in BW. So many people have a such a warped view of this situation because of their love for BW. If you expected BW leagues to continue and thrive forever you were severely out of touch with reality and this is probably a good thing for you. Stop acting like you are personally being persecuted because of corporate greed. I mean, you probably are, but not because of SC.
The slavery is what was needed to make progamers capable of winning money in the first place, as evidenced by the high level of competition. If SC2 DOESN'T become something similar, that is a flaw in SC2. To be the best you have to work the hardest, and in BW that means 12+ hours a day. This is not slavery, this is work. I imagine SC2 is a lot easier to play right now than BW is for the progamers who are B-teamers and retired vets, otherwise they wouldn't put all their chips in it. So therefore, it IS because of SC2 money whoring.
I am not being persecuted, it's not a stab at the fans but at BW, which is similar but completely different.
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France2061 Posts
On October 13 2010 02:48 Murderotica wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 02:41 snowdrift wrote:On October 13 2010 02:38 Murderotica wrote:On October 13 2010 02:29 leakingpear wrote:On October 13 2010 02:11 Murderotica wrote:On October 13 2010 02:03 Tha_Docta wrote:On October 13 2010 01:49 konadora wrote:
fuck you activision
fuck you blizzard
fuck you gretech
fuck you kespa
i feel so disgusted right now Relax man, I love brood war as much as the next guy, really I do. But you dont have to look at this cup as half empty, you know? With all our Brood War heroes coming to SC2 with pomp and circumstance, we are witnessing the growth of what we already loved. By the release of legacy of the void, heres to hoping the we will look back at this time and smile. We are not witnessing a growth we are witnessing a surrender to capitalist ideals. We can't blame them for wanting to secure a better fiscal future for themselves, but by that token we shouldn't hate Benedict Arnold for switching to what he thought was the winning side. A logical decision can have moral downfalls. That's how I feel. At the first true speedbump in the smooth running of PL, suddenly everyone jumps ship and swims to the enemy, instead of trying to keep SC1 alive they have dollar signs in their eyes. Fuck, I would do the same thing if I didn't absolutely love the game. Makes it obvious to me that progamers are just laborers, looking for the bigger check, not people who truly love the game. You say that like KeSPA haven't been abusing the eSports movement for years and years now in order to further the companies that constitute it in terms of advertising and even revenue through the PL broadcasting rights issue. The players have been systematically trained to downplay their own efforts and achievements so they don't at any point abuse their celebrity in a way that could upset the systems that KeSPA have created. This is probably the first time in 6 or 7 years that many of these progamers have thought about anything but progressing within the current rigid system, without ever questioning whether the system itself is a good idea in the first place. The Korean eSports scene thrived because of the combination of celebrity and production values, of which sponsors were needed, but ever since the Boxer boom the balance of power has slowly and steadily swung into a system where players are meant to just be grateful to play for such a venerable and great team and give up everything in order to continue. I suspect the majority of progamers still love brood war, but that doesn't mean they should love the perverted system that just happens to be the only choice, especially when they can have better prospects in a game that's very similar and has the added option of being somewhat undiscovered in terms of strategy. Also progamers are people, people with lives and not zealots for the great god brood war intent on dying for their cause, as much as you won't want to admit it, brood war is just a game and these kids probably have other ambitions down the road, like going to college, or having a family, or selling fruit. I already said that I can't blame progamers for leaving for the money. It just is depressing, because money rules everything, and a superior game will die just because it doesn't have enough money being pumped into it compared to other games. That's why KeSPA is pissing me off too. Blizzard and Gretech started this whole bullshit, but my one small hope was that competition from SC2 would force KeSPA to inject more money into the scene, improve players' work conditions etc. Instead they'll just jump ship. :/ AFAIK they don't have money, they have to get it from other people, and why would anyone invest in something if all the money is going elsewhere? Investors will be like "omg old game" and not invest a cent. KeSPA is a non-profit organization so to me this means that they only cover their own expenses and the money they generate is already re-invested in broadcasting, organizing, and moderating the scene. I'm sure that if KeSPA had 100k laying around they would make tournaments similar to GSL or at least revitalize the scene.
Well KeSPA=the sponsors associated together to control the scene, so KeSPA=the investors and broadcasters who're seeing SC2 as a way to garner more viewership and thus more eyeballs for their advertisement.
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On October 13 2010 02:32 Lightwip wrote:
To be honest, as long as copyright/loss of support doesn't sink BW, I think it will recover. A lot of the players will eventually realize that they have no future in SC2 will either return to BW or quit if everyone hates them for going to SC2. But if MSL goes or they don't get PL to run, we'll lose the proscene.
With only one individual league and no salaries there isn't enough room in SC2 for all these players anyway... i think there's going to be a lot of people switching and then shortly retiring after being unable to win something.
Also as an aside with so many young talented gamers how long are players like Boxer and NaDa really going to be at or near the top anyway, i guess they are just doing it for the possibility of some easy money while the competition is still weak, but long-term i can't see it.
Really i wish KeSPA had just been given control over SC2 in the first place because this is a horrible mess. Imagine if every team could have just had an SC2 division, and just have direct clones of the starleagues for SC2: So proleague, OSL2 and MSL2. People keep their salaries, players stay with their teams, TV deals basically already made. It'd be perfect and keep everyone happy. Now we got the whole scene split in 2 and destroying itself for fucking Gretech to run things... i feel especially bad for the up and coming players in BW who have probably played for a few years and now they get onto teams its all falling apart ffs... so sad.
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On October 13 2010 02:48 Murderotica wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 02:41 snowdrift wrote:On October 13 2010 02:38 Murderotica wrote:On October 13 2010 02:29 leakingpear wrote:On October 13 2010 02:11 Murderotica wrote:On October 13 2010 02:03 Tha_Docta wrote:On October 13 2010 01:49 konadora wrote:
fuck you activision
fuck you blizzard
fuck you gretech
fuck you kespa
i feel so disgusted right now Relax man, I love brood war as much as the next guy, really I do. But you dont have to look at this cup as half empty, you know? With all our Brood War heroes coming to SC2 with pomp and circumstance, we are witnessing the growth of what we already loved. By the release of legacy of the void, heres to hoping the we will look back at this time and smile. We are not witnessing a growth we are witnessing a surrender to capitalist ideals. We can't blame them for wanting to secure a better fiscal future for themselves, but by that token we shouldn't hate Benedict Arnold for switching to what he thought was the winning side. A logical decision can have moral downfalls. That's how I feel. At the first true speedbump in the smooth running of PL, suddenly everyone jumps ship and swims to the enemy, instead of trying to keep SC1 alive they have dollar signs in their eyes. Fuck, I would do the same thing if I didn't absolutely love the game. Makes it obvious to me that progamers are just laborers, looking for the bigger check, not people who truly love the game. You say that like KeSPA haven't been abusing the eSports movement for years and years now in order to further the companies that constitute it in terms of advertising and even revenue through the PL broadcasting rights issue. The players have been systematically trained to downplay their own efforts and achievements so they don't at any point abuse their celebrity in a way that could upset the systems that KeSPA have created. This is probably the first time in 6 or 7 years that many of these progamers have thought about anything but progressing within the current rigid system, without ever questioning whether the system itself is a good idea in the first place. The Korean eSports scene thrived because of the combination of celebrity and production values, of which sponsors were needed, but ever since the Boxer boom the balance of power has slowly and steadily swung into a system where players are meant to just be grateful to play for such a venerable and great team and give up everything in order to continue. I suspect the majority of progamers still love brood war, but that doesn't mean they should love the perverted system that just happens to be the only choice, especially when they can have better prospects in a game that's very similar and has the added option of being somewhat undiscovered in terms of strategy. Also progamers are people, people with lives and not zealots for the great god brood war intent on dying for their cause, as much as you won't want to admit it, brood war is just a game and these kids probably have other ambitions down the road, like going to college, or having a family, or selling fruit. I already said that I can't blame progamers for leaving for the money. It just is depressing, because money rules everything, and a superior game will die just because it doesn't have enough money being pumped into it compared to other games. That's why KeSPA is pissing me off too. Blizzard and Gretech started this whole bullshit, but my one small hope was that competition from SC2 would force KeSPA to inject more money into the scene, improve players' work conditions etc. Instead they'll just jump ship. :/ AFAIK they don't have money, they have to get it from other people, and why would anyone invest in something if all the money is going elsewhere? Investors will be like "omg old game" and not invest a cent. KeSPA is a non-profit organization so to me this means that they only cover their own expenses and the money they generate is already re-invested in broadcasting, organizing, and moderating the scene. I'm sure that if KeSPA had 100k laying around they would make tournaments similar to GSL or at least revitalize the scene.
KeSPA doesn't make money the same way not a single Hollywood movie makes money. *wink* *wink*
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On October 13 2010 02:38 Murderotica wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 02:29 leakingpear wrote:On October 13 2010 02:11 Murderotica wrote:On October 13 2010 02:03 Tha_Docta wrote:On October 13 2010 01:49 konadora wrote:
fuck you activision
fuck you blizzard
fuck you gretech
fuck you kespa
i feel so disgusted right now Relax man, I love brood war as much as the next guy, really I do. But you dont have to look at this cup as half empty, you know? With all our Brood War heroes coming to SC2 with pomp and circumstance, we are witnessing the growth of what we already loved. By the release of legacy of the void, heres to hoping the we will look back at this time and smile. We are not witnessing a growth we are witnessing a surrender to capitalist ideals. We can't blame them for wanting to secure a better fiscal future for themselves, but by that token we shouldn't hate Benedict Arnold for switching to what he thought was the winning side. A logical decision can have moral downfalls. That's how I feel. At the first true speedbump in the smooth running of PL, suddenly everyone jumps ship and swims to the enemy, instead of trying to keep SC1 alive they have dollar signs in their eyes. Fuck, I would do the same thing if I didn't absolutely love the game. Makes it obvious to me that progamers are just laborers, looking for the bigger check, not people who truly love the game. You say that like KeSPA haven't been abusing the eSports movement for years and years now in order to further the companies that constitute it in terms of advertising and even revenue through the PL broadcasting rights issue. The players have been systematically trained to downplay their own efforts and achievements so they don't at any point abuse their celebrity in a way that could upset the systems that KeSPA have created. This is probably the first time in 6 or 7 years that many of these progamers have thought about anything but progressing within the current rigid system, without ever questioning whether the system itself is a good idea in the first place. The Korean eSports scene thrived because of the combination of celebrity and production values, of which sponsors were needed, but ever since the Boxer boom the balance of power has slowly and steadily swung into a system where players are meant to just be grateful to play for such a venerable and great team and give up everything in order to continue. I suspect the majority of progamers still love brood war, but that doesn't mean they should love the perverted system that just happens to be the only choice, especially when they can have better prospects in a game that's very similar and has the added option of being somewhat undiscovered in terms of strategy. Also progamers are people, people with lives and not zealots for the great god brood war intent on dying for their cause, as much as you won't want to admit it, brood war is just a game and these kids probably have other ambitions down the road, like going to college, or having a family, or selling fruit. So what you're trying to tell me is that these people just blindly decided "IMA BE A PROGAMER" and didn't do any background research on what the system is like, what the (NONPROFIT) organization KeSPA does, and what their futures will be like? You serious? Have you ever applied to a job without knowing what you'll be doing or who will be your boss or what your opportunities will be? IF, on the off-chance that you have, you realize that you were getting fucked over, did you not quit? Why would these gamers wait for SC2 in order to quit if it wasn't just for more money, and not because of a flaw in KeSPA? If KeSPA is so bad, I imagine more pros would quit, and some did. But these players did so only after SC2 came out onto the scene and money was pumped into it. You think there would be anyone but retired vets who probably found no future outside of Esports if there wasn't a 100k payout? I don't. Without KeSPA there would be no scene as we know and love it today. That is all. Sure they have fucked up at times, but what major corporation/company hasn't? I already said that I can't blame progamers for leaving for the money. It just is depressing, because money rules everything, and a superior game will die just because it doesn't have enough money being pumped into it compared to other games.
Ok let's sort a few things out:
1) Stop taking such an aggressive tone for no reason, I have not been remotely antagonistic, i've been trying to be helpful and explanatory and you're getting defensive for no reason I can think of.
2) KeSPA is a non-profit organisation yes, they are however a constituent panel of associated sponsors, all of whom are intently for-profit, KeSPA was created with the intent to further the appeal of eSports and as a result generate more viewers for the constituent's advertising.
3) The situation with regards to working conditions and expectations has got consistantly worse over time, it's not a static thing and yes, later players probably do know what they're getting into, that said the vast majority are under the age of 17 and in the pursuit of what the top players achieve people make many bad/rash decisions under the pretense that they're not like the other guys who end up as B-teamers for years.
4) Once players have been in the system to the point where they might have retired, they've already given up very large portions of their education and realistically they don't have a lot of options outside of eSports.
5) The 100k payout is not the attraction for players to switch unless they're really really naive, however the attraction of a league and tournament structure that has that sort of prizepool is, because it means teams and sponsors that can financially support a player in a stable manner. Nearly all the winners of OSLs and MSLs and now the GSL give nearly all the winnings to their parents or their team anyway, these are kids who don't want a whole lot of stuff other than to play games all day, they're not looking to get a Benz.
I hope that helps clear everything up.
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France2061 Posts
On October 13 2010 02:57 andrewlt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 02:48 Murderotica wrote:On October 13 2010 02:41 snowdrift wrote:On October 13 2010 02:38 Murderotica wrote:On October 13 2010 02:29 leakingpear wrote:On October 13 2010 02:11 Murderotica wrote:On October 13 2010 02:03 Tha_Docta wrote:On October 13 2010 01:49 konadora wrote:
fuck you activision
fuck you blizzard
fuck you gretech
fuck you kespa
i feel so disgusted right now Relax man, I love brood war as much as the next guy, really I do. But you dont have to look at this cup as half empty, you know? With all our Brood War heroes coming to SC2 with pomp and circumstance, we are witnessing the growth of what we already loved. By the release of legacy of the void, heres to hoping the we will look back at this time and smile. We are not witnessing a growth we are witnessing a surrender to capitalist ideals. We can't blame them for wanting to secure a better fiscal future for themselves, but by that token we shouldn't hate Benedict Arnold for switching to what he thought was the winning side. A logical decision can have moral downfalls. That's how I feel. At the first true speedbump in the smooth running of PL, suddenly everyone jumps ship and swims to the enemy, instead of trying to keep SC1 alive they have dollar signs in their eyes. Fuck, I would do the same thing if I didn't absolutely love the game. Makes it obvious to me that progamers are just laborers, looking for the bigger check, not people who truly love the game. You say that like KeSPA haven't been abusing the eSports movement for years and years now in order to further the companies that constitute it in terms of advertising and even revenue through the PL broadcasting rights issue. The players have been systematically trained to downplay their own efforts and achievements so they don't at any point abuse their celebrity in a way that could upset the systems that KeSPA have created. This is probably the first time in 6 or 7 years that many of these progamers have thought about anything but progressing within the current rigid system, without ever questioning whether the system itself is a good idea in the first place. The Korean eSports scene thrived because of the combination of celebrity and production values, of which sponsors were needed, but ever since the Boxer boom the balance of power has slowly and steadily swung into a system where players are meant to just be grateful to play for such a venerable and great team and give up everything in order to continue. I suspect the majority of progamers still love brood war, but that doesn't mean they should love the perverted system that just happens to be the only choice, especially when they can have better prospects in a game that's very similar and has the added option of being somewhat undiscovered in terms of strategy. Also progamers are people, people with lives and not zealots for the great god brood war intent on dying for their cause, as much as you won't want to admit it, brood war is just a game and these kids probably have other ambitions down the road, like going to college, or having a family, or selling fruit. I already said that I can't blame progamers for leaving for the money. It just is depressing, because money rules everything, and a superior game will die just because it doesn't have enough money being pumped into it compared to other games. That's why KeSPA is pissing me off too. Blizzard and Gretech started this whole bullshit, but my one small hope was that competition from SC2 would force KeSPA to inject more money into the scene, improve players' work conditions etc. Instead they'll just jump ship. :/ AFAIK they don't have money, they have to get it from other people, and why would anyone invest in something if all the money is going elsewhere? Investors will be like "omg old game" and not invest a cent. KeSPA is a non-profit organization so to me this means that they only cover their own expenses and the money they generate is already re-invested in broadcasting, organizing, and moderating the scene. I'm sure that if KeSPA had 100k laying around they would make tournaments similar to GSL or at least revitalize the scene. KeSPA doesn't make money the same way not a single Hollywood movie makes money. *wink* *wink*
KeSPA is essentially an advertisement venture, so no, they don't make any money. They advertise in the hope of selling more of whatever products the sponsoring companies make, but they don't make a direct profit from the proscene. I don't know why people find this hard to understand; when Adidas sponsors a football team, you don't say, "Adidas is making money."
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I feel as though I've been stabbed through the heart.
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On October 13 2010 02:07 andrewlt wrote:
Doesn't CJ own Gretech as well as Ongamenet? So they're essentially using Gretech to be A-holes towards Kespa unless KT/SK lets them control Kespa? That's a possibility considering how differently Gretech is treating Ongamenet vs MBCgame.
And it seems Ongamenet is banking too much on Boxer becoming a force in SC2. What if they get the rights but he doesn't do well?
Knowing a little something about business I wouldn't be surprised if a complex conflict of interests situation like this was the cause for all the trouble. Especially since the Korean government itself is involved in this and corruption is rampaging there. Mix in the aspirations from a foreign multi-national company and you have a nice powder-keg sitting under the whole Korean BW/SC2 scene.
Thinking about this I can't help but to expect this all to end in disaster, probably even taking the SC2 scene down with it until Blizzard pulls the plug.
What the scene would need (just like the banking/rating sector before the financial crisis) were regulations by an independent governing body, but there is just no independent party in sight, since even the Ministry of Culture would not be regarded as unbiased by all participants.
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Well, looks like it's all over. Was fun while it lasted.
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If only half of these rumors is true, that'll spell the end of Broodwar. What a damn shame, BW and SC2 could have easily coexisted if not for politics. Hundreds of jobs are lost and young progamers are left jobless and without any proper education.
I prefer watching SC2 at the moment because it's new and shiny, but who knows if it can stand the test of time and support a huge pro scene like Broodwar could?
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On October 13 2010 02:59 snowdrift wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 02:57 andrewlt wrote:On October 13 2010 02:48 Murderotica wrote:On October 13 2010 02:41 snowdrift wrote:On October 13 2010 02:38 Murderotica wrote:On October 13 2010 02:29 leakingpear wrote:On October 13 2010 02:11 Murderotica wrote:On October 13 2010 02:03 Tha_Docta wrote:On October 13 2010 01:49 konadora wrote:
fuck you activision
fuck you blizzard
fuck you gretech
fuck you kespa
i feel so disgusted right now Relax man, I love brood war as much as the next guy, really I do. But you dont have to look at this cup as half empty, you know? With all our Brood War heroes coming to SC2 with pomp and circumstance, we are witnessing the growth of what we already loved. By the release of legacy of the void, heres to hoping the we will look back at this time and smile. We are not witnessing a growth we are witnessing a surrender to capitalist ideals. We can't blame them for wanting to secure a better fiscal future for themselves, but by that token we shouldn't hate Benedict Arnold for switching to what he thought was the winning side. A logical decision can have moral downfalls. That's how I feel. At the first true speedbump in the smooth running of PL, suddenly everyone jumps ship and swims to the enemy, instead of trying to keep SC1 alive they have dollar signs in their eyes. Fuck, I would do the same thing if I didn't absolutely love the game. Makes it obvious to me that progamers are just laborers, looking for the bigger check, not people who truly love the game. You say that like KeSPA haven't been abusing the eSports movement for years and years now in order to further the companies that constitute it in terms of advertising and even revenue through the PL broadcasting rights issue. The players have been systematically trained to downplay their own efforts and achievements so they don't at any point abuse their celebrity in a way that could upset the systems that KeSPA have created. This is probably the first time in 6 or 7 years that many of these progamers have thought about anything but progressing within the current rigid system, without ever questioning whether the system itself is a good idea in the first place. The Korean eSports scene thrived because of the combination of celebrity and production values, of which sponsors were needed, but ever since the Boxer boom the balance of power has slowly and steadily swung into a system where players are meant to just be grateful to play for such a venerable and great team and give up everything in order to continue. I suspect the majority of progamers still love brood war, but that doesn't mean they should love the perverted system that just happens to be the only choice, especially when they can have better prospects in a game that's very similar and has the added option of being somewhat undiscovered in terms of strategy. Also progamers are people, people with lives and not zealots for the great god brood war intent on dying for their cause, as much as you won't want to admit it, brood war is just a game and these kids probably have other ambitions down the road, like going to college, or having a family, or selling fruit. I already said that I can't blame progamers for leaving for the money. It just is depressing, because money rules everything, and a superior game will die just because it doesn't have enough money being pumped into it compared to other games. That's why KeSPA is pissing me off too. Blizzard and Gretech started this whole bullshit, but my one small hope was that competition from SC2 would force KeSPA to inject more money into the scene, improve players' work conditions etc. Instead they'll just jump ship. :/ AFAIK they don't have money, they have to get it from other people, and why would anyone invest in something if all the money is going elsewhere? Investors will be like "omg old game" and not invest a cent. KeSPA is a non-profit organization so to me this means that they only cover their own expenses and the money they generate is already re-invested in broadcasting, organizing, and moderating the scene. I'm sure that if KeSPA had 100k laying around they would make tournaments similar to GSL or at least revitalize the scene. KeSPA doesn't make money the same way not a single Hollywood movie makes money. *wink* *wink* KeSPA is essentially an advertisement venture, so no, they don't make any money. They advertise in the hope of selling more of whatever products the sponsoring companies make, but they don't make a direct profit from the proscene. I don't know why people find this hard to understand; when Adidas sponsors a football team, you don't say, "Adidas is making money."
Indirect profit is still profit. I don't see how a vehicle to create massive free advertising for its sponsor companies would be considered a non-profit venture. For tax purposes, yes. For all other purposes, no. There's a reason why tax accounting is different from financial accounting and why balance sheet, income sheet and statement of cash flows are three separate documents.
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On October 13 2010 03:03 Asta wrote:What the scene would need (just like the banking/rating sector before the financial crisis) were regulations by an independent governing body, but there is just no independent party in sight, since even the Ministry of Culture would not be regarded as unbiased by all participants.
Maybe if KeSPA became a government organization with elected officials or something. But government backing would be good.
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On October 13 2010 01:49 konadora wrote:
fuck you activision
fuck you blizzard
fuck you gretech
fuck you kespa
i feel so disgusted right now
This is all pretty depressing. I was still hopeful until today. Now, however... If there is no more pro-BW in Korea then I will not ever do business again with Activision, Blizzard or Gretech.
COME ON BW!
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they talk about third party ruining gsl1 , but almost every day in witch there was gsl and i connect with 15 minutes later , i couldn't connect at all ............. always saying w8 a little more there is no room for u (ah and it's low quality) , so ofcourse i will watch a restream that is in high quality
p.s something pure as bw e-sport stage was destroyed , i'm so sad , but one thing gives me consolation surly sc2 wont succed
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seems like Blizzard's strategy to force SC2 e-sports to happen in Korea is working
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On October 13 2010 03:04 andrewlt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 02:59 snowdrift wrote:On October 13 2010 02:57 andrewlt wrote:On October 13 2010 02:48 Murderotica wrote:On October 13 2010 02:41 snowdrift wrote:On October 13 2010 02:38 Murderotica wrote:On October 13 2010 02:29 leakingpear wrote:On October 13 2010 02:11 Murderotica wrote:On October 13 2010 02:03 Tha_Docta wrote:On October 13 2010 01:49 konadora wrote:
fuck you activision
fuck you blizzard
fuck you gretech
fuck you kespa
i feel so disgusted right now Relax man, I love brood war as much as the next guy, really I do. But you dont have to look at this cup as half empty, you know? With all our Brood War heroes coming to SC2 with pomp and circumstance, we are witnessing the growth of what we already loved. By the release of legacy of the void, heres to hoping the we will look back at this time and smile. We are not witnessing a growth we are witnessing a surrender to capitalist ideals. We can't blame them for wanting to secure a better fiscal future for themselves, but by that token we shouldn't hate Benedict Arnold for switching to what he thought was the winning side. A logical decision can have moral downfalls. That's how I feel. At the first true speedbump in the smooth running of PL, suddenly everyone jumps ship and swims to the enemy, instead of trying to keep SC1 alive they have dollar signs in their eyes. Fuck, I would do the same thing if I didn't absolutely love the game. Makes it obvious to me that progamers are just laborers, looking for the bigger check, not people who truly love the game. You say that like KeSPA haven't been abusing the eSports movement for years and years now in order to further the companies that constitute it in terms of advertising and even revenue through the PL broadcasting rights issue. The players have been systematically trained to downplay their own efforts and achievements so they don't at any point abuse their celebrity in a way that could upset the systems that KeSPA have created. This is probably the first time in 6 or 7 years that many of these progamers have thought about anything but progressing within the current rigid system, without ever questioning whether the system itself is a good idea in the first place. The Korean eSports scene thrived because of the combination of celebrity and production values, of which sponsors were needed, but ever since the Boxer boom the balance of power has slowly and steadily swung into a system where players are meant to just be grateful to play for such a venerable and great team and give up everything in order to continue. I suspect the majority of progamers still love brood war, but that doesn't mean they should love the perverted system that just happens to be the only choice, especially when they can have better prospects in a game that's very similar and has the added option of being somewhat undiscovered in terms of strategy. Also progamers are people, people with lives and not zealots for the great god brood war intent on dying for their cause, as much as you won't want to admit it, brood war is just a game and these kids probably have other ambitions down the road, like going to college, or having a family, or selling fruit. I already said that I can't blame progamers for leaving for the money. It just is depressing, because money rules everything, and a superior game will die just because it doesn't have enough money being pumped into it compared to other games. That's why KeSPA is pissing me off too. Blizzard and Gretech started this whole bullshit, but my one small hope was that competition from SC2 would force KeSPA to inject more money into the scene, improve players' work conditions etc. Instead they'll just jump ship. :/ AFAIK they don't have money, they have to get it from other people, and why would anyone invest in something if all the money is going elsewhere? Investors will be like "omg old game" and not invest a cent. KeSPA is a non-profit organization so to me this means that they only cover their own expenses and the money they generate is already re-invested in broadcasting, organizing, and moderating the scene. I'm sure that if KeSPA had 100k laying around they would make tournaments similar to GSL or at least revitalize the scene. KeSPA doesn't make money the same way not a single Hollywood movie makes money. *wink* *wink* KeSPA is essentially an advertisement venture, so no, they don't make any money. They advertise in the hope of selling more of whatever products the sponsoring companies make, but they don't make a direct profit from the proscene. I don't know why people find this hard to understand; when Adidas sponsors a football team, you don't say, "Adidas is making money." Indirect profit is still profit. I don't see how a vehicle to create massive free advertising for its sponsor companies would be considered a non-profit venture. For tax purposes, yes. For all other purposes, no. There's a reason why tax accounting is different from financial accounting and why balance sheet, income sheet and statement of cash flows are three separate documents.
You can hardly say there's a profit when its not even measurable. Who categorizes advertisement as profit ever? I've never heard anyone refer to it as that. It's pretty misleading for people to keep suggesting on here like KeSPA is making tons of money from BW when it's a very niche scene that requires a lot of money for upkeep.
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On October 13 2010 02:59 snowdrift wrote:
when Adidas sponsors a football team, you don't say, "Adidas is making money."
...you don't? I certainly have always seen it that way.
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17. A big European company has offered a current BW player a big contract with a condition of transitioning to SC2. It's one of those "what if he were to play SC2" type big name player. The offer is by far the biggest in SC2. The player in question has recently resigned (Stork, Leta, Jaedong, and Flash are the only publicly known ones).
Don't sell out, guys.
I actually think its great that low level A-Teamers or B-Teamers switch. But, please no to players rumoured.
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I seem to remember people adamantly claiming that effort didn't retire to play sc2.
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EPT
