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Rumors circulating in Korean E-Sports scene - Page 3

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mtvacuum
Profile Joined January 2010
United States979 Posts
October 12 2010 17:28 GMT
#41
man, that tidbit about there being no more b teams/new players is most disheartening. the skill rise in bw was mostly driven by there always being new players pushing up from below, forcing the A teamers to improve to keep their spots, and giving rise to a new generation of players as time passed. while i would love to watch flash, jaedong, stork, and bisu for another 5 years, the general level of skill in the scene would deteriorate and eventually the scene will die out.. already it looks like the number of players in pro sc2 teams are going to surpass the number of sc1 progamers soon, and most of korea's attention will be on sc2 over bw, which isn't good for bw sponsors. Anyway, I am happy that they are going to force start Proleague and am totally looking forward to it! I'll never take proleague for granted again.
-also, there's no doubt in my mind that Effort will be the best player in SC2 a couple months from now if he keeps on practicing.
BCH
Profile Joined September 2010
Philippines88 Posts
October 12 2010 17:29 GMT
#42
aw depressing..
giggity...
leakingpear
Profile Joined March 2006
United Kingdom302 Posts
October 12 2010 17:29 GMT
#43
On October 13 2010 02:11 Murderotica wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 13 2010 02:03 Tha_Docta wrote:
On October 13 2010 01:49 konadora wrote:
fuck you activision
fuck you blizzard
fuck you gretech
fuck you kespa

i feel so disgusted right now


Relax man, I love brood war as much as the next guy, really I do. But you dont have to look at this cup as half empty, you know? With all our Brood War heroes coming to SC2 with pomp and circumstance, we are witnessing the growth of what we already loved.

By the release of legacy of the void, heres to hoping the we will look back at this time and smile.

We are not witnessing a growth we are witnessing a surrender to capitalist ideals. We can't blame them for wanting to secure a better fiscal future for themselves, but by that token we shouldn't hate Benedict Arnold for switching to what he thought was the winning side. A logical decision can have moral downfalls. That's how I feel. At the first true speedbump in the smooth running of PL, suddenly everyone jumps ship and swims to the enemy, instead of trying to keep SC1 alive they have dollar signs in their eyes. Fuck, I would do the same thing if I didn't absolutely love the game. Makes it obvious to me that progamers are just laborers, looking for the bigger check, not people who truly love the game.


You say that like KeSPA haven't been abusing the eSports movement for years and years now in order to further the companies that constitute it in terms of advertising and even revenue through the PL broadcasting rights issue. The players have been systematically trained to downplay their own efforts and achievements so they don't at any point abuse their celebrity in a way that could upset the systems that KeSPA have created. This is probably the first time in 6 or 7 years that many of these progamers have thought about anything but progressing within the current rigid system, without ever questioning whether the system itself is a good idea in the first place.

The Korean eSports scene thrived because of the combination of celebrity and production values, of which sponsors were needed, but ever since the Boxer boom the balance of power has slowly and steadily swung into a system where players are meant to just be grateful to play for such a venerable and great team and give up everything in order to continue. I suspect the majority of progamers still love brood war, but that doesn't mean they should love the perverted system that just happens to be the only choice, especially when they can have better prospects in a game that's very similar and has the added option of being somewhat undiscovered in terms of strategy.

Also progamers are people, people with lives and not zealots for the great god brood war intent on dying for their cause, as much as you won't want to admit it, brood war is just a game and these kids probably have other ambitions down the road, like going to college, or having a family, or selling fruit.
Kraznaya
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States3711 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-12 17:31:12
October 12 2010 17:29 GMT
#44
Effort, if you lied to us to get a head start on Jaedong and Flash in SC2, I will never forgive you. =/

Also ironic that the man who began BW might be the one who will end it. =/
do you have enough resolve, hero of justice?
StarcraftMan
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Canada507 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-12 18:10:38
October 12 2010 17:30 GMT
#45
On October 13 2010 02:14 raga4ka wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 13 2010 01:52 StarcraftMan wrote:
On October 13 2010 01:30 sihyunie wrote:
14. Former CJ Entus player Effort is currently playing SC2, but he only recently picked it up and didn't participate in GSL2 because he felt his skill isn't good enough yet.


Effort will be the highest skilled A teamer to convert over to SC2.

No offense, but some of the denyers need to get their head out of their a**. With iloveoov and Effort switching over to SC2, former coaches trying to form SC2 teams, and current BW team with no B-teamers, BW Pro League is in a lot of trouble.


No offense , but this are still only rumors . Unless it's official it means nothing . There is also the rumor that Mike Morhaime was "bitchslaped" by the korean government . I'm geting tired of this rumors .


I don't want to go over the laundry list of rumors that became reality with respect to BW -> SC2.

Nada rumored to leave Wemade and switch over to SC2? Check

Boxer rumored to leave SKT and switch over to SC2? Check

Iloveoov rumored to be playing SC2 (even though many denied he had time to do it)? Check

You get the point.
Jakalo
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Latvia2350 Posts
October 12 2010 17:30 GMT
#46
This sucks balls, even if only like half or one third is true =[
Nostalgia is not as good as it used to be.
GoTuNk!
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
Chile4591 Posts
October 12 2010 17:30 GMT
#47
On October 13 2010 01:54 Murderotica wrote:
I wish SC2 never came out and Gretech never existed. I agree with konadora. Everyone involved killed something beautiful. If even 2-3 more of these rumors are true, it's fucking terrible and a total disaster.

I feel the same
Lightwip
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5497 Posts
October 12 2010 17:32 GMT
#48
To be honest, as long as copyright/loss of support doesn't sink BW, I think it will recover. A lot of the players will eventually realize that they have no future in SC2 will either return to BW or quit if everyone hates them for going to SC2. But if MSL goes or they don't get PL to run, we'll lose the proscene.
If you are not Bisu, chances are I hate you.
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
October 12 2010 17:32 GMT
#49
On October 13 2010 02:30 StarcraftMan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 13 2010 02:14 raga4ka wrote:
On October 13 2010 01:52 StarcraftMan wrote:
On October 13 2010 01:30 sihyunie wrote:
14. Former CJ Entus player Effort is currently playing SC2, but he only recently picked it up and didn't participate in GSL2 because he felt his skill isn't good enough yet.


Effort will be the highest skilled A teamer to convert over to SC2.

No offense, but some of the denyers need to get their head out of their a**. With iloveoov and Effort switching over to SC2, former coaches trying to form SC2 teams, and current BW team with no B-teamers, BW Pro League is in a lot of trouble.


No offense , but this are still only rumors . Unless it's official it means nothing . There is also the rumor that Mike Morhaime was "bitchslaped" by the korean government . I'm geting tired of this rumors .


I don't want to go over the laundry list of rumors that became reality with respect to BW -> SC2.

Nada rumored to leave Wemade and switch over to SC2? Check

Boxer rumored to leave Wemade and switch over to SC2? Check

Iloveoov rumored to be playing SC2 (even though many denied he had time to do it)? Check

You get the point.


Yes... Boxer on WeMade

--
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
SkelA
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Macedonia13092 Posts
October 12 2010 17:35 GMT
#50
On October 13 2010 01:54 Murderotica wrote:
I wish SC2 never came out and Gretech never existed. I agree with konadora. Everyone involved killed something beautiful. If even 2-3 more of these rumors are true, it's fucking terrible and a total disaster.


Same here .....

Well I guess this is it .... BW will be dead this time next year (or maybe sooner ). Sad but true I cant see BW suriving with all those big names leaving BW and swarming like flies to a new fresh shit.
Stork and KHAN fan till 2012 ...
Murderotica
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Vatican City State2594 Posts
October 12 2010 17:38 GMT
#51
On October 13 2010 02:29 leakingpear wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 13 2010 02:11 Murderotica wrote:
On October 13 2010 02:03 Tha_Docta wrote:
On October 13 2010 01:49 konadora wrote:
fuck you activision
fuck you blizzard
fuck you gretech
fuck you kespa

i feel so disgusted right now


Relax man, I love brood war as much as the next guy, really I do. But you dont have to look at this cup as half empty, you know? With all our Brood War heroes coming to SC2 with pomp and circumstance, we are witnessing the growth of what we already loved.

By the release of legacy of the void, heres to hoping the we will look back at this time and smile.

We are not witnessing a growth we are witnessing a surrender to capitalist ideals. We can't blame them for wanting to secure a better fiscal future for themselves, but by that token we shouldn't hate Benedict Arnold for switching to what he thought was the winning side. A logical decision can have moral downfalls. That's how I feel. At the first true speedbump in the smooth running of PL, suddenly everyone jumps ship and swims to the enemy, instead of trying to keep SC1 alive they have dollar signs in their eyes. Fuck, I would do the same thing if I didn't absolutely love the game. Makes it obvious to me that progamers are just laborers, looking for the bigger check, not people who truly love the game.


You say that like KeSPA haven't been abusing the eSports movement for years and years now in order to further the companies that constitute it in terms of advertising and even revenue through the PL broadcasting rights issue. The players have been systematically trained to downplay their own efforts and achievements so they don't at any point abuse their celebrity in a way that could upset the systems that KeSPA have created. This is probably the first time in 6 or 7 years that many of these progamers have thought about anything but progressing within the current rigid system, without ever questioning whether the system itself is a good idea in the first place.

The Korean eSports scene thrived because of the combination of celebrity and production values, of which sponsors were needed, but ever since the Boxer boom the balance of power has slowly and steadily swung into a system where players are meant to just be grateful to play for such a venerable and great team and give up everything in order to continue. I suspect the majority of progamers still love brood war, but that doesn't mean they should love the perverted system that just happens to be the only choice, especially when they can have better prospects in a game that's very similar and has the added option of being somewhat undiscovered in terms of strategy.

Also progamers are people, people with lives and not zealots for the great god brood war intent on dying for their cause, as much as you won't want to admit it, brood war is just a game and these kids probably have other ambitions down the road, like going to college, or having a family, or selling fruit.

So what you're trying to tell me is that these people just blindly decided "IMA BE A PROGAMER" and didn't do any background research on what the system is like, what the (NONPROFIT) organization KeSPA does, and what their futures will be like? You serious? Have you ever applied to a job without knowing what you'll be doing or who will be your boss or what your opportunities will be? IF, on the off-chance that you have, you realize that you were getting fucked over, did you not quit? Why would these gamers wait for SC2 in order to quit if it wasn't just for more money, and not because of a flaw in KeSPA? If KeSPA is so bad, I imagine more pros would quit, and some did. But these players did so only after SC2 came out onto the scene and money was pumped into it. You think there would be anyone but retired vets who probably found no future outside of Esports if there wasn't a 100k payout? I don't.

Without KeSPA there would be no scene as we know and love it today. That is all. Sure they have fucked up at times, but what major corporation/company hasn't?

I already said that I can't blame progamers for leaving for the money. It just is depressing, because money rules everything, and a superior game will die just because it doesn't have enough money being pumped into it compared to other games.
ǝsnoɥ ssɐlƃ ɐ uı sǝuoʇs ʍoɹɥʇ ʇ,uop || sıʇɹoɟ ɹǝdɯǝs
amazingoopah
Profile Joined January 2010
United States1925 Posts
October 12 2010 17:39 GMT
#52
seems the OSL is the only BW tourney that is on course to continue if these rumors are true. sad if true.
snowdrift
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
France2061 Posts
October 12 2010 17:41 GMT
#53
On October 13 2010 02:38 Murderotica wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 13 2010 02:29 leakingpear wrote:
On October 13 2010 02:11 Murderotica wrote:
On October 13 2010 02:03 Tha_Docta wrote:
On October 13 2010 01:49 konadora wrote:
fuck you activision
fuck you blizzard
fuck you gretech
fuck you kespa

i feel so disgusted right now


Relax man, I love brood war as much as the next guy, really I do. But you dont have to look at this cup as half empty, you know? With all our Brood War heroes coming to SC2 with pomp and circumstance, we are witnessing the growth of what we already loved.

By the release of legacy of the void, heres to hoping the we will look back at this time and smile.

We are not witnessing a growth we are witnessing a surrender to capitalist ideals. We can't blame them for wanting to secure a better fiscal future for themselves, but by that token we shouldn't hate Benedict Arnold for switching to what he thought was the winning side. A logical decision can have moral downfalls. That's how I feel. At the first true speedbump in the smooth running of PL, suddenly everyone jumps ship and swims to the enemy, instead of trying to keep SC1 alive they have dollar signs in their eyes. Fuck, I would do the same thing if I didn't absolutely love the game. Makes it obvious to me that progamers are just laborers, looking for the bigger check, not people who truly love the game.


You say that like KeSPA haven't been abusing the eSports movement for years and years now in order to further the companies that constitute it in terms of advertising and even revenue through the PL broadcasting rights issue. The players have been systematically trained to downplay their own efforts and achievements so they don't at any point abuse their celebrity in a way that could upset the systems that KeSPA have created. This is probably the first time in 6 or 7 years that many of these progamers have thought about anything but progressing within the current rigid system, without ever questioning whether the system itself is a good idea in the first place.

The Korean eSports scene thrived because of the combination of celebrity and production values, of which sponsors were needed, but ever since the Boxer boom the balance of power has slowly and steadily swung into a system where players are meant to just be grateful to play for such a venerable and great team and give up everything in order to continue. I suspect the majority of progamers still love brood war, but that doesn't mean they should love the perverted system that just happens to be the only choice, especially when they can have better prospects in a game that's very similar and has the added option of being somewhat undiscovered in terms of strategy.

Also progamers are people, people with lives and not zealots for the great god brood war intent on dying for their cause, as much as you won't want to admit it, brood war is just a game and these kids probably have other ambitions down the road, like going to college, or having a family, or selling fruit.


I already said that I can't blame progamers for leaving for the money. It just is depressing, because money rules everything, and a superior game will die just because it doesn't have enough money being pumped into it compared to other games.


That's why KeSPA is pissing me off too. Blizzard and Gretech started this whole bullshit, but my one small hope was that competition from SC2 would force KeSPA to inject more money into the scene, improve players' work conditions etc. Instead they'll just jump ship. :/
NaDa. Our Lord and sAviOr shall return. Learn to nydus you scrub
Ryo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
8787 Posts
October 12 2010 17:42 GMT
#54
On October 13 2010 02:32 Lightwip wrote:
To be honest, as long as copyright/loss of support doesn't sink BW, I think it will recover. A lot of the players will eventually realize that they have no future in SC2 will either return to BW or quit if everyone hates them for going to SC2. But if MSL goes or they don't get PL to run, we'll lose the proscene.


If they can keep proleague going, I think the BW scene will survive.
영원히 엠비씨게임 히어로 팬.
Kraznaya
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States3711 Posts
October 12 2010 17:46 GMT
#55
On October 13 2010 02:42 Ryo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 13 2010 02:32 Lightwip wrote:
To be honest, as long as copyright/loss of support doesn't sink BW, I think it will recover. A lot of the players will eventually realize that they have no future in SC2 will either return to BW or quit if everyone hates them for going to SC2. But if MSL goes or they don't get PL to run, we'll lose the proscene.


If they can keep proleague going, I think the BW scene will survive.


That's a ridiculously huge if.
do you have enough resolve, hero of justice?
sely
Profile Joined June 2009
United States30 Posts
October 12 2010 17:47 GMT
#56
On October 13 2010 02:22 Murderotica wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 13 2010 02:16 snowdrift wrote:
On October 13 2010 02:11 Murderotica wrote:
On October 13 2010 02:03 Tha_Docta wrote:
On October 13 2010 01:49 konadora wrote:
fuck you activision
fuck you blizzard
fuck you gretech
fuck you kespa

i feel so disgusted right now


Relax man, I love brood war as much as the next guy, really I do. But you dont have to look at this cup as half empty, you know? With all our Brood War heroes coming to SC2 with pomp and circumstance, we are witnessing the growth of what we already loved.

By the release of legacy of the void, heres to hoping the we will look back at this time and smile.


Makes it obvious to me that progamers are just laborers, looking for the bigger check, not people who truly love the game.


I agree with most of what you said but that's just weak. Come back to me when you've been practicing 12 hours a day for years while wallowing on the B-team with your career at a standstill like so many progamers. Plus, they can see where the wind is blowing -- should they stick it out until they're forced to retire when the teams close shop, without having planned for any contingency?

Yea, they don't love the game anymore, is that what you're trying to tell me? Because that's what I said. Sure I don't doubt they loved it at some point. They just don't anymore. Making a contingency plan is different from retiring from your current job and starting a new one. A contingency plan is like... Playing SC2 during your spare time in between practice for BW. They just all jumped ship.

IMO teams will always be looking to recruit former BW pros in SC2. That will never change, so they are set. The problem is that SC2 = money only for results, not for being part of a team. That's why so many people are trying to get that quick cash now. Pretty much they are placing their bets on winning/placing high in the tourney knowing that they won't get a salary if they switch to SC2. I.e. a more primitive proscene is attracting gamers just like going all-in does in poker.



And the reason they don't love the game anymore isn't because of capitalism or SC2 but because they have been treated as slaves in their current situation. Your argument about having to win to make any money is totally false as well, as plenty of players (in Korean and elsewhere) are already getting paid by sponsors to play and this will only increase with time. Pro teams will develop, players will get paid salaries, and sign contracts just like in BW.

So many people have a such a warped view of this situation because of their love for BW. If you expected BW leagues to continue and thrive forever you were severely out of touch with reality and this is probably a good thing for you. Stop acting like you are personally being persecuted because of corporate greed. I mean, you probably are, but not because of SC.
Kal_rA
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States2925 Posts
October 12 2010 17:47 GMT
#57
+ Show Spoiler +
fuck.
Jaedong.
Murderotica
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Vatican City State2594 Posts
October 12 2010 17:48 GMT
#58
On October 13 2010 02:41 snowdrift wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 13 2010 02:38 Murderotica wrote:
On October 13 2010 02:29 leakingpear wrote:
On October 13 2010 02:11 Murderotica wrote:
On October 13 2010 02:03 Tha_Docta wrote:
On October 13 2010 01:49 konadora wrote:
fuck you activision
fuck you blizzard
fuck you gretech
fuck you kespa

i feel so disgusted right now


Relax man, I love brood war as much as the next guy, really I do. But you dont have to look at this cup as half empty, you know? With all our Brood War heroes coming to SC2 with pomp and circumstance, we are witnessing the growth of what we already loved.

By the release of legacy of the void, heres to hoping the we will look back at this time and smile.

We are not witnessing a growth we are witnessing a surrender to capitalist ideals. We can't blame them for wanting to secure a better fiscal future for themselves, but by that token we shouldn't hate Benedict Arnold for switching to what he thought was the winning side. A logical decision can have moral downfalls. That's how I feel. At the first true speedbump in the smooth running of PL, suddenly everyone jumps ship and swims to the enemy, instead of trying to keep SC1 alive they have dollar signs in their eyes. Fuck, I would do the same thing if I didn't absolutely love the game. Makes it obvious to me that progamers are just laborers, looking for the bigger check, not people who truly love the game.


You say that like KeSPA haven't been abusing the eSports movement for years and years now in order to further the companies that constitute it in terms of advertising and even revenue through the PL broadcasting rights issue. The players have been systematically trained to downplay their own efforts and achievements so they don't at any point abuse their celebrity in a way that could upset the systems that KeSPA have created. This is probably the first time in 6 or 7 years that many of these progamers have thought about anything but progressing within the current rigid system, without ever questioning whether the system itself is a good idea in the first place.

The Korean eSports scene thrived because of the combination of celebrity and production values, of which sponsors were needed, but ever since the Boxer boom the balance of power has slowly and steadily swung into a system where players are meant to just be grateful to play for such a venerable and great team and give up everything in order to continue. I suspect the majority of progamers still love brood war, but that doesn't mean they should love the perverted system that just happens to be the only choice, especially when they can have better prospects in a game that's very similar and has the added option of being somewhat undiscovered in terms of strategy.

Also progamers are people, people with lives and not zealots for the great god brood war intent on dying for their cause, as much as you won't want to admit it, brood war is just a game and these kids probably have other ambitions down the road, like going to college, or having a family, or selling fruit.


I already said that I can't blame progamers for leaving for the money. It just is depressing, because money rules everything, and a superior game will die just because it doesn't have enough money being pumped into it compared to other games.


That's why KeSPA is pissing me off too. Blizzard and Gretech started this whole bullshit, but my one small hope was that competition from SC2 would force KeSPA to inject more money into the scene, improve players' work conditions etc. Instead they'll just jump ship. :/

AFAIK they don't have money, they have to get it from other people, and why would anyone invest in something if all the money is going elsewhere? Investors will be like "omg old game" and not invest a cent. KeSPA is a non-profit organization so to me this means that they only cover their own expenses and the money they generate is already re-invested in broadcasting, organizing, and moderating the scene. I'm sure that if KeSPA had 100k laying around they would make tournaments similar to GSL or at least revitalize the scene.
ǝsnoɥ ssɐlƃ ɐ uı sǝuoʇs ʍoɹɥʇ ʇ,uop || sıʇɹoɟ ɹǝdɯǝs
LuckyMacro
Profile Joined July 2010
United States1482 Posts
October 12 2010 17:49 GMT
#59
On October 13 2010 01:49 konadora wrote:
fuck you activision
fuck you blizzard
fuck you gretech
fuck you kespa

i feel so disgusted right now


this
Ikonn
Profile Joined October 2009
Netherlands1958 Posts
October 12 2010 17:51 GMT
#60
On October 13 2010 02:47 Pedo.Bear wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
fuck.


preach
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