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zenMaster
Canada761 Posts
On October 15 2010 04:20 StorkHwaiting wrote: Yeaaaah! Progress is at hand! I want to see Stork in SC2 sooo bad. It's too bad there's no fking reavers in SC2 -_- But but but, they have collosi! ROFL. | ||
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Pyrrhuloxia
United States6700 Posts
On October 15 2010 04:20 StorkHwaiting wrote: Yeaaaah! Progress is at hand! I want to see Stork in SC2 sooo bad. It's too bad there's no fking reavers in SC2 -_- Well maybe with this void ray nerf we will start to see some carriers | ||
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gm.tOSS
Germany898 Posts
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PoP
France15446 Posts
On October 15 2010 02:12 cerebralz wrote: Who were all the foreigners winning stuff the last few years? WhiteRa, Nony, Ret, Idra, Sen, Select. Everyone who has had a chance to go to Korea to compete, all changed to SC2. People who were skeptical: Tasteless, Day9, Incontrol, Artosis, etc. All changed their minds. When i listen to things like State of the game, i hear things like, it can be better than BW, it's strategically beautiful, and it's progressed far beyond BW in the same amount of time. How exactly is evolving at a quicker rate an advantage for the game though? You also have to take into account the various personal interests (whether professional or not) most of these people you mention have for SC2. Everyone's favorite caster wants to get esports moving in the west, Tasteless/Artosis can finally start being full-time gamecasters for a kind of game they love and have a lot of experience in, while IdrA/ret/etc want to (attempt to) make a living off it. (Etc. etc.) I don't mean it like all of them actually try to convince themselves when they give that much credit to SC2 and its future but that's probably just as much what they hope happen than what they predict. The game is good and popular enough already for these hopes to be more than reasonable, though. | ||
Falling
Canada11607 Posts
On October 15 2010 06:21 PoP wrote: How exactly is evolving at a quicker rate an advantage for the game though? You also have to take into account the various personal interests (whether professional or not) most of these people you mention have for SC2. Everyone's favorite caster wants to get esports moving in the west, Tasteless/Artosis can finally start being full-time gamecasters for a kind of game they love and have a lot of experience in, while IdrA/ret/etc want to (attempt to) make a living off it. (Etc. etc.) I don't mean it like all of them actually try to convince themselves when they give that much credit to SC2 and its future but that's probably just as much what they hope happen than what they predict. The game is good and popular enough already for these hopes to be more than reasonable, though. I do appreciate that this is a reasonably stated argument, but I've never quite understood this argument. How many gamers switching to SC2 would it take for us to stop suspecting their motivations, beyond the foreigners we now have Boxer, Nada, Julyzerg, etc that have joined. What would convince a person that they are doing it for the competition and that it's fun? How many would have to switch and for how long? I've heard much more extreme statements along these lines- that the foreigners have only joined because they have a shot at SC2 even though they know the game sucks. But after awhile it just seems like character assassination. Could not a similar argument be leveled at the SC2 naysayers, who by and large seem to come from the B and C levels in iCCUP? (Misrah comes to mind.) Could it be that they're simply mad that they've put so much effort into the game and now they have no chance to prove themselves because the top echelons of iCCUP is moving on? I don't think this is the case, but if we're speculating on motivations of the top foreigners, why stop there? Why not assign nefarious motivations to the naysayers? Again, your particular post is reasonably stated, but I've heard this line of argument by far more aggressive posters before. | ||
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pyrogenetix
China5098 Posts
now to wait and see what happens with sc2 | ||
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PoP
France15446 Posts
On October 15 2010 06:43 Falling wrote: I do appreciate that this is a reasonably stated argument, but I've never quite understood this argument. How many gamers switching to SC2 would it take for us to stop suspecting their motivations, beyond the foreigners we now have Boxer, Nada, Julyzerg, etc that have joined. What would convince a person that they are doing it for the competition and that it's fun? How many would have to switch and for how long? Well that wasn't my point--I have absolutely 0 doubt in my mind that these players, or at least most of them, have switched "for the competition and because it's fun". But that's not at all incompatible with (as persons, or even as a community) wanting to achieve something with that game that was harder to achieve in SC1. Hoping things turn out as well as possible (aka SC2 getting huge and even bigger/better than BW) makes obvious sense as it would render the said achievements most meaningful. In short, anyone with a goal related to a product like SC2 is, to some extent, naturally going to try and convince themselves and others that it's "worth it". That's just basic psychology. And that doesn't mean at all that they don't love the game or find it amazing in the first place. | ||
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champignones
Panama160 Posts
"Behold my greatest creation." - Dark Voice about starcraft....2? | ||
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Woosung
65 Posts
On October 15 2010 06:21 gm.tOSS wrote: If Kespa would have negotiated with Blizzard from the start this wouldn't have been this ugly. Kespa was the problem from the start. I don't get why so many people hate Blizzard for this, they didn't ask for much. Oh okay... ...Wait what? "1. Set the contract term for using its games to 1 year 2. Prior approvals about all league operations such as contracting sponsorship, marketing materials, broadcasting plan 3. License fee for running of league and all license fee of sponsorship inducement 4. Ownership of all broadcasted programs, program videos 5. Right to audit KeSPA" You're saying this isn't much to ask for? Okay then, can you please tell me what your definition of much is? On October 15 2010 08:48 champignones wrote: "As I was your beginning - so shall I be... your end." - Dark Voice about scbw PRO scene "Behold my greatest creation." - Dark Voice about starcraft....2? "Behold 1/3 of my greatest creation."? Still don't think so though, unless you're one of those people still insisting on Counter-Strike: Source's superiority over Counter-Strike 1.6, which is pretty non-existant. Edit: That's sorta why I'm really uneasy about this whole situation. See what happened to that game? No-one except some americans even play that game anymore. The 1.6-scene was able to keep itself alive, mostly because of European teams and sponsors. Imagine if Valve/Steam managed to shut the whole thing down just after launching CS:S... Makes me wonder what game the FPSers would play today. They'd surely lose a lot of the general eSport-interest... Edit2: Oh yeah, and they don't have to contact Valve prior to making any tournament. Nor do they have to give up the right to the demos. | ||
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Pyrrhuloxia
United States6700 Posts
On October 15 2010 08:48 champignones wrote: "As I was your beginning - so shall I be... your end." - Dark Voice about scbw PRO scene "Behold my greatest creation." - Dark Voice about starcraft....2? We thought it would take a lot of time for the SC2 scene to become dominant, but it is already fully armed and operational. | ||
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infinity2k9
United Kingdom2397 Posts
Just because people switched games to get in their early doesn't give any indication of if it will be a long term healthy eSports. To be brutally honest in fact i think you will see people coming back from Korea soon when they realize they can't compete with dedicated B-Teamer level Koreans, and hardly any foreigners at the top tournaments leaving them just to the foreigner tournaments yet again. | ||
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kariido
Saudi Arabia179 Posts
On October 15 2010 10:08 infinity2k9 wrote: The top foreigners switched because they couldn't compete at the highest levels of BW simple as that, and of course Day9/Tasteless and all the rest of them act very positive about the game it's in their interest to. Not that they think the game sucks but its pretty blatant whats happening, any question to these people about comparison to BW they avoid it completely. Just give the same things we've heard constantly 'It'll take time', even though all evidence points to stagnation and a skill cap reached far quicker than BW. But when you have someone whos more honest like Morrow they have some negative opinions about the game and its long-term potential. What were Morrow's comments about SC2? | ||
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infinity2k9
United Kingdom2397 Posts
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cerebralz
United States443 Posts
In fact, the slightly lower learning curve and mechanical prowess needed to win, which are reviled aspects of SC2 by the core BW fans, probably ensures that this won't happen and there will continue to be competitive foreigners in Korea for years to come. As long as people have quick minds as well as hands, as well as a brilliant map-making community, the game will probably do well in the future. That is still only conjecture though. Like anything else electronic or tech based, there can always come something else to replace it in a snap. | ||
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Trang
Australia324 Posts
On October 15 2010 10:33 infinity2k9 wrote: There was a very negative post by an oldschool BW gamer in regards to SC2, complaining about the simplified mechanics and just lack of interesting features. It was pretty hyperbolic, but MorroW posted in the thread said he agreed with most of it. It was a recent thread i can't find it now though. You mean NTT? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=158486 | ||
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rsol
Australia117 Posts
On October 15 2010 10:08 infinity2k9 wrote:But when you have someone whos more honest like Morrow they have some negative opinions about the game and its long-term potential. If you are going to quote arguments that sc2 will fail because 'it isn't mechanically complicated enough', you should probably take them from the old bw coaches over some angsty euro teen having a hissy fit. | ||
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Vedic
United States582 Posts
On October 15 2010 10:33 infinity2k9 wrote: There was a very negative post by an oldschool BW gamer in regards to SC2, complaining about the simplified mechanics and just lack of interesting features. It was pretty hyperbolic, but MorroW posted in the thread said he agreed with most of it. It was a recent thread i can't find it now though. Funny, since I believe Nada said that the game was harder in many ways, just a few days ago. | ||
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_awake_
196 Posts
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Falling
Canada11607 Posts
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StarSense
206 Posts
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