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On October 13 2010 03:36 Slow Motion wrote:
And here come the SC2 fans yelling about world "domiantion." I like SC2/GSL and hope it succeeds, but if you don't realize what esports would be without pro-BW I feel really bad for you.
Has it occurred to you that some of us want E-Sports to go to the next level - to have even bigger success that BW?
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lol give the fucking game a break. it's 2 months old and you want to see it as an e-sports already?
maybe let it develop?
fucking digsusting.
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thanks for posting, lot of info..
bw dieing so fast tho :{
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konadora
Singapore66366 Posts
On October 13 2010 03:39 StarcraftMan wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 03:36 Slow Motion wrote:
And here come the SC2 fans yelling about world "domiantion." I like SC2/GSL and hope it succeeds, but if you don't realize what esports would be without pro-BW I feel really bad for you. Has it occurred to you that some of us want E-Sports to go to the next level - to have even bigger success that BW?
and kill BW in the process?
sounds awesome!
not.
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On October 13 2010 03:27 dtz wrote:
if a person as succesful as effort actually left the bw scene to play sc2, i guess we underestimate how bad the living conditions were for these pros, much less the practice partners and B-teamers. Practice partners even has to eat the less nice food and do errands in the training house. It was something similar to slavery it seems and even if you initially loved the game and do it for the passion, at some point, they were probably sick of it.
I am guessing that effort wish for a change in environment was the reason for the switch. I doubt it was because he liked sc2 more than bw or that he wanted to get a headstart.( i am assuming here).
If these rumours were to be true and if there is anything to be learnt from the inevitable death of bw, it will be that the authority(whoever it will be, Kespa or Gretch) will reward these athletes who pour in 12+ hours of training better living condition and salary. And i mean across the board and not just the Flashes and Jaedongs.
It will be a waste the whole spartan regime just end up transferring from sc2 to bw. BW has a lot of good things for SC2 to copy from but this is not one of them I feel.
Huh? Maybe it comes as a shock to you that in an organisation the more senior pple get to pick their food first and that elders get juniors to run errands for them. But this is nothing new and certainly not limited to progaming. It's just the way many Asian cultures are.
In my family the kids can't eat yet until the adults start eating. Same logic.
It's a culture where seniority matters a lot and if you're going to liken that to slavery, then that's very insulting.
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95% these people going to SC2 will realize they won't win jack shit then return to make a fixed earning with BW. As long as ProLeague survives this full year, it will give them enough time to realize the fact that Blizzard-E-spots is a sham.
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Looks like all great news, imo.
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On October 13 2010 03:39 StarcraftMan wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 03:36 Slow Motion wrote:
And here come the SC2 fans yelling about world "domiantion." I like SC2/GSL and hope it succeeds, but if you don't realize what esports would be without pro-BW I feel really bad for you. Has it occurred to you that some of us want E-Sports to go to the next level - to have even bigger success that BW?
The best way to ensure SC2 becomes a bigger success than BW is to get Blizzard to spend more time making SC2 better, rather than suing people to try to shut BW down and get pros to switch.
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On October 13 2010 02:51 Murderotica wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 02:47 sely wrote:On October 13 2010 02:22 Murderotica wrote:On October 13 2010 02:16 snowdrift wrote:On October 13 2010 02:11 Murderotica wrote:On October 13 2010 02:03 Tha_Docta wrote:On October 13 2010 01:49 konadora wrote:
fuck you activision
fuck you blizzard
fuck you gretech
fuck you kespa
i feel so disgusted right now Relax man, I love brood war as much as the next guy, really I do. But you dont have to look at this cup as half empty, you know? With all our Brood War heroes coming to SC2 with pomp and circumstance, we are witnessing the growth of what we already loved. By the release of legacy of the void, heres to hoping the we will look back at this time and smile. Makes it obvious to me that progamers are just laborers, looking for the bigger check, not people who truly love the game. I agree with most of what you said but that's just weak. Come back to me when you've been practicing 12 hours a day for years while wallowing on the B-team with your career at a standstill like so many progamers. Plus, they can see where the wind is blowing -- should they stick it out until they're forced to retire when the teams close shop, without having planned for any contingency? Yea, they don't love the game anymore, is that what you're trying to tell me? Because that's what I said. Sure I don't doubt they loved it at some point. They just don't anymore. Making a contingency plan is different from retiring from your current job and starting a new one. A contingency plan is like... Playing SC2 during your spare time in between practice for BW. They just all jumped ship. IMO teams will always be looking to recruit former BW pros in SC2. That will never change, so they are set. The problem is that SC2 = money only for results, not for being part of a team. That's why so many people are trying to get that quick cash now. Pretty much they are placing their bets on winning/placing high in the tourney knowing that they won't get a salary if they switch to SC2. I.e. a more primitive proscene is attracting gamers just like going all-in does in poker. And the reason they don't love the game anymore isn't because of capitalism or SC2 but because they have been treated as slaves in their current situation. Your argument about having to win to make any money is totally false as well, as plenty of players (in Korean and elsewhere) are already getting paid by sponsors to play and this will only increase with time. Pro teams will develop, players will get paid salaries, and sign contracts just like in BW. So many people have a such a warped view of this situation because of their love for BW. If you expected BW leagues to continue and thrive forever you were severely out of touch with reality and this is probably a good thing for you. Stop acting like you are personally being persecuted because of corporate greed. I mean, you probably are, but not because of SC. The slavery is what was needed to make progamers capable of winning money in the first place, as evidenced by the high level of competition. If SC2 DOESN'T become something similar, that is a flaw in SC2. To be the best you have to work the hardest, and in BW that means 12+ hours a day. This is not slavery, this is work. I imagine SC2 is a lot easier to play right now than BW is for the progamers who are B-teamers and retired vets, otherwise they wouldn't put all their chips in it. So therefore, it IS because of SC2 money whoring. I am not being persecuted, it's not a stab at the fans but at BW, which is similar but completely different.
The slavery is needed? That's the most absurd thing I've heard in a while. Do professional football teams play 12+ hours a day every day? No, they don't. I think that is entirely too much and gives the profession a bad name. There should be some restrictions set so that pro gamers don't get burned out.
Another thing is that SC2 is a fun game to watch and play for many people. Not everyone is "jumping ship" because they see more money in SC2 than BW.
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"sc2 is a fun game to watch"
rofl
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On October 13 2010 03:39 StarcraftMan wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 03:36 Slow Motion wrote:
And here come the SC2 fans yelling about world "domiantion." I like SC2/GSL and hope it succeeds, but if you don't realize what esports would be without pro-BW I feel really bad for you. Has it occurred to you that some of us want E-Sports to go to the next level - to have even bigger success that BW?
I'll bet you anything that SC2 will never reach the peak of BW. What evidence do you have that it would be a bigger success anyway? Since never indicates that so far at all.
On October 13 2010 03:48 atarianimo wrote:
The slavery is needed? That's the most absurd thing I've heard in a while. Do professional football teams play 12+ hours a day every day? No, they don't. I think that is entirely too much and gives the profession a bad name. There should be some restrictions set so that pro gamers don't get burned out.
Another thing is that SC2 is a fun game to watch and play for many people. Not everyone is "jumping ship" because they see more money in SC2 than BW.
Stop fucking misusing the term slavery. And there will always be players willing to put 12+ hours in and the effort needed. And those players will have the advantage. There's people doing that right now.. if you want to compete at the highest level you have to, that's why no foreigners could ever compete in BW.
On October 13 2010 03:46 zenMaster wrote:
95% these people going to SC2 will realize they won't win jack shit then return to make a fixed earning with BW. As long as ProLeague survives this full year, it will give them enough time to realize the fact that Blizzard-E-spots is a sham.
GSL is already too crowded for everyone to make money. Also i wonder how fast the current foreigners in Korea will leave...
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The greatest game ever made is finally dying out.
Fuck starcraft 2. Fuck shiny graphics. Fuck blizzard.
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On October 13 2010 03:48 Slow Motion wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 03:39 StarcraftMan wrote:On October 13 2010 03:36 Slow Motion wrote:
And here come the SC2 fans yelling about world "domiantion." I like SC2/GSL and hope it succeeds, but if you don't realize what esports would be without pro-BW I feel really bad for you. Has it occurred to you that some of us want E-Sports to go to the next level - to have even bigger success that BW? The best way to ensure SC2 becomes a bigger success than BW is to get Blizzard to spend more time making SC2 better, rather than suing people to try to shut BW down and get pros to switch.
Best thing for blizzard to ensure sc2 becomes a big success is to make sure that sc2 becomes a big success. Why should they even care about an older game? PL can continue, if kespa realizes that it does not own the rights to broadcast blizzard games and that it must negotiate with gretech to get these rights for its league. Blizzard is doing 100% what it thinks is best for esports and blizzard games by setting a precedent. Kespa is truly the only problem in the proleague situation.
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is awesome32282 Posts
Makes me wonder how much about this stuff Coach Cho knew when he decided to retire.
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On October 13 2010 03:39 StarcraftMan wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 03:36 Slow Motion wrote:
And here come the SC2 fans yelling about world "domiantion." I like SC2/GSL and hope it succeeds, but if you don't realize what esports would be without pro-BW I feel really bad for you. Has it occurred to you that some of us want E-Sports to go to the next level - to have even bigger success that BW?
BW is/was still growing, its potential was unlimited, how can you say that you want it to go to the next level when there is no set level to overcome
human ignorance is amazing some times
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Yes Broodwar is an awesome game and I really like it (and still do)
But what make a game a GOOD game ?
Better, what make a GOOD game an AWESOME game to watch (not even play) ?
Its the players that play it at a really high level. Its those players that come with insane new strategy, micro tricks that make us watch a game and say WOW that is amazing.
In my opinion, we give Broodwar itself too much credit (of course it deserver a lot of it since the game itself is the base of everything) and the players themself deserve most of it for the creativity and perfect execution.
So, whats my point ? Well if we conclude that the PLAYERS are the reason the game is fun to watch, can we conclude that if thoses players (the sames) play another game, that new game will become awesome ? (if we take into consideration that the 2 games have the same BASIC IDEA)
I think we can say yes.
Is BW and SC2 the same game ? of course not
Does BW and SC2 share the same BASIC concept ? I think we can say yes.
Can we (anyone of us) honestly say we know everything about SC2 already and that every strategy have been found and exploited ? After seen Cool games in GSL, I think a lot of us got surprised ! So the answer is no.
If those S-Class player showed us AMAZING new trick for years, can we trust them to do the same in SC2 ? I think they deserve that we beleive in them.
So basicly I dont care if a GAME die (been BW or not) What I would care is:
S-Class player not playing anymore
No more game of those players been shown to the world so we can enjoy their nice play
And I dont think any of those 2 will happen.
Those progamer worked COUNTLESS hours to prove all of you that their is 1 thing no one tought was possible in a game and they will show it to you, Those players deserve the respect and they deserve that we believe in them in another game (SC2) !
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On October 13 2010 03:52 darmousseh wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 03:48 Slow Motion wrote:On October 13 2010 03:39 StarcraftMan wrote:On October 13 2010 03:36 Slow Motion wrote:
And here come the SC2 fans yelling about world "domiantion." I like SC2/GSL and hope it succeeds, but if you don't realize what esports would be without pro-BW I feel really bad for you. Has it occurred to you that some of us want E-Sports to go to the next level - to have even bigger success that BW? The best way to ensure SC2 becomes a bigger success than BW is to get Blizzard to spend more time making SC2 better, rather than suing people to try to shut BW down and get pros to switch. Best thing for blizzard to ensure sc2 becomes a big success is to make sure that sc2 becomes a big success. Why should they even care about an older game? PL can continue, if kespa realizes that it does not own the rights to broadcast blizzard games and that it must negotiate with gretech to get these rights for its league. Blizzard is doing 100% what it thinks is best for esports and blizzard games by setting a precedent. Kespa is truly the only problem in the proleague situation.
It's funny because you actually believe Blizzard just has the best interests of eSports in mind. Despite all of their actions showing otherwise, from Bnet 2.0 to their activities in Korea. Please try and think for yourself, just a little bit.
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On October 13 2010 03:44 konadora wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 03:39 StarcraftMan wrote:On October 13 2010 03:36 Slow Motion wrote:
And here come the SC2 fans yelling about world "domiantion." I like SC2/GSL and hope it succeeds, but if you don't realize what esports would be without pro-BW I feel really bad for you. Has it occurred to you that some of us want E-Sports to go to the next level - to have even bigger success that BW? and kill BW in the process? sounds awesome! not.
Kona, I don't know how much longer BW Pro League would last even if SC2 never existed. BW Pro League had a great 10 year run but could it last another 10 years?
You have to look at this from another side too. I'm sure you have a sweet spot for Nada, Boxer, etc. Now we can watch our favorite BW Bonjwas become relevant again. Would you not even slightly enjoy a potential Boxer vs Nada final? I'm quite happy that Boxer and Nada can resurrect their career and to be frank, I am cheering for Nada and Boxer over the new generation SC2 players like Fruitdealer, etc.
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On October 13 2010 03:39 StarcraftMan wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 03:36 Slow Motion wrote:
And here come the SC2 fans yelling about world "domiantion." I like SC2/GSL and hope it succeeds, but if you don't realize what esports would be without pro-BW I feel really bad for you. Has it occurred to you that some of us want E-Sports to go to the next level - to have even bigger success that BW?
What is happening at the moment is big step backwards for e-sports.
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On October 13 2010 03:52 darmousseh wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 03:48 Slow Motion wrote:On October 13 2010 03:39 StarcraftMan wrote:On October 13 2010 03:36 Slow Motion wrote:
And here come the SC2 fans yelling about world "domiantion." I like SC2/GSL and hope it succeeds, but if you don't realize what esports would be without pro-BW I feel really bad for you. Has it occurred to you that some of us want E-Sports to go to the next level - to have even bigger success that BW? The best way to ensure SC2 becomes a bigger success than BW is to get Blizzard to spend more time making SC2 better, rather than suing people to try to shut BW down and get pros to switch. Best thing for blizzard to ensure sc2 becomes a big success is to make sure that sc2 becomes a big success. Why should they even care about an older game? PL can continue, if kespa realizes that it does not own the rights to broadcast blizzard games and that it must negotiate with gretech to get these rights for its league. Blizzard is doing 100% what it thinks is best for esports and blizzard games by setting a precedent. Kespa is truly the only problem in the proleague situation.
It's not the best for esports when BW dies, and all of us watch SC2 hoping it will be just as good. This means that our expectations of SC2 will be impossibly high, especially for a game so early in its development as an esport. This means people will be pissed off and disappointed with the whole scene.
The best thing for esports is always for gamers to deliver the best and most high level games possible. Right now BW is the best medium for that. It really hurts thinking about all the great games we saw just in the past year, and how we might not see any of that in the future.
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EPT
