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Vatican City State2594 Posts
On October 13 2010 03:56 StarcraftMan wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 03:44 konadora wrote:On October 13 2010 03:39 StarcraftMan wrote:On October 13 2010 03:36 Slow Motion wrote:
And here come the SC2 fans yelling about world "domiantion." I like SC2/GSL and hope it succeeds, but if you don't realize what esports would be without pro-BW I feel really bad for you. Has it occurred to you that some of us want E-Sports to go to the next level - to have even bigger success that BW? and kill BW in the process? sounds awesome! not. Kona, I don't know how much longer BW Pro League would last even if SC2 never existed. BW Pro League had a great 10 year run but could it last another 10 years? You have to look at this from another side too. I'm sure you have a sweet spot for Nada, Boxer, etc. Now we can watch our favorite BW Bonjwas become relevant again. Would you not even slightly enjoy a potential Boxer vs Nada final? I'm quite happy that Boxer and Nada can resurrect their career and to be frank, I am cheering for Nada and Boxer over the new generation SC2 players like Fruitdealer, etc.
I don't give two shits about Boxer or anyone else playing SC2 because they are not relevant to me if they are playing SC2. I get no joy from it, it only tells me that they were too weak to compete in SC. Why would I watch inferior players playing an inferior game? Oh sure Boxer might do something awesome but like in BW it will be temporary, and in this case diluted because it's a new game where on the grand scale of things the best players right now are NOT that good, because if they were they would still be playing BW. A washed-up Boxer or Nada is not the Boxer or Nada I want to see. I want to see Boxer nuke rushing Killer, Nada taking Jangbi to 5 sets, etc. etc. Both of them know that that won't happen anymore if they keep playing BW, so they switch to SC2. It's like a C- player knowing he won't ever get to C so he just makes 100 D level accounts and stomps noobs. Boring.
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On October 13 2010 04:10 StarcraftMan wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 03:58 wiesel wrote:
What is happening at the moment is big step backwards for e-sports. "A big European company has offered a current BW player a big contract with a condition of transitioning to SC2. It's one of those "what if he were to play SC2" type big name player. The offer is by far the biggest in SC2. The player in question has recently resigned (Stork, Leta, Jaedong, and Flash are the only publicly known ones" When was the last time a big European company was willing to offer a big contract to a BW player, a contract that is more lucrative than what the local Korean companies are willing to provide? The contract in question obviously pays more than what the team for this player is paying him. How is this a step backwards when big European sponsors are jumping into the E-Sports scene?
Because it's possible that this could kill one of the most successful e-Sports franchises in history (probably the most successful) in favor of a game that has no guarantee of taking off.
Sponsorships are nice, but if no fans show up to games, then the scene will die quickly. Most of these companies that are offering sponsorships are probably assuming, "Hey! Look at how big BW progaming is! That means SC2 will be just as popular!" Really, there's no evidence of that yet.
But admittedly, I don't really care that much about eSports as a whole. For me personally and many others, I just don't see SC2 ever giving me the same excitement that BW did. I would be lying if I said that that doesn't give me some bias in this situation. But even so, I don't think you should necessarily look at companies pouring money into SC2 as a guarantee of success, especially when there's so much shit going on that could disillusion potential fans.
Frankly, it's obvious that Blizzard is trying to kill the current BW scene in Korea at this point, to shove in SC2 in its place. While perhaps profitable, it is a spit in the face to everyone that has built up the BW scene in Korea over 10 years, and it baffles me that you would actually argue it as a good thing. No one should be supporting this.
So you think SC2 will be a better proscene than BW? Okay, if that's true, then let it build on its own. If it really is that much better, then it will eventually develop on its own, and likely kill BW anyway. But it is not cool for Blizzard to just go in with the forceps and tear BW out and stick SC2 in.
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Do we know anything about the amateur team houses other than fOu?
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Also noooooooo MBCGame HERO please stay around! Seaaaaaaaaaaa 
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Can't help but think KESPA might have overplayed its hand and thought they were on a stronger foundation than they actually were.
Won't really know anything until all the facts come out though.
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On October 13 2010 03:44 konadora wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 03:39 StarcraftMan wrote:On October 13 2010 03:36 Slow Motion wrote:
And here come the SC2 fans yelling about world "domiantion." I like SC2/GSL and hope it succeeds, but if you don't realize what esports would be without pro-BW I feel really bad for you. Has it occurred to you that some of us want E-Sports to go to the next level - to have even bigger success that BW? and kill BW in the process? sounds awesome! not.
this thread is disgusting and makes me want to puke.
i don't want BW to die, i fucking love the game, still play it
WPAHFPJEWOPFJPWJFPOPWE RAGE!!!
blizzard just doesn't give a fuck for it's most loyal supporters throughout the decade
warcraft 2, 5 copies of sc 1 for cd key, 2 copies of d2/lod, 3 copies of warraft/ft....
and now they won't ever get my money again.
fuckk!
rajepfjawepojfpoawefaw
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Without getting into the arguments, I'd like to say thank you to sihyunie, Milkis & others for keeping us updated on the latest rumors and information. Will continue to watch for updates.
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On October 13 2010 02:03 Tha_Docta wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 01:49 konadora wrote:
fuck you activision
fuck you blizzard
fuck you gretech
fuck you kespa
i feel so disgusted right now Relax man, I love brood war as much as the next guy, really I do. But you dont have to look at this cup as half empty, you know? With all our Brood War heroes coming to SC2 with pomp and circumstance, we are witnessing the growth of what we already loved. By the release of legacy of the void, heres to hoping the we will look back at this time and smile.
what?
i do not gain the same satisfaction watching a sc2 game vs bw game.
can you seriously say that cool vs rainbow or whoever gaems are better than savior in his prime against nada?
jaedong vs fantasy in their epic clashes?
jaedong vs flash when it aint one sided?
yellow vs boxer...
pafowejpajfepoajf
sc2 matches don't come close to bw and i am enraged they are trying their best to kill of the best RTS game in the world.
fuck sc2
i hope it fails
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On October 13 2010 01:30 sihyunie wrote:
3. Ongamenet is not very confident that they will be broadcasting Proleague. This is reflected in that they slotted their Kartrider league on Tuesdays 6:30PM, which would conflict with Proleague's 5 day schedule.
Ongamenet will still do Proleague, just on weekends.
4. MBCgame appears to be going in the direction of completely shutting down MSL. As most of you know, they forced Bigfile MSL and STX Masters Cup without any negotiation with Gretech. This has caused Gretech to completely ignore MBCgame in any of their negotiations.
MBCgame cannot open an individual league even if it wants to. With them likely to not be a part of Proleague, they are looking to move in another direction. Probably will take at least 6 months. If they can't be a part of Proleague, they are looking into giving up MBCgame HERO team.
6. Gretech is not willing to back out from shutting MBCgame out of Proleague. From the beginning, Gretech didn't really want proleague to start at all. They don't want the original Saturday through Wednesday schedule as it will conflict with GSL, but KeSPA is not willing to negotiate on that matter. So Gretech took the position that MBCgame cannot broadcast Proleague, which makes running Proleague basically impossible.
No more MSL? No more OSL? No more proleague?
Fuck, I feel so fucking ashamed to have this starcraft 2 cd in my tray right now. Hands are shaking I'm so upset.
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konadora
Singapore66358 Posts
ogn will still do proleague? THANK GOD.
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On October 13 2010 04:34 Garaman wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 02:03 Tha_Docta wrote:On October 13 2010 01:49 konadora wrote:
fuck you activision
fuck you blizzard
fuck you gretech
fuck you kespa
i feel so disgusted right now Relax man, I love brood war as much as the next guy, really I do. But you dont have to look at this cup as half empty, you know? With all our Brood War heroes coming to SC2 with pomp and circumstance, we are witnessing the growth of what we already loved. By the release of legacy of the void, heres to hoping the we will look back at this time and smile. what? i do not gain the same satisfaction watching a sc2 game vs bw game. can you seriously say that cool vs rainbow or whoever gaems are better than savior in his prime against nada? jaedong vs fantasy in their epic clashes? jaedong vs flash when it aint one sided? yellow vs boxer... pafowejpajfepoajf sc2 matches don't come close to bw and i am enraged they are trying their best to kill of the best RTS game in the world. fuck sc2 i hope it fails
Wow mad much?
SC2 had been out few months BW years. While it is unfortunate that this is happening, you are talking like the players are being forced to switch, while this might end up being true for some, many have taken their own initiatives to do so: Effort, MVP, NaDa, Boxer to name a few.
Jaedong has voiced his thoughts on SC2 and said he sees himself switching when the time is right.
There is interest to switch to SC2 from the SC1 scene. This situation is unfortunate and I am saddened by it, but given the history of Gretech, OGN, MBC and Kespa and their past conflicts, it it not suprising for Gretech to be giving a big "fuck you" to them.
I have no sympathy for Kespa or any other party in this situation, I just feel bad for the current players and commentators, especially some of the up and comers who are getting caught in the crossfire.
They dont really know what will happen in the future, their current lifestyle is threatened. Their scene is in disarray, while SC2 is thriving. Overall not a very good situation for them.
Even though SC2 got me back into the scene and that is my current interest, I was really hoping to get into and watch the SC1 scene this coming PL
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my my, doesn't these BW fanboys that clings on to their dying sport sounds exactly like religious fanatics/evangelist?
insightful OP i'd say, this truly is a time of great disturbance yes? so... maybe Rekrul would be kind enough to share more inside stories perhaps...
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This is awesome news for SC2.
I'm sincerely sorry for BW fans if these rumors are true though. Hopefully in time you'll enjoy watching SC2.
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Man, I really hope I get to watch more sc1 pro scene. The arguments and "bw going down" threads didn't seem so realistic until now...
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On October 13 2010 04:41 Shizuru~ wrote:
my my, doesn't these BW fanboys that clings on to their dying sport sounds exactly like religious fanatics/evangelist?
my my, don't these SC2 fanboys that preach their new and upcoming "sport" sound exactly like preachers of new religion, pointing out flaws in the old religious systems?
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On October 13 2010 04:41 Shizuru~ wrote:
my my, doesn't these BW fanboys that clings on to their dying sport sounds exactly like religious fanatics/evangelist?
/facepalm
we enjoy watching BW more than SC2. what is so irrational about that?
I've already explained that I won't be that upset if SC2 turns out better than BW and has a thriving proscene, even if BW dies in that process. What's upsetting is that BW may be forced out by Blizzard's bullshit.
On October 13 2010 04:45 TOloseGT wrote:
This is awesome news for SC2.
I'm sincerely sorry for BW fans if these rumors are true though. Hopefully in time you'll enjoy watching SC2.
If SC2 needs this much effort and bullying to get off the ground, then it's hardly good news for you.
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On October 13 2010 02:58 leakingpear wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2010 02:38 Murderotica wrote:On October 13 2010 02:29 leakingpear wrote:On October 13 2010 02:11 Murderotica wrote:On October 13 2010 02:03 Tha_Docta wrote:On October 13 2010 01:49 konadora wrote:
fuck you activision
fuck you blizzard
fuck you gretech
fuck you kespa
i feel so disgusted right now Relax man, I love brood war as much as the next guy, really I do. But you dont have to look at this cup as half empty, you know? With all our Brood War heroes coming to SC2 with pomp and circumstance, we are witnessing the growth of what we already loved. By the release of legacy of the void, heres to hoping the we will look back at this time and smile. We are not witnessing a growth we are witnessing a surrender to capitalist ideals. We can't blame them for wanting to secure a better fiscal future for themselves, but by that token we shouldn't hate Benedict Arnold for switching to what he thought was the winning side. A logical decision can have moral downfalls. That's how I feel. At the first true speedbump in the smooth running of PL, suddenly everyone jumps ship and swims to the enemy, instead of trying to keep SC1 alive they have dollar signs in their eyes. Fuck, I would do the same thing if I didn't absolutely love the game. Makes it obvious to me that progamers are just laborers, looking for the bigger check, not people who truly love the game. You say that like KeSPA haven't been abusing the eSports movement for years and years now in order to further the companies that constitute it in terms of advertising and even revenue through the PL broadcasting rights issue. The players have been systematically trained to downplay their own efforts and achievements so they don't at any point abuse their celebrity in a way that could upset the systems that KeSPA have created. This is probably the first time in 6 or 7 years that many of these progamers have thought about anything but progressing within the current rigid system, without ever questioning whether the system itself is a good idea in the first place. The Korean eSports scene thrived because of the combination of celebrity and production values, of which sponsors were needed, but ever since the Boxer boom the balance of power has slowly and steadily swung into a system where players are meant to just be grateful to play for such a venerable and great team and give up everything in order to continue. I suspect the majority of progamers still love brood war, but that doesn't mean they should love the perverted system that just happens to be the only choice, especially when they can have better prospects in a game that's very similar and has the added option of being somewhat undiscovered in terms of strategy. Also progamers are people, people with lives and not zealots for the great god brood war intent on dying for their cause, as much as you won't want to admit it, brood war is just a game and these kids probably have other ambitions down the road, like going to college, or having a family, or selling fruit. So what you're trying to tell me is that these people just blindly decided "IMA BE A PROGAMER" and didn't do any background research on what the system is like, what the (NONPROFIT) organization KeSPA does, and what their futures will be like? You serious? Have you ever applied to a job without knowing what you'll be doing or who will be your boss or what your opportunities will be? IF, on the off-chance that you have, you realize that you were getting fucked over, did you not quit? Why would these gamers wait for SC2 in order to quit if it wasn't just for more money, and not because of a flaw in KeSPA? If KeSPA is so bad, I imagine more pros would quit, and some did. But these players did so only after SC2 came out onto the scene and money was pumped into it. You think there would be anyone but retired vets who probably found no future outside of Esports if there wasn't a 100k payout? I don't. Without KeSPA there would be no scene as we know and love it today. That is all. Sure they have fucked up at times, but what major corporation/company hasn't? I already said that I can't blame progamers for leaving for the money. It just is depressing, because money rules everything, and a superior game will die just because it doesn't have enough money being pumped into it compared to other games. Ok let's sort a few things out: 1) Stop taking such an aggressive tone for no reason, I have not been remotely antagonistic, i've been trying to be helpful and explanatory and you're getting defensive for no reason I can think of. 2) KeSPA is a non-profit organisation yes, they are however a constituent panel of associated sponsors, all of whom are intently for-profit, KeSPA was created with the intent to further the appeal of eSports and as a result generate more viewers for the constituent's advertising. 3) The situation with regards to working conditions and expectations has got consistantly worse over time, it's not a static thing and yes, later players probably do know what they're getting into, that said the vast majority are under the age of 17 and in the pursuit of what the top players achieve people make many bad/rash decisions under the pretense that they're not like the other guys who end up as B-teamers for years. 4) Once players have been in the system to the point where they might have retired, they've already given up very large portions of their education and realistically they don't have a lot of options outside of eSports. 5) The 100k payout is not the attraction for players to switch unless they're really really naive, however the attraction of a league and tournament structure that has that sort of prizepool is, because it means teams and sponsors that can financially support a player in a stable manner. Nearly all the winners of OSLs and MSLs and now the GSL give nearly all the winnings to their parents or their team anyway, these are kids who don't want a whole lot of stuff other than to play games all day, they're not looking to get a Benz.I hope that helps clear everything up.
you are incorrect in this point. these kids are switching over due to the new scene and hoping to place in the money in the monthly tournaments of GSL. the idea of giving money to their parents... it is more the cultural factor. usually families stick and live together past the point of adults... especially with prices in seoul for housing. (you can spend a couple milllion to buy a 3 br apartment/condo). they aren't looking to buy a benz, but they are looking forward to easier lifestyle with more spending money. also, they won't give it to their team. the scene is not made up of selfless people who are trying to build up an industry from the ground up (like xellos and go when they had no sponsors). no, the money will be pocketed by players and families and some of it will be spent to buy a good meal for the rest of the team who helped them practice....
UGH
fuck sc2
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On October 13 2010 04:48 matjlav wrote:If SC2 needs this much effort and bullying to get off the ground, then it's hardly good news for you.
Lol, get off your high horse.
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On October 13 2010 04:38 konadora wrote:
ogn will still do proleague? THANK GOD.
If there even is a Proleague. MBC unable to broadcast, OGN only on weekends...?
On October 13 2010 04:41 Shizuru~ wrote:
my my, doesn't these BW fanboys that clings on to their dying sport sounds exactly like religious fanatics/evangelist?
My, my, don't these anti-BW people sound like idiotic newfags? I enjoy both Brood War and Starcraft 2, but if the success of Starcraft 2 depends on the death of the much better, much more fun to watch BW, then fuck SC2.
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On October 13 2010 04:45 TOloseGT wrote:
This is awesome news for SC2.
I'm sincerely sorry for BW fans if these rumors are true though. Hopefully in time you'll enjoy watching SC2.
i really have to quote this. its exactly what i think and im sure nearly every single sc2 player is thinking that way.
its really sad that bw seems to be dying out. i watched it for years. day for day i came home and instantly watched every new vod in baezzis channel. so many happy hours i have spent with bw.
but for esports to grow we really need sc2. you can only get new players and more public attention if you got something new. sadly, bw was becoming slightly smaller from year to year (even though they got korean air as a sponsor, just watch at the finals crowds). of course, bw would live and stay big for at least 3-5 years. but esports should be bigger.
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EPT
