EPTWorried about Courage - Page 2
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Ares[Effort]
DEMACIA6550 Posts
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aimaimaim
Philippines2167 Posts
IF the viewership declines when PL pushes through .. then that will be the deciding factor for BW's death. This is the reason why Gretech wants to kill PL. | ||
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skindzer
Chile5114 Posts
On September 16 2010 13:08 er.misrah wrote: So i am confused, money may get them at first, but it's not going to keep them around if no one is willing to front the cash for the turny. the only reason some one is going to provide a cash prize, is so they can make more money from the advertising and view rating. If the game you are trying to get people to watch is stale, then were is this incentive? This is exactly the point. Im not arguing about SC2 succeding to kill BW, im saying that Courage Tournament embodies the health of BW. Obviously Courage will never be stopped by Kespa (unless they kill proleague and thats a whooole different story ) but Courage CAN die because of the players. Most of the discussion since the GOM negotiaton fiasco goes around legal stuff and Kespa going on with the Proleague regardless of the possible consequences. And even if Kespa gets the right tomorrow to use Broodwar FOREVER theres a core issue for Broodwar to survive in the not so long run that is not being addressed. Simply put: NEW(good) PLAYERS. Kespa is obviously in charge of preserving Broodwar, but in order to do this THEY MUST incentive new participants to "enter the business" obviously the beautiful and interesting games do they part but they need to work on getting NEW participants and NEW instances for these participants. (I say participants because im not refering exclusively about players) This can be achieved by giving more support to amateur leagues, stablishing minimum garanties for B- Teamers, incentivating school competition, etc. This is not something im making up right now this are all ideas that have been tought for years as good ways to help BW grow even more. Im saying in the current era thinking an developing new methods for this to happen is a neccesity for a sustainable BW scene. | ||
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Mortician
Bulgaria2332 Posts
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alffla
Hong Kong20321 Posts
On September 16 2010 14:17 Mortician wrote: Nice right-up but...in the second picture, OOV is the guy on the left ^^ im pretty sure he knows that lol. anyway nice write up i never thought about courage D: | ||
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Ideas
United States8171 Posts
edit- how similar is the current situation to when war3 1st came out? anyone around back then want to shine any light? | ||
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Subversive
Australia2229 Posts
1.- Freepass. All teams in proleague (Except ACE i presume), get 2-3 per season that grant the bearer progamer status, they can use this as they please. They tend to use this with "Practice Partners" or B- Teamers (not 100% sure on this) that cant get trough Courage. You said you're not sure though, so can anyone say definitively what the case is? | ||
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bubblegumbo
Taiwan1296 Posts
So yea now is the time to get in while it's still easy. | ||
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palexhur
Colombia730 Posts
On September 16 2010 13:31 FindingPride wrote: bw is a casual game. lold. sc2 seems to work on a large variety of computers and the interface is much more friendly. I can only see it doing much better in that regards to its predecessor Do you realize that actually in SK BW is an e-sport and not a casual game for some people?, tell me how many posts are you going to write this time to let us know that SC2 is greater than BW? | ||
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Ares[Effort]
DEMACIA6550 Posts
On September 16 2010 14:33 Subversive wrote: I was under the impression that the B-teamers automatically have pro licences by virtue of being on pro-teams? You said that the teams consider giving away their free passes to these players... You said you're not sure though, so can anyone say definitively what the case is? To be part of a pro team's B team you have to be a pro gamer, they use those passes on practice partners who do fairly well in training games but just don't have the right mindset to pass courage or just a bad day, for whatever reason can't pass courage. | ||
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skindzer
Chile5114 Posts
On September 16 2010 14:23 Ideas wrote: edit- how similar is the current situation to when war3 1st came out? anyone around back then want to shine any light? WAR 3 growed in armony with BW, besides 1 or 2 progamers that switchet to try luck. But it wasnt too good as an spectator sport + it was too slow + theres was this HUGE scandal when a network pulled a lastshadow on some maps favoring a race (think it was orc) to help some players. This happened during the early tournaments so so WC3 was seen as less serious than BW. Also WC3 didnt have Boxers or Xellos or Nadas or Yellows or etc.. Afaik only Moon are Grubby area really known outside the scene. (Not 100% sure cause i dont follow the WC3 at all) As a matter of fact, after a while some WC3 progamers switched to BW, most notably  DarkElf who looked really promising when he started. (This was around the one who shall not be remembered era iirc) who actually said that he switched because BW was more prestigious. | ||
ArvickHero
10387 Posts
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Mortician
Bulgaria2332 Posts
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Heimatloser
Germany1494 Posts
look at it as a sword, which is sharp because you sharpened it. maybe the not so sharp players dont go to courage anymore, but those who would cut through all the rest still are there. theres no loss in quality, just in quantity + Show Spoiler + in my dreams... | ||
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stafu
Australia1196 Posts
On September 16 2010 13:12 overt wrote: If it doesn't have the casual players now and doesn't gain casual players as a fanbase in the future then it doesn't matter that Gretech and Blizzard tried to sell it as an eSport or that B-teamers are going there. Without fans to bring in advertisers SC2 will never take off like BW did and is continuing to do. Frankly, unless SC2 catches on within the next three years or so in South Korea it will die at the professional level. Sure, it'll still continue and stuff but you won't see it televised or see giant prize pools like you're seeing now. You don't need casual gamers, you need spectators. BW isn't even the most popular game in South Korean PC bangs. The game just has to be exciting to watch. Look at WoW, it's the most casual game around with 10 million+ players, but it will never be a true e-sport because spectating it is about as fun as watching paint dry (and people are finally starting to realise this if my last visit to WoWRiot is any indication). Do you think all those girls who show up to every proleague and OSL/MSL game play BW competitively? Some might, but I'd say most BW spectators just enjoy watching the game and following the players, just as most football spectators don't play themselves. I see SC2 growing in Korea already, especially now that Fomos is giving it a lot of attention (which hasn't really been discussed on TL, but I think is a really important move) and famous players like July are switching over/creating new teams. GSL has been progressing smoothly and the timing is pretty much perfect (off-season for BW). People are obviously hesitant at first, but it's clearly gaining momentum and will only grow exponentially imo. | ||
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Yodo
Russian Federation327 Posts
1. Mediocrity players. SC2 mostly consist from old SC1 players and B-teamers who cant perform well in SC1. Which automatically leads to competition between B and C lvl players. Even top fights are far below in comparison to average SC1 level of the game. No points to watch it (at least for me). So, why do people watch it? The answer is - hype. If Blizz or GOM stop forcing SC2, cut prize money etc it will die. SC2 need a lot of promotion and babysitting as it doesn't posses anything attractive at current stage. 2. Game design. SC2 more resemble W3 than SC1 in my humble opinion. The general problems are maps (too small, no place for strategical control) and one-big-blob army. Most of the games is like macro-macro-macro one big fight, the end. Maybe after expansions things will change but SC2 needs to survive until then. W3 was unable to overweight SC1 due to similar reasons but back then SC1 was not so old. Now people unconsciously feel that SC1 outdated and die which can lead to SC2 victory on e-scene. | ||
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Too_MuchZerg
Finland2818 Posts
On September 16 2010 17:01 Mortician wrote: Freedom was bad, had around 20 televised games and for a reason, now plays SC2 Still was enough to beat Jaedong @ Proleague :D | ||
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Eggm
United States152 Posts
On September 16 2010 13:08 d_so wrote: i think until sc2 starts paying salaries you're going to see a healthy amount of amateurs remain in BW; most people prefer security over high risk/ high reward scenarios This is exactly how I feel. I'm not worried about BW at all.  | ||
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Ideas
United States8171 Posts
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Woony
Germany6657 Posts
On September 16 2010 18:18 Yodo wrote: SC2 has its own problems: 1. Mediocrity players. SC2 mostly consist from old SC1 players and B-teamers who cant perform well in SC1. Which automatically leads to competition between B and C lvl players. Even top fights are far below in comparison to average SC1 level of the game. No points to watch it (at least for me). So, why do people watch it? The answer is - hype. If Blizz or GOM stop forcing SC2, cut prize money etc it will die. SC2 need a lot of promotion and babysitting as it doesn't posses anything attractive at current stage. 2. Game design. SC2 more resemble W3 than SC1 in my humble opinion. The general problems are maps (too small, no place for strategical control) and one-big-blob army. Most of the games is like macro-macro-macro one big fight, the end. Maybe after expansions things will change but SC2 needs to survive until then. W3 was unable to overweight SC1 due to similar reasons but back then SC1 was not so old. Now people unconsciously feel that SC1 outdated and die which can lead to SC2 victory on e-scene. Starcraft 2 is about 2 months old, better players, better gameplay, more harassment and better maps come with time. It's not like broodwar suddenly became the game it's now. It took years and years. | ||
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