|
On September 01 2010 06:02 checo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2010 05:55 amazingoopah wrote:
Also, who is KesPa trying to kid here? They make no money out of running proleague? They must be a pretty altruistic bunch though I seriously doubt they go through all the trouble of coordinating a year long league just out of the goodness of their hearts. Maybe they can try to pay off Blizzard with some chicken? hey it worked for STX when they paid off Oz! This... Kespa is no TL.Net, TL does all this for us just because they want, kespa has show so many times they do it for money...
I don't think you understand what KeSPA is... there doesn't have to be a monetary income for it to be worth it. KeSPA is comprised of the team sponsors, and they are in this whole thing for PR from the beginning. They shell out considerable costs running their teams (housing, food, uniforms, computer equipment, full time coaching staff, transportation, cooking/cleaning personnel, etc) and they benefit by getting a good image for it and with any luck, some additional sales of their products by the fans (though it can't be proven that its actually worth the investment). This is just like how many large corporations spend money for image even if they don't get something directly for it (Pepsi college scholarships for an example).
The only ones profiting directly from this are the broadcasters (OGN/MBCGame) who sell advertisement spots, though they also have costs involved with running their studios for broardcasting all the leagues/shows involved (I would imagine they still come out on top quite a bit). Aside from selling advertisements though, BW doesn't bring in money since no merchandise is sold by most teams (not on any meaningful level), there are no ticket sales and admission to all BW events is 100% free.
Its true that KeSPA has done a lot of dumb/greedy things over the years, and they're certainly no saints. Charging broadcasting rights from OGN/MBC in 2007 was one of those things (even though they were the absolute power over the Proleague) and I disagreed with a lot of their past decisions,
I'll take this time to also admit that I don't think KeSPA and they have done some greedy things in the past (like charging a broadcast fee) which I disgreed with, not to mention some very stupid decisions over the years, but I'm with them on this one.
|
Who gets shafted?
The progamers. The fans. AKA everyone who actually matters in terms of the long-run viability of e-Sports.
|
|
|
This is going to get ugly, I wonder if BW will live on without kespa.
Just my luck, I was going to visit korea next summer.
|
On September 01 2010 05:36 VorcePA wrote:
I think it's kind of hilarious that you all think the BW scene will die if KeSPA pulls the leagues and disbands the teams and attacks North Korea and resurrects Hitler. It won't. A new power will rise to the occasion, because people will make money wherever there is a market.
Do you even know what Kespa is? Kespa is basically an organization representing the 11 team sponsor's interests. If you remove the 11 sponsors (11 of Korea's largest companies, and the ones that have shown themselves willing to fund such teams), then you've removed a giant chunk of the sponsorship money that goes into paying the players, funding the leagues, and so on. Other sponsors won't just magically appear to provide the same amount of funding as before.
On September 01 2010 05:36 VorcePA wrote:
Brood War, just 2 years ago, was almost a USD 100,000,000 / year industry, and that's just straight profit from broadcasting the games. Let's not even get in to the dynamics of sponsors and merchandise. There is money to be made with Starcraft: Brood War, with or without KeSPA, and someone will seize the day if the current power is ousted from their thrones.
Good job making up facts and figures. You really think the broadcasters get 100 million USD per year from sponsors "straight profit from broadcasting the games"? And there's almost no merchandising, BTW.
|
Blizzard is very smart though. Being partners with GOMTV is just "divide et impera".
Anyway, I'm with Blizzard because KeSPA has failed so many times and has also prevented us from watching some nice showmatches. If they were really for E-Sports, then they wouldn't deny sc2.
|
I think Kespa is very willfully pushing this to a court decision.
And while they're not 100% just in the matter neither is activision and their "our IP, our EVERYTHING" stance.
I expect an arbitrated decision where Kespa gets a better deal than gretech is offering now.
P.S. Blizzard should have given BW to Korea as a gift and taken a tax write-off.
|
blizz never shouldve merged with activision vivendi
|
Kespa can't disband all pro teams, they just run the SC1 pro league, a different organization can arise to organize a SC1 league or the pro teams can all switch to SC2.
SC1 ratings have been falling for the last 3 years in Korea and I think transferring to SC2 will change all that.
|
10387 Posts
Don't players who win tourneys in Korea have to pay a huge tax of their winnings if they don't have a progamer license? If I recall that's why the progamer license was created in the first place, to avoid the tax. And Kespa could very well fuck over GOM and its GSL by invoking that tax if its still relevant.
|
Its true that KeSPA has done a lot of dumb/greedy things over the years, and they're certainly no saints. Charging broadcasting rights from OGN/MBC in 2007 was one of those things (even though they were the absolute power over the Proleague)
How is this stupid/greedy ? They basically pay a lot of money to organize all this (Kespa = sponsors) so it's only natural they want some chunk broadcasters make from it.
If you organize football league for example you charge big $$$ from tv stations too.
What is greedy and completely stupid is to try to charge Kespa.
I am fan of SCBW pro scene and I hate Blizzard for trying to kill it and bring their new quite shitty (for kibitzers, i have no doubt it's great to play) game instead.
Maybe it's necessary step though. No sport/esport is possible in the longterm if one company is in charge of everything. Everywhere else (american pro leagues like NBA etc.) the league organizers are in charge and this is much more healthy situation.
|
On September 01 2010 07:21 slimshady wrote:
Blizzard is very smart though. Being partners with GOMTV is just "divide et impera".
Anyway, I'm with Blizzard because KeSPA has failed so many times and has also prevented us from watching some nice showmatches. If they were really for E-Sports, then they wouldn't deny sc2.
Being partners with GOM on its own isn't a huge stake in Korea. GOMTV isn't very well liked, and they aren't actually a TV station, that's where OGN comes in for them (though I hope if things hit the wall, OGN will side along with MBC and KeSPA).
And when have they prevented us watching "some nice showmatches"? the shit with Nada was already sorted out. Got any actual examples?
|
On September 01 2010 07:40 thehitman wrote:
Kespa can't disband all pro teams, they just run the SC1 pro league, a different organization can arise to organize a SC1 league or the pro teams can all switch to SC2.
SC1 ratings have been falling for the last 3 years in Korea and I think transferring to SC2 will change all that.
And find another 11 major companies to pay the players' salaries, housings, food, travel expenses etcetc? Fat chance.
KeSPA = the sponsors, not some greedy third part company that has nothing to do with the teams at all. Also I don't think the sponsors, with this standpoint, would let their teams switch to SC2 just like that.
|
On September 01 2010 07:40 thehitman wrote:
Kespa can't disband all pro teams, they just run the SC1 pro league, a different organization can arise to organize a SC1 league or the pro teams can all switch to SC2.
SC1 ratings have been falling for the last 3 years in Korea and I think transferring to SC2 will change all that.
Based on what?, sorry you are making asumptions and for your post you dont know what is Kespa, it is not an "organization", It is the companies that for whatever reason want to spend money sponsoring e-sports (good luck finding 11 sponsors in a niche market), and they are not going to switch to SC2 so easy because BW in Korea is a cultural thing. SC2 will be succesful in Korea as an e-sport only if surpasses the level of BWs viewers, not because some uninformed guys in a forum say: "SC2 is new and i got the feeling that is going to be bigger than BW".
|
As much as I hate KESPA they organize the only tournaments I'm interested in watching. If Blizz is behind the end of PL and the MSL that is the end of my involvement and interest in E-SPORTS besides watching EVO.
I don't care about SC2 in the slightest bit, I don't even know what the units are. This really sucks for me.
|
Responding to this, KeSPA has revealed that "Because we have decided to pay a usage fee for the Intellectual property for the Proleague, we have no reason to promote Starcraft 2 or help GomTV. If Gretech is like this, then there isn't any more point of negotiations".
Fuck yeah. Screw them.
|
On September 01 2010 07:54 sAAvior wrote:Show nested quote +Its true that KeSPA has done a lot of dumb/greedy things over the years, and they're certainly no saints. Charging broadcasting rights from OGN/MBC in 2007 was one of those things (even though they were the absolute power over the Proleague) How is this stupid/greedy ? They basically pay a lot of money to organize all this (Kespa = sponsors) so it's only natural they want some chunk broadcasters make from it. If you organize football league for example you charge big $$$ from tv stations too. What is greedy and completely stupid is to try to charge Kespa.
What was stupid was that that they caused a scandal by creating broadcasting rights and then charging for them while they didn't hold actual IP to it. It was within their rights to charge for broadcasting proleague (and in doing so allowing OGN and MBC to carry it) but also opened up the doors to the dispute with Blizzard. This matter could and should have simply been decided on behind closed doors back then, since OGN and MBC are both represented on the board but the negotiations were made public which later caused Blizzard to step in and call out pieces of the pie. They were wrong then and Blizzard is wrong now.
|
Because we don't make any profit from the Proleague, and the 11 progame teams all pay quite a considerable amount of money for team operations and the board of directors free, it's quite difficult to pay Gretech reimbursement in any sort of currency.
Because we have decided to pay a usage fee for the Intellectual property for the Proleague
So which one is it?
|
On September 01 2010 08:11 Teddyman wrote:Show nested quote +Because we don't make any profit from the Proleague, and the 11 progame teams all pay quite a considerable amount of money for team operations and the board of directors free, it's quite difficult to pay Gretech reimbursement in any sort of currency. Show nested quote +Because we have decided to pay a usage fee for the Intellectual property for the Proleague So which one is it?
Probably both? They had a hard time getting the money, but they decided to do so either way?
|
"Because we have decided to pay a usage fee for the Intellectual property for the Proleague, we have no reason to promote Starcraft 2 or help GomTV. If Gretech is like this, then there isn't any more point of negotiations".
I think this is just a hypothetical situation.
Even if they paid to broadcast BW, but would still be required to schedule around GSL, which they don't want to do.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
