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how good was grrr - Page 6

Forum Index > BW General
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Piy
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Scotland3152 Posts
August 08 2010 15:44 GMT
#101
Geez what a flame war.

Eventually it comes down to how much you practice, but the amount of unnecessary flaming here is a shame
My. Copy. Is. Here.
Judicator
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States7270 Posts
August 08 2010 16:02 GMT
#102
I don't know, Grrr... had a problem which for whatever reason banked on the same strategy (Reaver to Carrier) for a lot of games later on in his career. Was it because he wasn't practicing as much or what?

I can only comment on what I saw since back then we don't have coverage like we do now

That being said, I don't doubt ANY of the former old school players from coming back and doing work on the current scene, stuff like this is like riding a bike, the fundamentals are there, the rest is just motivation and practice. You certainly don't just forget all the non-game specific things you learned.
Get it by your hands...
Antisocialmunky
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States5912 Posts
August 08 2010 16:59 GMT
#103
Hey I was looking for some pics of Grr... and found this thread:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=71352

Highlights:
+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]
One of the very few white guys that got to perform in one of those crazy costumes.
(They need to run a Nostalgia tournament with the space suits ^_^)

+ Show Spoiler +

Grr and Maynard displaying their heterosexuality.
[image loading]

[゚n゚] SSSSssssssSSsss ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Marine/Raven Guide:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=163605
Waxangel
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
United States33503 Posts
August 08 2010 17:02 GMT
#104
oh shit, is that former female progamer Lena in that pic? I forgot she existed -_-
AdministratorHey HP can you redo everything youve ever done because i have a small complaint?
swanized
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
Canada2480 Posts
August 08 2010 17:08 GMT
#105
On August 08 2010 20:16 Manifesto7 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 08 2010 20:01 swanized wrote:
On August 08 2010 16:03 Boonbag wrote:
On August 08 2010 06:00 swanized wrote:
On August 08 2010 05:37 Tossim111 wrote:
On August 08 2010 05:10 randomKo_Orean wrote:
On August 08 2010 04:59 Necosarius wrote:
^You mean Grrr would be B- if he had the same skills he had back in 2000? No way, D+/C- max.


I say C/C+.

Grrr was god among men



grrr... would be way above those kinds of players still now, his skills back then are still way more better than todays generation of players, the only thing he would need is todays build orders


nonsense



Grrr would struggle in D+ possibly,


you know why Grrr fell? Grrr thought using hotkeys was a waste of time and hotkeys were not necessary for good plays

On August 08 2010 19:57 Manifesto7 wrote:
On August 08 2010 06:00 swanized wrote:
On August 08 2010 05:37 Tossim111 wrote:
On August 08 2010 05:10 randomKo_Orean wrote:
On August 08 2010 04:59 Necosarius wrote:
^You mean Grrr would be B- if he had the same skills he had back in 2000? No way, D+/C- max.


I say C/C+.

Grrr was god among men



grrr... would be way above those kinds of players still now, his skills back then are still way more better than todays generation of players, the only thing he would need is todays build orders


nonsense



Grrr would struggle in D+ possibly,


you know why Grrr fell? Grrr thought using hotkeys was a waste of time and hotkeys were not necessary for good plays

once Koreans got mechanically correct Grrr fell

If Grrr came to ICCUP with today's build orders and his skills of 2000 he would struggle in D


This is a really ignorant post. There are a whole slew of people that are inherently talented at BW, Nony, Grrr, Midian, Testie, ret, Nazgul, etc, that when they come back to BW they reach an extremely high level after a handful of games.

Obviously if giyom used 2000 build orders he would lose, but he wouldn't. His natural skill at this game would come through very quickly and he would dominate everyone but the top in-practice players.

If you want a practical example, you could witness Nazgul who came back from years of inactivity to go 1-2 PvT vs inDove, an SKT1 B teamer in a mere two weeks in the sandlot tournament.


again I don't want to take anything away from Grr but I was answering to how would Grrr fare if he decided to log on ICCUP and play a few games,

even with modern BO I don't he would do well

of course he was immensely talented and with 2 weeks of practice he cold be good but with no practice I don't think he would do well

sorry if that was not clear great god of TL

once Koreans got mechanically correct Grrr fell

If Grrr came to ICCUP with today's build orders and his skills of 2000 he would struggle in D


What a load of bs.

Fyi; Grrrr... almost never ever practiced for any game. He'd rather play Tetris actually...

He actually started to lose because he didn't care about Sc anymore and playing 10 hours a day wasn't his thing.

Had he practiced 10 hours a day and joined Ideal space back then, he would have dominated Korea for a good extra year.

Also, all these players like Reach, Kingdom, Boxer etc... He was beating them up pretty bad online, while having half the apm they had.



well sure maybe had Grrr practiced and all he would be really strong but the question was if Grrr palyed with his skills of 2000, not had he practiced 10 hours a day, learned modern build orders etc,

I don't want to take anything from Grrr he was a superb player but if he came back today he would get crushed easily,

had he practiced in ideal space etc,etc,etc then I don't know, you can't compare Eras


Then what is the point of your post. That if someone doesn't play they are worse than current players? That is pretty fucking obvious to me.

Please argue less foolish points.



well the point of my post was answering someone who asked how good would Grrr be if he came to ICCUP with his skill of 2000


I called nonsense since someone said he would be B-

I agree it is a foolish point but thinking he wold come back with his skills from 2000 and be B- is nonsensical hence the point of my post :p
Writer
Antisocialmunky
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States5912 Posts
August 08 2010 17:22 GMT
#106
On August 09 2010 02:02 Waxangel wrote:
oh shit, is that former female progamer Lena in that pic? I forgot she existed -_-


I just looked up (P)LenA and I think I just had a small stroke form the profile pic.
[゚n゚] SSSSssssssSSsss ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Marine/Raven Guide:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=163605
swanized
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
Canada2480 Posts
August 08 2010 17:35 GMT
#107
On August 08 2010 19:25 Altair wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 08 2010 06:00 swanized wrote:
nonsense

Grrr would struggle in D+ possibly,


you know why Grrr fell? Grrr thought using hotkeys was a waste of time and hotkeys were not necessary for good plays

once Koreans got mechanically correct Grrr fell

If Grrr came to ICCUP with today's build orders and his skills of 2000 he would struggle in D


Is this your ICCUP account? http://www.iccup.com/starcraft/gamingprofile/swanized.html

I will restrain form further comments, i do not want to get banned. LOL



ok cool I am D/D+ and not very good at Starcraft

what was your point exactly?
Writer
Ricjames
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
Czech Republic1047 Posts
August 08 2010 17:40 GMT
#108
He was the best during his time, beat pretty much everyone. Then he retired and became a millionaire playing poker...sounds easy
Brood War is the best RTS that has ever been created.
JohannesH
Profile Joined September 2009
Finland1364 Posts
August 08 2010 17:49 GMT
#109
On August 09 2010 02:35 swanized wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 08 2010 19:25 Altair wrote:
On August 08 2010 06:00 swanized wrote:
nonsense

Grrr would struggle in D+ possibly,


you know why Grrr fell? Grrr thought using hotkeys was a waste of time and hotkeys were not necessary for good plays

once Koreans got mechanically correct Grrr fell

If Grrr came to ICCUP with today's build orders and his skills of 2000 he would struggle in D


Is this your ICCUP account? http://www.iccup.com/starcraft/gamingprofile/swanized.html

I will restrain form further comments, i do not want to get banned. LOL



ok cool I am D/D+ and not very good at Starcraft

what was your point exactly?

His point is probably that you don't know what you're talking about, Grrr wouldn't struggle vs a player of that level.
If you have to ask, you don't know.
Tossim111
Profile Joined October 2009
United States246 Posts
August 09 2010 01:26 GMT
#110
The difference of a player that was not good that came back from 2000 to play now and with grrrr coming from 2000 to play now is a HUGE difference, he had fundamentals down, he had game sense already, it's not like he is a bad player that is in the D-C ranks. Him doing old strats from his era, he would still do surprisingly ok vs players in those ranks, it's not like his strats are completely obsolete, 2 gate pvz is kind of bad, but he would still be able to use it against those players... simply because they're in the D-C ranks they have no experience or skill to play against it. He also follows up pretty well with FE and +1 speed lots. His strats weren't THAT shitty, he made most of the ORIGINAL fundamental builds and players just simply made them more efficient over the years.
Tossim111
Profile Joined October 2009
United States246 Posts
August 09 2010 01:27 GMT
#111
and i'm pretty damn sure grrr played after 2000
rel
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Guam3521 Posts
August 09 2010 01:31 GMT
#112
Grrrr.... is StarCraft.
BoxeR is Brood War.
I'll tank push my way into her heart. ☮♥&$!
EleanorRIgby
Profile Joined March 2008
Canada3923 Posts
August 09 2010 01:35 GMT
#113
On August 08 2010 21:13 Rekrul wrote:
btw, funny story

artosis had been playing sc2 beta hardcore for weeks on end, grrr had only a few games under his belt

grrr had a party at his house w/ tasteless and artosis and some peeps

grrr played a game of sc2 vs artosis and easily raped him

artosis not knowing grrr so well, instead of nerd raging (cuz he too scared to do it in that kinda situation especially cuz it's IRL) just quietly left the party w/out saying anything


lol thats pretty golden
savior did nothing wrong
aimaimaim
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Philippines2167 Posts
August 09 2010 02:23 GMT
#114
On August 08 2010 21:13 Rekrul wrote:
btw, funny story

artosis had been playing sc2 beta hardcore for weeks on end, grrr had only a few games under his belt

grrr had a party at his house w/ tasteless and artosis and some peeps

grrr played a game of sc2 vs artosis and easily raped him

artosis not knowing grrr so well, instead of nerd raging (cuz he too scared to do it in that kinda situation especially cuz it's IRL) just quietly left the party w/out saying anything


now this .. we need VODs man ..
Religion is a dying idea .. || 'E-sport' outside Korea are nerds who wants to feel like rockstars. || I'm not gonna fuck with trolls on General Forum ever again .. FUCK!
LegendaryZ
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1583 Posts
August 09 2010 02:28 GMT
#115
By today's standards, we would certainly not consider Grrr to be a top player, but in his time, he was pretty ridiculously dominant. Just because he wouldn't hold a candle to today's pro-gamers shouldn't really take anything away from him, though since it's not really a fair comparison by any means.

That would be like judging the '69 Pontiac GTO negatively because a modern day Maxima would whip it on the track and it would absolutely get destroyed by any modern day performance car...
wishbones
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
Canada2600 Posts
August 09 2010 02:31 GMT
#116
grrr was so good that people still made threads about him after being retired for more than a lifetime. :D
joined TL.net in 2006 (aka GMer) - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=41944#2
CaucasianAsian
Profile Blog Joined September 2005
Korea (South)11587 Posts
August 09 2010 02:46 GMT
#117
Legionaire didn't play as much as grr, nor was he as good, and he would have made it to A rank easily on ICCUP (he got to B+ with easy stats). Grrr who is a much superior player with much more talent would have the same type of results (having a sick record until A rank)
Calendar@ Fish Server: `iOps]..Stark
Astrapto
Profile Joined December 2010
United States69 Posts
February 06 2011 18:47 GMT
#118
So, to summarize from what others have said:
Grrr... was an incredibly talented foreigner who owned the world from '99 to '00 as random. He was a major innovator (especially Protoss builds), and crushed the Koreans without practicing. He was like the original progamer, before Boxer.
He won everything there was to be won (which was less back then), and became the closest thing to a foreigner bonjwa that ever was. He would've been better had he been inspired by 1) competition, and 2) money, which showed up later as the game became famous and his overthrowers became the new standard.
2000 Grrr owned the 2000 world ladder as random, but 2000 Grrr would do poorly on the 2011 ladder, because of the improving standards of the game. With practice, a 2011 Grrr could do well.

User was warned for this post
ALLEN
RoyaleBrainSlug
Profile Joined December 2010
United States295 Posts
February 06 2011 19:03 GMT
#119
I don't think summarizing what other people said is bump worthy, which is kind of a shame for the thread really...
Zileas is my Homeboy
MiniRoman
Profile Blog Joined September 2003
Canada3953 Posts
February 06 2011 19:04 GMT
#120
To all the players who think they know what it was like playing on PRE-LUNA maps. You don't. If you think you do here's a challenge:

Go play origianl LT, Jungle Story, Legacy of Char, Jim Raynor's Memory. All these old maps that used to be popular.

NOW: try to macro. Notice how your main has 7 min patches, expansion prolly 6 and not necessary with a second gas. You can't FE cause the map pathing is silly and all your build order timings don't line up.

Say grrrr somehow used "2000 BOs" (cause he's had them memorized this whole 11 years) he would look at his money and be like "holy fuck I have a lot of money" and then his build would change.

I wish I say this silly argument earlier. The new standardization of maps (for most part standard min patch relationship between mains and expands which are in 99% case more than the older maps) changed the flow of the game outside this guys time. Without realizing that, you can't even begin to make a legitmate comparison.
Nak Allstar.
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