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On April 25 2010 12:30 J1.au wrote:
Blizzard and KeSPA are both greedy companies. However if Blizzard stops BW tournaments I will never buy another of their games again.
EDIT: Also, stop hating on just KeSPA. Without them Korean BW would be nothing. They're the ones who bring stability to the scene and make it attractive to corporate sponsors.
Blizzard isn't stopping them. They just want fair compensation since Kespa makes huge profit off their work. Kespa is stingy so they refuse.
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8748 Posts
On April 25 2010 14:10 p4NDemik wrote:
Blizzard may have the intellectual rights to the game but KeSPA has the money and the government in Korea backing them. Ultimately those are the two most important things, and without them SC2 will be severely stunted without some kind of KeSPA/Blizzard agreement.
I understand the reasoning behind Blizzard's decision but ultimately they do need KeSPA if they're going to build a successful scene in Korea. This is a big blow to the scene developing in Korea, but nowhere near fatal. Even though the release of the WoL is growing nearer this game will still be in development for years, leaving plenty of time for renewed negotiations. Eventually Blizzard will have to play ball here, no matter how unfair that game will be in KeSPA's favor.
You don't think a Blizzard-friendly organization would emerge to fill KeSPA's role?
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On April 25 2010 14:44 PanzerDragoon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2010 12:30 J1.au wrote:
Blizzard and KeSPA are both greedy companies. However if Blizzard stops BW tournaments I will never buy another of their games again.
EDIT: Also, stop hating on just KeSPA. Without them Korean BW would be nothing. They're the ones who bring stability to the scene and make it attractive to corporate sponsors. Blizzard isn't stopping them. They just want fair compensation since Kespa makes huge profit off their work. Kespa is stingy so they refuse.
That's pure speculation, as in BS.
We don't know the terms of either camps.
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8748 Posts
On April 25 2010 14:39 Megalisk wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2010 12:54 SoLaR[i.C] wrote:
This is PERFECT for a fairly casual player such as myself who doesn't give two shits about the pro scene in Korea. Kespa acted unreasonably and Blizzard responded in the way they should have - by pulling out completely.
We'll end up with more English language tournaments and commentating. Sounds great to me. And substandard play...
 Give players a career for playing SC2 and they will give you quality play. There's nothing special about Korea there.
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On April 25 2010 14:46 Liquid`NonY wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2010 14:10 p4NDemik wrote:
Blizzard may have the intellectual rights to the game but KeSPA has the money and the government in Korea backing them. Ultimately those are the two most important things, and without them SC2 will be severely stunted without some kind of KeSPA/Blizzard agreement.
I understand the reasoning behind Blizzard's decision but ultimately they do need KeSPA if they're going to build a successful scene in Korea. This is a big blow to the scene developing in Korea, but nowhere near fatal. Even though the release of the WoL is growing nearer this game will still be in development for years, leaving plenty of time for renewed negotiations. Eventually Blizzard will have to play ball here, no matter how unfair that game will be in KeSPA's favor. You don't think a Blizzard-friendly organization would emerge to fill KeSPA's role?
Who's gonna pony up the money to sponsor all the proteams? Their lodging? Food? Equipment?
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United States2822 Posts
On April 25 2010 14:46 Liquid`NonY wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2010 14:10 p4NDemik wrote:
Blizzard may have the intellectual rights to the game but KeSPA has the money and the government in Korea backing them. Ultimately those are the two most important things, and without them SC2 will be severely stunted without some kind of KeSPA/Blizzard agreement.
I understand the reasoning behind Blizzard's decision but ultimately they do need KeSPA if they're going to build a successful scene in Korea. This is a big blow to the scene developing in Korea, but nowhere near fatal. Even though the release of the WoL is growing nearer this game will still be in development for years, leaving plenty of time for renewed negotiations. Eventually Blizzard will have to play ball here, no matter how unfair that game will be in KeSPA's favor. You don't think a Blizzard-friendly organization would emerge to fill KeSPA's role?
Exactly. Once a company realizes that there's money to be made in the hole that's left by KeSPA's absence in the SC2 scene, they'll jump on the opportunity. The money they gain from going into the industry is better than the no money they'd gain by not.
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United States2822 Posts
On April 25 2010 14:47 .risingdragoon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2010 14:46 Liquid`NonY wrote:On April 25 2010 14:10 p4NDemik wrote:
Blizzard may have the intellectual rights to the game but KeSPA has the money and the government in Korea backing them. Ultimately those are the two most important things, and without them SC2 will be severely stunted without some kind of KeSPA/Blizzard agreement.
I understand the reasoning behind Blizzard's decision but ultimately they do need KeSPA if they're going to build a successful scene in Korea. This is a big blow to the scene developing in Korea, but nowhere near fatal. Even though the release of the WoL is growing nearer this game will still be in development for years, leaving plenty of time for renewed negotiations. Eventually Blizzard will have to play ball here, no matter how unfair that game will be in KeSPA's favor. You don't think a Blizzard-friendly organization would emerge to fill KeSPA's role? Who's gonna pony up the money to sponsor all the proteams? Their lodging? Food? Equipment?
The teams pay for the players. The companies sponsor the proteams. KeSPA has nothing to do with the teams or the players' personal lives.
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On April 25 2010 14:48 scintilliaSD wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2010 14:47 .risingdragoon wrote:On April 25 2010 14:46 Liquid`NonY wrote:On April 25 2010 14:10 p4NDemik wrote:
Blizzard may have the intellectual rights to the game but KeSPA has the money and the government in Korea backing them. Ultimately those are the two most important things, and without them SC2 will be severely stunted without some kind of KeSPA/Blizzard agreement.
I understand the reasoning behind Blizzard's decision but ultimately they do need KeSPA if they're going to build a successful scene in Korea. This is a big blow to the scene developing in Korea, but nowhere near fatal. Even though the release of the WoL is growing nearer this game will still be in development for years, leaving plenty of time for renewed negotiations. Eventually Blizzard will have to play ball here, no matter how unfair that game will be in KeSPA's favor. You don't think a Blizzard-friendly organization would emerge to fill KeSPA's role? Who's gonna pony up the money to sponsor all the proteams? Their lodging? Food? Equipment? The teams pay for the players. The companies sponsor the proteams. KeSPA has nothing to do with the teams or the players' personal lives.
Kespa is these companies, pal. It's a board of reps from all these companies.
The only reason I see these big corps sponsoring esports is cus it's born and bred by koreans.
Sure there'll be a very minor contigent that'll go against the trend and work with Blizzard, in which case esports will roll back to the 1999 stone age.
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5003 Posts
Blizzard isn't stopping them. They just want fair compensation since Kespa makes huge profit off their work. Kespa is stingy so they refuse.
Blizzard has their fair compensation -- the Korean Starcraft scene made starcraft extremely popular and more people are buying the games (or would have bought the games, if it wasn't for iccup). In addition, Starcraft created huge interests for Starcraft 2, which Blizzard is already planning on milking it out as much as possible.
Blizzard deserves no compensation, for Starcraft OR Starcraft 2 -- it has already gotten them through all the free advertisement KeSPA did for their games. Even better -- KeSPA's success with E-Sports did a pretty damn good job boosting Blizzard's reputation in game making, something that isn't going to die anytime soon. They are getting everything already through KeSPA through advertisements. They simply need to deal with logistics better -- imagine if instead of battle.net they actually did something like iccup with antihack launchers. It would be even more successful.
But nope. Now that they have gotten the free advertisement and the reputation as the "good guys who make good games", now they're going to bite the hand that feeds them.
"Hey guys, I'm the creator of Basketball. Now that my game is popular I want you to pay me for broadcasting Basketball on TV. Oh, I'm also going to make the NCAA and NBA pay me for taking my game and making it a success and organizing nationwide tournaments and making it competitive"
Anyone who says Blizzard "deserves" anything from KeSPA is horribly mistaken. KeSPA deserves every cent they get.
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Wow, this is pretty informative stuff.
Thanks for putting it up Waxangel.
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On April 25 2010 14:47 Liquid`NonY wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2010 14:39 Megalisk wrote:On April 25 2010 12:54 SoLaR[i.C] wrote:
This is PERFECT for a fairly casual player such as myself who doesn't give two shits about the pro scene in Korea. Kespa acted unreasonably and Blizzard responded in the way they should have - by pulling out completely.
We'll end up with more English language tournaments and commentating. Sounds great to me. And substandard play... Give players a career for playing SC2 and they will give you quality play. There's nothing special about Korea there.
As in 14 hour a day slave condition training play?
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On April 25 2010 14:46 .risingdragoon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2010 14:44 PanzerDragoon wrote:On April 25 2010 12:30 J1.au wrote:
Blizzard and KeSPA are both greedy companies. However if Blizzard stops BW tournaments I will never buy another of their games again.
EDIT: Also, stop hating on just KeSPA. Without them Korean BW would be nothing. They're the ones who bring stability to the scene and make it attractive to corporate sponsors. Blizzard isn't stopping them. They just want fair compensation since Kespa makes huge profit off their work. Kespa is stingy so they refuse. That's pure speculation, as in BS. We don't know the terms of either camps.
Wasn't there a thread on this very issue a month or two ago? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=112686
IP is IP Blizzard has every right to do whatever the hell they want with SC2. From what I can tell it's just a bad business decision to not pay for right.(given that that's really the issue)
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On April 25 2010 14:47 Liquid`NonY wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2010 14:39 Megalisk wrote:On April 25 2010 12:54 SoLaR[i.C] wrote:
This is PERFECT for a fairly casual player such as myself who doesn't give two shits about the pro scene in Korea. Kespa acted unreasonably and Blizzard responded in the way they should have - by pulling out completely.
We'll end up with more English language tournaments and commentating. Sounds great to me. And substandard play... Give players a career for playing SC2 and they will give you quality play. There's nothing special about Korea there.
lol no, it's public interest that made korea special
interest became money, sponsorship, became reputation, became professional, became esports
without interest you got nothing, just a few lans and people playing as much as they can leisurely
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5003 Posts
Exactly. Once a company realizes that there's money to be made in the hole that's left by KeSPA's absence in the SC2 scene, they'll jump on the opportunity. The money they gain from going into the industry is better than the no money they'd gain by not.
Wrong. There's a huge amount of risk involved. Money will be made on SC2 only if it proves to be as "progamer"/player friendly as SC was. Or else everything is just going to be extremely fragile -- in fact, if KeSPA is "against" SC2, a few comments by top progamers trashing SC2 will be enough to shut down the scene for a long, long time in Korea.
There is no guarantee that another fledgling company could pull off anything and make it solvent. That's likely why Blizzard spent so much effort trying to negotiate with KeSPA, since they know that to make SC2 anywhere close to competitive as SC is, they'll need a company that has proven themselves. Some other company? Good luck, KeSPA has a pretty nice monopoly, much like any other sports leagues out there. If anything, it wouldn't be a fledgling company, but Blizzard itself making a company (or fully supporting another company) to try and make it happen.
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United States2822 Posts
On April 25 2010 14:50 .risingdragoon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2010 14:48 scintilliaSD wrote:On April 25 2010 14:47 .risingdragoon wrote:On April 25 2010 14:46 Liquid`NonY wrote:On April 25 2010 14:10 p4NDemik wrote:
Blizzard may have the intellectual rights to the game but KeSPA has the money and the government in Korea backing them. Ultimately those are the two most important things, and without them SC2 will be severely stunted without some kind of KeSPA/Blizzard agreement.
I understand the reasoning behind Blizzard's decision but ultimately they do need KeSPA if they're going to build a successful scene in Korea. This is a big blow to the scene developing in Korea, but nowhere near fatal. Even though the release of the WoL is growing nearer this game will still be in development for years, leaving plenty of time for renewed negotiations. Eventually Blizzard will have to play ball here, no matter how unfair that game will be in KeSPA's favor. You don't think a Blizzard-friendly organization would emerge to fill KeSPA's role? Who's gonna pony up the money to sponsor all the proteams? Their lodging? Food? Equipment? The teams pay for the players. The companies sponsor the proteams. KeSPA has nothing to do with the teams or the players' personal lives. Kespa is these companies, pal. It's a board of reps from all these companies. The only reason I see these big corps sponsoring esports is cus it's born and bred by koreans. Sure there'll be a very minor contigent that'll go against the trend and work with Blizzard, in which case esports will roll back to the 1999 stone age.
The same 1999 Stone Age that has gotten us thousands of dollars worth of tournaments for a game that hasn't even been released yet? I wanna know where you lived in 1999.
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On April 25 2010 14:58 scintilliaSD wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2010 14:50 .risingdragoon wrote:On April 25 2010 14:48 scintilliaSD wrote:On April 25 2010 14:47 .risingdragoon wrote:On April 25 2010 14:46 Liquid`NonY wrote:On April 25 2010 14:10 p4NDemik wrote:
Blizzard may have the intellectual rights to the game but KeSPA has the money and the government in Korea backing them. Ultimately those are the two most important things, and without them SC2 will be severely stunted without some kind of KeSPA/Blizzard agreement.
I understand the reasoning behind Blizzard's decision but ultimately they do need KeSPA if they're going to build a successful scene in Korea. This is a big blow to the scene developing in Korea, but nowhere near fatal. Even though the release of the WoL is growing nearer this game will still be in development for years, leaving plenty of time for renewed negotiations. Eventually Blizzard will have to play ball here, no matter how unfair that game will be in KeSPA's favor. You don't think a Blizzard-friendly organization would emerge to fill KeSPA's role? Who's gonna pony up the money to sponsor all the proteams? Their lodging? Food? Equipment? The teams pay for the players. The companies sponsor the proteams. KeSPA has nothing to do with the teams or the players' personal lives. Kespa is these companies, pal. It's a board of reps from all these companies. The only reason I see these big corps sponsoring esports is cus it's born and bred by koreans. Sure there'll be a very minor contigent that'll go against the trend and work with Blizzard, in which case esports will roll back to the 1999 stone age. The same 1999 Stone Age that has gotten us thousands of dollars worth of tournaments for a game that hasn't even been released yet? I wanna know where you lived in 1999.
you're confused xO
it's not gonna start up again from 1999. it'll get busted back to 99 and stay there.
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United States2822 Posts
On April 25 2010 14:59 .risingdragoon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2010 14:58 scintilliaSD wrote:On April 25 2010 14:50 .risingdragoon wrote:On April 25 2010 14:48 scintilliaSD wrote:On April 25 2010 14:47 .risingdragoon wrote:On April 25 2010 14:46 Liquid`NonY wrote:On April 25 2010 14:10 p4NDemik wrote:
Blizzard may have the intellectual rights to the game but KeSPA has the money and the government in Korea backing them. Ultimately those are the two most important things, and without them SC2 will be severely stunted without some kind of KeSPA/Blizzard agreement.
I understand the reasoning behind Blizzard's decision but ultimately they do need KeSPA if they're going to build a successful scene in Korea. This is a big blow to the scene developing in Korea, but nowhere near fatal. Even though the release of the WoL is growing nearer this game will still be in development for years, leaving plenty of time for renewed negotiations. Eventually Blizzard will have to play ball here, no matter how unfair that game will be in KeSPA's favor. You don't think a Blizzard-friendly organization would emerge to fill KeSPA's role? Who's gonna pony up the money to sponsor all the proteams? Their lodging? Food? Equipment? The teams pay for the players. The companies sponsor the proteams. KeSPA has nothing to do with the teams or the players' personal lives. Kespa is these companies, pal. It's a board of reps from all these companies. The only reason I see these big corps sponsoring esports is cus it's born and bred by koreans. Sure there'll be a very minor contigent that'll go against the trend and work with Blizzard, in which case esports will roll back to the 1999 stone age. The same 1999 Stone Age that has gotten us thousands of dollars worth of tournaments for a game that hasn't even been released yet? I wanna know where you lived in 1999. you're confused xO it's not gonna start up again from 1999. it'll get busted back to 99 and stay there.
KeSPA has nothing to do with the current eSports success of SC2. Them continuing to have nothing to do with it will affect absolutely no one but the Koreans. The Korean Starcraft scene has done what it needed to do - show the eSports viability of the Starcraft franchise. It's Blizzard's job to continue the viability into Starcraft 2 and judging by the tournaments that have come up, it doesn't need Korea or KeSPA to do that.
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On April 25 2010 14:58 scintilliaSD wrote:
The same 1999 Stone Age that has gotten us thousands of dollars worth of tournaments for a game that hasn't even been released yet? I wanna know where you lived in 1999.
How much of that money and how many of those tourneys have been popping out due to speculation of a possible progaming career?
And Korea is still the only country with the infrastructure to handle that, albeit China, and to a (very) lesser extent, countries like Germany are developing one.
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yeah but who outside of korea's gonna take this thing seriously? you think teens in us or europe will show up in droves to support esports?
creating and promoting the "idea of esports" is what kespa, and pre-kespa, whatever you wanna call it, have done. that's the incredible thing. first and foremost. infrastructure will happen with time as long as there's interest.
which big foreign companies will sponsor so many leagues each year? why korea? china's got a huge growing esports scene, and the market's way bigger there. but china's proscene's still at least 5 years behind in all aspects, organization, players, recognition, etc.etc. it won't make it in time for sc2.
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On April 25 2010 14:52 Milkis wrote:Show nested quote +Blizzard isn't stopping them. They just want fair compensation since Kespa makes huge profit off their work. Kespa is stingy so they refuse. Blizzard has their fair compensation -- the Korean Starcraft scene made starcraft extremely popular and more people are buying the games (or would have bought the games, if it wasn't for iccup). In addition, Starcraft created huge interests for Starcraft 2, which Blizzard is already planning on milking it out as much as possible. Blizzard deserves no compensation, for Starcraft OR Starcraft 2 -- it has already gotten them through all the free advertisement KeSPA did for their games. Even better -- KeSPA's success with E-Sports did a pretty damn good job boosting Blizzard's reputation in game making, something that isn't going to die anytime soon. They are getting everything already through KeSPA through advertisements. They simply need to deal with logistics better -- imagine if instead of battle.net they actually did something like iccup with antihack launchers. It would be even more successful. But nope. Now that they have gotten the free advertisement and the reputation as the "good guys who make good games", now they're going to bite the hand that feeds them. "Hey guys, I'm the creator of Basketball. Now that my game is popular I want you to pay me for broadcasting Basketball on TV. Oh, I'm also going to make the NCAA and NBA pay me for taking my game and making it a success and organizing nationwide tournaments and making it competitive" Anyone who says Blizzard "deserves" anything from KeSPA is horribly mistaken. KeSPA deserves every cent they get.
Pretty much everything I would've wanted to say. Props to you sir. The exact stance I'm taking with my somewhat limited knowledge of the exact situation going on between Blizzard and KeSPA.
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EPT
