EPTBlizzard to cease negotiations with KeSPA - Page 7
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Xals
United States6 Posts
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Milkis
5003 Posts
Businesses don't do what they do for some convoluted sense of national pride. They do what they do for money. If Samsung sees money in the foreign eSports scene over the Korean eSports scene, why would they not put money into it? Why did Coca-Cola and Pringles, two American companies, invest money into a (then almost non-existent) Starcraft tournament in Korea? They saw potential for advertising their product so they did it. Of course they do. If Businesses go against national pride, they're going to lose support in that nation. In most cases, the businesses are korean businesses, and make most of their money in Korea. Of course they have to do things for some "convoluted sense" of national pride, and we koreans are pretty much the most hotheaded group of people on earth, we will boycott anything and everything whenever we can. Why did CocaCola and Pringles support Korea? Advertisement. Simple as that. Why do companies "invest" in anything? They're not investing, they're advertising. | ||
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moopie
12605 Posts
On April 25 2010 15:09 zgl wrote: + Show Spoiler + On April 25 2010 14:52 Milkis wrote: Blizzard has their fair compensation -- the Korean Starcraft scene made starcraft extremely popular and more people are buying the games (or would have bought the games, if it wasn't for iccup). In addition, Starcraft created huge interests for Starcraft 2, which Blizzard is already planning on milking it out as much as possible. Blizzard deserves no compensation, for Starcraft OR Starcraft 2 -- it has already gotten them through all the free advertisement KeSPA did for their games. Even better -- KeSPA's success with E-Sports did a pretty damn good job boosting Blizzard's reputation in game making, something that isn't going to die anytime soon. They are getting everything already through KeSPA through advertisements. They simply need to deal with logistics better -- imagine if instead of battle.net they actually did something like iccup with antihack launchers. It would be even more successful. But nope. Now that they have gotten the free advertisement and the reputation as the "good guys who make good games", now they're going to bite the hand that feeds them. "Hey guys, I'm the creator of Basketball. Now that my game is popular I want you to pay me for broadcasting Basketball on TV. Oh, I'm also going to make the NCAA and NBA pay me for taking my game and making it a success and organizing nationwide tournaments and making it competitive" Anyone who says Blizzard "deserves" anything from KeSPA is horribly mistaken. KeSPA deserves every cent they get. 1. Intellectual property is intellectual property. The license terms have to be respected. If Kespa wants to use Blizzard's IP as the basis for their league, then it is up to them to reach an agreement with Blizzard. 2. Blizzard's games speak for themselves. Very few people (especially outside of Korea) cared about SC. It has been about WoW for the last 4 years, and Kespa has nothing to do with its success. It is debatable how much of an effect the current Korean pro SC scene will have on Blizzard's SC2 sales and profits. How many casual gamers (i.e. the majority of the buyers of any game) care about or are even aware of the Korean pro SC scene? I'd be interested in new leagues where the teams and players enjoy more independence from the organizing committee. But we're talking about how SC2 will fare IN Korea. For that, yes, a compromise has to happen between Blizzard and KeSPA. KeSPA needs to use Blizzard's product, Blizzard needs KeSPA which controls the turf. Without KeSPA, Blizzard can still get small stuff in Korea (like GOM), but with little to no organized teams and very few sponsors. This applies to both of the points you countered in your post, as we're not saying SC2 will fail worldwide, but it isn't likely to develop into a popular e-sport (and get millions of additional fans and sales). I have had my dislikes of KeSPA and the way they have handled certain things over the years, but you have to face the fact that its not a simple matter to simply side-step them. On April 25 2010 15:23 p4NDemik wrote: Sure there will be. Most here foster hope that a competitive SC2 scene will equal if not surpass BW's success in Korea and I'm saying the most likely avenue to get to that point is through KeSPA. Could a non-KeSPA backed SC2 scene reach that point? I'm not going to absolutely 100% rule it out, but I don't believe it's what we as fans should be crossing our fingers for. I don't like KeSPA any more than most other people here, just seems like they could most likely be a necessary evil for the growth of a thriving SC2 scene. My thoughts exactly. | ||
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Zona
40426 Posts
As to government influence, major companies all over the world often influence the local country's government, so it wouldn't be surprised. Actually, although I'm by no means an expert on the subject, from what I know there is significant cooperation between the South Korean government and the large "Chaebols" due to the history of South Korea's development, and even in recent times, there have been allegations of scandals (*). For a site that is really all about the Korean pro-gaming scene, the lack of clarity as to who KeSPA represents and what KeSPA does is surprising. I wish I knew Korean so I could do some more digging around this subject to understand the politics and mechanisms around it. (*) Here's an example of an alleged scandal, corruption charges against an aide to the president for receiving money from the SK group: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,552164,00.html | ||
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kheldorin
Singapore539 Posts
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zgl
United States1055 Posts
On April 25 2010 15:20 Milkis wrote: And that'll just mean Kespa doesnt pick up SC2, and will continue simply with SC1. This means simply just means that SC2 wont get as big as SC1, which is no big deal, in the long run. But remember what blizzard is trying to do -- they want SC2 to replace SC1. This pretty much means Blizzard has failed to accomplish what they wanted to do. No matter how good SC2 is, this is a negative signal on the company, and simply states that SC1's success wasn't replicated. To us who keep up with this stuff, we know better, but to the masses, this means a lot. "Why is there a SC1 proscene but not a SC2 proscene?" That question will speak for itself. Blizzard NEEDS KeSPA (to make SC2 successful) and KeSPA NEEDS Blizzard. In fact, KeSPA needs blizzard more than blizzard needs KeSPA, and simply KeSPA rejecting Blizzard's terms tells you miles about how likely the terms offered to KeSPA was unreasonable. Enforcing IP on this matter will lead to an inefficient outcome -- Blizzard loses advertising and reputation, KeSPA will just milk SC1 until it dies. Kespa won't last very long sticking with SC1 (and why should they be allowed to do it if they don't reach an agreement with Blizzard)? SC2 is an opportunity for new competitive leagues to replace the old and stale. Many of them will fail, but if nothing new is tried, we'd all be the worse for it. Kespa is not known for being reasonable, so them rejecting Blizzard's terms does not automatically mean those terms were unreasonable. | ||
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.risingdragoon
United States3021 Posts
On April 25 2010 15:21 scintilliaSD wrote: Businesses don't do what they do for some convoluted sense of national pride. They do what they do for money. If Samsung sees money in the foreign eSports scene over the Korean eSports scene, why would they not put money into it? Why did Coca-Cola and Pringles, two American companies, invest money into a (then almost non-existent) Starcraft tournament in Korea? They saw potential for advertising their product so they did it. international scene is about 10 years behind china 5 years behind korea. how can you still be arguing? interest, pal. that's the bottomline. korea shows interest in esports. if the leader in something colapses, the powers that be will only go where there's an actual vacuum - korea. but the government itself is standing with these big corps, who are trying to protect their investment. the result is if blizz goes it alone it'll be a blimp on the radar. there'll be fewer teams, no fancy uniform, no fancy stage, lavish setup - the packaging will be downgraded to bulk and interest will go down dramatically. you'd be a fool to think most people aren't there for the fancy packaging. the hardcore, well, we got those everywhere. they're too damn small and spread out. | ||
520
United States2822 Posts
I'm not too interested with what the Koreans do with Starcraft 2 anyway with a burgeoning foreign scene. | ||
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
(well they have other games but SC is by far the biggest i'd imagine). | ||
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Milkis
5003 Posts
Kespa is not known for being reasonable, so them rejecting Blizzard's terms does not automatically mean those terms were unreasonable. What bargaining power does Kespa really think they have against the game creators? How can they be so fucking dense... they will cease to be if they don't work with Blizzard. (well they have other games but SC is by far the biggest i'd imagine). I never said automatically, I said it was quite likely they were unreasonable. Consider it this way, why else would KeSPA reject it? They know that they need Blizzard to survive. Why would they reject Blizzard, which without their support, their league will eventually die? There's a difference between being unreasonable and suicide. | ||
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Railz
United States1449 Posts
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blazinggpassion
United States27 Posts
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.risingdragoon
United States3021 Posts
kespa has invested in esports, blizzard has not. and if esports takes it up the ass...you know the rest. | ||
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snotboogie
Australia3550 Posts
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.risingdragoon
United States3021 Posts
On April 25 2010 15:43 snotboogie wrote: KeSPA is a cancer. This is the big chance to cut that cancer out. lol in the meantime, there's still people not reading, and not helping... | ||
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SturmAddict
Malaysia176 Posts
Lets just replace the word "kespa" with "korea". The reason we get daily broadcasted high quality and never boring games is because of korea. Without korea, starcraft would never be as credited as today. Instead of "finding" a new partner, the should focus on actually helping the industry in korea. If, back then at day 1, Blizzard were to actually help the industry they would actually be swimming in royalty by now. But no. almost 99.9% of the huge success of SC as an e-sports, is no doubt because of korea. | ||
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PanzerDragoon
United States822 Posts
On April 25 2010 14:52 Milkis wrote: Blizzard has their fair compensation -- the Korean Starcraft scene made starcraft extremely popular and more people are buying the games (or would have bought the games, if it wasn't for iccup). In addition, Starcraft created huge interests for Starcraft 2, which Blizzard is already planning on milking it out as much as possible. Blizzard deserves no compensation, for Starcraft OR Starcraft 2 -- it has already gotten them through all the free advertisement KeSPA did for their games. Even better -- KeSPA's success with E-Sports did a pretty damn good job boosting Blizzard's reputation in game making, something that isn't going to die anytime soon. They are getting everything already through KeSPA through advertisements. They simply need to deal with logistics better -- imagine if instead of battle.net they actually did something like iccup with antihack launchers. It would be even more successful. But nope. Now that they have gotten the free advertisement and the reputation as the "good guys who make good games", now they're going to bite the hand that feeds them. "Hey guys, I'm the creator of Basketball. Now that my game is popular I want you to pay me for broadcasting Basketball on TV. Oh, I'm also going to make the NCAA and NBA pay me for taking my game and making it a success and organizing nationwide tournaments and making it competitive" Anyone who says Blizzard "deserves" anything from KeSPA is horribly mistaken. KeSPA deserves every cent they get. Blizzard deserves no compensation from a company making profits off their IP that Blizzard spent millions creating. Right. Try arguing that with any copyright lawyer. | ||
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PanzerDragoon
United States822 Posts
On April 25 2010 15:32 On_Slaught wrote: What bargaining power does Kespa really think they have against the game creators? How can they be so fucking dense... they will cease to be if they don't work with Blizzard. (well they have other games but SC is by far the biggest i'd imagine). Influencing the ratings board to give SCII a nonsense adults only rating. | ||
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
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Zuchinni_one
United States35 Posts
My understanding is that Kespa blocked all its players from continuing to compete in the GOMtv tournaments that were sponsored by Blizzard. I got that from several posts including the following from 'Go0g3n' + Show Spoiler + KeSPA is a ruling agency (body) it doesn't pay anything to anybody. It's run by representative of Pro Teams and one each from OGN and MBC channels. They are the ones who will have to pay royalties for every single commercial broadcast involving StarCraft II, let alone all the sub-media that goes with it. In US Blizzard would be entitled to a huge amount of royalties payments, in Korea it's enough to own a legal copy of the game to broadcast. Blizzard already tried to deal with relevant Korean authorities, but they were sent to "deal with KeSPA". They also tried to deal with MBC/OGN separately, failed there as well. But, and it's a big but, they can't broadcast games played over the web, i.e. on Battle.net, as it requires a completely different international license, which they won't get. Since there's no Lan - no broadcasts for now. KeSPA answered by killing GOM. Blizzard was heavily sponsoring it, as it was getting more and more popular, probably aiming to build a platform for future SC2 broadcasts, leagues etc, they were shut down by decision of the majority KeSPA teams to not participate in GOM. As said by artosis in a recent interview - it's a dead end with a lot of money at stake. I covered all this in three KeSPA/Blizzard articles on GG.net Another thing that's important is that Blizzard did absolutely nothing for StarCraft in terms of it's promotion and huge Korean and e-Sports success. They've even stopped supporting it after WC3 came out. It was KeSPA (at the time KPGA) who built the billion dollar industry of Korean StarCraft gaming and broadcasting. On the other hand you have to realize that StarCraft broadcast is immensely profitable in Korea, be it on OGN, MBC, GOM, whatever. It costs next to nothing to create a 2+ hour broadcast that beats everything in 18-34 ratings - the most valued by advertisers. The costs are so low they can be only compared with a cheap-ass 30min/week game show, rather than 15hr/week of StarCraft broadcasts. If Kespa is supposed to be all about Korean e-sports don't you think they should SUPPORT more e-sports and more tournaments? I threw this poll question into a new thread. Click HERE to participate Poll Question: Do you agree with Kespa's decision to prevent Blizzard from continuing to sponsor professional Starcraft tournaments. (This was done by not allowing any Korean progamer to be a member of a Kespa team or participate in Kespa sponsored tournaments if they also competed in the Blizzard tournaments) | ||
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