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On April 13 2010 00:44 BluzMan wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2010 22:51 Captain Peabody wrote:Heh. Luxury: the Pete Rose of eSports.
There seems to be a lot of overreaction here... Remember that though a ton of names appeared on the list, there are still a lot of very high level progamers (Flash, Baby, Zero, Light, etc.) that have yet to be implicated. This isn't going to kill eSports, it'll just be like the doping scandal in baseball. It will suck, but people will move on. Baseball is a LOT more established in America than Starcraft in Korea. At the time of the doping scandal, we'd already been playing baseball for like a hundred years, with plenty of big names and famous guys well in the past. There was never a chance that everyone would simply stop playing Baseball. With Starcraft, we've had like ten years of pro-gaming, and the game's still not nearly as accepted as it could be in Korean society; this, especially with the involvement of such big-name players, could easily destroy all the respect and prestige Starcraft has gained over the last ten years. Plus, we've got Starcraft 2 coming out, with a big pressure to switch games and and abandon Broodwar. You really can't compare the two situations. (sigh)  Am I the only one who thinks that such a scandal could improve the acceptance of progaming instead of setting it on the path to oblivion? This will get to news and will most likely acknowledge people who previously had no idea that progaming is actually a big business. For the average office rat this is a sign that things are serious and progaming is a large established market. I'm leaning towards the thought that progaming as a whole will benefit from the whole story. As for KeSPA and the whole thing: they are the ones who benefit from rigged matches most. TV ratings depend on drama and drama depends on unexpectable results. Your average subscriber doesn't want a single big player to demolish everyone time and time again, no, he wants big names to drop and the underdogs winning time from time. Rigged matches provide that. I won't be surprised if the right people in the mentioned teams and in KeSPA itself were more than well-informed.
Yes you are. SC pro gaming = nerds playing video games for money. SC pro gaming = nerds cheating at video games for money.
People who had mild interest will lose it. Its hard enough to accept watching a teenage nerd playing a video game. To now think of them as cheating snot nose teenage punks... No more interest.
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lol @ people who assume they know someone through a TV image, and how they play SC. HAHAHAHAH I guess we know everyone pending how often they show up on the television or in the press. I guess the other 20 hours of their life off the cameras is easily definable by facial expressions and tone of voice!
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On April 13 2010 00:44 BluzMan wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2010 22:51 Captain Peabody wrote:Heh. Luxury: the Pete Rose of eSports.
There seems to be a lot of overreaction here... Remember that though a ton of names appeared on the list, there are still a lot of very high level progamers (Flash, Baby, Zero, Light, etc.) that have yet to be implicated. This isn't going to kill eSports, it'll just be like the doping scandal in baseball. It will suck, but people will move on. Baseball is a LOT more established in America than Starcraft in Korea. At the time of the doping scandal, we'd already been playing baseball for like a hundred years, with plenty of big names and famous guys well in the past. There was never a chance that everyone would simply stop playing Baseball. With Starcraft, we've had like ten years of pro-gaming, and the game's still not nearly as accepted as it could be in Korean society; this, especially with the involvement of such big-name players, could easily destroy all the respect and prestige Starcraft has gained over the last ten years. Plus, we've got Starcraft 2 coming out, with a big pressure to switch games and and abandon Broodwar. You really can't compare the two situations. (sigh) Am I the only one who thinks that such a scandal could improve the acceptance of progaming instead of setting it on the path to oblivion? This will get to news and will most likely acknowledge people who previously had no idea that progaming is actually a big business. For the average office rat this is a sign that things are serious and progaming is a large established market. I'm leaning towards the thought that progaming as a whole will benefit from the whole story. As for KeSPA and the whole thing: they are the ones who benefit from rigged matches most. TV ratings depend on drama and drama depends on unexpectable results. Your average subscriber doesn't want a single big player to demolish everyone time and time again, no, he wants big names to drop and the underdogs winning time from time. Rigged matches provide that. I won't be surprised if the right people in the mentioned teams and in KeSPA itself were more than well-informed.
You would be insane to think that a gambling and game fixing scandal would help a sport appear more legitimate in the public eye...
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Bright side... this will probably force idra back to the united states and he can put 12 hr a day work schedule to something more beneficial to him.
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[QUOTE]On April 13 2010 00:42 Neobick wrote:
[QUOTE]On April 13 2010 00:27 Foucault wrote:
[QUOTE]On April 13 2010 00:18 Neobick wrote:
Why dont just play 3 years as a progamer and use the money you earn to study? Why do you need to be so fucking greedy and short-termish?[/QUOTE]
Yeah because we know that every progamer makes millions playing Starcraft.
Why oh why won't you practice 10 hours a day for 3 years and most likely don't make any real bank.
Progamers don't make millions, in fact far from it. Only the top ones get paid like 200k/year and thats miserable out of all celebrities and sportsmen. They take almost entire career to get even US$1M considering teams only upgrade their contracts when they are in prime. The medium and low level players dont even get shit. Its still a small sport and small market with free viewers, don't expect such salary like nba.
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On April 13 2010 00:44 BluzMan wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2010 22:51 Captain Peabody wrote:Heh. Luxury: the Pete Rose of eSports.
There seems to be a lot of overreaction here... Remember that though a ton of names appeared on the list, there are still a lot of very high level progamers (Flash, Baby, Zero, Light, etc.) that have yet to be implicated. This isn't going to kill eSports, it'll just be like the doping scandal in baseball. It will suck, but people will move on. Baseball is a LOT more established in America than Starcraft in Korea. At the time of the doping scandal, we'd already been playing baseball for like a hundred years, with plenty of big names and famous guys well in the past. There was never a chance that everyone would simply stop playing Baseball. With Starcraft, we've had like ten years of pro-gaming, and the game's still not nearly as accepted as it could be in Korean society; this, especially with the involvement of such big-name players, could easily destroy all the respect and prestige Starcraft has gained over the last ten years. Plus, we've got Starcraft 2 coming out, with a big pressure to switch games and and abandon Broodwar. You really can't compare the two situations. (sigh) Am I the only one who thinks that such a scandal could improve the acceptance of progaming instead of setting it on the path to oblivion? This will get to news and will most likely acknowledge people who previously had no idea that progaming is actually a big business. For the average office rat this is a sign that things are serious and progaming is a large established market. I'm leaning towards the thought that progaming as a whole will benefit from the whole story.
Yeah, the progaming scene will get headlights and be introduced to loads of people for the first time as a corrupt industry full of gamers who throw games for money. That'll be sure to attract loads of new people...
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Well, this certainly made me a lot less interested in Korean SC. I guess it's foreigner SC/SC2 for me, now, though I have no doubt it'll be tainted at some point in the future as well. It does create an interesting dilemma for e-sports in general, where tourney money is low enough that players can be easily tempted into illegal gambling, where the profit margin is potentially so much higher.
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On April 13 2010 00:52 PanzerDragoon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2010 00:44 BluzMan wrote:On April 12 2010 22:51 Captain Peabody wrote:Heh. Luxury: the Pete Rose of eSports.
There seems to be a lot of overreaction here... Remember that though a ton of names appeared on the list, there are still a lot of very high level progamers (Flash, Baby, Zero, Light, etc.) that have yet to be implicated. This isn't going to kill eSports, it'll just be like the doping scandal in baseball. It will suck, but people will move on. Baseball is a LOT more established in America than Starcraft in Korea. At the time of the doping scandal, we'd already been playing baseball for like a hundred years, with plenty of big names and famous guys well in the past. There was never a chance that everyone would simply stop playing Baseball. With Starcraft, we've had like ten years of pro-gaming, and the game's still not nearly as accepted as it could be in Korean society; this, especially with the involvement of such big-name players, could easily destroy all the respect and prestige Starcraft has gained over the last ten years. Plus, we've got Starcraft 2 coming out, with a big pressure to switch games and and abandon Broodwar. You really can't compare the two situations. (sigh) Am I the only one who thinks that such a scandal could improve the acceptance of progaming instead of setting it on the path to oblivion? This will get to news and will most likely acknowledge people who previously had no idea that progaming is actually a big business. For the average office rat this is a sign that things are serious and progaming is a large established market. I'm leaning towards the thought that progaming as a whole will benefit from the whole story. As for KeSPA and the whole thing: they are the ones who benefit from rigged matches most. TV ratings depend on drama and drama depends on unexpectable results. Your average subscriber doesn't want a single big player to demolish everyone time and time again, no, he wants big names to drop and the underdogs winning time from time. Rigged matches provide that. I won't be surprised if the right people in the mentioned teams and in KeSPA itself were more than well-informed. You would be insane to think that a gambling and game fixing scandal would help a sport appear more legitimate in the public eye...
Definitely.... just look at boxing, how many times you see the fighter suddenly giving up, or being accidentally knocked out for no reason while he was dominating. Coze all the money involve in the betting system. This is serious shit, starcraft won't recover and this is red carpet for SC2.
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On April 13 2010 00:57 Azarkon wrote:
Well, this certainly made me a lot less interested in Korean SC. I guess it's foreigner SC/SC2 for me, now, though I have no doubt it'll be tainted at some point in the future as well. It does create an interesting dilemma for e-sports in general, where tourney money is low enough that players can be easily tempted into illegal gambling, where the profit margin is potentially so much higher.
Non-Koreans are also notorious for cheating. Every event has had rampant cheating. This will not end.
Cheaters are not hurt in any long term fashion. Look at everyones acceptance of this Testie guy. I can tell you back in the day this guy would even cheat and maphack in fun custom games. Cheating was so ingrained in his soul.
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Depending on how deep this goes, I can't see myself caring nearly as much about Pro Brood War at this point. How would I ever get excited when I'm just wondering if the match was rigged or not?
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On April 13 2010 01:03 Maynard wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2010 00:57 Azarkon wrote:
Well, this certainly made me a lot less interested in Korean SC. I guess it's foreigner SC/SC2 for me, now, though I have no doubt it'll be tainted at some point in the future as well. It does create an interesting dilemma for e-sports in general, where tourney money is low enough that players can be easily tempted into illegal gambling, where the profit margin is potentially so much higher. Non-Koreans are also notorious for cheating. Every event has had rampant cheating. This will not end. Cheaters are not hurt in any long term fashion. Look at everyones acceptance of this Testie guy. I can tell you back in the day this guy would even cheat and maphack in fun custom games. Cheating was so ingrained in his soul.
That reminds me of that really crappy Azerbijani player that race switched Jaedong at WCG and lost to a all-in zerglin rush.
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On April 13 2010 01:03 Maynard wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2010 00:57 Azarkon wrote:
Well, this certainly made me a lot less interested in Korean SC. I guess it's foreigner SC/SC2 for me, now, though I have no doubt it'll be tainted at some point in the future as well. It does create an interesting dilemma for e-sports in general, where tourney money is low enough that players can be easily tempted into illegal gambling, where the profit margin is potentially so much higher. Non-Koreans are also notorious for cheating. Every event has had rampant cheating. This will not end. Cheaters are not hurt in any long term fashion. Look at everyones acceptance of this Testie guy. I can tell you back in the day this guy would even cheat and maphack in fun custom games. Cheating was so ingrained in his soul.
The chances of there being cheating in small tournaments are probably a lot lower.
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On April 13 2010 01:03 Maynard wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2010 00:57 Azarkon wrote:
Well, this certainly made me a lot less interested in Korean SC. I guess it's foreigner SC/SC2 for me, now, though I have no doubt it'll be tainted at some point in the future as well. It does create an interesting dilemma for e-sports in general, where tourney money is low enough that players can be easily tempted into illegal gambling, where the profit margin is potentially so much higher. Non-Koreans are also notorious for cheating. Every event has had rampant cheating. This will not end. Cheaters are not hurt in any long term fashion. Look at everyones acceptance of this Testie guy. I can tell you back in the day this guy would even cheat and maphack in fun custom games. Cheating was so ingrained in his soul.
Except no one is going to bribe players in Zotac Cup or and shit, because the money isn't there to make. Yeah you may have maphacking, but that can be stopped.
Besides more fair free agency, contract, and a union, there just isn't going to be a lot that can stop this in big money Starcraft =[
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On April 13 2010 01:07 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2010 01:03 Maynard wrote:On April 13 2010 00:57 Azarkon wrote:
Well, this certainly made me a lot less interested in Korean SC. I guess it's foreigner SC/SC2 for me, now, though I have no doubt it'll be tainted at some point in the future as well. It does create an interesting dilemma for e-sports in general, where tourney money is low enough that players can be easily tempted into illegal gambling, where the profit margin is potentially so much higher. Non-Koreans are also notorious for cheating. Every event has had rampant cheating. This will not end. Cheaters are not hurt in any long term fashion. Look at everyones acceptance of this Testie guy. I can tell you back in the day this guy would even cheat and maphack in fun custom games. Cheating was so ingrained in his soul. The chances of there being cheating in small tournaments are probably a lot lower.
You'd be surprised at the people i know with close to 99.999% certainty cheated. You'd be pretty shocked. I won't say shit tho so don't ask.
Lets just say that i wouldn't really trust any gaming tournament.
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On April 13 2010 00:44 BluzMan wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2010 22:51 Captain Peabody wrote:Heh. Luxury: the Pete Rose of eSports.
There seems to be a lot of overreaction here... Remember that though a ton of names appeared on the list, there are still a lot of very high level progamers (Flash, Baby, Zero, Light, etc.) that have yet to be implicated. This isn't going to kill eSports, it'll just be like the doping scandal in baseball. It will suck, but people will move on. Baseball is a LOT more established in America than Starcraft in Korea. At the time of the doping scandal, we'd already been playing baseball for like a hundred years, with plenty of big names and famous guys well in the past. There was never a chance that everyone would simply stop playing Baseball. With Starcraft, we've had like ten years of pro-gaming, and the game's still not nearly as accepted as it could be in Korean society; this, especially with the involvement of such big-name players, could easily destroy all the respect and prestige Starcraft has gained over the last ten years. Plus, we've got Starcraft 2 coming out, with a big pressure to switch games and and abandon Broodwar. You really can't compare the two situations. (sigh) Am I the only one who thinks that such a scandal could improve the acceptance of progaming instead of setting it on the path to oblivion? This will get to news and will most likely acknowledge people who previously had no idea that progaming is actually a big business. For the average office rat this is a sign that things are serious and progaming is a large established market. I'm leaning towards the thought that progaming as a whole will benefit from the whole story...
Only if KeSPA etc. handle it like it's really a scandal and they're really a big sport. If they show that sort of dedication and effort at legitimacy, then yes in the long run it could help. If they try to cover it up or ignore it, it'll just look like wrestling or some other stupid thing no one cares about.
So yes, it's an opportunity to show the world that e-sports can deal with problems in a professional manner, but the "long-term result" largely depends on whether they actually do.
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I really hope next thing we learn about are illegal starcraft games played underground in cages
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On April 13 2010 01:12 Maynard wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2010 01:07 Azarkon wrote:On April 13 2010 01:03 Maynard wrote:On April 13 2010 00:57 Azarkon wrote:
Well, this certainly made me a lot less interested in Korean SC. I guess it's foreigner SC/SC2 for me, now, though I have no doubt it'll be tainted at some point in the future as well. It does create an interesting dilemma for e-sports in general, where tourney money is low enough that players can be easily tempted into illegal gambling, where the profit margin is potentially so much higher. Non-Koreans are also notorious for cheating. Every event has had rampant cheating. This will not end. Cheaters are not hurt in any long term fashion. Look at everyones acceptance of this Testie guy. I can tell you back in the day this guy would even cheat and maphack in fun custom games. Cheating was so ingrained in his soul. The chances of there being cheating in small tournaments are probably a lot lower. You'd be surprised at the people i know with close to 99.999% certainty cheated. You'd be pretty shocked. I won't say shit tho so don't ask. Lets just say that i wouldn't really trust any gaming tournament.
lol that's the perfect moment to tell, the shit is up anyway, purify your soul and give all what you know. SC is soon dead anyway. Go for it. it won't hurt. Who care about the consequences, it's not like somebody is gonna die.
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On April 13 2010 01:12 Maynard wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2010 01:07 Azarkon wrote:On April 13 2010 01:03 Maynard wrote:On April 13 2010 00:57 Azarkon wrote:
Well, this certainly made me a lot less interested in Korean SC. I guess it's foreigner SC/SC2 for me, now, though I have no doubt it'll be tainted at some point in the future as well. It does create an interesting dilemma for e-sports in general, where tourney money is low enough that players can be easily tempted into illegal gambling, where the profit margin is potentially so much higher. Non-Koreans are also notorious for cheating. Every event has had rampant cheating. This will not end. Cheaters are not hurt in any long term fashion. Look at everyones acceptance of this Testie guy. I can tell you back in the day this guy would even cheat and maphack in fun custom games. Cheating was so ingrained in his soul. The chances of there being cheating in small tournaments are probably a lot lower. You'd be surprised at the people i know with close to 99.999% certainty cheated. You'd be pretty shocked. I won't say shit tho so don't ask. Lets just say that i wouldn't really trust any gaming tournament.
Why protect them?
Why even bring it up other than to increase pessimism in the legitimacy of competitive bw and show off your "inside knowledge"?
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On April 13 2010 01:21 3clipse wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2010 01:12 Maynard wrote:On April 13 2010 01:07 Azarkon wrote:On April 13 2010 01:03 Maynard wrote:On April 13 2010 00:57 Azarkon wrote:
Well, this certainly made me a lot less interested in Korean SC. I guess it's foreigner SC/SC2 for me, now, though I have no doubt it'll be tainted at some point in the future as well. It does create an interesting dilemma for e-sports in general, where tourney money is low enough that players can be easily tempted into illegal gambling, where the profit margin is potentially so much higher. Non-Koreans are also notorious for cheating. Every event has had rampant cheating. This will not end. Cheaters are not hurt in any long term fashion. Look at everyones acceptance of this Testie guy. I can tell you back in the day this guy would even cheat and maphack in fun custom games. Cheating was so ingrained in his soul. The chances of there being cheating in small tournaments are probably a lot lower. You'd be surprised at the people i know with close to 99.999% certainty cheated. You'd be pretty shocked. I won't say shit tho so don't ask. Lets just say that i wouldn't really trust any gaming tournament. Why protect them? Why even bring it up other than to increase pessimism in the legitimacy of competitive bw and show off your "inside knowledge"? because hes an attention whoring douchebag with a superiority complex. dont feed him.
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A fomos article claims that "A former pro gamer coach, a former match caster/announcer, a pro-gaming scene reporter, and other numerous former pro-gamers" are involved.
Clearly this means that Tasteless, Artosis, Rekrul, and SDM are the ringleaders!
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EPT
