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On April 13 2010 01:47 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2010 01:40 Maynard wrote:On April 13 2010 01:22 IdrA wrote:On April 13 2010 01:21 3clipse wrote:On April 13 2010 01:12 Maynard wrote:On April 13 2010 01:07 Azarkon wrote:On April 13 2010 01:03 Maynard wrote:On April 13 2010 00:57 Azarkon wrote:
Well, this certainly made me a lot less interested in Korean SC. I guess it's foreigner SC/SC2 for me, now, though I have no doubt it'll be tainted at some point in the future as well. It does create an interesting dilemma for e-sports in general, where tourney money is low enough that players can be easily tempted into illegal gambling, where the profit margin is potentially so much higher. Non-Koreans are also notorious for cheating. Every event has had rampant cheating. This will not end. Cheaters are not hurt in any long term fashion. Look at everyones acceptance of this Testie guy. I can tell you back in the day this guy would even cheat and maphack in fun custom games. Cheating was so ingrained in his soul. The chances of there being cheating in small tournaments are probably a lot lower. You'd be surprised at the people i know with close to 99.999% certainty cheated. You'd be pretty shocked. I won't say shit tho so don't ask. Lets just say that i wouldn't really trust any gaming tournament. Why protect them? Why even bring it up other than to increase pessimism in the legitimacy of competitive bw and show off your "inside knowledge"? because hes an attention whoring douchebag with a superiority complex. dont feed him. You appeared on my radar when someone messaged me 2 years ago saying "omg theres some dude cleaning toilets in korea for pro gaming teams." You stayed on there when you said former pro gamers were failures and how they failed because they focused on having fun and exploring korea and didn't play starcraft enough. You defined everyones failure because they didn't win tournaments and didnt practice hard. The only reason you should be gaming in korea is for fun man. Maybe you see me as having a superiority complex but it's just because you're a naive misguided kid. You're terribly misguided and smug and arrogant in your misguided ways. I've seen others speak about you and to you about how you're fucking everything up. Rekrul for one. Its not because we hate its because we've been there and done that and can see how you're fucking things up so horribly bad. You also say things like discounting grrrs success because he had practice partners and you don't. Grrr was fuckin good thats why he won. Saying shit like that is gonna rub people the wrong way because you're seriously so off on your assessment of the situation. You know what dude? Its so easy to get korean players to want to be your buddy. Every single korean guy would wanna play w/ you if you weren't such a prick. EVery single Korean gamer was my friend and wanted to hang out, game, and go out. Chill out and enjoy shit more. um you're flat out making shit up, ive never said anything bad about grrr and i dont remember any comments about past foreigners "failure" beyond explaining why i think ive stayed here longer than most. you had your own motives for going to korea, i have mine. im not here for an experience or an adventure or whatever, im here to play a game as well as i can. if you just wanted to have fun and you did, then you succeeded at that, but you still didnt succeed at gaming. the superiority complex part was mostly due to all your posts on the sc2 forum recently "lolol i dont play this game but you nerds are terrible." basically you're just a faggot in general.
Ok whatever man. I can guarantee you that you'll regret your time in korea. And I'm sorry but the gaming level in that tournament final was substantially low. I think everyone was a little disappointed. Don't think your level was low but your opponents was. As a person just chillin watching this shit as a spectator I can comment.
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So far I see a lot of condemnation and nothing in the way of evidence. Let's wait and see what happens.
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On April 13 2010 01:49 konadora wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2010 01:34 Maynard wrote:On April 13 2010 01:21 3clipse wrote:On April 13 2010 01:12 Maynard wrote:On April 13 2010 01:07 Azarkon wrote:On April 13 2010 01:03 Maynard wrote:On April 13 2010 00:57 Azarkon wrote:
Well, this certainly made me a lot less interested in Korean SC. I guess it's foreigner SC/SC2 for me, now, though I have no doubt it'll be tainted at some point in the future as well. It does create an interesting dilemma for e-sports in general, where tourney money is low enough that players can be easily tempted into illegal gambling, where the profit margin is potentially so much higher. Non-Koreans are also notorious for cheating. Every event has had rampant cheating. This will not end. Cheaters are not hurt in any long term fashion. Look at everyones acceptance of this Testie guy. I can tell you back in the day this guy would even cheat and maphack in fun custom games. Cheating was so ingrained in his soul. The chances of there being cheating in small tournaments are probably a lot lower. You'd be surprised at the people i know with close to 99.999% certainty cheated. You'd be pretty shocked. I won't say shit tho so don't ask. Lets just say that i wouldn't really trust any gaming tournament. Why protect them? Why even bring it up other than to increase pessimism in the legitimacy of competitive bw and show off your "inside knowledge"? Why bring up things done a long time ago and call people out? I don't wanna fuck ppl over. Why bring it up? You guys are pretty naive and its annoying. I feel compelled to enlighten and advise in a way. Then don't post.
+1.
seriously.the world will be much better without your shitty enlightenment and advice.
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On April 12 2010 16:02 LosingID8 wrote:
what i'm wondering is that kespa was clearly aware of these illegal betting sites and yet did not take action until now?
seems kind of weird...
Maybe some people in kespa were making a little money themselves? o.O
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On April 13 2010 01:52 Stropheum wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2010 16:02 LosingID8 wrote:
what i'm wondering is that kespa was clearly aware of these illegal betting sites and yet did not take action until now?
seems kind of weird... Maybe some people in kespa were making a little money themselves? o.O
oh great.now we're speculating that kespa is also involved.what else can happen?
but to be fair you maybe right.or kespa are just too damn lazy.
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On April 13 2010 01:46 Mooncat wrote:
Just in case I missed something: There's still no solid evidence about anyone's involvement right?
No solid evidence released yet because its a pending criminal investigation. But why do you think there were so many mysterious breaks, and players taken off the A team, and rule changes for the proleague? I mean, yeah, Luxury and Savior weren't exactly owning, but they weren't bad enough to be demoted to B team.
These news sites would not be running stuff like this if there wasn't stuff backing it up. I know you don't want to believe it, and hopefully it doesn't extend much past Savior and Lux, but I fear the worst (Bisu/Jaedong/Stork/Fantasy being involved, which would be huge =[)
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On April 13 2010 01:49 konadora wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2010 01:34 Maynard wrote:On April 13 2010 01:21 3clipse wrote:On April 13 2010 01:12 Maynard wrote:On April 13 2010 01:07 Azarkon wrote:On April 13 2010 01:03 Maynard wrote:On April 13 2010 00:57 Azarkon wrote:
Well, this certainly made me a lot less interested in Korean SC. I guess it's foreigner SC/SC2 for me, now, though I have no doubt it'll be tainted at some point in the future as well. It does create an interesting dilemma for e-sports in general, where tourney money is low enough that players can be easily tempted into illegal gambling, where the profit margin is potentially so much higher. Non-Koreans are also notorious for cheating. Every event has had rampant cheating. This will not end. Cheaters are not hurt in any long term fashion. Look at everyones acceptance of this Testie guy. I can tell you back in the day this guy would even cheat and maphack in fun custom games. Cheating was so ingrained in his soul. The chances of there being cheating in small tournaments are probably a lot lower. You'd be surprised at the people i know with close to 99.999% certainty cheated. You'd be pretty shocked. I won't say shit tho so don't ask. Lets just say that i wouldn't really trust any gaming tournament. Why protect them? Why even bring it up other than to increase pessimism in the legitimacy of competitive bw and show off your "inside knowledge"? Why bring up things done a long time ago and call people out? I don't wanna fuck ppl over. Why bring it up? You guys are pretty naive and its annoying. I feel compelled to enlighten and advise in a way. Then don't post.
Because it doesn't matter who cheated or who did what to win 500 dollars here and there. Main point is that it'll happen again by people who rae well known in the community. Can't put the chances of $ or asian women in korea or wutever in front of a basement dwelling nerd w/o expecting some cheating and underhanded shit.
You guys are acting naive. Oh my god youre so surprised that these guys would do this. But at least the nonkorean community is free of this right? And why would i throw some people under a bus for something so rampant that someone who didnt cheat was an exception rather than the norm.
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Wow, blows my mind. Hoping that evidence will come out to absolve many players. Just want to say:
- don't blame every slump on match-fixing. Everybody sucks now and then
- Go Flash. The guy cried after losing to hyvaa on a 2-game losing streak. If he is a cheater I'll prob stop watching pro-BW. I wonder how much they would have offered him to lose to Movie last OSL.
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On April 13 2010 01:51 BloodDrunK wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2010 01:49 konadora wrote:On April 13 2010 01:34 Maynard wrote:On April 13 2010 01:21 3clipse wrote:On April 13 2010 01:12 Maynard wrote:On April 13 2010 01:07 Azarkon wrote:On April 13 2010 01:03 Maynard wrote:On April 13 2010 00:57 Azarkon wrote:
Well, this certainly made me a lot less interested in Korean SC. I guess it's foreigner SC/SC2 for me, now, though I have no doubt it'll be tainted at some point in the future as well. It does create an interesting dilemma for e-sports in general, where tourney money is low enough that players can be easily tempted into illegal gambling, where the profit margin is potentially so much higher. Non-Koreans are also notorious for cheating. Every event has had rampant cheating. This will not end. Cheaters are not hurt in any long term fashion. Look at everyones acceptance of this Testie guy. I can tell you back in the day this guy would even cheat and maphack in fun custom games. Cheating was so ingrained in his soul. The chances of there being cheating in small tournaments are probably a lot lower. You'd be surprised at the people i know with close to 99.999% certainty cheated. You'd be pretty shocked. I won't say shit tho so don't ask. Lets just say that i wouldn't really trust any gaming tournament. Why protect them? Why even bring it up other than to increase pessimism in the legitimacy of competitive bw and show off your "inside knowledge"? Why bring up things done a long time ago and call people out? I don't wanna fuck ppl over. Why bring it up? You guys are pretty naive and its annoying. I feel compelled to enlighten and advise in a way. Then don't post. +1. seriously.the world will be much better without your shitty enlightenment and advice.
#3
and
[x] Sentence them to jail
seriously what else?
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This is really shocking news but at the same time I feel really stupid for not expecting something like this to happen. There was simply too much incentive; the average salary of the accused progamers is probably under 100k, an amount any of them could make in a single game if they have enough money to bet.
It's really a tragedy but if you look at the history of sports this kind of thing has been going on since sports existed, as far back as the ancient olympics there was "match fixing". These days professional sports have teams devoted solely to maintaining the integrity of the games with their concern being sports betting and match fixing. Esports will now have to do the same.
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On April 13 2010 01:59 AmstAff wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2010 01:51 BloodDrunK wrote:On April 13 2010 01:49 konadora wrote:On April 13 2010 01:34 Maynard wrote:On April 13 2010 01:21 3clipse wrote:On April 13 2010 01:12 Maynard wrote:On April 13 2010 01:07 Azarkon wrote:On April 13 2010 01:03 Maynard wrote:On April 13 2010 00:57 Azarkon wrote:
Well, this certainly made me a lot less interested in Korean SC. I guess it's foreigner SC/SC2 for me, now, though I have no doubt it'll be tainted at some point in the future as well. It does create an interesting dilemma for e-sports in general, where tourney money is low enough that players can be easily tempted into illegal gambling, where the profit margin is potentially so much higher. Non-Koreans are also notorious for cheating. Every event has had rampant cheating. This will not end. Cheaters are not hurt in any long term fashion. Look at everyones acceptance of this Testie guy. I can tell you back in the day this guy would even cheat and maphack in fun custom games. Cheating was so ingrained in his soul. The chances of there being cheating in small tournaments are probably a lot lower. You'd be surprised at the people i know with close to 99.999% certainty cheated. You'd be pretty shocked. I won't say shit tho so don't ask. Lets just say that i wouldn't really trust any gaming tournament. Why protect them? Why even bring it up other than to increase pessimism in the legitimacy of competitive bw and show off your "inside knowledge"? Why bring up things done a long time ago and call people out? I don't wanna fuck ppl over. Why bring it up? You guys are pretty naive and its annoying. I feel compelled to enlighten and advise in a way. Then don't post. +1. seriously.the world will be much better without your shitty enlightenment and advice. #3 and [x] Sentence them to jail seriously what else?
No need, system is corrupt these kids are just trying to make money as much a real estate is trying to sell you a house. Public apologize would be the best. It's impossible to avoid corruption when money is involved. It's better to just move on with more regulation.
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I am rather ambivalent as to what the punishment should be. While those who participated in match fixing (if this can be proven conclusively) should definitely face some sort of retribution, I do not believe jail time or the like is the correct answer. The various pressures that progamers face make all this understandable, even if it is reprehensible.
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Everyone who is proved to have thrown games or taken bribes to throw a game, or bet against themselves, should be permanently stripped of their progaming license. If Esports is to be legitimate it can't respond in any other way =[
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On April 13 2010 02:15 PanzerDragoon wrote:
Everyone who is proved to have thrown games or taken bribes to throw a game, or bet against themselves, should be permanently stripped of their progaming license. If Esports is to be legitimate it can't respond in any other way =[
We had match fixing in the Italian football league four years ago. The players who were part of it still play today.
I think we are all overreacting because we've been hurt.
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This kind of reminds me of fixing games in NBA or in Italian soccer (clubs involved such as Milan, Juventus and Inter, each of these are bigger than the entire kespa).
I hope the players all of the involved are punished. An extra plus for teamliquid admins for trying their best to keep the integrity of their tournaments.
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On April 13 2010 02:18 SuperArc wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2010 02:15 PanzerDragoon wrote:
Everyone who is proved to have thrown games or taken bribes to throw a game, or bet against themselves, should be permanently stripped of their progaming license. If Esports is to be legitimate it can't respond in any other way =[ We had match fixing in the Italian football league four years ago. The players who were part of it still play today. I think we are all overreacting because we've been hurt.
Which is the fucking wrong decision.
When the 1919 White Sox were caught fixing the world series, half the team got permanently banned from baseball because it so heavily tarnished the game. Pete Rose gambled on games as a player and manager, and he is barred from ever participating in baseball ever again. Dozens of college basketball players and schools have been punished or booted off the team for being involved in point shaving scandals.
Plus Italy, being a country where organized crime was a way of life, is much more accepting of bribes and corruption anyways.
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Maynard is right and it's kinda silly that people are challenging him on this. Fuck, I remember when Elky was caught in a cheating scandal and everyone acted all surprised. I remember competing in old War3 tourneys and how often known cheaters would take 1st place without any repricussions. If you're deep into the scene you know who cheats and this shit is relatively rampant.
This shit happens in every sport and event and the only thing that is truly shocking is that steps aren't often taken to clamp down on it.
LOLing at people that don't take Maynard seriously. He's about as much an authority you're going to get on early SC. Ladder abuse at the very least was the norm rather than the exception, though I'd argue that it's usually not the "majority" cheating with regards to things like maphacks and thrown matches - it's just enough to be a sizeable %.
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On April 13 2010 01:58 Maynard wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2010 01:49 konadora wrote:On April 13 2010 01:34 Maynard wrote:On April 13 2010 01:21 3clipse wrote:On April 13 2010 01:12 Maynard wrote:On April 13 2010 01:07 Azarkon wrote:On April 13 2010 01:03 Maynard wrote:On April 13 2010 00:57 Azarkon wrote:
Well, this certainly made me a lot less interested in Korean SC. I guess it's foreigner SC/SC2 for me, now, though I have no doubt it'll be tainted at some point in the future as well. It does create an interesting dilemma for e-sports in general, where tourney money is low enough that players can be easily tempted into illegal gambling, where the profit margin is potentially so much higher. Non-Koreans are also notorious for cheating. Every event has had rampant cheating. This will not end. Cheaters are not hurt in any long term fashion. Look at everyones acceptance of this Testie guy. I can tell you back in the day this guy would even cheat and maphack in fun custom games. Cheating was so ingrained in his soul. The chances of there being cheating in small tournaments are probably a lot lower. You'd be surprised at the people i know with close to 99.999% certainty cheated. You'd be pretty shocked. I won't say shit tho so don't ask. Lets just say that i wouldn't really trust any gaming tournament. Why protect them? Why even bring it up other than to increase pessimism in the legitimacy of competitive bw and show off your "inside knowledge"? Why bring up things done a long time ago and call people out? I don't wanna fuck ppl over. Why bring it up? You guys are pretty naive and its annoying. I feel compelled to enlighten and advise in a way. Then don't post. You guys are acting naive. Oh my god youre so surprised that these guys would do this. But at least the nonkorean community is free of this right? And why would i throw some people under a bus for something so rampant that someone who didnt cheat was an exception rather than the norm.
A cheater often justifies their actions by claiming that "everyone is doing it" and that they are just trying to keep up. In the mind of a cheater they are just leveling the playing field. To a cheater it is obvious that everyone else is cheating too. However, a non-cheater plays honestly because they can't imagine that other people would even want to win under false pretenses.
Do you see where I'm going with this?
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well if nothing else, if broodwar esports survives this it can survive anything
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EPT
