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On April 13 2010 02:28 Dental Floss wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2010 01:58 Maynard wrote:On April 13 2010 01:49 konadora wrote:On April 13 2010 01:34 Maynard wrote:On April 13 2010 01:21 3clipse wrote:On April 13 2010 01:12 Maynard wrote:On April 13 2010 01:07 Azarkon wrote:On April 13 2010 01:03 Maynard wrote:On April 13 2010 00:57 Azarkon wrote:
Well, this certainly made me a lot less interested in Korean SC. I guess it's foreigner SC/SC2 for me, now, though I have no doubt it'll be tainted at some point in the future as well. It does create an interesting dilemma for e-sports in general, where tourney money is low enough that players can be easily tempted into illegal gambling, where the profit margin is potentially so much higher. Non-Koreans are also notorious for cheating. Every event has had rampant cheating. This will not end. Cheaters are not hurt in any long term fashion. Look at everyones acceptance of this Testie guy. I can tell you back in the day this guy would even cheat and maphack in fun custom games. Cheating was so ingrained in his soul. The chances of there being cheating in small tournaments are probably a lot lower. You'd be surprised at the people i know with close to 99.999% certainty cheated. You'd be pretty shocked. I won't say shit tho so don't ask. Lets just say that i wouldn't really trust any gaming tournament. Why protect them? Why even bring it up other than to increase pessimism in the legitimacy of competitive bw and show off your "inside knowledge"? Why bring up things done a long time ago and call people out? I don't wanna fuck ppl over. Why bring it up? You guys are pretty naive and its annoying. I feel compelled to enlighten and advise in a way. Then don't post. You guys are acting naive. Oh my god youre so surprised that these guys would do this. But at least the nonkorean community is free of this right? And why would i throw some people under a bus for something so rampant that someone who didnt cheat was an exception rather than the norm. A cheater often justifies their actions by claiming that "everyone is doing it" and that they are just trying to keep up. In the mind of a cheater they are just leveling the playing field. To a cheater it is obvious that everyone else is cheating too. However, a non-cheater plays honestly because they can't imagine that other people would even want to win under false pretenses. Do you see where I'm going with this?
Yes I do but that statement is a littel idealistic.
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Did you ever bend the rules because you felt pressure to keep up with the tournament scene?
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Best I not say anything about anything anymore. I'm out gamers. Be smart.
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On April 13 2010 02:18 SuperArc wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2010 02:15 PanzerDragoon wrote:
Everyone who is proved to have thrown games or taken bribes to throw a game, or bet against themselves, should be permanently stripped of their progaming license. If Esports is to be legitimate it can't respond in any other way =[ We had match fixing in the Italian football league four years ago. The players who were part of it still play today. I think we are all overreacting because we've been hurt.
But players were not part of it...
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So much for professionalism and integrity.. BURN IN HELLLL
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On April 13 2010 02:42 Maynard wrote:
Best I not say anything about anything anymore. I'm out gamers. Be smart.
pr0 ninja edit 
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On April 13 2010 02:00 Smuft wrote:
This is really shocking news but at the same time I feel really stupid for not expecting something like this to happen. There was simply too much incentive; the average salary of the accused progamers is probably under 100k, an amount any of them could make in a single game if they have enough money to bet.
It's really a tragedy but if you look at the history of sports this kind of thing has been going on since sports existed, as far back as the ancient olympics there was "match fixing". These days professional sports have teams devoted solely to maintaining the integrity of the games with their concern being sports betting and match fixing. Esports will now have to do the same.
http://teamareola.com/smallNews.php?theID=337
Hi Smuft.
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On April 12 2010 19:16 FireGuyX wrote:
I wonder if programers got paid losing to Flash.
Seriously you all guys are so fucking dumb. Do you seriously not understand how gambling works???
(I know most understand how it works, comments like that just make me rage)
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what does one do when all he believes in this world is made of bullshit
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On April 13 2010 02:46 Elegy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2010 02:42 Maynard wrote:
Best I not say anything about anything anymore. I'm out gamers. Be smart. pr0 ninja edit
Haha if I had known I would have copy paste, anyway Maynard just said that in the past some players were offering him freewin in tournament qualifiers and he accepted.
It's always good to know, it reminds me KBK21 (http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/leagues/297_KBK_Jeju_Intl_Festival/main) , GG Scream and Chobo would ask me to play twice against them because they knew for a fact that it would be freewin, I accepted coze it was a chance for me to play top players. So no wonder how ScrEam was in the top 10 out of thousands of gamers and got to the final stage.
Anyway nobody's gonna be convicted for crime, but at least it makes things clearer.
If anybody wanna spit previous tournaments that has been won by cheaters, feel free. Honest players deserve to know at least what was going on at this moment.
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If all the names mentioned in the post at DC is true, this is going to be a catastrophy for BW and esports in general. Supposing players like luxury/yarnc, leta and gogo, or maybe even best and effort turn out to be scoundrels, it's going to be a damaging scandal. But if names like Stork, Bisu, Jaedong did it, BW is going to have a hard time surviving until SC2 comes out.
Still, I find it unlikely that match-fixing can go on to such an extent without someone morally intact to find out and inform the right entities. However, if it is true that Kespa and most progamer officials have been aware but didnt act in fear of the consequences for esports, this can get very very bad.
My hopes are that Kespa and the esport organizations are competent enough to realize that if not dealt with harshly and swiftly, the problem would only grow and eventually get too big to simply ignore, and that what we are seeing now is just that, a quick and strict reaction.
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Is there any hard evidence against any specific progamer so far? who?
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wow, that's unbeliveable.. seriously 
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I've read most of what has been translated, and from what I've seen there's no hard evidence. Savior is the name that seems to pop up everywhere closely followed by luxury and yarnc. So far all we have are accusations and saviors silhouette from an official esports site. (Fomos?)
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Holy shit @ that most recent update to the OP. It looks like the cascade is starting.
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United States1726 Posts
The "right" punishment is probably to ban the offenders permanently from participating in any KeSPA-sanctioned event (or anything ever broadcast on OGN/MBC, just to make sure Heritage League and stuff would be covered) and fine them everything they made off the match fixing plus some kind of punitive sum.
But even this kind of penalty won't prevent the problem from reoccurring as long as the incentives are so strong. It's been demonstrated that harsher penalties don't really have a stronger deterrent effect on would-be criminals because they almost universally commit crimes under the belief that they won't be caught.
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On April 13 2010 01:54 PanzerDragoon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2010 01:46 Mooncat wrote:
Just in case I missed something: There's still no solid evidence about anyone's involvement right?
No solid evidence released yet because its a pending criminal investigation. But why do you think there were so many mysterious breaks, and players taken off the A team, and rule changes for the proleague? I mean, yeah, Luxury and Savior weren't exactly owning, but they weren't bad enough to be demoted to B team. These news sites would not be running stuff like this if there wasn't stuff backing it up. I know you don't want to believe it, and hopefully it doesn't extend much past Savior and Lux, but I fear the worst (Bisu/Jaedong/Stork/Fantasy being involved, which would be huge =[)
Also konadora translated a Sea interview where he makes a comment about the scandal. So it's kinda official there is some corruption in Broodwar, but as he said it's some players (and coaching staff?) no need to condemn all the industry.
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On April 13 2010 03:11 StylishVODs wrote:
Is there any hard evidence against any specific progamer so far? who?
Why, Combat-Ex of course! Although there's no evidence that money changed hands, there was a *LOT* of begging involved, and an actual replay of the free win happening!
Naturally, the whole foreign pro-BroodWar scene was shocked - shocked! - when they found out that their once-legendary pro, Combat-Ex, was involved in matchfixing. Later on that year Combat-Ex took place in a pro match with TL's very own Chill, and that led to rumours that one or more of the participants were under the influence of a banned performance-enhancing substance known only as 'Bear Semen'.
The Korean proscene is only mimicking what foreigners have been up to for years.
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Wow, this is incredibly disturbing. I consider myself to be one of NaDa's most (if not the most) stalwart fans, but if he were convicted of doing this I hope I would have the courage to sever all the admiration I have for him. I truly hope that this scandal does not extend back into the golden years of progaming. I hope that players such as NaDa, BoxeR, Yellow, oov (lol), Kingdom, Nal_rA, Reach, ChoJJa, ZeuS, TheMarine etc.. are innocent.
I think the appropriate action at the very least is for all the progamers involved to be kicked from their teams and banned from progaming for life. Yeah, it might seem harsh to some but a powerful example must be made to try and prevent this from happening in the future. I know you can't eradicate it but at least make the punishment so severe that someone will think twice and it will set the tone if they do(Even if such retributive actions aren't usually factors in the minds of people who would do this it's still important to make the punishment severe.)
Also, the amount of animosity toward Rekrul's posts was astounding. Despite Waxangel reporting the same (or similar) and regardless of Rek's proclivity to have fun it was ridiculous how many people refused to even consider it. Also, using this scandal as a scapegoat for why X player started slumping is so fallacious. This scandal does not exonerate someone's poor performance, at best it casts a pall of uncertainty over their entire career (especially without specifics.) Maybe we'll find out that some of them weren't involved and that's great but it's obvious this is real and all we can do it wait and see.
This is extremely disappointing.
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EPT
