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[MSL] Approximation of Game 3 in save file - Page 3

Forum Index > BW General
Post a Reply
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jodogohoo
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada2533 Posts
January 23 2010 23:49 GMT
#41
http://sharebee.com/08cbb9ba
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States44283 Posts
January 23 2010 23:49 GMT
#42
As much as I love arguing about this we already have like 2 topics, 2 news and 5 blogs for it. Can we go there? I'll happily continue the argument if you just pm me a link to wherever we're starting it. I wanna get some feedback from players who have tried this save file. Post reps!
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
January 23 2010 23:50 GMT
#43
On January 24 2010 08:49 Foucault wrote:
What about possible dropships?


or valkyries to kill all of jaedong's overlords

we just don't know
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States44283 Posts
January 23 2010 23:51 GMT
#44
On January 24 2010 08:49 Foucault wrote:
What about possible dropships?

I took into account starport production and awarded him 2 more vessels than the observer had seen. I also left him more than enough minerals and gas to make 2 dropships. I felt it would be more Flash rigged to give him 2 more vessels than 2 dropships.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
opsayo
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
591 Posts
January 23 2010 23:51 GMT
#45
i think by now most people have accepted flash would have lost that game

but the sad part is that it probably costed him the next game as well
koreasilver
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
9109 Posts
January 23 2010 23:53 GMT
#46
On January 24 2010 08:50 Mindcrime wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 24 2010 08:49 Foucault wrote:
What about possible dropships?


or valkyries to kill all of jaedong's overlords

we just don't know

Nothing's impossible.
jalstar
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States8198 Posts
January 23 2010 23:54 GMT
#47
On January 24 2010 08:47 KwarK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 24 2010 08:44 jalstar wrote:
On January 24 2010 08:42 KwarK wrote:
On January 24 2010 08:39 jalstar wrote:
On January 24 2010 08:36 thopol wrote:
On January 24 2010 08:33 jalstar wrote:
On January 24 2010 08:32 thopol wrote:
On January 24 2010 08:30 jalstar wrote:
The actual "good arguments" have been ones relating to Kespa's unprofessionalism, whether it's right to ever award a game that's not over to someone (imo, no), and what the hell MBC was thinking in the first place with that stupid virtual studio.

Those aren't arguments. They're mostly just bitching.

Nobody liked how events turned out. That's not contentious, which is a feature that is mandatory to have arguments.


well that's why "good arguments" is in quotes, because everyone agrees, except for a few people saying the whole thing's fine and dandy because jaedong was ahead

I don't think that Kwark thought the series was fine and dandy. I don't think anyone did. I really think what he is doing is trying to illustrate to the wide world of noobs that Flash wasn't coming back from that. This issue has been irritatingly rampant, so why not applaud Kwark for working to dispel it.


Because Kwark is a dumbass for not realizing that giving a win to someone in any situation is terrible. A replay would have hurt Jaedong but it also would have been the fair thing to do, and the whole thing with Flash's dad and KT wouldn't have happened, leading to a fairer game 4.

Although there is no truly fair solution with the power going out, and whoever won regardless of what happened after that should get an asterisk next to the win.

JaeDong didn't get given a win. He earned a win when he defended Flash's allin at 7 and won the game. Flash hadn't typed out yet but the game was over. The formality of the typing out is important and ideally I'd be all over that. But it's not so important as the denying of a clear cut victory in the MSL finals. And those are your options. Option 1, say "sorry Flash, I know you weren't planning to type out for another 20 seconds but that's the way it is". Option 2, say "sorry JaeDong, you gotta do over, better hope that build works twice lol".

The choice seems pretty clear cut to me.


Let him play on a proleague map then, you'd think that with WL coming up they have builds prepared for those.

To me, the formality is what's important because it's the FINALS. It should be uncontested, and leave us with an undisputed better player. That's not what we got, especially with game 4 being what it was.

You honestly think it'd be less contested if JD won a game in all but name (as he did in game 3) and then had it taken away? Really? Imagine if Flash won game 3 then JD won game 4 and Flash won game 5. Everyone would know that it should have been 3-1. There would still be no doubt that JD won the original game 3, just as there is no doubt about it now. The difference is that it cost him the series.

I don't get how you can say that in order to make the winner less disputed you should take away a win from a player. Someone had to get something. Flash getting a regame would be way more disputable (such as the 3-2 win situation I mentioned above) than this was.


Flash getting a regame wouldn't have led to the hour-long delay and his shaky game 4 performance after seeing his dad erupt at Kespa/MBC. It would have been disputed, no doubt, but not as much as this. No way.
lgd-haze
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden547 Posts
January 23 2010 23:54 GMT
#48
On January 24 2010 08:51 opsayo wrote:
i think by now most people have accepted flash would have lost that game

but the sad part is that it probably costed him the next game as well


But that's his own fault, isn't it? Survival of the fittest baby!

Nonetheless, I like both players. It's sad it turned out like this
Flying Tushin!!
yushis1
Profile Joined July 2009
United States9 Posts
January 23 2010 23:56 GMT
#49
I really want to see two people of similar skill play this game out and post the replay.

I'm too terrible at Starcraft to be a good experiment
WaZuP
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Germany487 Posts
January 23 2010 23:57 GMT
#50
On January 24 2010 08:51 opsayo wrote:
i think by now most people have accepted flash would have lost that game

but the sad part is that it probably costed him the next game as well

true

nice idea with the map
Tien
Profile Joined January 2003
Russian Federation4447 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-24 00:17:06
January 24 2010 00:01 GMT
#51
OK I watched the end of the VOD closely.


17:48 -> 2 marines at Flash natural

17:53 -> 1 round of marines exiting rax through mini map

18:10 -> 2 marines and round of marines reinforce. This is the army that currently resides at Flash natural at blackout time.

18:17 -> 1 round of rines exiting rax

18:34 -> 1 round of rines exiting rax plus 2 science vessels.



OFFICIALLY AT TIME OF BLACKOUT:

Flash -> 1 marine control group + 9 medics at 9 expo.

5 vessels all with low energy at 9 expo.

2 full groups of Marines + 2 vessels at main base natural.
We decide our own destiny
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States44283 Posts
January 24 2010 00:02 GMT
#52
I gave him 26 marines and 8 medics so that should be about right.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
sassy
Profile Joined December 2009
240 Posts
January 24 2010 00:02 GMT
#53
dont mind jalstar

one of the absolutely horrible posters on this site. Whiny, shitty and clueless. Not that i like kwark, i hate him too. But this time he has some reasoning

good work here, props
jalstar
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States8198 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-24 00:06:57
January 24 2010 00:06 GMT
#54
On January 24 2010 09:02 sassy wrote:
dont mind jalstar

one of the absolutely horrible posters on this site. Whiny, shitty and clueless. Not that i like kwark, i hate him too. But this time he has some reasoning

good work here, props


thanks for your great opinion on a 1700+ post poster who's never been banned or warned
SuperArc
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Austria7781 Posts
January 24 2010 00:09 GMT
#55
On January 24 2010 08:54 jalstar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 24 2010 08:47 KwarK wrote:
On January 24 2010 08:44 jalstar wrote:
On January 24 2010 08:42 KwarK wrote:
On January 24 2010 08:39 jalstar wrote:
On January 24 2010 08:36 thopol wrote:
On January 24 2010 08:33 jalstar wrote:
On January 24 2010 08:32 thopol wrote:
On January 24 2010 08:30 jalstar wrote:
The actual "good arguments" have been ones relating to Kespa's unprofessionalism, whether it's right to ever award a game that's not over to someone (imo, no), and what the hell MBC was thinking in the first place with that stupid virtual studio.

Those aren't arguments. They're mostly just bitching.

Nobody liked how events turned out. That's not contentious, which is a feature that is mandatory to have arguments.


well that's why "good arguments" is in quotes, because everyone agrees, except for a few people saying the whole thing's fine and dandy because jaedong was ahead

I don't think that Kwark thought the series was fine and dandy. I don't think anyone did. I really think what he is doing is trying to illustrate to the wide world of noobs that Flash wasn't coming back from that. This issue has been irritatingly rampant, so why not applaud Kwark for working to dispel it.


Because Kwark is a dumbass for not realizing that giving a win to someone in any situation is terrible. A replay would have hurt Jaedong but it also would have been the fair thing to do, and the whole thing with Flash's dad and KT wouldn't have happened, leading to a fairer game 4.

Although there is no truly fair solution with the power going out, and whoever won regardless of what happened after that should get an asterisk next to the win.

JaeDong didn't get given a win. He earned a win when he defended Flash's allin at 7 and won the game. Flash hadn't typed out yet but the game was over. The formality of the typing out is important and ideally I'd be all over that. But it's not so important as the denying of a clear cut victory in the MSL finals. And those are your options. Option 1, say "sorry Flash, I know you weren't planning to type out for another 20 seconds but that's the way it is". Option 2, say "sorry JaeDong, you gotta do over, better hope that build works twice lol".

The choice seems pretty clear cut to me.


Let him play on a proleague map then, you'd think that with WL coming up they have builds prepared for those.

To me, the formality is what's important because it's the FINALS. It should be uncontested, and leave us with an undisputed better player. That's not what we got, especially with game 4 being what it was.

You honestly think it'd be less contested if JD won a game in all but name (as he did in game 3) and then had it taken away? Really? Imagine if Flash won game 3 then JD won game 4 and Flash won game 5. Everyone would know that it should have been 3-1. There would still be no doubt that JD won the original game 3, just as there is no doubt about it now. The difference is that it cost him the series.

I don't get how you can say that in order to make the winner less disputed you should take away a win from a player. Someone had to get something. Flash getting a regame would be way more disputable (such as the 3-2 win situation I mentioned above) than this was.


Flash getting a regame wouldn't have led to the hour-long delay and his shaky game 4 performance after seeing his dad erupt at Kespa/MBC. It would have been disputed, no doubt, but not as much as this. No way.


Tell me why wouldnt Oz rage as hard as KT did?
Snow - future of protoss! :) Nada = baller
AoN.Warrior-350-
Profile Joined December 2008
United States147 Posts
January 24 2010 00:10 GMT
#56
Has anyone tried this yet?
Tien
Profile Joined January 2003
Russian Federation4447 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-24 00:14:26
January 24 2010 00:11 GMT
#57
Could be 2 science vessels, could be 2 dropships.


BUT, if it is 2 dropships, the logic makes no sense.

Flash has been spending the last 2 minutes desperately trying to destroy 7 expo, why make 2 dropships instead of 2 vessels?

Making 2 dropships would mean his attempt to crush 7 was out the window, meaning he had given up trying to break 7.


That means, at the moment he begins production of those 2 dropships, he would also have had to realize he'd have to give up trying to attack 7. But that makes no sense since at the time of starport production for those 2 units, he was throwing everything he had at 7.


2 dropships then don't make sense.



And IF there WERE 2 dropships. This puts Jaedong in a better position. Vessel count stays at 3-4 with low energy, and Jaedong can thus muster a force to crush the 9 oclock expo.

Plus those 2 dropships would have to load up every remaining marine + medic and fly across the map to try and disrupt the 3 oclock expo or the main, while leaving the 9 oclock expo completely unreinforced and exposed for the next minute.

There's no logic to it.
We decide our own destiny
jalstar
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States8198 Posts
January 24 2010 00:13 GMT
#58
I think if it had been 2 dropships or something that would have let Flash get back in then Flash would have told someone about it, instead he seemed to take the defeat, he wasn't the one arguing, it was HOT-Forever, who only saw the cast and is a KT coach, and Flash's dad who probably doesn't know much about SC.
haxorz
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States138 Posts
January 24 2010 00:14 GMT
#59
On January 24 2010 09:10 AoN.Warrior-350- wrote:
Has anyone tried this yet?


I get the error message "The game creator closed all available spots!" when I try to join the game from my other computer. Anyone know what I am doing wrong?
And theres the GG.
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States44283 Posts
January 24 2010 00:18 GMT
#60
On January 24 2010 09:14 haxorz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 24 2010 09:10 AoN.Warrior-350- wrote:
Has anyone tried this yet?


I get the error message "The game creator closed all available spots!" when I try to join the game from my other computer. Anyone know what I am doing wrong?

We're working on that.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
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