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Reality (Ret/Progaming) - Page 16

Forum Index > BW General
617 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 14 15 16 17 18 31 Next All
Rekrul
Profile Blog Joined November 2002
Korea (South)17174 Posts
December 28 2009 12:13 GMT
#301
LOOOOOOOOL
why so 진지해?
JohnColtrane
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Australia4813 Posts
December 28 2009 12:17 GMT
#302
haha
HEY MEYT
DoX.)
Profile Joined December 2008
Singapore6164 Posts
December 28 2009 12:19 GMT
#303
On December 28 2009 21:12 IdrA wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 28 2009 20:49 Elroi wrote:
On December 28 2009 18:34 jiabung wrote:
On December 28 2009 18:06 ghostWriter wrote:
On December 28 2009 18:01 errol1001 wrote:
On December 28 2009 16:33 ghostWriter wrote:
On December 28 2009 08:25 Xiphos wrote:
But to be honest, becoming a doctor probably takes less effort than a Progamer


uh not really LOL


Yeah, this isn't a case of effort. It's talent, definitely takes far more talent to be a progamer. Some of the ones that do become progamers probably do so with less effort than becoming a doctor. But far more people could become doctors than progamers.


LOL
yeah because it's so hard to play games compared to saving lives right?
Try doing a residency, the hours will make your progaming schedule look easy. And if you lose a game, who gives a shit? Fuck up in the hospital and someone can lose their life.


Making it in progaming is probably more talent-based, while making it as a doctor is probably more based on effort. I mean, pretty much any asian parent knows their kid can be a doctor or lawyer with enough effort ,which is why they push their kids to follow such careers with high yield and high success rate provided they give enough effort.

Obviously progaming requires tremendous dedication and effort as well, but without talent you aren't going to make it, while I think that most people can become a doctor if they just decide on that career path and put enough effort into making it happen. So yeah, far more people could become doctors than progamers.



I mean, I think Dark Elf from CJ became a lawyer in about 4 years after quitting progaming.

darkelf left cj less than a year ago and he played a match for airforce an hour ago

oh my god
Tomcat
Profile Joined November 2002
Romania136 Posts
December 28 2009 12:19 GMT
#304
TBH, I didn't really need to read a huge wall-of-text type dissertation like this to realize the cold truth about progaming in Korea. What, did everyone think that the 15 hours a day, 7 days a week training schedule that came up all to often in topics around here was just a funny story ?

Besides, why the hell would you want to slave away in one of these modern-day labour camps ? It might suit the Asian style, but not the rest of the world.

SC1 is prolly gonna be over soon anyway and SC2 will level the playing field more or less. Foreigners will NEVER hit it big with SC1. Accept that and move on. Sure, you can rake in some cash winning some nice foreign leagues, but if you want SC to be your main source of income, you're in for a lot of disappointment.

You want to make easy money, better go play poker. I mean, I'm not ignorant, I'm all for setting a goal and striving to attain it, but like many have already pointed out, you have to know your limits.
Putting your entire life for something unattainable (and it is so these days) is not a wise decision.

Respect to Nony and Ret for not letting themselves get brainwashed by those silly Koreans.
Integra
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Sweden5626 Posts
December 28 2009 12:20 GMT
#305
On December 28 2009 21:12 IdrA wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 28 2009 20:49 Elroi wrote:
On December 28 2009 18:34 jiabung wrote:
On December 28 2009 18:06 ghostWriter wrote:
On December 28 2009 18:01 errol1001 wrote:
On December 28 2009 16:33 ghostWriter wrote:
On December 28 2009 08:25 Xiphos wrote:
But to be honest, becoming a doctor probably takes less effort than a Progamer


uh not really LOL


Yeah, this isn't a case of effort. It's talent, definitely takes far more talent to be a progamer. Some of the ones that do become progamers probably do so with less effort than becoming a doctor. But far more people could become doctors than progamers.


LOL
yeah because it's so hard to play games compared to saving lives right?
Try doing a residency, the hours will make your progaming schedule look easy. And if you lose a game, who gives a shit? Fuck up in the hospital and someone can lose their life.


Making it in progaming is probably more talent-based, while making it as a doctor is probably more based on effort. I mean, pretty much any asian parent knows their kid can be a doctor or lawyer with enough effort ,which is why they push their kids to follow such careers with high yield and high success rate provided they give enough effort.

Obviously progaming requires tremendous dedication and effort as well, but without talent you aren't going to make it, while I think that most people can become a doctor if they just decide on that career path and put enough effort into making it happen. So yeah, far more people could become doctors than progamers.



I mean, I think Dark Elf from CJ became a lawyer in about 4 years after quitting progaming.

darkelf left cj less than a year ago and he played a match for airforce an hour ago


This made my day.
"Dark Pleasure" | | I survived the Locust war of May 3, 2014
Badjas
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Netherlands2038 Posts
December 28 2009 12:33 GMT
#306
On December 28 2009 21:12 IdrA wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 28 2009 20:49 Elroi wrote:
On December 28 2009 18:34 jiabung wrote:
On December 28 2009 18:06 ghostWriter wrote:
On December 28 2009 18:01 errol1001 wrote:
On December 28 2009 16:33 ghostWriter wrote:
On December 28 2009 08:25 Xiphos wrote:
But to be honest, becoming a doctor probably takes less effort than a Progamer


uh not really LOL


Yeah, this isn't a case of effort. It's talent, definitely takes far more talent to be a progamer. Some of the ones that do become progamers probably do so with less effort than becoming a doctor. But far more people could become doctors than progamers.


LOL
yeah because it's so hard to play games compared to saving lives right?
Try doing a residency, the hours will make your progaming schedule look easy. And if you lose a game, who gives a shit? Fuck up in the hospital and someone can lose their life.


Making it in progaming is probably more talent-based, while making it as a doctor is probably more based on effort. I mean, pretty much any asian parent knows their kid can be a doctor or lawyer with enough effort ,which is why they push their kids to follow such careers with high yield and high success rate provided they give enough effort.

Obviously progaming requires tremendous dedication and effort as well, but without talent you aren't going to make it, while I think that most people can become a doctor if they just decide on that career path and put enough effort into making it happen. So yeah, far more people could become doctors than progamers.



I mean, I think Dark Elf from CJ became a lawyer in about 4 years after quitting progaming.

darkelf left cj less than a year ago and he played a match for airforce an hour ago

Clearly, Dark Elf is the secret identity of a Seoul based business lawyer. On regular days he spends his time defending people in court and filing paperwork. Thanking his wife for dinner. Watch the news. But when you least expect it, he dashes to the nearest phone booth or programer house toilet, dons his Airforce Ace tights, and takes on the forces of evil that roam the BW pro scene!
I <3 the internet, I <3 you
PobTheCad
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
Australia893 Posts
December 28 2009 12:36 GMT
#307
On December 28 2009 21:19 Tomcat wrote:
You want to make easy money, better go play poker. I mean, I'm not ignorant, I'm all for setting a goal and striving to attain it, but like many have already pointed out, you have to know your limits.
Putting your entire life for something unattainable (and it is so these days) is not a wise decision.

how many people lose money compared to make money in poker

simple economics?
Once again back is the incredible!
torm3ntin
Profile Joined October 2009
Brazil2534 Posts
December 28 2009 12:49 GMT
#308
Sh1t. I'm sad for ret. I like him, especially his streams. It's sad to see a dream crushed into peaces.
GL for him in every decision he takes.

As everyone said before props to IdrA for living in a hell like that.
Grubby and Ret fan, but a TERRAN player :D
[X]Ken_D
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
United States4653 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-28 12:55:06
December 28 2009 12:50 GMT
#309
Ouch. The truth is brutal.

Rekrul keeping it real
[X]Domain - I just do the website. Nothing more.
white
Profile Joined August 2009
Korea (North)62 Posts
December 28 2009 12:59 GMT
#310
On December 28 2009 06:37 Rekrul wrote:
Now I'm 104 kgs the fattest I've ever been in my life and believe me I can feel a huge difference in the way I am treated in general. Not that I give a fuck because I'm mother fucking rekrul


Hell yeah

I know people like Artosis like to advocate that you have to play starcraft1 a lot to improve your chances of becoming good at starcraft2. But he's dead wrong...he not exactly an unintelligent person, but sometimes he has mental blocks that cause him to do stupid things like play only one race for 11 years straight instead of dabbling a little in zerg or toss.


Haha!
Things in the Democratic People's Republic of Korea are hard, as always....
haduken
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
Australia8267 Posts
December 28 2009 13:12 GMT
#311
On December 28 2009 18:47 TeWy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 28 2009 17:44 haduken wrote:
On December 28 2009 15:59 Cambium wrote:
On December 28 2009 15:37 QibingZero wrote:
On December 28 2009 14:47 HazMat wrote:
Why is everyone assuming Starcraft2 will become an E-sport?


It will be, but then again even wc3 (with all of it's serious drawbacks, imbalances and stagnant map pool) is an esport.

But yeah, I don't get the general feeling of 'SC2 will save us all!' that many posters have taken up over the past year or so either. I certainly don't think it will replace SC in Korea anytime soon, if ever. New games are great, but you need something really fucking amazing to replace the most skill-based and balanced RTS of all time.


SC2 will replace SC as long as the game is passable and the sponsors are willing to make the switch. Both points are quite easily satisfiable if you ask me.


Third point. The Koreans need to dominate the game and dominate it quickly.

Like it or not, majority of e-sport sponsors and audiences are in South Korea.

War3 failed because no Korean ever dominated it early on. Even Moon failed at WCG multiple times .


Your post just shows your complete ignorance of the e-sport world.

Majority of SC sponsors and audiences are Koreans. The other e-sport audiences are completly game-dependant (like europe-china for War3 and europe-america for CS) and the majority of sponsors are americans (related to the audience).
Second point, War3 failed in Korea because Koreans prefered SC (not because Moon didn't dominate the scene, that's a complete non-sense he basically won everything exept WCG), however, it didn't just "fail", War3 succeeded in Europe and particulary in China and permitted the creation of the well known "Dota" mode.

The only thing that SC2 needs in order to be successful is a huge community attracting sponsors.
If it can be half or 1/3 as successful as what SC is in Korea, everywhere else, I guess it would be fine and even way better than the current situation.


I was just speculating.

Moon was successful but he was a no body at the start. I'm talking about pre frozen scene. Koreans did not win anything major until years later and when that happened, it was the same group of players. The game never 'replaced' Starcraft in Korea.

We can not compare CS, War3 with SC. SC is the most mature developed e-sport in the world.

Every other game have tournaments but their sponsors are random and pretty much concentrate on the few 'grand slams' every year. It's not as professional as Starcraft which pretty much have the backing of the entire Korean corporates.

Europe/American e-sport is successful? Please.

Chinese e-sport had a great future but it went to shits when the government banned it on TV.

There are legions of war3 players in China due to one reason and one reason only. Sky won 2 WCGs and college kids see it as something that they can be good at. Sad but true. I wonder how popular starcraft will be if Koreans keep getting smashed in WCG. Again, pure speculation, but I think people understand my point.

For SC2 to be successful, it will have to replace BW. Simple as that, there is no way around it as they are competing against the same group of players and fans.



Rillanon.au
KizZBG
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
u gotta skate8152 Posts
December 28 2009 13:16 GMT
#312
On December 28 2009 21:12 IdrA wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 28 2009 20:49 Elroi wrote:
On December 28 2009 18:34 jiabung wrote:
On December 28 2009 18:06 ghostWriter wrote:
On December 28 2009 18:01 errol1001 wrote:
On December 28 2009 16:33 ghostWriter wrote:
On December 28 2009 08:25 Xiphos wrote:
But to be honest, becoming a doctor probably takes less effort than a Progamer


uh not really LOL


Yeah, this isn't a case of effort. It's talent, definitely takes far more talent to be a progamer. Some of the ones that do become progamers probably do so with less effort than becoming a doctor. But far more people could become doctors than progamers.


LOL
yeah because it's so hard to play games compared to saving lives right?
Try doing a residency, the hours will make your progaming schedule look easy. And if you lose a game, who gives a shit? Fuck up in the hospital and someone can lose their life.


Making it in progaming is probably more talent-based, while making it as a doctor is probably more based on effort. I mean, pretty much any asian parent knows their kid can be a doctor or lawyer with enough effort ,which is why they push their kids to follow such careers with high yield and high success rate provided they give enough effort.

Obviously progaming requires tremendous dedication and effort as well, but without talent you aren't going to make it, while I think that most people can become a doctor if they just decide on that career path and put enough effort into making it happen. So yeah, far more people could become doctors than progamers.



I mean, I think Dark Elf from CJ became a lawyer in about 4 years after quitting progaming.

darkelf left cj less than a year ago and he played a match for airforce an hour ago


[image loading]
eSTRO for life | #2 Sea.Really fan! | #1 GosI[Flying] fan! | Clide - best SC2 terran!
Altair
Profile Joined August 2009
243 Posts
December 28 2009 13:17 GMT
#313
On December 28 2009 06:44 Weasel- wrote:
I think I've learned more about Korean Starcraft in this one post than I have in the past 6 months reading stuff on TL.

+1
Creationism
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
China505 Posts
December 28 2009 13:26 GMT
#314
On December 28 2009 22:17 Altair wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 28 2009 06:44 Weasel- wrote:
I think I've learned more about Korean Starcraft in this one post than I have in the past 6 months reading stuff on TL.

+1

Cuz what happens here is a TV-show, entertainment. You dont actually watch House and go OMFG, that's how a hospital works. HE'S GOT LUPIS.
Same idea here, its a show here, jus enjoy it, and please for the love of god don't think you can be a progamer...
The hoi polloi is the plague upon the world.
edahl
Profile Joined February 2008
Norway483 Posts
December 28 2009 13:27 GMT
#315
On December 28 2009 14:06 TeWy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 28 2009 12:54 toopham wrote:
All you guys are fuking bandwagon jumpers.
Rekrul post something bad about estro and the koreans and about ret and you all agree.

When I posted something bad about estro and how badly they treated ret and how Estro coaching suck balls, motherfuckers tell me I should "blog it" or that I am very wrong and shouldn't be saying those things against Estro because they've done so much for foreigners.

NeverGG even tell me to watch what I say because Estro coaches lurk this forum.
And then I get my thread closed because I am a nobody making a post.

It seems like the only way you can make a thread around here is if you're well known.

it's just fucking sad.


"Thou shall respect forum veterans".


It is quite obvious, and it has even been proofed, that practicing too much a real sport is a bad thing. The physical drawbacks are obvious to everyone.

E-sports induce some physical backwards too, but most of them are psychological, they're not obvious and they're perceived as a personal weakness despite the fact that the neurotransmitters involved are the same as those involved in a strain for example...
It gives the illusion that "the more practice you can get the better it is", that is incorrect, that is just plain wrong... Sure for some players it is almost true but not for everyone, most of them are actually underperforming when fallowing a strict schedule and excessive training hours.
Notice how the CS WMF team can't hold a handle to FnATIC and SK gaming, or how Moon who won nearly 300 000 dollars of prize monney in 2007-2008 didn't win any single tournament soon after he joined WMF.

Wtf guys... practicing 10-12 hours a day 7days/7 ? Is that necessarily better than 8 hours a day with a day off ? No wonder why 95% of the SC pros suddenly crash after 2 years at the top…

Be all certain that SK, MYM, WE (chinese), MOUZ, FNATIC, mb even EG, will all have a prestigious SC2 squad soon after its release. Be also sure that a lot of foreign tournaments/leagues will be created, and I know that it might sound crazy to some of you, but they will allow you to say "gl hf" along with VV without disqualifying you.

Koreans are the pionneers of the E-sport, that is a fact, but their way of adapting it is tightly linked to their culture and the stupidity of their E-sport managers (aka kespa).
Their way of dealing with it is not a model that we should blindly copy.

These are exactly my thoughts on the subject. Living a life where you branch out, learn different skills, read books, meet people, ... is the only way you can really say you tried. Excessive training like that is called excessive for a reason.
It may work for Korea because they think it does, but if you consider the skill of a lot of top foreign gamers, they have come pretty bloody far with almost no framework and maybe 3 hours practice. A work day (everywhere other than Korea it seems) is about 6-8 hours long, and there is a reason it's 6-8 hours long and not 12+.
meeple
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
Canada10211 Posts
December 28 2009 13:28 GMT
#316
This definitely puts IdrA in a new light. Not many people can live in such conditions for so long. I hope ret sticks it out and doesn't give up, but at the same time it must be demoralizing to go through all that and be met with little/no success. Good luck in whatever you do ret
MorroW
Profile Joined August 2008
Sweden3522 Posts
December 28 2009 14:21 GMT
#317
you will improve faster and be more motivated if the environment you are in is friendly and is ready to help you to maximize your improvement
in school or at least in my school i could always ask teachers for special things like "i wanna listen to the book instead of read it" etc and they would accept
all teachers had the same attitude, "whatever makes it better for u to improve"
but in korea i dont think they know about this method since they dont let players adapt at all which i find sad, a foreigner pro-team in would be a really cool idea but then again sc2 is comming to ggnore sc1
Progamerpls no copy pasterino
AstraBoy
Profile Joined August 2006
Peru363 Posts
December 28 2009 14:26 GMT
#318
lol
come on the guy is 24!!!! he must be looking for a GF and get married, have his own house, a profession, etc
not trying to be pro at a video game OMFG O_O

24 !!!!!
Ohjay
Profile Joined October 2009
Germany83 Posts
December 28 2009 14:32 GMT
#319
If I was rich I would invest some $$$ for a foreign pro team
UlyssesPro
Profile Joined September 2009
United States4 Posts
December 28 2009 14:36 GMT
#320
I don't mean to be picky, but I don't think this piece qualifies as an essay. Usually an essay takes the reader on a "journey towards understanding", that is, it helps us follow the path the author took to come to a greater understanding of whatever it is he or she is writing about.

This piece carries little to no evidence of the author's assumptions about either Korean culture or Korean sociology and seems highly generalize. For Example

"Koreans are fucking xenophobic as fuck. They are not happy go lucky to foreigners at all "

Could we not say the exact same about Americans? Consider recent American attitude toward Hispanic immigrants / laborers etc. Mainstream news would have us believe they are stealing jobs and running drugs, both of which are simply 100 percent overgeneralized and oversimplified.

I hope TL reconsiders what it chooses to feature on the homepage in the future.
Armies cannot stop an idea whose time has come.
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