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On December 28 2009 14:47 HazMat wrote:
Why is everyone assuming Starcraft2 will become an E-sport?
It will be, but then again even wc3 (with all of it's serious drawbacks, imbalances and stagnant map pool) is an esport.
But yeah, I don't get the general feeling of 'SC2 will save us all!' that many posters have taken up over the past year or so either. I certainly don't think it will replace SC in Korea anytime soon, if ever. New games are great, but you need something really fucking amazing to replace the most skill-based and balanced RTS of all time.
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Russian Federation410 Posts
Ret came to Korea to do one thing, one thing only. It's a tall order, but Ret's commitment to the cause shouldn't have stopped at packing things and buying a plane ticket.
Abiding to eSTRO's training methods and regiment is what Ret should've done first, next step being slowly learning to communicate and bonding with Korean players and getting in some real practice time. Those basic principles apply to anybody willing to join any new community, be it a sports team (in this case e-sports), a job collective or even as simple as a new living location. (fascinating stuff here)
Obviously we don't know every detail of Ret - eSTRO relationship, as Rekrul for some reason forgot to put a 2nd fact into his politician's speech after "Fat people are treated differently/worse". As groundbreaking as that sounds, I'm sure everyone could asses the situation more carefully if Ret or Artosis were to speak details, rather than blaming team training regiment, diet, internal rules and "cultural differences". Because everybody involved chose the politician's approach, you get what you get: one side blaming eSTRO, second falling out on Ret, third trying to enlighten the crown on how difficult it is playing by somebody else's rules.
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Interesting read... I wasn't aware of all these things and now regret alot of comments that I've made...
So, when are we gonna see a pro team for people speaking english only? . . . And a league where kespa doesn't have the power?
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On December 28 2009 15:37 QibingZero wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2009 14:47 HazMat wrote:
Why is everyone assuming Starcraft2 will become an E-sport? It will be, but then again even wc3 (with all of it's serious drawbacks, imbalances and stagnant map pool) is an esport. But yeah, I don't get the general feeling of 'SC2 will save us all!' that many posters have taken up over the past year or so either. I certainly don't think it will replace SC in Korea anytime soon, if ever. New games are great, but you need something really fucking amazing to replace the most skill-based and balanced RTS of all time.
SC2 will replace SC as long as the game is passable and the sponsors are willing to make the switch. Both points are quite easily satisfiable if you ask me.
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On December 28 2009 15:52 XsebT wrote:
Interesting read... I wasn't aware of all these things and now regret alot of comments that I've made...
So, when are we gonna see a pro team for people speaking english only? . . . And a league where kespa doesn't have the power?
Only thing you need for that is a huge foreign community (logically containing some very good players) to attract the sponsors.
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how do you invite someone from another country who doesn't know ZvZ to your professional team? how can you not give proper support to that same person? they left him out in the streets in korea, the people who made him live an ilusion... it wasn't only ret's decision to go to another country, the staff is also involved in the process.
all that is happening to ret and all what rekrul said about korean people makes me feel like not watching korean e-sports anymore. anything related to korea tbh.
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On December 28 2009 08:25 Xiphos wrote:
But to be honest, becoming a doctor probably takes less effort than a Progamer
uh not really LOL
Anyway, it seems that many of the posters here are applying their standards to another society and another culture, which is probably a bad idea. Most of the posters here are from America, which was built on the backs of immigrants. It's a place where people from all over the world live next door to one another, especially in big cities like San Francisco, Chicago, Boston, New York, etc. etc. Korea on the other hand is a nation filled with an overwhelming majority of Koreans. The demographics have been like that for centuries and everyone has the same culture, same language, etc. You can't just go to a different country and expect to be accepted instantly. Humans have a natural preponderance towards labeling themselves and associating themselves with groups for protection. If you look different, know very little, if anything at all about the culture, and don't even speak the language at a conversational level, you cannot possibly expect to be welcomed with open arms. You also can't expect a nation like Korea to be as progressive as the United States, which just a few decades ago disallowed blacks from attending the same schools, shopping at the same stores or even drinking at the same water fountain. Even now, race is still a huge issue, except that now people try to circumvent it by attempting to pretend that differences don't exist (they do).
Progaming takes a lot of effort and it's almost impossible to get anywhere. It's all nice to watch people like Jaedong or Bisu rock the scene for a few weeks but we don't get to see what's behind all the supposed glamor of winning games or even tournaments. It's easy to see hyuk or fbh and demean their playing style and call them idiots or noobs when they lose. But these are the guys that have the skills to be televised; there are tons of people stuck on the B team or whatever that could probably easily dominate iccup, but will never get the chance to shine and retire before they even get a chance to make their name known.
If you aren't willing to put in the work and the effort necessary, don't bother. The team is there for the team, not for the individual. If you want to gain skill, make sure you're good and ready. If you fly out to Korea, you're the one that's looking to gain; it's not the team's job to make sure that you're adjusting well and to baby you every step of the way. There are hundreds of kids wanting to be progamers who are just as good, if not better, than you that have the advantage of actually being able to understand what's being said to them.
On December 28 2009 14:29 toopham wrote:if you guys wanna see my epic rant that got closed here it is http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=104376If your arguement is that what I posted was wrong so therefore it should be closed then you're a fucking retard. This is a forum, not wikipedia. I get to post how I feel about a certain matter. And if you disagree then you have the right to post something back telling me I am wrong and I will have no problem with it. but to say I am wrong, I should "blog it", then close my thread is pretty pathetic. This is not a forum anymore. More like "Post what we want to hear/discuss or we will close it".
Your epic rant ROFL
More like your stupid post from two months with a terrible title that everyone disagreed with and also happened to be written in terrible English. When there are red lines below your words, it means that you probably spelled it wrong. A handy tip: if you right click, it gives you suggestions for the proper spelling which would be nice since it would help your posts be worth reading, despite your ridiculous opinions.
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Rekrul constantly telling us that we don't know what the fuck is going on just doesn't seem so right to me. Is he ret's BFF? Does he know exactly what ret experienced? He also mentions ret, Idra, and Nony's personality types. I'm pretty sure he don't know any of them well enough to make those kinds of claims about them. I'm pretty sure ret, Idra, and Nony are the only ones who can tell their story and their experiences in aspiring to be a progamer in Korea. This isn't reality, this is speculation from Rekrul. Just because he attempted the same thing and went to Korea doesn't mean the circumstances are the same and you can speak for others who came after.
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On December 28 2009 17:02 RyanS wrote:
Rekrul constantly telling us that we don't know what the fuck is going on just doesn't seem so right to me. Is he ret's BFF? Does he know exactly what ret experienced? He also mentions ret, Idra, and Nony's personality types. I'm pretty sure he don't know any of them well enough to make those kinds of claims about them. I'm pretty sure ret, Idra, and Nony are the only ones who can tell their story and their experiences in aspiring to be a progamer in Korea. This isn't reality, this is speculation from Rekrul. Just because he attempted the same thing and went to Korea doesn't mean the circumstances are the same and you can speak for others who came after.
He definitely knows what Ret has experienced. If I remember correctly, he was a part of POS (the old MBC).
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On December 28 2009 17:02 RyanS wrote:
Rekrul constantly telling us that we don't know what the fuck is going on just doesn't seem so right to me. Is he ret's BFF? Does he know exactly what ret experienced? He also mentions ret, Idra, and Nony's personality types. I'm pretty sure he don't know any of them well enough to make those kinds of claims about them. I'm pretty sure ret, Idra, and Nony are the only ones who can tell their story and their experiences in aspiring to be a progamer in Korea. This isn't reality, this is speculation from Rekrul. Just because he attempted the same thing and went to Korea doesn't mean the circumstances are the same and you can speak for others who came after.
I will bet everything I own, have owned, and ever will own that Idra and Nony have completely different sets of priorities and that Idra's are much more well-suited to being a progamer in Korea.
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On December 28 2009 17:10 Pokeball wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2009 17:02 RyanS wrote:
Rekrul constantly telling us that we don't know what the fuck is going on just doesn't seem so right to me. Is he ret's BFF? Does he know exactly what ret experienced? He also mentions ret, Idra, and Nony's personality types. I'm pretty sure he don't know any of them well enough to make those kinds of claims about them. I'm pretty sure ret, Idra, and Nony are the only ones who can tell their story and their experiences in aspiring to be a progamer in Korea. This isn't reality, this is speculation from Rekrul. Just because he attempted the same thing and went to Korea doesn't mean the circumstances are the same and you can speak for others who came after. He definitely knows what Ret has experienced. If I remember correctly, he was a part of POS (the old MBC).
He was apart of Hexatron, Assem and Leg were on POS before moving to Hexatron.
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On December 28 2009 17:02 RyanS wrote:
Rekrul constantly telling us that we don't know what the fuck is going on just doesn't seem so right to me. Is he ret's BFF? Does he know exactly what ret experienced? He also mentions ret, Idra, and Nony's personality types. I'm pretty sure he don't know any of them well enough to make those kinds of claims about them. I'm pretty sure ret, Idra, and Nony are the only ones who can tell their story and their experiences in aspiring to be a progamer in Korea. This isn't reality, this is speculation from Rekrul. Just because he attempted the same thing and went to Korea doesn't mean the circumstances are the same and you can speak for others who came after.
I'm sure that you are more familiar with both Ret and Rekrul than anyone else. By all means, please grace us with a post that counters Rekrul's points, rather than casting aspersions using vague accusations.
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sry, but stop crying about the difficulty of learning korean...
If you want to live and 'work' there learn the fucking language... And the difficulty of it is no excuse...
half year spending like 20-25 hours a week is more then enough to learn enough korean to be able to basic communincate and make topic related detailed conversations (if you want to play SC there, then you will learn all the important things for that easily and quickly... so talking about reps should be no prob at all)
You will by far not speak great Korean, but enough for basic stuff and for whatever you focus on.
But just jumping in without any preps or plan is not so great...
And yes, i tried and did it, while studying Baduk meanwhile in korea (another hopeless task for a westerner :D) 
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good post rekrul
personally i think it's too late in SC's cycle to attempt the jump to progamer level
best to just wait till sc2 is out then try with that
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On December 28 2009 15:59 Cambium wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2009 15:37 QibingZero wrote:On December 28 2009 14:47 HazMat wrote:
Why is everyone assuming Starcraft2 will become an E-sport? It will be, but then again even wc3 (with all of it's serious drawbacks, imbalances and stagnant map pool) is an esport. But yeah, I don't get the general feeling of 'SC2 will save us all!' that many posters have taken up over the past year or so either. I certainly don't think it will replace SC in Korea anytime soon, if ever. New games are great, but you need something really fucking amazing to replace the most skill-based and balanced RTS of all time. SC2 will replace SC as long as the game is passable and the sponsors are willing to make the switch. Both points are quite easily satisfiable if you ask me.
Third point. The Koreans need to dominate the game and dominate it quickly.
Like it or not, majority of e-sport sponsors and audiences are in South Korea.
War3 failed because no Korean ever dominated it early on. Even Moon failed at WCG multiple times .
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Oh ret  Ret is such a nice guy that it is basically impossible not to like him. Thus sadness for him is sadness for me. But I'm sure he will get through it and be super-pro at life. Thanks Rekrul for this article. It put a lot of this stuffs in context. <3 Ret, and thx Rek.
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On December 28 2009 16:33 ghostWriter wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2009 08:25 Xiphos wrote:
But to be honest, becoming a doctor probably takes less effort than a Progamer uh not really LOL
Yeah, this isn't a case of effort. It's talent, definitely takes far more talent to be a progamer. Some of the ones that do become progamers probably do so with less effort than becoming a doctor. But far more people could become doctors than progamers.
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gotta love the insider news. thanks
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On December 28 2009 18:01 errol1001 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2009 16:33 ghostWriter wrote:On December 28 2009 08:25 Xiphos wrote:
But to be honest, becoming a doctor probably takes less effort than a Progamer uh not really LOL Yeah, this isn't a case of effort. It's talent, definitely takes far more talent to be a progamer. Some of the ones that do become progamers probably do so with less effort than becoming a doctor. But far more people could become doctors than progamers.
LOL
yeah because it's so hard to play games compared to saving lives right?
Try doing a residency, the hours will make your progaming schedule look easy. And if you lose a game, who gives a shit? Fuck up in the hospital and someone can lose their life.
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EPT
