EPTArchon vs Ultralisk - Page 3
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MuffinDude
United States3837 Posts
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DarthThienAn
United States2734 Posts
On November 27 2009 13:11 zergnewb wrote: Yeah but it feels like archons die easier. Plus one EMP and it is completely useless. Nothing I can think of that renders an Ultra completely useless immediately besides maelstrom, which doesn't last long, and mind control, but that effects archons the same. Since when do Terrans appear in a PvZ / ZvP? ... o.O unless it's like 2v2 or something. In any case, no need to complicate things by pulling terran into the argument. | ||
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blahman3344
United States2015 Posts
On November 27 2009 11:30 lone_hydra wrote: In response to the OP saying it is based on who gets the first hit: Archon always gets first hit it has range well kidna depended on the angle for me, there were times the archon didnt attack until after the ultra hit first | ||
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GreEny K
Germany7312 Posts
On November 27 2009 10:28 Funnytoss wrote: ... what's the point? You will almost never have this sort of 1 on 1 situation, largely because these two units should never be engaging each other head-on. Ideally Archons would be sitting behind Ultras and doing massive splash damage. uh... Have you ever seen late game zvp when the Z has tons of gas? This situation happens more than you think. And what are you ttalking about when you say sitting behind the ultras? On November 27 2009 10:28 SoulMarine wrote: cool story bro. USER PERM BANNED FOR THIS POST AND OTHERS LIKE IT Damn that is tough luck right there. | ||
Mystlord
United States10264 Posts
Poll: Useless thread? (Vote): Yes (Vote): No (Vote): We already have 50 billion threads on this (Vote): Why do we care? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=80825 Honestly use the search function... | ||
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zergnewb
United States816 Posts
On November 27 2009 14:12 DarthThienAn wrote: Since when do Terrans appear in a PvZ / ZvP? ... o.O unless it's like 2v2 or something. In any case, no need to complicate things by pulling terran into the argument. Well it isn't exactly about who wins archons vs ultra. Those statements are about which unit is more useful. | ||
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okum
France5778 Posts
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ArC_man
United States2798 Posts
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FragKrag
United States11554 Posts
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dangots0ul
United States919 Posts
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zgl
United States1055 Posts
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boredcouch
United States110 Posts
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29 fps
United States5725 Posts
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FragKrag
United States11554 Posts
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On November 27 2009 13:01 kaleidoscope wrote: Ultra > Archon in swarms Archons > Ultras with splash (note the plural) Ultra > Archon in economic aspect (resources required + occupying 2 gateway) Conclusion: Archons > Ultras (splash) To the OP, I think you focused it too much on a 1on1 aspect. That fight is unrealistic and kind of useless to be honest. Archons gain their strength in larger numbers. The splash damage is what makes them a really hard unit to contend with in critical mass for Zerg. The other thing I would like to note (and why I chose to quote this guy) Gas is kind of an unlimited resource in a sense. This is one of the reasons when I drop a protoss' main I aim for the nex as well as upgrades and tech. Depending on how much longer a game lasts that extra depleted geyser could make a pretty big difference in the how many Archon's you end up dealing with depending on how much longer the game ends up lasting. I understand this situation is limited to the late game, however we are talking about Archon effectiveness in critical mass, which is usually attained late game where gas is an unlimited resource, while minerals eventually get to the point where you are struggling for it. I find a lot of occasions as Zerg where all of a sudden I have 2500 gas and just can't seem to find the minerals, it usually is because I have around 5 gas in motion, while only 1-3 bases actually have minerals left in them. So in that sense, I think Archon's are REALLY good for bolstering a Protoss army late game because of how cheap they are mineral wise, as well as them being stormers first which are very effective units in itself. When you struggle for minerals you have to focus on how to have patients and use that unlimited gas reserve. Its where patients really kicks in and can win a game for you. As was mentioned before, the Archon has Splash, range, and can hit air. The only major counter to it is Dark Swarm and ultra or hypothetically guardian ultra (if stormers don't exist, which they obviously will) While Ultra's can lose to air, are weak against Reavers and Protoss generally has a decent amount of counters for an admittedly very strong unit. I summarize, basically looking at which one is stronger in a 1on1 fight is completely pointless. Each one is situationally very strong in its own regard. To supplyment a mid game army they are both very powerful, however ultras don't have a critical mass point while Archon's essentially do. Archons are also a lower tier then Ultras which also changes how we can accurately gauge and compare them. I think one fair thing to say, the more gas a map has the more friendly it is for a Protoss in ZvP because it tends to allow much larger Archon and gas unit counts which favors Protoss in ZvP. An example of a map like that would be Rpoint or Gaia with really high gas counts and where Archons are used in huge numbers and big fights. | ||
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n3m0
Portugal247 Posts
Zerglings are the ones doing the most damage in a late game confront. Ultras are there basically to absorve damage :p | ||
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NiGoL
1868 Posts
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
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Abyzou
Sweden209 Posts
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JFKWT
Singapore1442 Posts
On November 27 2009 20:51 Abyzou wrote: I thought the Archon's splash damage meant that swarm did nothing to them? only splash damage is dealt, ~5 in the edges of that blue circle thing. Dunno if larger units eat more hitboxes of that splash though. | ||
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