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From a Zerg Player Prespective, Mass Archons are quite scary. Archons tear through lings, mutas, etc. After watching a very very long game between Stork vs GGPlay (not a new game) yesterday where Stork switches over to mass archons, it had me shivering in my pants. Although some people would say that the counter for mass archons is mass hydras, there is no way that the P would not have a handful of storms available if he was able to create that many HT's. And we know Storm > Hydras. The only viable counter imo would be Ultraling
Now, look at the unit Ultralisk. Just like Archons, they are beefed up, high life units. They soak up the damage for the lings in battle, which allows every T or P player to shiver in fear whenever they see a long river of ultralings.
Which unit do you think is more effective in overall performance? This also includes their cost efficiency (Archon = 100 Mineral 300 Gas, Ultra = 200 Mineral 200 Gas) and their killing power. We are also faced to decide if Mass Ultralisk would win verse Mass Archons. One main advantage of Archons is that they can be created from useless HT's who just used up all their storms, better to have a unit than a mana-less spellcaster imo.
Poll: Ultra or Archon?
(Vote): Ultralisk
(Vote): Archon
(Vote): Cannot be Analyzed
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Archons become quite terrible if they are attacking under darkswarm.
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Calgary25980 Posts
Why? To what end is this discussion serving?
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No Dark Swarm = Archon/HT>>>Ultraling
Dark Swarm = Ultraling>>>Archon/HT
One on one, fully upgraded ultralisk beats Archon because of his armor, and 100 gas is usually worth more than 100 minerals, but that doesnt take into account the fact that you have two powerful casters before the archon, and if those tow cast at least one decent storm each, the Archon is gonna be far more cost effective.
Its very situational.
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Archons are free.
I will always remember this game of Savior versus god knows who protoss, where they mined the whole map. It was very straight forward game, lot of back and forth, equivalent number of expansions.
So, both side camping on their bank minerals, the protoss could still rely on the unlimited gaz.
Painful match to watch from a Zerg view.
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On October 23 2008 00:41 Chill wrote:
Why? To what end is this discussion serving?
Its just a light hearted discussion...its also interesting to hear what people might think about it
I agree its also very situational but Ultras have the almost perfect partner unit (lings) that are very cheap and powerful, with same running speed
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On October 23 2008 00:49 Murlox wrote:
Archons are free.
I will always remember this game of Savior versus god knows who protoss, where they mined the whole map. It was very straight forward game, lot of back and forth, equivalent number of expansions.
So, both side camping on their bank minerals, the protoss could still rely on the unlimited gaz.
Painful match to watch from a Zerg view.
You don't mean the game voted the best game of 2006, Savior vs rA on Shin Peaks, Pringles MSL?
Anyway this is kinda pointless, it all depends on how you use your units. Archons have long range, fast regen, can be made on the fly after storming, etc. If you let protoss get a full archon army, then you better surround really really well.
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Archon i'd say. If you can afford mass archons, it's pretty much the best combo PvZ.
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mass archon vs mass ultra... mass archon win b/c splash damage while ur ultras only can attack 1 at a time plus by that late of game toss is almost fully upgraded armor plasma attack. going on attack again ultra b/c of the +3 per upgrade making the archons doing 39 damage while ultra do 26.
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No one uses only ultras to fight mass archons . You place a dark swarm and archons like everything else except the reavers gets raped under it ... and BTW archons sucks vs mass hidra/lurkers .
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ultralisks because in starcraft 2 they have splash damage!~
ULTRA > ARCHONS THEN WHAT NOW FOOL?
seriously though archons because if you cant flank right splash damage makes it all the easier =(
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9070 Posts
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Archons definitely win because of splash. Ultras can't really soak up damage for lings when the splash just annihilates the lings anyway.
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REMEMBER YOUR DARKSWARM
that is all.
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United States17042 Posts
Archons cost a lot less mins, but slightly more gas.
Archons do a lot more damage than ultras
ultras have lots more armor than archons (esp at that point in the game)
ultras probably have dark swarm on their side
archons have psistorm on their side
they regen health at about the same time
ultras need lings to be effective (even amount of gas, archons > ultras in general)
zerg should have more bases to go ultra, so, once again, it counters the more min cost.
you need more ultras than you need archons (toss needs less bases).
This thread isn't that helpful for....anything.
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United States47024 Posts
On October 23 2008 01:40 GeneralStan wrote:
Archons definitely win because of splash. Ultras can't really soak up damage for lings when the splash just annihilates the lings anyway.
This is it.
Archons also have the advantage that they have slight range, meaning that zealots can block for them and minimize the damage they take (granted the argument is mass ultra vs. mass archon, but honestly, having zealots and zergilngs makes both armies more effective).
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Sweden33719 Posts
On the topic of dark swarm in PvZ vs archons, I don't know if he was THE first, but Twisted (like, the Tl.net Twisted) was definitely one of the first zerg players to use swarm vs mass archons 
Just like how rekrul/american tosses started using arbiters PvT a while before they became popular among progamers.
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EPT
