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I've been wondering for a while now whether an archon or ultralisk would win in a 1 on 1 battle, so i did what any person bored during thanksgiving beak would do: test it out.
So i went to single player and yada yada......mc a drone.....yada yada....and then i made only archons and ultralisks
so what i did was i fully upgraded both the archon and ultralisk (archon: 3,3,3 ultra: 5,3)
i did 11 battles of 1 archon vs 1 ultralisk and here were my results:
archon 5:6 ultralisk
the most important thing i noticed, though, was which of the two got the first hit.
Usually if the archon got the first hit, it won, but with about 6 hp left, whereas if the ultra got the first hit, it would win with 8 hp left. So they are about even and the deciding factor was the first hit.
i havent tried out 0 upgrades yet or different combination of upgrades, but im inclined to think that the one with higher upgrades would win with slightly higher hp
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archons are still more effective though because of splash.
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cool story bro.
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... what's the point? You will almost never have this sort of 1 on 1 situation, largely because these two units should never be engaging each other head-on. Ideally Archons would be sitting behind Ultras and doing massive splash damage.
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Well i guess most of the time Archon just dont have the 3 plasma upg up.
So definetly ultra would win. Of course, 2 Archons vs 2 Ultras, i wouldn't know.
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Archons are way cooler though. Their pimpness factor is off the radar, so despite hard numbers, always remember that archons>all.
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i knew it! my f l will hear me. thx buddy
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On November 27 2009 10:30 Schnake wrote:
Archons are way cooler though. Their pimpness factor is off the radar, so despite hard numbers, always remember that archons>all.
plus it's nal_ra's favorite unit 
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Archon vs Cattlebruiser gogogo
Also archons hit air, and are in a sense made for free if you just merge two HT whose energy has all just been used.
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Yea, but the Ultralisk will also usually have dark swarm and rape the archons.
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konadora
Singapore66145 Posts
archons always win 1v1, they even did this test on MBCGame
12 archons vs 12 ultralisks, 12 ultralisks lost
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On November 27 2009 10:39 konadora wrote:
archons always win 1v1, they even did this test on MBCGame
12 archons vs 12 ultralisks, 12 ultralisks lost
well thats cause of splash..
How about 1v1......
and ultras get the extra defence that archons cant get.. and attack bonus too when you upgrade.
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Wow, thats actually interesting. I always thought ultralisks were stronger. I'm going to make more archons now :D
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archon has like 3 range, how can the ultra hit him first??
and, if u micro it back and hold position archon would always win..
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On November 27 2009 10:37 boredcouch wrote:
Yea, but the Ultralisk will also usually have dark swarm and rape the archons.
indeed, making me a sad panda.
Having some DTs in your unit mix late game actually fares rather well against a zerg army with swarm though.
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On November 27 2009 10:27 hyst.eric.al wrote:
archons are still more effective though because of splash.
ultras are still more effective becouse of the swarm.
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On November 27 2009 10:53 Piste wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2009 10:27 hyst.eric.al wrote:
archons are still more effective though because of splash. ultras are still more effective becouse of the swarm.
splash is the archons inherent ability. Same cannot be said for ultra/swarm.
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On November 27 2009 10:30 Schnake wrote:
Archons are way cooler though. Their pimpness factor is off the radar, so despite hard numbers, always remember that archons>all.
Agree.
edit: also, why didnt you do this test with 0-0 upgrades or standard protoss 2 weapon 1 armor vs zerg standard 1 weapon 2 armor?
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Archons have a critical mass. I think they're the only valid P ground unit to have one, but after you get around 30 there's no real Z unit composition that stands much of a chance as long as you have 2 templars or 2-3 reavers to deal with tons of hydras.
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On November 27 2009 10:39 konadora wrote:
archons always win 1v1, they even did this test on MBCGame
12 archons vs 12 ultralisks, 12 ultralisks lost
Actually I also think an archon wins 1v1. Although the op has different results, I've tested this in the past (v1.09 or 1.10) and archon always won even if ultra got the armor upgrade. (0-0 vs 0-2 and 3-3 vs 3-5)
but then again this is the most recent test so maybe that's how it is now.
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When I tested with all upgrades, the Archon beat the Ultra.
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In response to the OP saying it is based on who gets the first hit:
Archon always gets first hit
it has range
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Archons > ultras =D. IMO.
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Inc would win. Not sure about CharlieMurphy though.
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On November 27 2009 10:39 konadora wrote:
archons always win 1v1, they even did this test on MBCGame
12 archons vs 12 ultralisks, 12 ultralisks lost
I'm not sure where the 12=1 comes into your reasoning
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On November 27 2009 11:28 Holgerius wrote:
When I tested with all upgrades, the Archon beat the Ultra.
Yea me too weird, 2vs2 might be the splash and so on..
1v1 hard to tell
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On November 27 2009 10:27 hyst.eric.al wrote:
archons are still more effective though because of splash.
yeah, and they can attack air, and they can storm before going into archon, and they have longer range, and they arent bio, + Show Spoiler +
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dude all im saying is. i'd rather have an archon than an ultra
archons have splash + rechargable shields
think about it. 2 hts = 4 storms + archon
;] much better
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On November 27 2009 12:38 DreaM)XeRO wrote:
dude all im saying is. i'd rather have an archon than an ultra
archons have splash + rechargable shields
think about it. 2 hts = 4 storms + archon
;] much better
200/200 vs. 100/300
...
And the Ultralisk can regenerate up to 400 HP vs the 350 Shields
Hrmmmmmm think about that ;D
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Ultra > Archon in swarms
Archons > Ultras with splash (note the plural)
Ultra > Archon in economic aspect (resources required + occupying 2 gateway)
Conclusion:
Archons > Ultras (splash)
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On November 27 2009 12:33 Mobius wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2009 10:27 hyst.eric.al wrote:
archons are still more effective though because of splash. yeah, and they can attack air, and they can storm before going into archon, and they have longer range, and they arent bio, + Show Spoiler +
they float over mines too
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Yeah but it feels like archons die easier. Plus one EMP and it is completely useless. Nothing I can think of that renders an Ultra completely useless immediately besides maelstrom, which doesn't last long, and mind control, but that effects archons the same.
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On November 27 2009 12:51 Amber[LighT] wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2009 12:38 DreaM)XeRO wrote:
dude all im saying is. i'd rather have an archon than an ultra
archons have splash + rechargable shields
think about it. 2 hts = 4 storms + archon
;] much better 200/200 vs. 100/300 ... And the Ultralisk can regenerate up to 400 HP vs the 350 Shields Hrmmmmmm think about that ;D
Regen HP what a joke lol. If you have a Ultra sitting around waiting for its HP to recover(~5 min at least, probably closer to 10)... you need to learn how to play this game. Archons have batteries that work in like 2 seconds.
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On November 27 2009 13:11 zergnewb wrote:
Yeah but it feels like archons die easier. Plus one EMP and it is completely useless. Nothing I can think of that renders an Ultra completely useless immediately besides maelstrom, which doesn't last long, and mind control, but that effects archons the same.
Terrans have irridiate, having a 100 hp ultra is almost as useless as a 10 hp archon
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I considered that. But seeing as how it takes a while for irradiate to work then it isn't immediate  . Also an irradiated Ultra still has an opportunity to be useful. If it is irradiated during a battle then you can plague T's marines. But my ZvT sucks so I have no idea lol.
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LOL THIS KINDA STUFF IS ALREADY TESTED AND BUSTED ON ONGAMENETS MANNER PYLON WHERE KINGDOM ( THE CASTER ) DOES ALL OF THIS STUFF LOL... YOU ARE OLD DOING THIS STUFF AHAHHAHAH
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On November 27 2009 13:30 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2009 13:11 zergnewb wrote:
Yeah but it feels like archons die easier. Plus one EMP and it is completely useless. Nothing I can think of that renders an Ultra completely useless immediately besides maelstrom, which doesn't last long, and mind control, but that effects archons the same. Terrans have irridiate, having a 100 hp ultra is almost as useless as a 10 hp archon
It's not, how many times do you see irradiated ultralisks tear into MnM groups?
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On November 27 2009 13:48 TwoStep wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2009 13:30 arb wrote:On November 27 2009 13:11 zergnewb wrote:
Yeah but it feels like archons die easier. Plus one EMP and it is completely useless. Nothing I can think of that renders an Ultra completely useless immediately besides maelstrom, which doesn't last long, and mind control, but that effects archons the same. Terrans have irridiate, having a 100 hp ultra is almost as useless as a 10 hp archon It's not, how many times do you see irradiated ultralisks tear into MnM groups?
This. Probably the worst move a terran could make would be to irradiate a bunch of full HP ultras that are attacking his rines, considering the irradiate doesn't kill them that quickly and does massive splash damage to the rines.
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Power Overwhelming > all.
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archon has range, I don't see how ultra will get the first hit
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On November 27 2009 13:05 Kyuukyuu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2009 12:33 Mobius wrote:On November 27 2009 10:27 hyst.eric.al wrote:
archons are still more effective though because of splash. yeah, and they can attack air, and they can storm before going into archon, and they have longer range, and they arent bio, + Show Spoiler + they float over mines too
On November 27 2009 13:11 zergnewb wrote:
Yeah but it feels like archons die easier. Plus one EMP and it is completely useless. Nothing I can think of that renders an Ultra completely useless immediately besides maelstrom, which doesn't last long, and mind control, but that effects archons the same.
Since when do Terrans appear in a PvZ / ZvP?
... o.O unless it's like 2v2 or something. In any case, no need to complicate things by pulling terran into the argument.
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On November 27 2009 11:30 lone_hydra wrote:
In response to the OP saying it is based on who gets the first hit:
Archon always gets first hit
it has range
well kidna depended on the angle for me, there were times the archon didnt attack until after the ultra hit first
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On November 27 2009 10:28 Funnytoss wrote:
... what's the point? You will almost never have this sort of 1 on 1 situation, largely because these two units should never be engaging each other head-on. Ideally Archons would be sitting behind Ultras and doing massive splash damage.
uh... Have you ever seen late game zvp when the Z has tons of gas? This situation happens more than you think. And what are you ttalking about when you say sitting behind the ultras?
On November 27 2009 10:28 SoulMarine wrote:
cool story bro.
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Damn that is tough luck right there.
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Mystlord
United States10264 Posts
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On November 27 2009 14:12 DarthThienAn wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2009 13:05 Kyuukyuu wrote:On November 27 2009 12:33 Mobius wrote:On November 27 2009 10:27 hyst.eric.al wrote:
archons are still more effective though because of splash. yeah, and they can attack air, and they can storm before going into archon, and they have longer range, and they arent bio, + Show Spoiler + they float over mines too Show nested quote +On November 27 2009 13:11 zergnewb wrote:
Yeah but it feels like archons die easier. Plus one EMP and it is completely useless. Nothing I can think of that renders an Ultra completely useless immediately besides maelstrom, which doesn't last long, and mind control, but that effects archons the same. Since when do Terrans appear in a PvZ / ZvP? ... o.O unless it's like 2v2 or something. In any case, no need to complicate things by pulling terran into the argument.
Well it isn't exactly about who wins archons vs ultra. Those statements are about which unit is more useful.
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Someone should do an Animal Face-Off parody with Starcraft units.
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Wait wtf, I thought ultras win since you can make the ultra attack faster by spamming attack?
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Archons do so much damage when upgraded and shit. The only reasons they don't stomp over the zerg army completely are swarm and gas limitation
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I'm more curious with 12 ultras vs 12 archons under swarm
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What about 12 ultras vs 12 archons under swarm and maelstrom?
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If the fight is under swarm Archons stand no chance. Swarm completely neuters Archons. However, that is why you see toss users run away when the clouds start popping up (or just storm them).
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archons will win in a real fight because ultras are so fat they'll get surrounded by zlots and shot in the butt by goons.
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Swarm doesn't completely neuter archons, but it does fuck them up
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On November 27 2009 13:01 kaleidoscope wrote:
Ultra > Archon in swarms
Archons > Ultras with splash (note the plural)
Ultra > Archon in economic aspect (resources required + occupying 2 gateway)
Conclusion:
Archons > Ultras (splash)
To the OP, I think you focused it too much on a 1on1 aspect. That fight is unrealistic and kind of useless to be honest.
Archons gain their strength in larger numbers. The splash damage is what makes them a really hard unit to contend with in critical mass for Zerg. The other thing I would like to note (and why I chose to quote this guy)
Gas is kind of an unlimited resource in a sense. This is one of the reasons when I drop a protoss' main I aim for the nex as well as upgrades and tech. Depending on how much longer a game lasts that extra depleted geyser could make a pretty big difference in the how many Archon's you end up dealing with depending on how much longer the game ends up lasting.
I understand this situation is limited to the late game, however we are talking about Archon effectiveness in critical mass, which is usually attained late game where gas is an unlimited resource, while minerals eventually get to the point where you are struggling for it.
I find a lot of occasions as Zerg where all of a sudden I have 2500 gas and just can't seem to find the minerals, it usually is because I have around 5 gas in motion, while only 1-3 bases actually have minerals left in them.
So in that sense, I think Archon's are REALLY good for bolstering a Protoss army late game because of how cheap they are mineral wise, as well as them being stormers first which are very effective units in itself. When you struggle for minerals you have to focus on how to have patients and use that unlimited gas reserve. Its where patients really kicks in and can win a game for you.
As was mentioned before, the Archon has Splash, range, and can hit air. The only major counter to it is Dark Swarm and ultra or hypothetically guardian ultra (if stormers don't exist, which they obviously will) While Ultra's can lose to air, are weak against Reavers and Protoss generally has a decent amount of counters for an admittedly very strong unit.
I summarize, basically looking at which one is stronger in a 1on1 fight is completely pointless. Each one is situationally very strong in its own regard. To supplyment a mid game army they are both very powerful, however ultras don't have a critical mass point while Archon's essentially do. Archons are also a lower tier then Ultras which also changes how we can accurately gauge and compare them.
I think one fair thing to say, the more gas a map has the more friendly it is for a Protoss in ZvP because it tends to allow much larger Archon and gas unit counts which favors Protoss in ZvP. An example of a map like that would be Rpoint or Gaia with really high gas counts and where Archons are used in huge numbers and big fights.
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oh man.. It's like general knowledge already.. Archons > Ultras .. Nobody cares if 1 ultra > 1 archon because that will never happen in a 1v1 game lol ;;
Zerglings are the ones doing the most damage in a late game confront. Ultras are there basically to absorve damage :p
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haha i never thought archon would win this T,T
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Ultra DPS is not high enough, and usually late-game Archon rapes shit.
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I thought the Archon's splash damage meant that swarm did nothing to them?
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On November 27 2009 20:51 Abyzou wrote:
I thought the Archon's splash damage meant that swarm did nothing to them?
only splash damage is dealt, ~5 in the edges of that blue circle thing.
Dunno if larger units eat more hitboxes of that splash though.
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Germany2762 Posts
but the archon should always hit first just because of the range. so actually the archon wins every fight. how come that the stats are in favor for the ultra then?
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coz of splash and range archons win in larger scale battles.
but the decisive point about all this is something else: u have to build templars anyway, and after they arent of use anymore, u get a fighting unit about as strong as an ultralisk "for free". ultras on the other hand need a massive investment of resources. if u combine the strength of templars and that of the archons morphed from them later on, they are far stronger than ultralisks.
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Archon always win no matter what in ultra vs archon battle.
But still ultra are always there to be like tanks not damage dealers. They let cracklings to eat up everything that toss army have.
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Is a 1v1 even a relevant test... part of the reason archons rock is because of the splash.
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On November 27 2009 16:25 okum wrote:
Someone should do an Animal Face-Off parody with Starcraft units.
hHAHahahA that sounds hilarious actually!!
but yeah normally speaking archon doesn't get the 3+ shield upgrade and ultra basically makes the zerg army 121321432 times stronger while archon only makes protoss army maybe... 2 times stronger, say
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EPT
