• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 05:57
CEST 11:57
KST 18:57
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End9
Community News
Weekly Cups (Sep 13-20): herO scores triple2BSL Season 2313Weekly Cups (Sep 7-12): SHIN, ByuN, MaxPax double down1StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon101Weekly Cups (Aug 30-Sep 7): herO thrives amid growing schism10
StarCraft 2
General
How do you feel about the StarCraft shooter announcement at BlizzCon 2026? Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Weekly Cups (Sep 13-20): herO scores triple The Death of Cheese: From a Professional Cheeser
Tourneys
2026 GSTL Grand Finals ScienceCraft (October 24-25) - Live Event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20)
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 544 Double Trouble The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 543 Enhanced Defenses Mutation # 542 The Ascended
Brood War
General
Bot on ladder StarCraft Human 'N' AI League an AI researcher's take on the ladder bot BW General Discussion BSL Season 23
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Ro8 Day 2 [ASL22] Ro8 Day 1 [IPSL] IPSL is Back With Winter 26-27!
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Replay Review Process - What do you do? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation
Other Games
General Games
Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread EVE Corporation Diablo IV
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25! Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread All you football fans (soccer)!
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Violent-Cooperative Play and…
TrAiDoS
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Regacy Esports:Our Goa…
regacyesports
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 10310 users

Subtle Evolution of ZvT (Oct GSL spoilers)

Blogs > whatthefat
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 6 Next All
whatthefat
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States918 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-16 18:02:35
October 16 2011 17:59 GMT
#1
[image loading]

I'm extremely glad I decided to buy the ticket for the October season of GSL. I always learn an incredible amount watching code S, and at a time when I'm looking to improve my Zerg play, this season couldn't have been more timely. Before the tournament inevitably spiralled into TvT oblivion, it delivered some of the most entertaining and sophisticated ZvTs I have seen in SC2.

I was so impressed that I started to jot down notes on some of the more subtle changes in the way Zerg is currently being handled by top level players. Here is my summary of the observations that most impressed me. Interestingly, many of these techniques (which did not exist, or at least were not mainstream a couple of months ago) have now been adopted across the board by Nestea, DongRaeGu, Leenock, LosirA, CoCa, and Zenio. I've also seen them in use by IdrA at MLG Orlando.

[image loading]

After the standard 15 hatch and double queens, it has now become much more common to immediately start a third, and often a fourth queen. This Spanishiwa-esque approach provides several benefits. First, it allows Zerg to drone like a madman, spending all larvae on economy. Nestea had 49 drones at the 7:30 mark in one game using this strategy. Second, it provides great defense against the now ubiquitous hellion builds. Third, if Zerg reacts quickly, it can completely annul the effect of drops.

[image loading]

With 2-4 queens defending the main, medivacs can be taken down extremely quickly.
In addition, more queens early in the game allows for...

[image loading]

With most top Zergs now devoting a queen or two to creep spread, code S has been painted purple. Check out the creep spread achieved by the 15 minute mark (in-game time):

[image loading]

This obviously confers huge advantages in terms of mobility and vision. It's nice to see that the top players are now achieving the level of multi-tasking necessary to manage creep spread on top of all the other macro and micro demands.

[image loading]

One of coolest things I've noticed this season is the use of spine crawler movement; what I call 'Spine Walking'. With Terrans converging to the Nash Equilibrium of building hellions in absolutely every game no matter what, it is becoming increasingly hard to zone them out from drone lines, and protect the livelihood of new creep tumors. However, the ingenious solution top Zergs have found is to continually walk the spines with the leading edge of the creep. Here's a great example of a meticulous 'Spine Walk' from Zenio:

[image loading]

[image loading]

The use of macro hatcheries is now completely standard in ZvT, largely due to the prevalence of ling-based armies. What's particularly interesting however, is the reordering of buildings. Back when Zergs relied on two base muta against Terran, the typical order was 1) Tech (spire + mutas) then 2) Third base, then 3) Macrohatch. As Terrans became better at exploiting the timing while Zerg was teching, it became much more common for Zergs to take a third base before teching, and so the typical order switched to 1) Third, 2) Tech/Macro-hatch, 3) Macro-hatch/Tech.

But on many maps, this in turn opens up a new vulnerability. With hellions on the map, it can be difficult to get over to defend the third, meaning if Terran scouts at the right time, they can force a cancel on the Third. An earlier third can also spread Zerg too thin before they have an army, making drops a nightmare to deal with. However, Zerg needs the extra larvae. Therefore, this season it became common for Zergs to use a new order, to great effect: 1) Macro-hatch, 2) Third/Tech, 3) Tech/Third.

[image loading]

This new order also goes hand in hand with earlier queens, as it means there's already an extra queen available to provide injects.

[image loading]

With the latest patch lowering the cost of Overseers, many Zergs are now opting for an Overseer around the 8-9 minute mark.

[image loading]

This is a critical time for scouting Terran's intentions, since many stim/tank pushes come around the 10 minute mark. It's great to see the patch already having an effect in this respect, and I'll be interested to see if this scout becomes standard.

[image loading]

Burrowed banelings have always been super entertaining in the GSL, from the antics of Moon to Nestea's uncanny ability to salvage terrible positions with cleverly placed banelings. However, most of the excitement has been generated by the static use of banelings: Zerg burrows them somewhere clever, then the audience and commentators sit on the edge of their seats waiting to see if Terran scans or is unfortunate enough to walk over them.

This season, the use of burrowed banelings in dynamic situations has been truly impressive. It is now very common for Zergs to use mutas to lure marines into banelings. Zergs are also occasionally starting to burrow banelings during battle, where it's particularly hard to tell whether a baneling has been killed or burrowed, so as to cover the retreat path. Possibly my favorite play of all this season was Leenock's use of burrowed banelings to zone out defenders (similar to a tactical nuke):

[image loading]

All in all, an extremely informative season! ZvT is already an extremely sexy match-up, and it's amazing to see it continue to evolve.

****
SlayerS_BoxeR: "I always feel sorry towards Greg (Grack?) T_T"
Kurr
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada2338 Posts
October 16 2011 18:13 GMT
#2
Hey, when you play 80% of your matches against 1 race, you develop better ways to play vs them.

Thanks for this post, I haven't really watched GSL this season so it's nice to see players changing things up.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ | ┻━┻ ︵╰(°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
a176
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada6688 Posts
October 16 2011 18:36 GMT
#3
most the stuff is normal/given, but good post nevertheless
starleague forever
SirJolt
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
the Dagon Knight4015 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-16 19:21:19
October 16 2011 19:01 GMT
#4
Dearest Whatthefat,

Much as I love your blogs (they're unparalleled, I really must say), it has come to my attention that only one thing lets them down. The fonts used in your images seem badly pixelated, and it throws the whole presentation off kilter a little

I threw together this quick mockup to show you what I mean:

[image loading]

Given the amount of effort you put in, I wonder if there's some way to rectify the font issues with your otherwise prodigious content. I'm sorry if it seems like I'm nitpicking, but when everything else is perfect, it seems like such a tiny thing.

Love, always,

[image loading]
Moderator@SirJolt
ThyHate
Profile Joined September 2011
240 Posts
October 16 2011 19:57 GMT
#5
I love all your posts dude, great job, thank you
Bibbit
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Canada5377 Posts
October 16 2011 20:14 GMT
#6
This is really great. I especially like the Spine Crawler Walk. I've seen it a few times and thought it was pretty cool but never really thought about it !
whatthefat
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States918 Posts
October 16 2011 22:08 GMT
#7
@SirJolt

Thanks! That's probably because I rely on paint for everything, haha! You're right though, I should try to use higher resolutions.
SlayerS_BoxeR: "I always feel sorry towards Greg (Grack?) T_T"
rebuffering
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada2436 Posts
October 16 2011 22:25 GMT
#8
wow awesome post! this should get spotlighted or something, great work!
http://www.twitch.tv/rebufferingg
GypsyBeast
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada630 Posts
October 16 2011 22:35 GMT
#9
this needs to be spotlighted 100%. Very cool in depth look, thanks!
Ya? Well ill BM you harder! Another win in 10 seconds flat! -Rainbow Dash playing SC2.
intrigue
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Washington, D.C9935 Posts
October 17 2011 02:36 GMT
#10
beautiful post. spotlighting!
Moderatorsloppy little slug
GenesisX
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada4267 Posts
October 17 2011 02:47 GMT
#11
this is so good <3 thanks for this
133 221 333 123 111
Carras
Profile Joined August 2010
Argentina860 Posts
October 17 2011 02:48 GMT
#12
GREAT post , i think most zergs have already made this adaptations to their own play (i have been doing this thinks for a while now..) now we get to see them done every game by every zerg!

except the baneling one..that was just one game, maybe we ll see more usage of that sometime
SenorChang
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Australia4730 Posts
October 17 2011 02:51 GMT
#13
On October 17 2011 04:01 SirJolt wrote:

[image loading]

Amazing signature.

Great post and nice pick up's on the changes in the matchup! Seems standard to have an amazing creep spread these days.
ლ(╹◡╹ლ)
NasKe_
Profile Joined October 2010
Brazil570 Posts
October 17 2011 02:56 GMT
#14
awesome awesome just so awesome
rly nice post
this will help me alot
thanks for this
feanor1
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States1899 Posts
October 17 2011 03:00 GMT
#15
Very informative post, didn't think about how many queens people were getting but looking back yeah...
LXR
Profile Joined June 2011
357 Posts
October 17 2011 03:40 GMT
#16
I noticed these things happening and i think it's really great for the matchup. Basically zergs are working more on their preparation, instead of being able to play totally re-actively.
Mattchew
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States5684 Posts
October 17 2011 03:45 GMT
#17
i think upgrades have also become a priority as well... great write up these subtle things make all the difference
There is always tomorrow nshs.seal.
Childplay
Profile Joined October 2011
Canada263 Posts
October 17 2011 03:46 GMT
#18
man, i hope we get to see more zergs in the gsl. This is a start to the new styles iv seen zergs do, and i hope it works just as well as 1/1/1 did on protoss =P
Jaeger
Profile Joined December 2009
United States1150 Posts
October 17 2011 03:52 GMT
#19
I look forward to seeing more baneling blockades similar to the savior army blockades in the savior final edit.
https://www.dotabuff.com/players/8137911
DeltruS
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada2214 Posts
October 17 2011 03:54 GMT
#20
Now we just need some good toss dominance. ZvP's innovation right now is pathetic. We are even reverting into what we did in beta.
http://grooveshark.com/#/deltrus/music
1 2 3 4 5 6 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
GSL
08:00
2026 GSTL: Grand Finals
RotterdaM454
CranKy Ducklings SOOP136
SHIN 74
GSL EN (SOOP)0
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 454
LamboSC2 162
SHIN 74
Rex 32
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 2587
EffOrt 1043
actioN 768
BeSt 399
Barracks 282
Rush 239
PianO 143
Mong 74
Light 49
ZerO 46
[ Show more ]
Yoon 34
Bale 30
ToSsGirL 29
zelot 21
NaDa 20
Sharp 18
ZergMaN 14
JulyZerg 11
HiyA 8
sorry 6
Dota 2
Gorgc5478
League of Legends
JimRising 496
Heroes of the Storm
Trikslyr53
Other Games
gofns28886
Livibee193
ArmadaUGS91
ZerO(Twitch)10
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream16115
StarCraft: Brood War
Afreeca ASL 268
Other Games
BasetradeTV198
[ Show 11 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH210
• LUISG 27
• Letter145
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Upcoming Events
Yamato Cup
5h 3m
BSL Open Qualifier
9h 3m
BSL Open Qualifier
9h 3m
OSC
13h 3m
Replay Cast
14h 3m
Afreeca Starleague
1d
Soma vs Jaedong
WardiTV Weekly
1d 1h
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 6h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Leta vs Soulkey
[ Show More ]
PiGosaur Cup
2 days
Kung Fu Cup
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
Online Event
6 days
FEL
6 days
BSL: Ladder Tournament
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #5 - GSA
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Calamity Invitational

Ongoing

ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSB
Acropolis #5 - GSC
BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Custodian Cup
Copium Cup
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.