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Subtle Evolution of ZvT (Oct GSL spoilers) - Page 4

Blogs > whatthefat
Post a Reply
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kota
Profile Joined October 2010
Denmark84 Posts
October 17 2011 13:38 GMT
#61
Amazing write up
Apoo
Profile Joined January 2011
413 Posts
October 17 2011 13:40 GMT
#62
This is so helpful for your general knowledge of the game and your own playstyle, i love it.
Really nice structure, im going to use Marco Hatcheries in my next matches.
One negative thing: Please do not use those crappy headlines again: Yellow and pixeld font on an ugly purple background. : (
pksens
Profile Joined July 2010
United Kingdom156 Posts
October 17 2011 13:50 GMT
#63
Nice write up.

In addition:

1) Quite often seeing a 7 roach push off of the standard 2 base opening. After speedling, keep mining gas and opt for your next 150-200 gas on roaches with the option of a wave of speedlings behind it. The key here is you can rush a 3rd and a ton of drones behind it if the opponent is doing a typical reactor helion build. If the opponent makes a mistake you can outright cripple him (ie doesn't wall in natural, like STC Stephano G3 IPL), or often times just pressure the first supply depot + kill marines/scv's behind it whilst macroing up. Very much a meta game feature with the prevelance of reactor helion into expansion builds.

2) Upgrades: Terrans featured alot of fast 2-2 double ebay play, or 3-3 rushes. 1-1 often in time with combat shield/stim, 2-2 with another push. I notice alot of zergs have universally gotten +1 mellee attack alot faster and fast +2 attack. If only to allow ling/bane/muta do deal just enough DPS rather than survive with carapaces.

Whats next?

A) Late game baneling drops are STILL criminally underused. By the mid-late game there are turrets on every base but there are ways around that. For example, using a "dummy" overlord to take damage, or to unload banelings out of site just away from the CC. If it's an OC, you are going to wreck a SCV line. If it's a Planetary, it'd be a good idea to space out your first baneling so it doesn't clump up and all get blown up in 2 hits.

B) Nydus ling spreads. The main objective here is to force the Terran to constantly split up his army to deal with annoying lings in places he isn't covering from the front. If you manage to get a Nydus up in the main you will likely disrupt only production, as by then the mineral lines have depleted and 14+ marines are in constant cycle that can deal with you. Again, any moment marines are not where they should be, a tank is more vunerable to mutalisks etc.

C) Late game creepspread- it often dies after you lose your initial queens + tumours on the first few pushes by Terran but a constant queen production should be ideal.


The question is: on top of baneling land mines, dilligent macro injections and production, mutalisk harass, creep spread, potential nydus harass, baneling drop play and general micro with units - is this entirely possible within APM constraints?
DandyConeJellos
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6 Posts
October 17 2011 13:55 GMT
#64
I think if you aren't going to be using roaches as the main comp of your army a macro hatch around the 9 min mark is definitely what you need. It's what I've been doing as it's safer on some maps to do than try and take a third. Especially since the mobility of the terran army can be an issue with drops, and until you have mutas out, trying to take a third can be a hard to secure without those flying dragons. lol
Douillos
Profile Joined May 2010
France3195 Posts
October 17 2011 14:11 GMT
#65
excellent post.
Look a giraffe! Look a fist!!
bubblegumbo
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Taiwan1296 Posts
October 17 2011 14:16 GMT
#66
Excellent OP, makes me wish I was a Zerg player.
"I honestly think that whoever invented toilet paper is a genius. For man to survive, they need toilet paper!"- Nal_rA
JoeAWESOME
Profile Joined February 2011
Sweden1080 Posts
October 17 2011 14:25 GMT
#67
Nice writeup, I think the main reason is the drop potential as Z's only answer for drop in the early game is the queen. + They dont come from Larva so you can pump them out without hindering your larva stacking (You have larva for workers or unit when you choose to make them)
Simply Awesome! - Liquid'Ret - NSHoSeo_Seal - coLMVP_DRG - EG_Idra - Fnatic.NightEnd
Mayor
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States472 Posts
October 17 2011 14:27 GMT
#68
I've been watching IdrA actually adapted and took notes from the GSL zergs as well with his recent play. Really cool to see it change.Great write up.
"You can be creative but I will crush it under the iron fist of my conservative play." - Liquid`Tyler
ticktack
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United Arab Emirates874 Posts
October 17 2011 14:40 GMT
#69
Really cool read. The creep spread in code s is really getting so scary.
A winner is just a loser who got pissed off and tried harder
Umpteen
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United Kingdom1570 Posts
October 17 2011 15:16 GMT
#70
Don't know if it's worth mentioning, but I've noticed a lot more zergs investing in substantial amounts of static defence against drops, rather than try to cut that corner and respond with units. This seems to be a reaction to the number of 'fire and forget' drops Terrans have been executing in the mid-late game to try and kick the legs from under a macro Zerg: devote minimal APM to managing the drop while advancing or repositioning their main army, expecting the Zerg to send all of his lings and mutas streaming away to defend the drop.
The existence of a food chain is inescapable if we evolved unsupervised, and inexcusable otherwise.
Horse...falcon
Profile Joined December 2010
United States1851 Posts
October 17 2011 15:18 GMT
#71
Leenock is one badmutherfucker
Artosis: "From horsssse....falcon"
Fateless
Profile Joined January 2011
United States99 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-17 22:46:10
October 17 2011 15:56 GMT
#72
On October 17 2011 03:36 a176 wrote:
most the stuff is normal/given, but good post nevertheless


Most of this response is normal/given, but good post anyway.

OP: I thought the comment of this was fantastic, but agree with the need for improved Graphic Design.
Emporio
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States3069 Posts
October 17 2011 16:35 GMT
#73
Is there anyone else that does the mass spine crawler drop in the middle of the map that Stephano often does in the late game to fee up supply and dump minerals?
How does it feel knowing you wasted another 3 seconds of your life reading this again?
Cascade
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
Australia5405 Posts
October 17 2011 16:54 GMT
#74
On October 17 2011 20:28 hoolaboris wrote:
did i just read the word "nash equilibrium" in a starcraft thread? that's a very bold term to use for a simple metagame tendancy


He COULD say that there is no good counter to hellion openings, and get the thread completely ruined by wild balance claims right and left.

OR, he could give the equivalent, but much sexier, statement that always opening hellions is a nash equilibrium, and not catch any flame at all.

Easy choice imo, well done OP, and thanks for the article.
Celadan
Profile Joined September 2010
Norway471 Posts
October 17 2011 17:56 GMT
#75
hmmm maybe il catch on and use more queens , thanks for the post^^
спеціальна Тактика
leo23
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States3075 Posts
October 17 2011 17:59 GMT
#76
great post! 5/5
banelings
vectorix108
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States4633 Posts
October 17 2011 18:20 GMT
#77
Really cool analysis. Good read!
Aka XephyR/Shaneyesss
ReturnStroke
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States801 Posts
October 17 2011 19:00 GMT
#78
Another great post from Mr. Fat. ty
Kollapse
Profile Joined April 2010
United States125 Posts
October 17 2011 19:11 GMT
#79
Super awesome post, you've convinced me to purchase a GOM ticket next season
Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see.
Baha
Profile Joined June 2010
Spain64 Posts
October 17 2011 19:20 GMT
#80
On October 18 2011 04:11 Kollapse wrote:
Super awesome post, you've convinced me to purchase a GOM ticket next season


I will, too, first because I was following the last days of the GSL on stream when I could and second because there will be more foreigners this season
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