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Recently, Teamliquid's stance on promoting cheaters has come to into the light. More specifically, the Teamliquid staff have been locking streams which try to broadcast an event promoting a player who stream-watches, was kicked out of the Collegiate Starcraft League for excessive bad manner after being put on probation for the same, and who was disqualified for trying to play two accounts in the same bracket of a tournament. This blog is a very brief attempt to explain why some people wholeheartedly agree with it, while others think it's silly.
For some people, Starcraft is a hobby. For these people, locking down streams trying to broadcast an interesting event is an annoyance. While they might be outraged if a player tried to cheat during a Global Starcraft League game, they frankly don't lose much sleep worrying about the integrity of the ladder, a collegiate league, or even a Major League Gaming preliminary event. The bottom line is these people simply want to watch a match commentated by charismatic players with a dramatic storyline. That's why these people are against Teamliquid's stance on cheaters.
For others, however, Starcraft is a career, and this drastically changes how cheating must be dealt with. A salaried Teamliquid Administrator can't approach cheaters like a hobbyist might want them to. To use an analogy, if a referee is paid off to fix a pickup Basketball game at the YMCA, the end result is a funny story. However, when Tim Donaghy was paid to fix National Basketball Association games, David Stern had a gigantic scandal on his hands. That's the position Teamliquid Administrators are in; by virtue of the popularity of Teamliquid.net they've arguably been conscripted into positions as commissioners of Starcraft 2. This is why they can't act like the hobbyist wants them to act.
Finally, another group of people are against Teamliquid's policy because they think the underlying reason for it is a specific Teamliquid Administrator's personal animus against the player question. This fits in with the persistent perception among some Starcraft 2 community members that Teamliquid's notoriously strict moderation is due to the personal, senseless prerogatives of Moderators as opposed to a desire to create the best Starcraft 2 forum possible.
While this theory will undoubtedly be attractive to some, ultimately it does not pass muster. First, the administrator with the alleged bias was not the one closing the streams. Second, Teamliquid has been incredibly consistent with the application of their anti-cheating policy, even when it had to be applied to popular players like Dimaga. Third and finally, the Administrator with the alleged grudge has believably characterized his feelings toward the player in question as those of disdain and apathy, not active dislike.
Ultimately, neither side's perspective is wrong. However, as explained above, Teamliquid has to act in the way it has acted. Thankfully for the hobbyists, though, because of the popularity of Starcraft 2, there now exist legitimate alternative communities where they can have the discussions they want.
  
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For a second, I thought you meant TL and the staff, not the community. Not sure if it was just me.
I think a lot of people don't know about CombatEX beyond the fact that this person is really rude, off-the-wall and incredibly bad-mannered and that excites them. They're exciting because it's uncensored, wild and incredibly aggravating play that shows falter in many professionals gameplay.
I agree with you and really thankful you made this topic. I've grown more and more worrisome that people like CombatEX and Deezer were gaining an undeserved notoriety for things that may be entertaining the some, but shouldn't be condoned as a meaningful path to fame or notoriety in the community.
Some people are legitimately good, skilled, helpful, yet get no viewers or desire to make an appearance because people are more fixated on the horrid than the pleasant.
But that's just me, I'm probably entirely wrong.
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Who wants to watch a game where the players are cheating. Besides the fact its "Team Liquids" Website, the content THEY choose to promote is up to them. All other opinions are sort of void.
I side with their decision on this, not that it matters.
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I am always amazed when people don't think the rules apply to their favorite e-celebrities. If you break the rules, the banhammer comes down, period!
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United States10328 Posts
wait, people like combat-ex?
but seriously, good points  though I have nothing to do with stream closings and such, I'm sure the decision was made a) after deliberation with other staff and b) based on a history of offensiveness/cheating.
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Not sure why anyone would not give this topic 5stars .__. The truth hurts?
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wait im not understanding the situation here. can anyone clarify what actions are being referred to in the blog?
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FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
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On July 02 2011 14:15 Kenpachi wrote:
wait im not understanding the situation here. can anyone clarify what actions are being referred to in the blog?
Basically, the first thing that was going to happen, was that Combat[EX] was going to play IdrA in a show match for 140$ casted by Destiny and CatZ, but then something happened and it turned into him playing CatZ, in the thread Torte linked you. So basically, because of all the stuff mentioned in the OP, TL doesn't exactly want to promote Combat[EX], or promote any stream featuring him. Then there was a lot of outcry for people because they just wanted to see Combat[EX], yadda yadda, and so on. I think the OP has the rest covered. :p
Hope I explained that well and didn't screw up the facts too much, I'm tired and haven't had the best day.
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The problem is that it's really hard to draw the line, I mean some people see IdrA as glorified for being BM, not for being a great zerg player. But he's still a great zerg player who deserves to be watched and learned from. Same with Combatex, he may be super BM, but he is still an extremely good player, so in my opinion his stream warrants viewership if people are trying to learn to play aggressively. What I don't agree with, however, is streams like the one with destiny, incontrol, and combatex, trying to showcase "drama." While I respect good players for their skills, I can still think they're retarded for promoting useless bickering for more views.
I'm glad TL is maintaining a firm stance, it says a lot for the administration here. They would rather keep their site clean and professional with less views instead of succumbing to "drama streams" and boosting their active members.
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Have to agree with TL's stance here. There are some people who have had multiple chances to prove themselves but they just manage to ruin everything they touch. Sometimes it's deliberate sometimes they simply just don't care. The best strategy is to ignore them wherever possible, don't include them in anything related to you and hope they take the hint and leave.
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The problem is that it's really hard to draw the line, I mean some people see IdrA as glorified for being BM, not for being a great zerg player. But he's still a great zerg player who deserves to be watched and learned from. Same with Combatex, he may be super BM, but he is still an extremely good player, so in my opinion his stream warrants viewership if people are trying to learn to play aggressively. What I don't agree with, however, is streams like the one with destiny, incontrol, and combatex, trying to showcase "drama." While I respect good players for their skills, I can still think they're retarded for promoting useless bickering for more views.
I think there's a very big distinction between someone being "bad mannered" and someone outright cheating in a league multiple times. While Idra is often, passionate, about his opinions he follows the rules of the tournaments he plays in.
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On July 02 2011 14:45 wonderwall wrote:Show nested quote +The problem is that it's really hard to draw the line, I mean some people see IdrA as glorified for being BM, not for being a great zerg player. But he's still a great zerg player who deserves to be watched and learned from. Same with Combatex, he may be super BM, but he is still an extremely good player, so in my opinion his stream warrants viewership if people are trying to learn to play aggressively. What I don't agree with, however, is streams like the one with destiny, incontrol, and combatex, trying to showcase "drama." While I respect good players for their skills, I can still think they're retarded for promoting useless bickering for more views. I think there's a very big distinction between someone being "bad mannered" and someone outright cheating in a league multiple times. While Idra is often, passionate, about his opinions he follows the rules of the tournaments he plays in.
While I agree, I think it's something that the streamers know that they're getting themselves into when they open up their stream. Also, it would be incredibly difficult if not impossible to 100% confirm stream cheating, it's not like how map hacks work.
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While I agree, I think it's something that the streamers know that they're getting themselves into when they open up their stream. Also, it would be incredibly difficult if not impossible to 100% confirm stream cheating, it's not like how map hacks work.
In the OP he talks about CombatEx being kicked out of the CSL after being warned previously for excessive bad manner and being kicked out of a tournament after trying to enter twice using two separate accounts. Stream cheating is much more arguable I agree but I think we're talking about something different.
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On July 02 2011 14:51 wonderwall wrote:Show nested quote +While I agree, I think it's something that the streamers know that they're getting themselves into when they open up their stream. Also, it would be incredibly difficult if not impossible to 100% confirm stream cheating, it's not like how map hacks work. In the OP he talks about CombatEx being kicked out of the CSL after being warned previously for excessive bad manner and being kicked out of a tournament after trying to enter twice using two separate accounts. Stream cheating is much more arguable I agree but I think we're talking about something different.
Oh sorry, I didn't realize he was booted for using different accounts, I just remembered the BM charges.
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Seeing the post where they tried to feature combatex in a show match, I'm kinda iffy on that, i don't know if people should try to milk that kind of notoriety for stream views, and I'm glad that TL decided that it should not be an event featured on TL.
It's fun to watch combatex bm players from once in a while, but that should be left on the down-low, especially after hearing the skype call a while back where he openly admitted to stream watching constantly.
+ Show Spoiler +AKA HURTING ESPORTS, GUYS
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On July 02 2011 14:47 Endymion wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2011 14:45 wonderwall wrote:The problem is that it's really hard to draw the line, I mean some people see IdrA as glorified for being BM, not for being a great zerg player. But he's still a great zerg player who deserves to be watched and learned from. Same with Combatex, he may be super BM, but he is still an extremely good player, so in my opinion his stream warrants viewership if people are trying to learn to play aggressively. What I don't agree with, however, is streams like the one with destiny, incontrol, and combatex, trying to showcase "drama." While I respect good players for their skills, I can still think they're retarded for promoting useless bickering for more views. I think there's a very big distinction between someone being "bad mannered" and someone outright cheating in a league multiple times. While Idra is often, passionate, about his opinions he follows the rules of the tournaments he plays in. While I agree, I think it's something that the streamers know that they're getting themselves into when they open up their stream. Also, it would be incredibly difficult if not impossible to 100% confirm stream cheating, it's not like how map hacks work.
It's pretty easy to get 100% confirmation when the offender admits to it repeatedly. Combatex is in my mind a scumbag, but he's not as scummy as someone like TT1. At least when people call him a cheater he fesses up to it.
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EPT
