On July 02 2011 14:27 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Basically, the first thing that was going to happen, was that Combat[EX] was going to play IdrA in a show match for 140$ casted by Destiny and CatZ, but then something happened
Yeah, what happened was they never ran the idea past IdrA.
I think the site's stance on this matter is perfectly reasonable. I suggest that they try to get their explanation out there in front of people whenever they close such a thread, because it's going to take a while for the readers to catch up with where they are on it.
Edit: I too would like to know what evidence there is for Deezer stream cheating.
On July 02 2011 14:27 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Basically, the first thing that was going to happen, was that Combat[EX] was going to play IdrA in a show match for 140$ casted by Destiny and CatZ, but then something happened
Yeah, what happened was they never ran the idea past IdrA.
I think the site's stance on this matter is perfectly reasonable. I suggest that they try to get their explanation out there in front of people whenever they close such a thread, because it's going to take a while for the readers to catch up with where they are on it.
Edit: I too would like to know what evidence there is for Deezer stream cheating.
On July 02 2011 17:26 Shai wrote: IdrA was banned due to BM towards a suspected stream cheater. Seems to me TL's opinion on this is not so cut and dry.
More like you need to read properly. He said BM on one's own personal stream.
Furthermore, idras extended ban was not due to bm but actions on his twitter re tl mods.
From what i can tell, not having encountered evidence but just what was posited here re: deezers stream, he was not banned for stream cheating but rathere suspected stream cheating.
I understand TL's stance toward players who use hacks/cheats in SC when they decide whether or not to list a user's stream, but TL policing stream sniping/stream watching is a lot like me leaving the keys in the ignition of an ashton martin in the middle of the city and blaming the thief.
It's the streamers responsibility to handle their stream, not TL or any other forum, with things like turning screen black/mute sc2/wait before finding another game. I think Incontrol does this already. And JTV has a stream delay which seems a must for any live tourny streaming.
For every Deezer and He-who-shall-not-be-named who go under the microscope, how many more are stream cheating just a little more... careful? It's better to accept stream cheating as an inevitability, not a possibility, and move forward from there.
thread started out great but ended up (and will continue) to be a place where people argue "combat isn't that bad" and deezer "was never truly caught"
you guys realize how much you are playing into the problem?
Combat unabashedly admits/talks about cheating. He flames everyone stream or no. He is a nuisance and is a terrible part of the community.
Deezer stream snipes and talks shit every single time you get him harassing you. Actually, for clarification he sometimes is manner but that is 1 in 10 games or so. Does he cheat? You kidding right? When I black out my stream I am something like 10-2 against him. When I don't he magically knows more about you and wins more. I will say this: He doesn't do it ALL the time. Sometimes he just snipes you.. but yes, he cheats.
And honestly ANY cheating should make you a bad person in the community not some kind of endearing one. And even if these guys didn't cheat they aren't "bm" they are harassment cases. They spam you, they get others to spam you.. they call you any and everything they can think of to try and upset you. Not that big of a deal I agree.. but why the FUCK does that somehow make them cool to people in our community? That is why threads like this and others need to pop up.. we as a community shouldn't tolerate this stuff.
I don't know about other people, but I do know he doesn't cheat vs me. He does snipe me, which can get annoying, but he doesn't cheat, I've checked replays and so on and so on. But like I said I can only speak for myself. Yes deezer does talk shit, but so do other people, he's not the only one who does it.
At one moment I'm reading an endless sea of criticisms of professionalism concerning all the major SC2 leagues, and then I see threads like this calling for more Combat-EX and Deezer? Are you kidding me?
Completely agreed, but I won't lie and say I wasn't interested in seeing who the ppl were (combatex/deezer) behind their nicknames. After my first dose though and maybe an hour in to it I was tired of the conversation and won't be tuning into any other events which I hope do not take place.
Incontrol I am sorry but I can't just take a players word for it, they are too fallible and it's too easy to rationalize losses as "he is a cheater and he knew what I was doing". Especially when it's just "some of the time he's cheating". Why is he cheating rather than just getting lucky? I couldn't believe it unless I saw some sort of ridiculous replays. I don't even know why you mention stream sniping and BM.
I just don't think it's right for us to ban people based purely on speculation. We never did that in broodwar, and for good reason.
On July 03 2011 02:51 travis wrote: I just don't think it's right for us to ban people based purely on speculation. We never did that in broodwar, and for good reason.
I'm a bit confused - an early administrator stated Deezer was stream banned for stream cheating and that TL does not ban for BM.
Cheaters should be banned and removed from the TL community of course.
On July 03 2011 02:51 travis wrote: I just don't think it's right for us to ban people based purely on speculation. We never did that in broodwar, and for good reason.
I'm a bit confused - an early administrator stated Deezer was stream banned for stream cheating and that TL does not ban for BM.
Cheaters should be banned and removed from the TL community of course.
What are you confused about. I am saying that none of us ever saw any proof. If there was proof it wasn't made public.
We'll never change our stance on cheaters to get some extra stream viewers or some more traffic. I completely understand why other sites want to give them attention though, it's a lot of hits and attention.
On July 03 2011 02:51 travis wrote: I just don't think it's right for us to ban people based purely on speculation. We never did that in broodwar, and for good reason.
I'm a bit confused - an early administrator stated Deezer was stream banned for stream cheating and that TL does not ban for BM.
Cheaters should be banned and removed from the TL community of course.
What are you confused about. I am saying that none of us ever saw any proof. If there was proof it wasn't made public.
On July 02 2011 15:30 NB wrote: So: TL hates cheater, bm-er -> they have their rights to ban people they dont like on their website!
We only have a problem with cheaters, not BMers. People bm all they want on their streams and we have no problem with it - most of my favorite streams are the rage/bm fueled ones. Lot's of bming goes on TL and theres obviously a grey area with what is in good fun vs. malicious.
With cheaters though...
Its actually not true.
TL disabled my stream for bmers.
No you're stream was disabled because you stream cheat.
And if you are saying there is no proof, why the ban for it?
travis can spend his time defending deezer/combatex ... I've heard of people doing worse things. I on the other hand won't shed a tear when a guy like deezer isn't given the benefit of the doubt. Also, we are an online community SOMETIMES you have to act without perfect evidence. It isn't perfect but it's what we got and that is fine.
On July 03 2011 05:28 iNcontroL wrote: travis can spend his time defending deezer/combatex ... I've heard of people doing worse things. I on the other hand won't shed a tear when a guy like deezer isn't given the benefit of the doubt. Also, we are an online community SOMETIMES you have to act without perfect evidence. It isn't perfect but it's what we got and that is fine.
First, they came for the possible stream cheaters and I didn't speak out because I was not a stream cheater.
Then they came for people who had maybe once-upon-a-time been BM and I didn't speak out because I am never BM.
Then they came for the satirical blog posters and I didn't speak out because eff those dee bags.
Then they came for the dubious reply posters, and there was no one left to speak out for me.
Yes and he shares an account with a confirmed hacker but you know, we don't have proof that that was him either so.. probably not y'know?
"proof" ?? He has stream cheated vs me many times. I'm talking proxy gates outside my base without scouting and blind countering different techs.. gimme a break lol
EPT
