On July 17 2009 00:23 AzureEye wrote:
Protoss may be easy to start with but is the hardest race to master

Once you hit the upper ranks like C+ and above, I heard playing Terran is easier than Protoss

Clow

Brazil880 Posts

July 16 2009 16:57 GMT

#42

On July 17 2009 00:41 Hot_Bid wrote:
i think the bigger problem is that newer players try too much to emulate pro builds at D levels. theres really no reason to do risky, econ-heavy builds because at D/D+, nobody is going to exploit it that much. that means, if you need to 2 fac or ebay before you expo TvP, it won't cost you as much because the P doesn't have Bisu macro and won't roll you because of a slightly later CC. same for ZvP, there's no reason to 12h at D because you risk losing to 2 gate because your ling micro is bad. just 12p and be ultra safe and get to midgame.

I used to practice with my friend (ZvT) and he was always like 'YOU LOST BECAUSE YOU BUILT YOUR SUNKENS TOO EARLY!', but then, looking at the replay, I see that his macro was terrible. It's always like that, he's right about me building sunkens too early or unnecessarily, but in the end it doesn't really affect the game.

-----

To the OP, go Zerg!

Harem

United States11393 Posts

July 16 2009 17:06 GMT

#43

On July 17 2009 01:57 Clow wrote:

Show nested quote +

You never even play anymore. :[

YPang

United States4024 Posts

July 16 2009 17:11 GMT

#44

I dont think anyone can speak for the A level progamers at top like jaedong/bisu, no one has any idea what they feel is hard and what not. The CLOSEST any foreigner can assume about progamer level at most is B level because we've seen idra play at that.

It seems to me that some of the top progamers knows the game so well that they can sorta guess what your doing by looking at your worker saturation and the time they scout you. They see stuff regular people don't, and they can adapt to situations most people would think "Omg protoss take so much skill to know terran is 2fac'ing, he's a master of mind games". Its not the case at all, they played so much they can TELL if terran is going 2 fac or not just by the timing of his marines and how many marines he makes. Its not hard if you play 10 hours a day. Its sorta like timing pushes with terran, when terran sees toss's 2nd nexus goes down, his timing of when to push out ISN"T HARD, its how he controls the army that is hard. And AT MOST protoss's mechanics at top level imo is equivalent of terrans (thats if they do a bunch of harrasses). In my opinion races like zergs/terran they practice to get their mechanics at top tier shape, but protoss practice to be able to read these little cues without faluire. Especially for zerg at high levels they are so mechanically demanding any sort of mistake can lose them the game, thats why top zergs are so unstable.

There's a reason why protoss is the most popular race for iccup and progamers (If you seen artosis's video of the amateur draft you'd see the majority is protoss).

Stratos.FEAR

Canada706 Posts

July 16 2009 17:14 GMT

#45

i think while protoss at lower levels is alot easier but it gets harder when u move up because everyone else has had to learn how to beat protoss builds and strategies to get from D to say C. so at this point where everyone has more experience against protoss, protoss players must be better than zerg and terran to advance past this point

then again there is also preference and play style

Crunchums

United States11144 Posts

July 16 2009 17:55 GMT

#46

Why did you put a question mark in the title?

GoShox

United States1844 Posts

July 16 2009 17:56 GMT

#47

Zoler

Sweden6339 Posts

July 16 2009 18:05 GMT

#48

"Terran is easier" hahahha

Empyrean

17068 Posts

July 16 2009 18:06 GMT

#49

I think he means Terran has an easier time against people around the same rank (C+ish) than others. A C+ Terran will likely beat a C+ Protoss.

Muirhead

United States556 Posts

July 16 2009 18:24 GMT

#50

A C+ Terran will not "likely" beat a C+ Protoss, because if that were the case then all the C+ Terrans would rank up to B-. If both a protoss and a terran are maintaining the same stable rank, be it D or A, then they must have the same winning percentage. The only question one can reasonably ask is if it takes more skill/time/effort for a terran to rank up to C+ than for a protoss too.

There is some bandwagon mentality that it should be easier for the toss but I don't think that there is any hard evidence either way. In my own personal experience the jump from D to D+ is easiest for toss, but beyond that it is not so clear.

Chef

10810 Posts

July 16 2009 18:25 GMT

#51

Everyone has their own play styles and preferences for how they prioritize actions and thoughts. Sometimes one race favours this much more than another race.

Current Protoss trends in progaming favour a very macro oriented "make units and attack" style of game play. It didn't used to (Protoss was much more about constant harass for a time) but now it is. This favours particular mindsets for people who just want to focus on themselves. Get my bases up, make my army, defend properly, and I'll be okay. That's a very common line of thought for people who feel the threat of losses at their level. In that sense, Protoss will be easier for a lot of people, because current Zerg and Terran trends require totally different mindsets (you can't be scared of losing, because you just get so far behind).

I don't really think any race is easier than the others. The problem is everyone saying "play safe, and scout properly" is only really good advice for Protoss. While it's important for other races, new players tend to overthink it and lose games because of it.

0xDEADBEEF

Germany1235 Posts

July 16 2009 18:32 GMT

#52

P is easy at the bottom.

Since Bisu, P is also "easy" at the top. Although Zergs have enjoyed a lot of success lately, and T is strong as it always has been at the pro level where everyone is insanely good at multitasking.

P is also "easy" for foreign top gamers. I don't know about the distribution right now, but 2 years ago or so foreign Ps were really damn strong.

Basically, ever since 2007/Bisu started raping Zergs, and the world copied his builds and improved in mechanics as well, the balance has shifted in favor of P because every *other* race has 1 weak matchup, 1 strong matchup, 1 fair matchup (the mirror). But when looking at P since 2007, they now have 1 strong matchup and 2 fair matchups. No weak matchup anymore.

Furthermore, SC1 is a heavily multitasking-oriented game, and the race which requires the least amount of multitasking is P (relatively speaking) because you can't lose half your army "by accident" and have more time to macro.

Furthermore, almost all top foreigners who went to Korea and were quite successful (even if some left the country again fast) were Protoss (Grrrr, Draco, Nony). Just 1 Terran now, and zero Zergs afaik. So Protoss is/was definitely easy for top foreigners (and not just noobs).

Well, you can add 1 + 1 I guess...
Don't let those iccup C/B gamers fool you just because *they* find P hard.

OneOther

United States10774 Posts

July 16 2009 18:50 GMT

#53

lol this thread is hilariously pathetic. yes, protoss is the easiest at D/D+ ranks where everybody is terrible. why don't you stop crying, get a little better, and then try playing protoss at a higher level? i guarantee you will shut up about the "easy" bullshit

reading this after having lost four PvTs and three PvZs in a row sort of tilts me lol

Smu

Serbia164 Posts

July 16 2009 18:52 GMT

#54

God, so many people biased and defensive about their race ...

It's StarCraft, there is no easy race. Yes, the protoss is the easiest to pick up and reach the high levels with, but it is by no means easy. As having the privilege of playing the most competitive and challenging game there is, we should be above the scrubbery that is complaining about other races being op or too easy. You all watch progames, you all know that in terms of game balance it doesn't get any better on Earth then Starcraft. Even at top levels. The very fact that each race has a representative in the top 3 rated players is just amazing enough. It's not perfect balance, but it's the best.

edit: removed something bleh

Muirhead

United States556 Posts

July 16 2009 18:52 GMT

#55

Chef

10810 Posts

July 16 2009 18:59 GMT

#56

I'm so sick of these blanket statements 'P is easy at low levels' or 'Terran is strongest at the highest levels' but no one ever backs up their statements. Like it's some accepted common knowledge? Why did you even say it then?! AHHHHRGGG!

AzureEye

United States1360 Posts

July 16 2009 18:59 GMT

#57

On July 17 2009 03:05 Zoler wrote:
"Terran is easier" hahahha

Whats so funny Mr. 60 HP worker/Imba range tanks/fastest unit called vultures?

Last time I checked, P army straight up can't win verse Terran army without storm, zealot drops, stasis, flank, etc.

Hmm..Let me just click o (siege) and lay mines in the front (i) and just turtle like a bitch

ThePhan2m

Norway2751 Posts

July 16 2009 19:02 GMT

#58

I'm a Terran, and I've struggled hard on iccup. I've got thoughts over and over again about chageing to protoss. BUT NO! I'm sticking with terran hardmode. I remember some time ago, when I used to play protoss alot more (still played terran 10 times more) some people in my clan said that my toss was better. Funny, says all about the race.

Chef

10810 Posts

July 16 2009 19:04 GMT

#59

On July 17 2009 03:59 AzureEye wrote:

Show nested quote +

Yes, P has trouble beating a stationary Terran army if it uses no tactics and just suicides into them. The same goes for Zerg and Bio TvZ. Sorry this game demands you make your units move around, it would be much more fun if everything was decided by how many units you can build.

On July 17 2009 04:02 ThePhan2m wrote:
I'm a Terran, and I've struggled hard on iccup. I've got thoughts over and over again about chageing to protoss. BUT NO! I'm sticking with terran hardmode. I remember some time ago, when I used to play protoss alot more (still played terran 10 times more) some people in my clan said that my toss was better. Funny, says all about the race.

It says it suits your play style better. Some people switch from Toss to another race and find they do loads better too. Sometimes people who play a race refuse to use their Dark Templar, or their Vultures, or their Mutalisks in any very aggressive ways. But then they switch to another race and remember how annoying one of those units was to be used against them and abuse it all the time.