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merz
Sweden2760 Posts
I must pass on these questions myself, and I have one only answer to cover both of those questions. + Show Spoiler + God doesn't exist But i'm pretty sure that's not the discussion you're heading towards so i'll just leave it there. For your sake, I hope you'll figure it out, I don't judge you, whether you remain christian or not, everyone has the right to believe in what they want. | ||
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MoRe_mInErAls
Canada1210 Posts
On March 21 2008 06:26 geometryb wrote: god works in mysterious ways You mean like writing "Yes my child" on the blog's page 2 Teamliquid banner? That's not very mysterious at all. Either you must be wrong or there is no god. | ||
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rpf
United States2705 Posts
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jtan
Sweden5891 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + niteReloded "Many people say "If God loves us, how can he let inocent people die." I dont care about that. If the whole religion thing is true, it really doesnt matter what happens on this earth. If an innocent child dies, it goes to heaven, so what more can we ask? so the child is OK.An other thing is bothering me however. If God loves us 1000X more than a father loves his child, how can he let any of us go to hell? Why doesnt he bother to tell us we're going in the wrong direction?" - God wants faith from us, is the thing that keeps Christianity close with him .Imagine if you don’t believe in God and suddenly God talks and tells you and says that you are going to hell since you don’t believe. You would be a fool if you didn’t believe him then because he just appeared in front of you taking away all doubts of his existence and he just assure you that there is indeed a God, it would require no faith if God would do this , but what he wants is like John 20:29 says “Jesus said to him, "Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed.". I mean do you buy this? It makes no sense at all and doesn't answer your questions. For me, everything just makes a lot more sense without a god in the background. But you also say that you "feel" god exists. Can you elaborate on that? | ||
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jtan
Sweden5891 Posts
On March 21 2008 07:56 rpf wrote: I was playing devil's advocate; I'm agnostic, bordering on atheist. I was trying to answer the question posed in the original post. Why are people still calling themselves agnostic? I mean there's not a single atheist I know that claims to be 100% sure god does not exist. And like christopher Hitchens ones put it: If you're an agostic you do not believe that god exists => you're an atheist! | ||
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niteReloaded
Croatia5282 Posts
I also love that "yes, my child" on page 2, ty whoever made it. Anway to start replying: On March 21 2008 03:05 {88}iNcontroL wrote: And yet I'm not the one asking a gaming forum if God loves me. Sounds like YOU have a big issue  i got more issues than you can imagine, but im at least trying to understand and solve my problems. Dude, you're probly a cool guy, but i can tell that you are very rarely speeking sincerely as in whats really on your mind in the moment of typing. You seem to always wrap your posts in layers of sarcasm and irony. probly to protect yourself. you need to learn to open up a bit. i may be tottaly wrong, but thats my impression of you. On March 21 2008 03:37 ilj.psa wrote: - God wants faith from us, is the thing that keeps Christianity close with him .Imagine if you don’t believe in God and suddenly God talks and tells you and says that you are going to hell since you don’t believe. You would be a fool if you didn’t believe him then because he just appeared in front of you taking away all doubts of his existence and he just assure you that there is indeed a God, it would require no faith if God would do this , but what he wants is like John 20:29 says “Jesus said to him, "Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed.". You see, you make it sound like a game. So what if everyone knew God was real? So what if everyone would be saved? Do we really need to see people go to hell to make it fair? Like I said, nobody wants to go to hell. People with limited intelect might accept the words they hear in the church more easily than people who are used to relying on their reason. So these same words will not have the same weight in their heads. It will be easy for the first person to accept it, it will be hard for the second one and yet, someone might say "you all heard the same words, some chose not to accept them" and make it sound like its our fault. -- snet, you see, i knew you could make a good post. people for some reason feel they have to make a flame-proof post before they show what they really feel. -- ShmotZ its called the 10 commandments, those are gods rules, and just like any other father you would find if you disobey his rules he'll punish you , and Hell to God is his punishment of you living an unjustly life and he does tell you are going in the wrong direction you ever feel guilty about something? or maybe something doesnt seem comfortable obviously thats because its wrong your supposed to use the 10 commands to build a safe zone of what to do and not to do. no father will punish you because you didnt listen to him. He will perhaps punish you to make you learn a lesson for life, so that you dont get burnt in a bigger thing when you grow up a bit. But, here, heaven and hell are the final destinations, either first or the second. Nothing really demands punishment for eternity. If you are going to punish someone so hard, at least make sure the person clearly understood whats at stake, give him insight to everything and if he still decides to go to hell, then let him. (this wouldnt happen, ever.) Its pathetic to think that thats the gods system. We, the beings equal to nothing when compared to him, have use our faulty logic and resist are inborn urges to navigate to heaven. Its like making a blind crippled man walk the rope to get across a river(hell) to the other side, heaven. ---- rpf, what you say about natural disasters and other things, its the same thing i mentioned in my OP. Lets assume that the story is true, and this life really determines the after life. Is it then really important what happens here if the other life is for eternity? Do you mind losing a few battles to win the war? --- jtan, yeah, before I used to feel that I'm really living the true life. I was calm and at peace. When I prayed, i sometimes really felt like im connected to God. The night when i really felt i should become a priest, i started crying coz my emotions were insane. One time when I finished with my confession, on my way home, the world felt perfect, i wanted to hug everyone. Even now, i still feel it in the back of my mind. I guess i told myself, if God really needs me, he'll have to make my mind cooperate. If he really does love us so much, cant he get off his lazy ass and do something? (notice how im allways saying stuff like this, hoping that he might actually pick up on my words and react) I managed to make a half-assed psihological explanation for basically everything i just said, so im kinda confused... i feel one thing, yet my mind pulls me in different directions. ---- I read all the posts of you guys and i appreciate all of them. I commented only on those that i felt i had to reply to or had something to add. thanks guys | ||
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HamerD
United Kingdom1922 Posts
I think the general idea is that God cannot control the direction of your soul unless you give him control, and he cannot take control if you are impure and unholy. He cannot enter your life if you do not accept him, and therefore cannot save you even though he wants to. The general idea is that the greater your sin or potential sin, the greater his reward when you finally suppress it and put yourself in his embrace. ps nitereloaded, you are significantly more intellectually mature than 90% of the people I know . | ||
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jtan
Sweden5891 Posts
On March 21 2008 09:36 HamerD wrote: Nitereloaded, I think the general idea is that God cannot control the direction of your soul unless you give him control, and he cannot take control if you are impure and unholy. He cannot enter your life if you do not accept him, and therefore cannot save you even though he wants to. The general idea is that the greater your sin or potential sin, the greater his reward when you finally suppress it and put yourself in his embrace. But that's basicly saying you should just surrender your mind. I don't know exactly how nite feels, but stopping to think about these things is no solution. | ||
Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On March 21 2008 09:43 jtan wrote: But that's basicly saying you should just surrender your mind. But blind faith is ok when a Christian does it, and not a Muslim. Read my freaking post, nite. You proved it to yourself already, you just don't realize it. Goodness exists independent of religion. | ||
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niteReloaded
Croatia5282 Posts
the bible says he's omnipotent, so who am i to allow or forbid anything? And that stupid good shepard story, the sheep didn allow anything, he just grabbed her... The story does say that he leaves 99 other sheep to save that 1. So in this world, to save 1 by 1, i'll have to wait exactly 3476 gazzillion years for him to save me. ^^ If they simply said, god cant do anything if you dont allow him, he's not omnipotent, it might be easier for me to accept. --- jtan, i know thinking about things like this can be overwhelming and is perhaps wasting time, but i still think its ok to analyze stuff that bother you. I actually feel better now, like something's off my chest. Now that i let everything out, i might be able to look at it better. jibba, a religion that awards you for killing people is bad, coz that's one thing all religions agree on; life is precious and noone is allowed to take another man's life. i dont know much about islam, but people mostly dislike it coz of jihad-suicide-bombers that go to heaven. however, If i remember corectly, jihad itself is never mentioned in Kur'an. | ||
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Meta
United States6225 Posts
hell doesn't seem so bad. the way i see it, satan was the first guy to really see through all the "god" bullshit. so how can he be mean to the people who agree with him? plus, i asked for satan to bless me on my chem test, and i seemed to do pretty well. | ||
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parkin
1082 Posts
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Meta
United States6225 Posts
On March 21 2008 09:36 HamerD wrote: Nitereloaded, I think the general idea is that God cannot control the direction of your soul unless you give him control, and he cannot take control if you are impure and unholy. He cannot enter your life if you do not accept him, and therefore cannot save you even though he wants to. The general idea is that the greater your sin or potential sin, the greater his reward when you finally suppress it and put yourself in his embrace. ps nitereloaded, you are significantly more intellectually mature than 90% of the people I know .that bolded part is hilarious. did you just say god can't do something? an omnipotent being can't do something? this is why i think religion is bullshit. it's full of contradiction, and nobody agrees with anybody else. nobody seems to know what the fuck is going on with that whole trinity thing. why do you think there are so many subdivisions in the churches? it's because everybody sees the bullshit in it to some degree, but most are too pussy to see the whole picture. no matter what religion you choose you're in the minority. so why deal with that shit? it's all bullshit and wrong and it's holding humanity back. sorry, that rant will get me a lot of flames, but i don't give a shit. read a book other than the bible for once. | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
jibba, It was sarcasm... jesus. I meant read my earlier post in the thread. The one before I started making snide comments like these.a religion that awards you for killing people is bad, coz that's one thing all religions agree on; life is precious and noone is allowed to take another man's life. i dont know much about islam, but people mostly dislike it coz of jihad-suicide-bombers that go to heaven. however, If i remember corectly, jihad itself is never mentioned in Kur'an. God killed a lot more people in the Bible than Satan did fyi, | ||
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jtan
Sweden5891 Posts
On March 21 2008 10:02 parkin wrote: If the universe is infinite, there must be a god somewhere. This is totally irrelevant to the OP, but 1. The statement is wrong, just because something is infinite it doesn't mean it contains everything 2. The universe is not infinite | ||
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BaDayOri
Korea (South)469 Posts
On March 21 2008 10:05 Meta wrote: that bolded part is hilarious. did you just say god can't do something? an omnipotent being can't do something? this is why i think religion is bullshit. it's full of contradiction, and nobody agrees with anybody else. nobody seems to know what the fuck is going on with that whole trinity thing. why do you think there are so many subdivisions in the churches? it's because everybody sees the bullshit in it to some degree, but most are too pussy to see the whole picture. no matter what religion you choose you're in the minority. so why deal with that shit? it's all bullshit and wrong and it's holding humanity back. sorry, that rant will get me a lot of flames, but i don't give a shit. read a book other than the bible for once. i think HamerD is a bit misinformed..which proves your point about christians disagreeing. but if you mean denominations by subdivisions your point isnt valid. There are seperate denominations in the church generally due to different interpretations of the Bible on practices and worship methods..not on what actually occurred and who God is, the trinity, etc. (except for some denominations that most people would label as a "cult") 2. The universe is not infinite proof? | ||
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Sadist
United States7292 Posts
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niteReloaded
Croatia5282 Posts
On March 21 2008 10:06 Jibba wrote: It was sarcasm... jesus. I meant read my earlier post in the thread. The one before I started making snide comments like these. God killed a lot more people in the Bible than Satan did fyi, yeah, my sarcasm detector went down a few hours ago, i need sleep. cya guys, i'll probly check this out tommorow... im gettin kinda fed up, i guess enough thinking about this for today. | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On March 21 2008 10:23 BaDayOri wrote: i think HamerD is a bit misinformed..which proves your point about christians disagreeing. but if you mean denominations by subdivisions your point isnt valid. There are seperate denominations in the church generally due to different interpretations of the Bible on practices and worship methods..not on what actually occurred and who God is, the trinity, etc. No, there are fundamental differences between the beliefs of different sects of Christianity, besides just how to "access" God. Many of the middle eastern Christian sects, for instance. Even in the Western world, Predestination is a vastly different religious belief than what is seen in Catholicism. | ||
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._.
1133 Posts
Obviously TL = God. OT: Read The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins. Its a very comprehensive book that will answer practically every question about religion and rationale. Here's the first chapter to get you interested: http://richarddawkins.net/firstChapter,1 RPF: Yeah I assumed you were agnostic, but I find agnosticism to be fairly poor and sunken when you look at its thresholds carefully. | ||
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