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im totally torn apart. I feel that there's a God that loves us, my mind tells me different. For the last few years, the thought of becoming a priest was always in the back of my mind coz the christianity thing felt so REAL for me. I was pretty sure I felt that 'calling' as they call it.
Anyways, I always think "what if there is no god, and i become a priest, gg life."
To say it in short, my thoughs were that the good feeling Christians get when they are related to God, is the feeling of accepting themselves, allowing them to love themselves because "if God loves me, how can i not love myself?"
We can only be happy if we love and accept ourselves, but if you do it on your own (without the God in the equation), the society often treats you as self-centered and all other bad words i dont know in english. So, right now, thats my interpretation of religion.
Anyways, almost every day the thought of becoming a priest comes to my head (even with the girl in the picture) and I keep making rationalizations to make it go away. Right now, these are the reasons I dont believe in God:
1. Many people say "If God loves us, how can he let inocent people die." I dont care about that. If the whole religion thing is true, it really doesnt matter what happens on this earth. If an innocent child dies, it goes to heaven, so what more can we ask? so the child is OK.
An other thing is bothering me however. If God loves us 1000X more than a father loves his child, how can he let any of us go to hell? Why doesnt he bother to tell us we're going in the wrong direction?
People might say, its all in the bible, read it, its up to you to make the decision. But is it?
If you see your child about to fall from a tree, and you said to him that its dangerous to climb trees, would you say to him "Its up to you to listen to me.". No, you wouldnt. You would jump, scream, and grab him, hug him and tell him again not to do it anymore.
None of us wants to go to hell. Those who live their lives in a way that will reserve them a ticket in hell certainly dont do it on purpose i.e. to get to hell. They dont believe in hell. They are only trying to be happy. So is it really our fault that the word of God wasnt interperted well enough to us? Is it so hard for God to send an angel to each of us and say "look dude, dont do that shit anymore, you'll end up badly. Be good, God really loves you and wants you to be good."
What ever happened to that good shepard story: a sheep strays away and the shepard comes, grabs her, puts her on his shoulders and takes her to safety. he doesnt say to the sheep "didnt you read the manual?! It's your fault, burn in hell!" If god is so powerful and smart, then we are nothing but sheep, and we need to be directed the right way.
2. People often say, God gave his sons life for you, what more can we ask//why are you ungrateful?
Well, Jesus is not dead, he was dead for 3 days. He came to earth, told a few stories, went thru a torture that btw millions of people get thru every day. But those people die for real, he came back to life. thats ez.
If i could change it, i would make jesus NOT die. I would only make god send an angel to each of us. So what if jesus died, majority doesnt believe it anyway. Or is that the whole point? Would it be boring for God if every one of us got saved? Would it be imba? is there not enough room in heaven so some simply have to fail the tests?
(If there are people who would like to discuss this more, plz bookmark the thread so you dont forget, blogs get cluttered up fast.)
+ Show Spoiler [about the last blog entry about the mo…] +http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?currentpage=1&topic_id=68250
 
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dont worry, there is no god fortunately, so you dont have to think about these silly things.
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Snet
United States3573 Posts
#1
If you get to the point in your religious field trip that you are happy for innocent babies when they die, then you need to get out of that religion ASAP. There is NOTHING good about dying, especially when it's children. Doesn't your brain set off a signal for you, something like, "THIS IS ALL BULLSHIT", when a religion brings you to feel your life here is nothing but preparation, or a waiting room, for your life with god in heaven? What a depressing thing to believe.
# 2
Well, it's not like Jesus was a magic potion and when he died we all were healed. I think it was just supposed to symbolize his love for us. However, I think an all powerful, all knowing god could come up with a better way to let people know he loves us besides torturing and mutilating his only child. o_o.....
Anyway, being a priest wouldn't be too bad. I mean, how hard can life be when all you do is re-summarize the same sermons year after year? Also exploiting the average christian for their money can be quite rewarding. Also, dare I even mention the newest hobby of modern day priests? Enjoy yourself.
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The strongest human instinct is to protect oneself from death. If god made humans, why would he give us such fear of death?
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Spenguin
Australia3316 Posts
On March 20 2008 22:15 Snet wrote:
# 2
Well, it's not like Jesus was a magic potion and when he died we all were healed. I think it was just supposed to symbolize his love for us. However, I think an all powerful, all knowing god could come up with a better way to let people know he loves us besides torturing and mutilating his only child. o_o.....
Anyway, being a priest wouldn't be too bad. I mean, how hard can life be when all you do is re-summarize the same sermons year after year? Also exploiting the average christian for their money can be quite rewarding. Also, dare I even mention the newest hobby of modern day priests? Enjoy yourself.
That is why not everyone can be priests I LOL'd though.
I get the same feeling, but mine is where the f is God, although cynicism does take the load off of the mental baggage.
So for you, yeah go ahead be a priest,who the f will stop you? God? If you want to feel closer to a being that the human mind has accepted to answer all things unanswerable, go ahead. It will make you fill at peace with yourself, I get the feeling when helping someone out, although, no one wants to be helped anymore 
GOOD LUCK!
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@snet
its a childish post.
I dont know how much of christianity you know, but i for example, read the bible, went to church for a long time. I really tried to cover all the angles of the game. but i found this thing that bugs me.
You on the other hand, simply reject the basics of the religion -- just because.
Its not the right approach imo. You need to try to understand something before deciding if its good or not.
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Snet
United States3573 Posts
That's a very common way of handling someone who doesn't believe your religion.
"You don't know as much as me!"
I was actually a Christian for 15 years, with a very religious family. I've read the Bible almost 3 times in my life, completely. In addition to regular church, I went to private Christian schools up until 9th grade, and youth group every Sunday where we spent hours just memorizing Bible verses.
And yes, I can easily understand how not enjoying the death of little babies is very childish; my deepest apologies, Reloaded.
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On March 20 2008 22:10 MarklarMarklar wrote:
dont worry, there is no god fortunately, so you dont have to think about these silly things.
/agree
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Don't worry, God (should he exist) sure doesn't love you after such a silly blog entry. Problem solved.
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United States22883 Posts
On March 20 2008 22:51 Snet wrote:
And yes, I can easily understand how not enjoying the death of little babies is very childish; my deepest apologies, Reloaded.
This is the best of all possible worlds!
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On March 20 2008 21:50 niteReloaded wrote:
im totally torn apart. I feel that there's a God that loves us, my mind tells me different. For the last few years, the thought of becoming a priest was always in the back of my mind coz the christianity thing felt so REAL for me. I was pretty sure I felt that 'calling' as they call it.
Anyways, I always think "what if there is no god, and i become a priest, gg life."
Well it all comes down to what kind of priest you'd like to become.
- The action priest
The one that runs around on battlefields giving people the last goodbye words in their last minutes of unbaerable pain
- The africanized priest in africa
The one that builds up something, cares for the poor folkes that have nothing or lost everything
- The enforcer priest
The guy that just walks around looking to pull people to his religion and starts discussions that are not helping at all right at the moment
- the shield priest
Basicaly the guy that just defends his relligion at any given moment and is more of a servant to the church than to god.
- the ninja priest
doesn't exist but would be kickass in my opinion
- the white village white priest / swell priest
All he does is repeat the same stuff for 50 years over and over, thinks he's so hip because he finaly caught up to the latest trends and thinks he reached everyone now because of his "swellness"
- the exorcist priest
Constantly on acid, has lost his connection to god but keeps killing evil spirits to pay for cigarettes and alkohole
- the sleeping-monster priest
The one that just is a priest, noone gives much attention to him but when shit starts to rain he kicks a special coffin in the church followed by a combination of precisely pronounced amens and then takes out of the magically unlocked coffin a gun so badass everyone goes "woahhh!"
- the priest with no license
Bends history constantly to make it sound cooler. Talks to dead people, talks to god, sometimes is god and of course makes use of the phrase "god would want us to..." followed by something he would definetly end up in hell if there was a god.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
if you are going to have a god, make him love you at least.
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On March 21 2008 00:15 Jayson X wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2008 21:50 niteReloaded wrote:
im totally torn apart. I feel that there's a God that loves us, my mind tells me different. For the last few years, the thought of becoming a priest was always in the back of my mind coz the christianity thing felt so REAL for me. I was pretty sure I felt that 'calling' as they call it.
Anyways, I always think "what if there is no god, and i become a priest, gg life." - the ninja priest doesn't exist but would be kickass in my opinion - the exorcist priest Constantly on acid, has lost his connection to god but keeps killing evil spirits to pay for cigarettes and alkohole
hahahahaha..
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Go pick up the book, The God Delusion, by Richard Dawkins.
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It is not regarded selfish to not believe in god where I live. You can be a spiritual person and support other people without beliving in god. There is no need in giving up on the big questions without religion.
On the subject of hell. Many christians don't believe in hell. They can be good without fearing gods punishment. I don't like the concept of hell. There are many good people and their motivition of being true doesn't come from fear.
A christian god doesn't interfere directly in peoples lives. Adam and Eve lived in paradise they were protected and sheltered by god. Thats why they didn't know good/evil and responsibility.
We are not in the garden. Shit happens to us. The gift we have gotten to deal with this live is freedom and responsibility. Learn good from evil that is our faith. If god would protect us from everything we would lose our freedom and responsibilty because we wouldn't have to deal with everything.
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Physician
United States4146 Posts
Trick question. Assumption of existence of GOD is a prerequisite. Pass.
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The first problem was a pretty big problem in medieval philosophy. Some philosophers said that evil was caused by the fall (Adam's sin). Some even said that some evil is simply without cause. It gets even uglier if you add the problem of predestination. Augustine believed that you're predestined to go to hell or heaven even before you're born. If God knows everything, and can never be wrong, he knows where you'll end up, and you can't change that shit or He would be wrong, so yeah.
There's tons of problems with Christianity. If you ask me, it makes for a very bad view of the world, and your case is a very good example. You pose questions to which no one has a satisfying answer. My advice: look for something better, christianity is really too outdated, people are too critical and curious these days, the 'God works in mysterious ways' thingie is not at all satisfying anymore.
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"- the exorcist priest
Constantly on acid, has lost his connection to god but keeps killing evil spirits to pay for cigarettes and alkohole" -best.
anyways, there is no god.
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I love how the op is the only one questioning anything, everyone else is just full of themselves.
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United States24612 Posts
I don't think confusion about whether or not God exists necessarily needs to be a road block for becoming a Priest. You can do good things or bad things as a Priest, whether or not God exists. It isn't necessarily a waste if you guess wrong.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On March 21 2008 01:34 fight_or_flight wrote:
I love how the op is the only one questioning anything, everyone else is just full of themselves.
maybe the questioning has been done, and done better, but done and done with.
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United States22883 Posts
On March 21 2008 00:15 Jayson X wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2008 21:50 niteReloaded wrote:
im totally torn apart. I feel that there's a God that loves us, my mind tells me different. For the last few years, the thought of becoming a priest was always in the back of my mind coz the christianity thing felt so REAL for me. I was pretty sure I felt that 'calling' as they call it.
Anyways, I always think "what if there is no god, and i become a priest, gg life." Well it all comes down to what kind of priest you'd like to become.
You forgot shadowpriest.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
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@snet,
no. the fact that you know i dont enjoy babies dieing, and the fact that you know stuff about christianity and you are STILL talking about retarded shit that is happening in every aspect of life as well as christianity. (bad priests etc.) I would expect a little appreciation for a religion you've known for so long. Or are you too stupid to see the good stuff about christianity?
So many things from christianity are so wise and true. I would have no problems living according to it, coz it seems right. There are things i dont agree with, but not many.
However my problem is, im questioning the very foundation of this entire religion. How can I talk to people if i dont believe in it?
On March 20 2008 23:12 Naib wrote:
Don't worry, God (should he exist) sure doesn't love you after such a silly blog entry. Problem solved.
im actually tryin to piss him off, maybe he'll send me a sign. (maybe i get banned by Jesus... "i have my reasons" lol)
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also, KaasZerg and ManBearPig, ty for the serious posts. It really is complicated.
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micronesia, i think so too, but what could i do now? I would like to be like a spiritual teacher, but i cant become a catholic priest if i dont believe in the basics of religion. I cant just walk in the streets like a lunatic. I must be able to earn for food or something.
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oneof them, care to share your wisdom?
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incontrol, you got issues, i noticed that a while ago.
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Really, you shouldnt care about what other people think, simply because the whole damn Atheist vs Christianity thing is completely biased on both sides youll never get a reasonable answer. Just do what will make you happy in the long run and what you think is right.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
And yet I'm not the one asking a gaming forum if God loves me. Sounds like YOU have a big issue 
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ATHEIST RISE THERE IS NO GOD!
Tipical of teamliquid
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niteReloded
"Many people say "If God loves us, how can he let inocent people die." I dont care about that. If the whole religion thing is true, it really doesnt matter what happens on this earth. If an innocent child dies, it goes to heaven, so what more can we ask? so the child is OK.An other thing is bothering me however. If God loves us 1000X more than a father loves his child, how can he let any of us go to hell? Why doesnt he bother to tell us we're going in the wrong direction?"
- God wants faith from us, is the thing that keeps Christianity close with him .Imagine if you don’t believe in God and suddenly God talks and tells you and says that you are going to hell since you don’t believe.
You would be a fool if you didn’t believe him then because he just appeared in front of you taking away all doubts of his existence and he just assure you that there is indeed a God, it would require no faith if God would do this , but what he wants is like John 20:29 says “Jesus said to him, "Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed.".
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Snet
United States3573 Posts
@snet,
no. the fact that you know i dont enjoy babies dieing, and the fact that you know stuff about christianity and you are STILL talking about retarded shit that is happening in every aspect of life as well as christianity. (bad priests etc.) I would expect a little appreciation for a religion you've known for so long. Or are you too stupid to see the good stuff about christianity?
If the whole religion thing is true, it really doesnt matter what happens on this earth. If an innocent child dies, it goes to heaven, so what more can we ask? so the child is OK.
Minus my sarcasm, my comment still stands. Thinking it is ok when children are killed is a disgusting mentality that some christians are lured into. I know this wasn't the focus of your blog, and I didn't intend to make it that way. So yes, in whatever religion you follow, if it makes you feel it is ok when people die, then I believe you missed the whole point of the religion, and you need to sit down and think really hard about what you're believing.
To answer you, no I don't really respect christianity. I respect the Bible, I've actually read it and aside from the fairy-tale like stories there's some great life lessons you can learn. I do not respect churches, in my experience with more churches then I can count on my hands it's all about: money, hell, more money, hell, recruiting more people, getting more money, hell, money, money, hell, recruit, and hell.
Read the Bible, apply why you learn, and live your life. For me, I don't believe in god, hell, or anything like that, but I do still enjoy learning about religions.
My advice, don't become a priest, become a religious scholar. Study all of the religions, learn all that you can, and apply what you believe can be true. Don't be drone listening to a certain religion.
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Well if there is a god then he loves me alot cuz my life rocks.
I don't think there is one though, because... well if I think there is one then so what? Nothing has changed(I still love the same, still talk the same, and go to school) but I had to think all those extra thoughts(praise some entity, try to attend church, w/e) which takes up my brain space for me to bother.
Really of church is one of your good hobbies you should make it a professional hobby, and have fun in doing so.
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Snet is fairly accurate, I agree with his point of view.
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I disagree with "if God loves me, how can i not love myself?" because we Christians are taught to accept how incomparable and worthless we are in front of God, but He loves us regardless. We put heavy emphasis on God's grace. So I wouldnt necessarily say that the "good feeling" that Christians get is from accepting ourselves..perhaps from knowing that God loves us regardless.
On March 21 2008 01:25 ManBearPig wrote:
My advice: look for something better, christianity is really too outdated, people are too critical and curious these days, the 'God works in mysterious ways' thingie is not at all satisfying anymore.
since when has christianity been about satisfying ourselves?
but honestly i dont know where i stand in my faith right now either
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United States22883 Posts
READ THIS BECAUSE IT'S IMPORTANT
So many things from christianity are so wise and true. I would have no problems living according to it, coz it seems right. There are things i dont agree with, but not many.
Here's the thing. Just as you say, Christianity supports some very good things, but it also supports things you don't agree with. Now, if what you've been taught is truly what God wants, then you should accept all of it. If you can't do that (and I sympathize, it's very difficult to agree with a lot of the things) then you should ask yourself what is causing you to judge some parts of the religion as good and other parts as bad. If you know some parts are good and other parts are bad, then there's something external to religion that's telling you so.
That's my take on morality. It's universal, man made (just as religion is), but also helpful to society. I suggest you read some Bertrand Russel. The point of secular humanism is that people can be moral, and good because of our own merit, and not by relying on a mystical or divine being. If the latter were true, then you'd follow every aspect of Christianity rather than judging some parts to be good and other parts to be bad.
since when has christianity been about satisfying ourselves? You don't like to satisfy your curiosity? Use logic, reason and evidence to answer questions?
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hmmm well a lot of what you're talking about deals with how we really view the world, and the way the mind wishes the world was.
Theres not really a point in telling you my opinions on the subjects you dicussed as the majority of the answers are personal truths if they hold any truth at all. Instead I can cite a really good book that discusses how man handles these unsolvable problems.
The Myth of Sisyphus by Albert Camus
Wikipedia quote:
The Myth of Sisyphus is a philosophical essay by Albert Camus. It comprises about 120 pages and was published originally in 1942 in French as Le Mythe de Sisyphe; the English translation by Justin O'Brien followed in 1955.
In the essay, Camus introduces his philosophy of the absurd: man's futile search for meaning, unity and clarity in the face of an unintelligible world devoid of God and eternity. Does the realization of the absurd require suicide? Camus answers: "No. It requires revolt." He then outlines several approaches to the absurd life. The final chapter compares the absurdity of man's life with the situation of Sisyphus, a figure of Greek mythology who was condemned to repeat forever the same meaningless task of pushing a rock up a mountain, only to see it roll down again.
Eh just my 2cts
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[quote]If God loves us 1000X more than a father loves his child, how can he let any of us go to hell? Why doesnt he bother to tell us we're going in the wrong direction?[quote]
its called the 10 commandments, those are gods rules, and just like any other father you would find if you disobey his rules he'll punish you , and Hell to God is his punishment of you living an unjustly life and he does tell you are going in the wrong direction you ever feel guilty about something? or maybe something doesnt seem comfortable obviously thats because its wrong your supposed to use the 10 commands to build a safe zone of what to do and not to do.
[quote]For the last few years, the thought of becoming a priest was always in the back of my mind coz the christianity thing felt so REAL for me. I was pretty sure I felt that 'calling' as they call it.
Anyways, I always think "what if there is no god, and i become a priest, gg life."[quote]
if your going to question is there really a god, or your own faith, i dont think you should become a priest then, priests are supposed to like sheperds and lead the herd to heaven, but if you cant completly your religion the only thing youll be doing is condemming there eternal souls.
[quote]Well, Jesus is not dead, he was dead for 3 days. He came to earth, told a few stories, went thru a torture that btw millions of people get thru every day. But those people die for real, he came back to life. thats ez.[quote]
here your just summing up his life, this is like me saying that you were born, then you died,
skip the fact that you found the cure for cancer, and aids all you did was live and die, you have to remember jesus died for our sins, so that we could have another chance to get back into heaven and be forgiven by god for killing his son, remember god used to flood the earth, hed burn citys he wasnt so forgiving >.>.... so dont take what you have for granted
you sound more agnostic the christian ._. if you are agnostic you can go ahead and ignore this whole post
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Calgary25969 Posts
Yes, my child. I love God threads.
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Well, using logic, we can't prove that god exists or does not exist. God must first exist before he can love.
Assuming he exists, how would we know if he experiences love? How do we define "love" in the first place?
Assuming god exists, I would argue that god does not experience love. If he loves us, then why do natural disasters occur? Why did a tsunami kill thousands of people in Asia? Why did Hurricane Katrina almost destroy New Orleans?
So no, I would argue that god does not experience love, assuming he exists.
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On March 21 2008 05:20 rpf wrote:
Well, using logic, we can't prove that god exists or does not exist. God must first exist before he can love.
Assuming he exists, how would we know if he experiences love? How do we define "love" in the first place?
Assuming god exists, I would argue that god does not experience love. If he loves us, then why do natural disasters occur? Why did a tsunami kill thousands of people in Asia? Why did Hurricane Katrina almost destroy New Orleans?
So no, I would argue that god does not experience love, assuming he exists.
and before god can exist the eternal has to exist first? lol.
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Dinosaurs.
We know abso-100%-fucking true they existed, but no mention in the freaking Bible.
When I used to go to church with my family I asked my Mormon buddy why, and he just says it is just so, and smiled a real blank smile. WTF.
God loves you in a way so impossibly awesome but if you do wrong he'll send you to hell into an infernal torture of never return.
I mean seriously, the Old Testament is all about God having a PMS killing off everybody, but suddenly, after he has a kid, he's all COOL and MOTHER FUCKING MERCIFUL.
I mean jeez, there are so many contradictory statements in it, acts of incest, Leviticus bullshit and messages of logical fallacies any half intelligent man can see.
And to RPF: "Do you think unicorns have hollow horns?" "Can you prove there is a super Nintendo floating on the rings of Saturn in another parallel universe?" "What am I if I am not you?" Some questions are simply too absurd to answer, let us not be so open minded that our heads fall off, accordance with our "God given brains and minds".
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god works in mysterious ways
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Well, I actually wrote quite a bit until I realized that what I was writing about didn't really suit as an answer for your questions.
I must pass on these questions myself, and I have one only answer to cover both of those questions.
+ Show Spoiler +
But i'm pretty sure that's not the discussion you're heading towards so i'll just leave it there. For your sake, I hope you'll figure it out, I don't judge you, whether you remain christian or not, everyone has the right to believe in what they want.
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On March 21 2008 06:26 geometryb wrote:
god works in mysterious ways
You mean like writing "Yes my child" on the blog's page 2 Teamliquid banner?
That's not very mysterious at all. Either you must be wrong or there is no god.
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I was playing devil's advocate; I'm agnostic, bordering on atheist. I was trying to answer the question posed in the original post.
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It's really hard to let go of your religion. Especially if you invested a lot of time and energy in it, it's always easier to buy a simple answer to your questions. Like ilj.psa's post.
+ Show Spoiler +niteReloded
"Many people say "If God loves us, how can he let inocent people die." I dont care about that. If the whole religion thing is true, it really doesnt matter what happens on this earth. If an innocent child dies, it goes to heaven, so what more can we ask? so the child is OK.An other thing is bothering me however. If God loves us 1000X more than a father loves his child, how can he let any of us go to hell? Why doesnt he bother to tell us we're going in the wrong direction?"
- God wants faith from us, is the thing that keeps Christianity close with him .Imagine if you don’t believe in God and suddenly God talks and tells you and says that you are going to hell since you don’t believe.
You would be a fool if you didn’t believe him then because he just appeared in front of you taking away all doubts of his existence and he just assure you that there is indeed a God, it would require no faith if God would do this , but what he wants is like John 20:29 says “Jesus said to him, "Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed.".
I mean do you buy this? It makes no sense at all and doesn't answer your questions.
For me, everything just makes a lot more sense without a god in the background. But you also say that you "feel" god exists. Can you elaborate on that?
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On March 21 2008 07:56 rpf wrote:
I was playing devil's advocate; I'm agnostic, bordering on atheist. I was trying to answer the question posed in the original post.
Why are people still calling themselves agnostic? I mean there's not a single atheist I know that claims to be 100% sure god does not exist.
And like christopher Hitchens ones put it:
If you're an agostic you do not believe that god exists => you're an atheist!
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i love it how delicate threads like this have to go thru loads of horseshit I'm-tough posts before people finally start typing what they think. Im glad we have some good posts now, i certainly appreciate it.
I also love that "yes, my child" on page 2, ty whoever made it.
Anway to start replying:
On March 21 2008 03:05 {88}iNcontroL wrote:And yet I'm not the one asking a gaming forum if God loves me. Sounds like YOU have a big issue
i got more issues than you can imagine, but im at least trying to understand and solve my problems. Dude, you're probly a cool guy, but i can tell that you are very rarely speeking sincerely as in whats really on your mind in the moment of typing. You seem to always wrap your posts in layers of sarcasm and irony. probly to protect yourself. you need to learn to open up a bit. i may be tottaly wrong, but thats my impression of you.
On March 21 2008 03:37 ilj.psa wrote:
- God wants faith from us, is the thing that keeps Christianity close with him .Imagine if you don’t believe in God and suddenly God talks and tells you and says that you are going to hell since you don’t believe.
You would be a fool if you didn’t believe him then because he just appeared in front of you taking away all doubts of his existence and he just assure you that there is indeed a God, it would require no faith if God would do this , but what he wants is like John 20:29 says “Jesus said to him, "Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed.".
You see, you make it sound like a game. So what if everyone knew God was real? So what if everyone would be saved? Do we really need to see people go to hell to make it fair?
Like I said, nobody wants to go to hell. People with limited intelect might accept the words they hear in the church more easily than people who are used to relying on their reason.
So these same words will not have the same weight in their heads. It will be easy for the first person to accept it, it will be hard for the second one and yet, someone might say "you all heard the same words, some chose not to accept them" and make it sound like its our fault.
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snet, you see, i knew you could make a good post. people for some reason feel they have to make a flame-proof post before they show what they really feel.
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ShmotZ
its called the 10 commandments, those are gods rules, and just like any other father you would find if you disobey his rules he'll punish you , and Hell to God is his punishment of you living an unjustly life and he does tell you are going in the wrong direction you ever feel guilty about something? or maybe something doesnt seem comfortable obviously thats because its wrong your supposed to use the 10 commands to build a safe zone of what to do and not to do.
no father will punish you because you didnt listen to him. He will perhaps punish you to make you learn a lesson for life, so that you dont get burnt in a bigger thing when you grow up a bit. But, here, heaven and hell are the final destinations, either first or the second. Nothing really demands punishment for eternity. If you are going to punish someone so hard, at least make sure the person clearly understood whats at stake, give him insight to everything and if he still decides to go to hell, then let him. (this wouldnt happen, ever.)
Its pathetic to think that thats the gods system. We, the beings equal to nothing when compared to him, have use our faulty logic and resist are inborn urges to navigate to heaven. Its like making a blind crippled man walk the rope to get across a river(hell) to the other side, heaven.
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rpf,
what you say about natural disasters and other things, its the same thing i mentioned in my OP.
Lets assume that the story is true, and this life really determines the after life.
Is it then really important what happens here if the other life is for eternity?
Do you mind losing a few battles to win the war?
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jtan,
yeah, before I used to feel that I'm really living the true life. I was calm and at peace. When I prayed, i sometimes really felt like im connected to God. The night when i really felt i should become a priest, i started crying coz my emotions were insane.
One time when I finished with my confession, on my way home, the world felt perfect, i wanted to hug everyone.
Even now, i still feel it in the back of my mind. I guess i told myself, if God really needs me, he'll have to make my mind cooperate. If he really does love us so much, cant he get off his lazy ass and do something? (notice how im allways saying stuff like this, hoping that he might actually pick up on my words and react)
I managed to make a half-assed psihological explanation for basically everything i just said, so im kinda confused... i feel one thing, yet my mind pulls me in different directions.
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I read all the posts of you guys and i appreciate all of them. I commented only on those that i felt i had to reply to or had something to add.
thanks guys
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Nitereloaded,
I think the general idea is that God cannot control the direction of your soul unless you give him control, and he cannot take control if you are impure and unholy. He cannot enter your life if you do not accept him, and therefore cannot save you even though he wants to. The general idea is that the greater your sin or potential sin, the greater his reward when you finally suppress it and put yourself in his embrace.
ps nitereloaded, you are significantly more intellectually mature than 90% of the people I know .
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On March 21 2008 09:36 HamerD wrote:
Nitereloaded,
I think the general idea is that God cannot control the direction of your soul unless you give him control, and he cannot take control if you are impure and unholy. He cannot enter your life if you do not accept him, and therefore cannot save you even though he wants to. The general idea is that the greater your sin or potential sin, the greater his reward when you finally suppress it and put yourself in his embrace.
But that's basicly saying you should just surrender your mind.
I don't know exactly how nite feels, but stopping to think about these things is no solution.
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United States22883 Posts
On March 21 2008 09:43 jtan wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2008 09:36 HamerD wrote:
Nitereloaded,
I think the general idea is that God cannot control the direction of your soul unless you give him control, and he cannot take control if you are impure and unholy. He cannot enter your life if you do not accept him, and therefore cannot save you even though he wants to. The general idea is that the greater your sin or potential sin, the greater his reward when you finally suppress it and put yourself in his embrace. But that's basicly saying you should just surrender your mind.
But blind faith is ok when a Christian does it, and not a Muslim.
Read my freaking post, nite. You proved it to yourself already, you just don't realize it. Goodness exists independent of religion.
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HamerD, if i only knew that was true.
the bible says he's omnipotent, so who am i to allow or forbid anything? And that stupid good shepard story, the sheep didn allow anything, he just grabbed her... The story does say that he leaves 99 other sheep to save that 1. So in this world, to save 1 by 1, i'll have to wait exactly 3476 gazzillion years for him to save me. ^^
If they simply said, god cant do anything if you dont allow him, he's not omnipotent, it might be easier for me to accept.
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jtan,
i know thinking about things like this can be overwhelming and is perhaps wasting time, but i still think its ok to analyze stuff that bother you. I actually feel better now, like something's off my chest. Now that i let everything out, i might be able to look at it better.
jibba,
a religion that awards you for killing people is bad, coz that's one thing all religions agree on; life is precious and noone is allowed to take another man's life.
i dont know much about islam, but people mostly dislike it coz of jihad-suicide-bombers that go to heaven.
however, If i remember corectly, jihad itself is never mentioned in Kur'an.
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if there is a god he sure as hell doesn't love me.
hell doesn't seem so bad. the way i see it, satan was the first guy to really see through all the "god" bullshit. so how can he be mean to the people who agree with him?
plus, i asked for satan to bless me on my chem test, and i seemed to do pretty well.
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If the universe is infinite, there must be a god somewhere.
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On March 21 2008 09:36 HamerD wrote:Nitereloaded, I think the general idea is that God cannot control the direction of your soul unless you give him control, and he cannot take control if you are impure and unholy. He cannot enter your life if you do not accept him, and therefore cannot save you even though he wants to. The general idea is that the greater your sin or potential sin, the greater his reward when you finally suppress it and put yourself in his embrace. ps nitereloaded, you are significantly more intellectually mature than 90% of the people I know .
that bolded part is hilarious. did you just say god can't do something? an omnipotent being can't do something?
this is why i think religion is bullshit. it's full of contradiction, and nobody agrees with anybody else.
nobody seems to know what the fuck is going on with that whole trinity thing.
why do you think there are so many subdivisions in the churches? it's because everybody sees the bullshit in it to some degree, but most are too pussy to see the whole picture. no matter what religion you choose you're in the minority. so why deal with that shit? it's all bullshit and wrong and it's holding humanity back.
sorry, that rant will get me a lot of flames, but i don't give a shit. read a book other than the bible for once.
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United States22883 Posts
jibba,
a religion that awards you for killing people is bad, coz that's one thing all religions agree on; life is precious and noone is allowed to take another man's life.
i dont know much about islam, but people mostly dislike it coz of jihad-suicide-bombers that go to heaven.
however, If i remember corectly, jihad itself is never mentioned in Kur'an. It was sarcasm... jesus. I meant read my earlier post in the thread. The one before I started making snide comments like these.
God killed a lot more people in the Bible than Satan did fyi,
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On March 21 2008 10:02 parkin wrote:
If the universe is infinite, there must be a god somewhere.
This is totally irrelevant to the OP, but
1. The statement is wrong, just because something is infinite it doesn't mean it contains everything
2. The universe is not infinite
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On March 21 2008 10:05 Meta wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2008 09:36 HamerD wrote:Nitereloaded, I think the general idea is that God cannot control the direction of your soul unless you give him control, and he cannot take control if you are impure and unholy. He cannot enter your life if you do not accept him, and therefore cannot save you even though he wants to. The general idea is that the greater your sin or potential sin, the greater his reward when you finally suppress it and put yourself in his embrace. ps nitereloaded, you are significantly more intellectually mature than 90% of the people I know . that bolded part is hilarious. did you just say god can't do something? an omnipotent being can't do something? this is why i think religion is bullshit. it's full of contradiction, and nobody agrees with anybody else. nobody seems to know what the fuck is going on with that whole trinity thing. why do you think there are so many subdivisions in the churches? it's because everybody sees the bullshit in it to some degree, but most are too pussy to see the whole picture. no matter what religion you choose you're in the minority. so why deal with that shit? it's all bullshit and wrong and it's holding humanity back. sorry, that rant will get me a lot of flames, but i don't give a shit. read a book other than the bible for once.
i think HamerD is a bit misinformed..which proves your point about christians disagreeing.
but if you mean denominations by subdivisions your point isnt valid. There are seperate denominations in the church generally due to different interpretations of the Bible on practices and worship methods..not on what actually occurred and who God is, the trinity, etc. (except for some denominations that most people would label as a "cult")
2. The universe is not infinite
proof?
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Have faith in me my son, Me taking a dump will get rid of all your sins.
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On March 21 2008 10:06 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +jibba,
a religion that awards you for killing people is bad, coz that's one thing all religions agree on; life is precious and noone is allowed to take another man's life.
i dont know much about islam, but people mostly dislike it coz of jihad-suicide-bombers that go to heaven.
however, If i remember corectly, jihad itself is never mentioned in Kur'an. It was sarcasm... jesus. I meant read my earlier post in the thread. The one before I started making snide comments like these. God killed a lot more people in the Bible than Satan did fyi,
yeah, my sarcasm detector went down a few hours ago, i need sleep. cya guys, i'll probly check this out tommorow... im gettin kinda fed up, i guess enough thinking about this for today.
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United States22883 Posts
On March 21 2008 10:23 BaDayOri wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2008 10:05 Meta wrote:On March 21 2008 09:36 HamerD wrote:Nitereloaded, I think the general idea is that God cannot control the direction of your soul unless you give him control, and he cannot take control if you are impure and unholy. He cannot enter your life if you do not accept him, and therefore cannot save you even though he wants to. The general idea is that the greater your sin or potential sin, the greater his reward when you finally suppress it and put yourself in his embrace. ps nitereloaded, you are significantly more intellectually mature than 90% of the people I know . that bolded part is hilarious. did you just say god can't do something? an omnipotent being can't do something? this is why i think religion is bullshit. it's full of contradiction, and nobody agrees with anybody else. nobody seems to know what the fuck is going on with that whole trinity thing. why do you think there are so many subdivisions in the churches? it's because everybody sees the bullshit in it to some degree, but most are too pussy to see the whole picture. no matter what religion you choose you're in the minority. so why deal with that shit? it's all bullshit and wrong and it's holding humanity back. sorry, that rant will get me a lot of flames, but i don't give a shit. read a book other than the bible for once. i think HamerD is a bit misinformed..which proves your point about christians disagreeing. but if you mean denominations by subdivisions your point isnt valid. There are seperate denominations in the church generally due to different interpretations of the Bible on practices and worship methods..not on what actually occurred and who God is, the trinity, etc.
No, there are fundamental differences between the beliefs of different sects of Christianity, besides just how to "access" God. Many of the middle eastern Christian sects, for instance. Even in the Western world, Predestination is a vastly different religious belief than what is seen in Catholicism.
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hahaha I just noticed that on the second page.
Obviously TL = God.
OT: Read The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins. Its a very comprehensive book that will answer practically every question about religion and rationale.
Here's the first chapter to get you interested:
http://richarddawkins.net/firstChapter,1
RPF: Yeah I assumed you were agnostic, but I find agnosticism to be fairly poor and sunken when you look at its thresholds carefully.
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On March 21 2008 10:28 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2008 10:23 BaDayOri wrote:On March 21 2008 10:05 Meta wrote:On March 21 2008 09:36 HamerD wrote:Nitereloaded, I think the general idea is that God cannot control the direction of your soul unless you give him control, and he cannot take control if you are impure and unholy. He cannot enter your life if you do not accept him, and therefore cannot save you even though he wants to. The general idea is that the greater your sin or potential sin, the greater his reward when you finally suppress it and put yourself in his embrace. ps nitereloaded, you are significantly more intellectually mature than 90% of the people I know . that bolded part is hilarious. did you just say god can't do something? an omnipotent being can't do something? this is why i think religion is bullshit. it's full of contradiction, and nobody agrees with anybody else. nobody seems to know what the fuck is going on with that whole trinity thing. why do you think there are so many subdivisions in the churches? it's because everybody sees the bullshit in it to some degree, but most are too pussy to see the whole picture. no matter what religion you choose you're in the minority. so why deal with that shit? it's all bullshit and wrong and it's holding humanity back. sorry, that rant will get me a lot of flames, but i don't give a shit. read a book other than the bible for once. i think HamerD is a bit misinformed..which proves your point about christians disagreeing. but if you mean denominations by subdivisions your point isnt valid. There are seperate denominations in the church generally due to different interpretations of the Bible on practices and worship methods..not on what actually occurred and who God is, the trinity, etc. No, there are fundamental differences between the beliefs of different sects of Christianity, besides just how to "access" God. Many of the middle eastern Christian sects, for instance. Even in the Western world, Predestination is a vastly different religious belief than what is seen in Catholicism.
That's what I mean my interpertation of the Bible..different denominations dont usually argue over what actually happened in the past.
however my church's view on predestination is that God knows all (including future events) but that he gives free will.. confusing, yes, but ive always been taught that the simple mind of humans are not at the level of God's to be able to comprehend his ways. idk what to believe
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United States22883 Posts
Jehovah's witnesses and Unitarians are two of many sects of Christianity that dispute the Trinity.
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On March 21 2008 10:34 BaDayOri wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2008 10:28 Jibba wrote:On March 21 2008 10:23 BaDayOri wrote:On March 21 2008 10:05 Meta wrote:On March 21 2008 09:36 HamerD wrote:Nitereloaded, I think the general idea is that God cannot control the direction of your soul unless you give him control, and he cannot take control if you are impure and unholy. He cannot enter your life if you do not accept him, and therefore cannot save you even though he wants to. The general idea is that the greater your sin or potential sin, the greater his reward when you finally suppress it and put yourself in his embrace. ps nitereloaded, you are significantly more intellectually mature than 90% of the people I know . that bolded part is hilarious. did you just say god can't do something? an omnipotent being can't do something? this is why i think religion is bullshit. it's full of contradiction, and nobody agrees with anybody else. nobody seems to know what the fuck is going on with that whole trinity thing. why do you think there are so many subdivisions in the churches? it's because everybody sees the bullshit in it to some degree, but most are too pussy to see the whole picture. no matter what religion you choose you're in the minority. so why deal with that shit? it's all bullshit and wrong and it's holding humanity back. sorry, that rant will get me a lot of flames, but i don't give a shit. read a book other than the bible for once. i think HamerD is a bit misinformed..which proves your point about christians disagreeing. but if you mean denominations by subdivisions your point isnt valid. There are seperate denominations in the church generally due to different interpretations of the Bible on practices and worship methods..not on what actually occurred and who God is, the trinity, etc. No, there are fundamental differences between the beliefs of different sects of Christianity, besides just how to "access" God. Many of the middle eastern Christian sects, for instance. Even in the Western world, Predestination is a vastly different religious belief than what is seen in Catholicism. That's what I mean my interpertation of the Bible..different denominations dont usually argue over what actually happened in the past. however my church's view on predestination is that God knows all (including future events) but that he gives free will.. confusing, yes, but ive always been taught that the simple mind of humans are not at the level of God's to be able to comprehend his ways. idk what to believe
I always see this happening when it comes to discussion about religion. When you got them cornered and they're out of arguments they pull something like "God works in mysterious ways" or "The simple mind of humans are not at the level of God's to be able to comprehend his ways"
Do you seriously accept that as an answer?
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If god loves us, he's got a funny way of showing it.
We're down here on earth bickering over who's religion is right, and he's just sitting on his ass up in heaven laughing at us.
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United States22883 Posts
Predestination is really a lot crazier than just "God works in mysterious ways." Historically, it involves a hierarchy of who can and cannot go to Heaven and a few other things that are seemingly absurd, but like everything else it requires blind faith. They actually changed how it works when they found early Calvinism was too exclusive and they were running out of members.
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Snet
United States3573 Posts
i love it how delicate threads like this have to go thru loads of horseshit I'm-tough posts before people finally start typing what they think
Translation:
I hate when I make religion threads not prepared for people disagreeing with me.
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On March 21 2008 10:23 BaDayOri wrote:proof?
Yes. The size of the universe is generally defined as the place where everything exists, and since nothing moves faster than the speed of light, the universe should have a radius of about 13.7 billion lightyears since big bang happened about 13.7 billion years ago. There are some complications with this though, if you really are interested go check out
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/mystery_monday_040524.html
The number of particles in the universe is also finite and is estimated at about 10^87
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On March 21 2008 10:23 BaDayOri wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2008 10:05 Meta wrote:On March 21 2008 09:36 HamerD wrote:Nitereloaded, I think the general idea is that God cannot control the direction of your soul unless you give him control, and he cannot take control if you are impure and unholy. He cannot enter your life if you do not accept him, and therefore cannot save you even though he wants to. The general idea is that the greater your sin or potential sin, the greater his reward when you finally suppress it and put yourself in his embrace. ps nitereloaded, you are significantly more intellectually mature than 90% of the people I know . that bolded part is hilarious. did you just say god can't do something? an omnipotent being can't do something? this is why i think religion is bullshit. it's full of contradiction, and nobody agrees with anybody else. nobody seems to know what the fuck is going on with that whole trinity thing. why do you think there are so many subdivisions in the churches? it's because everybody sees the bullshit in it to some degree, but most are too pussy to see the whole picture. no matter what religion you choose you're in the minority. so why deal with that shit? it's all bullshit and wrong and it's holding humanity back. sorry, that rant will get me a lot of flames, but i don't give a shit. read a book other than the bible for once. i think HamerD is a bit misinformed..which proves your point about christians disagreeing. but if you mean denominations by subdivisions your point isnt valid. There are seperate denominations in the church generally due to different interpretations of the Bible on practices and worship methods..not on what actually occurred and who God is, the trinity, etc. (except for some denominations that most people would label as a "cult") proof?
the fact that there can be different interpretations of the bible invalidates it in the mind of any rational person. you can't interperet gravity, therodynamics, or evolution in any way other than how it is (unless you're uneducated).
i see no difference between religions and cults.
a scientist argue that because we cannot see anything beyond 13-14 billion lightyears away, the universe is finite. if it was infinite, it would have had to always exist, and yet since it's only 13-14 billion years old, it's not infinite.
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This is quickly turning into Religion vs Atheism once again.
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On March 21 2008 10:13 jtan wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2008 10:02 parkin wrote:
If the universe is infinite, there must be a god somewhere. This is totally irrelevant to the OP, but 1. The statement is wrong, just because something is infinite it doesn't mean it contains everything 2. The universe is not infinite
Infinity is more of a philosophy than something mathematical in my opinion. Its very hard to grasp logically.
If you take pi for example, it has an infinite sequence of numbers. somewhere in it theres is an infinitie sequence of 1:s and at the same time somewhere in it theres a infinite sequence of 3:s. There is an infinite number of every possible infinite number sequnce there absolutely is in pi. This is not logical and very hard, probably impossible, for a human mind to understand.
If the universe is infinite there will be an infinite number of "sequences" of energy and matter and whatever crap the universe is made of. Somewhere there must be a "sequence" that is "god", whatever "god" is.
And what makes you believe that the universe isnt infinite?t
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On March 21 2008 11:05 parkin wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2008 10:13 jtan wrote:On March 21 2008 10:02 parkin wrote:
If the universe is infinite, there must be a god somewhere. This is totally irrelevant to the OP, but 1. The statement is wrong, just because something is infinite it doesn't mean it contains everything 2. The universe is not infinite Infinity is more of a philosophy than something mathematical in my opinion. Its very hard to grasp logically. If you take pi for example, it has an infinite sequence of numbers. somewhere in it theres is an infinitie sequence of 1:s and at the same time somewhere in it theres a infinite sequence of 3:s. There is an infinite number of every possible infinite number sequnce there absolutely is in pi. This is not logical and very hard, probably impossible, for a human mind to understand. If the universe is infinite there will be an infinite number of "sequences" of energy and matter and whatever crap the universe is made of. Somewhere there must be a "sequence" that is "god", whatever "god" is. And what makes you believe that the universe isnt infinite?t
Speak for yourself when you are talking about not grasping infinity! I'm studying mathematics, and had several lectures on set-theory, and I can tell you that once you get used to handeling infinity, it's totally straight-forward.
Your Pi analogy is wrong. You will never get an infinite sequence of any digit, but you can fix a finite number as large as you want and find that number of 1's in a sequence. I could prove this pretty easily but I don't think you would understand anyway.
Your next sentance "There is an infinite number of every possible infinite number sequnce there absolutely is in pi" comes true if you take away one word: the second "infinite"
And I would argue that it's not even hard to understand. It's pretty easy to prove pi is not rational, i.e it has no reoccuring sequence in its decimals. Then it follows from basic combinatorial arguments that you can find any given sequence in pi. It's not really as hard as you'd like to think.
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Even if there is a God we will NEVER know what he wants, thinks about, or specifics like whether he loves us or not...
You can be as faithful as you want, but you will NEVER know.
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Yes well several things crop up in all interpretations of God, nitereloaded.
One issue I have is that it is almost obvious that the bible has been edited and cropped and cut and entire chunks have been removed; so conducting religion purely on that sort of written word is a bit suspect in the first place.
There is a lot of discussion, as to whether God wants to restrain his power, has lost his power, ever had his power over this world.
By the way, I am an atheist currently. And have never been a christian.
Can I also say that these arguments posed here really are a little soap-box. If anyone actually wants to get stuck into some proper intellectual debate about God then I have some philosophy forums you should attend .
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On March 21 2008 11:50 Romance_us wrote:
Even if there is a God we will NEVER know what he wants, thinks about, or specifics like whether he loves us or not...
You can be as faithful as you want, but you will NEVER know.
unless you actually read the BIBLE
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But you will NEVER know wheter or not the bible is the word of god
And so you would still never know -_-
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On March 21 2008 11:59 ilj.psa wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2008 11:50 Romance_us wrote:
Even if there is a God we will NEVER know what he wants, thinks about, or specifics like whether he loves us or not...
You can be as faithful as you want, but you will NEVER know. unless you actually read the BIBLE
that's laughable to the point that i think you're being sarcastic.
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Demanding proof once again, do you know what the term "belief" in a religion is at all?
imo lets not derail the topic and turn it into ANOTHER religion debate
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On March 20 2008 21:50 niteReloaded wrote:im totally torn apart. I feel that there's a God that loves us, my mind tells me different. For the last few years, the thought of becoming a priest was always in the back of my mind coz the christianity thing felt so REAL for me. I was pretty sure I felt that 'calling' as they call it. Anyways, I always think "what if there is no god, and i become a priest, gg life." To say it in short, my thoughs were that the good feeling Christians get when they are related to God, is the feeling of accepting themselves, allowing them to love themselves because "if God loves me, how can i not love myself?" We can only be happy if we love and accept ourselves, but if you do it on your own (without the God in the equation), the society often treats you as self-centered and all other bad words i dont know in english. So, right now, thats my interpretation of religion. Anyways, almost every day the thought of becoming a priest comes to my head (even with the girl in the picture) and I keep making rationalizations to make it go away. Right now, these are the reasons I dont believe in God: 1. Many people say "If God loves us, how can he let inocent people die." I dont care about that. If the whole religion thing is true, it really doesnt matter what happens on this earth. If an innocent child dies, it goes to heaven, so what more can we ask? so the child is OK. An other thing is bothering me however. If God loves us 1000X more than a father loves his child, how can he let any of us go to hell? Why doesnt he bother to tell us we're going in the wrong direction? People might say, its all in the bible, read it, its up to you to make the decision. But is it? If you see your child about to fall from a tree, and you said to him that its dangerous to climb trees, would you say to him "Its up to you to listen to me.". No, you wouldnt. You would jump, scream, and grab him, hug him and tell him again not to do it anymore. None of us wants to go to hell. Those who live their lives in a way that will reserve them a ticket in hell certainly dont do it on purpose i.e. to get to hell. They dont believe in hell. They are only trying to be happy. So is it really our fault that the word of God wasnt interperted well enough to us? Is it so hard for God to send an angel to each of us and say "look dude, dont do that shit anymore, you'll end up badly. Be good, God really loves you and wants you to be good."What ever happened to that good shepard story: a sheep strays away and the shepard comes, grabs her, puts her on his shoulders and takes her to safety. he doesnt say to the sheep "didnt you read the manual?! It's your fault, burn in hell!" If god is so powerful and smart, then we are nothing but sheep, and we need to be directed the right way. 2. People often say, God gave his sons life for you, what more can we ask//why are you ungrateful?Well, Jesus is not dead, he was dead for 3 days. He came to earth, told a few stories, went thru a torture that btw millions of people get thru every day. But those people die for real, he came back to life. thats ez. If i could change it, i would make jesus NOT die. I would only make god send an angel to each of us. So what if jesus died, majority doesnt believe it anyway. Or is that the whole point? Would it be boring for God if every one of us got saved? Would it be imba? is there not enough room in heaven so some simply have to fail the tests? (If there are people who would like to discuss this more, plz bookmark the thread so you dont forget, blogs get cluttered up fast.) + Show Spoiler [about the last blog entry about the mo…] +http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?currentpage=1&topic_id=68250
I don't think millions of people are tortured as badly every day. He was mauled so badly that the closest people to Him could not recognize Him. Don't underestimate the suffering that He endured.
It doesn't matter what the majority believes, it's that it had to happen. God required a sacrifice for people to be saved, and that sacrifice had to be without blemish. Christ was without blemish (sinless). It's the only way it could have happened. Something perfect had to die for the imperfect to be saved. I don't know WHY God is like that, it can't be explained, but He required it.
That is why Salvation is such a personal experience, because you realize that Christ would have died on the cross even if you were the only one to EVER believe.
I can't explain the first point; I often think of that myself.
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no father will punish you because you didnt listen to him. He will perhaps punish you to make you learn a lesson for life, so that you dont get burnt in a bigger thing when you grow up a bit. But, here, heaven and hell are the final destinations, either first or the second. Nothing really demands punishment for eternity. If you are going to punish someone so hard, at least make sure the person clearly understood whats at stake, give him insight to everything and if he still decides to go to hell, then let him. (this wouldnt happen, ever.)
Its pathetic to think that thats the gods system. We, the beings equal to nothing when compared to him, have use our faulty logic and resist are inborn urges to navigate to heaven. Its like making a blind crippled man walk the rope to get across a river(hell) to the other side, heaven.
well obviously dont go to hell for stealing a cookie do you? it takes some serious shit to get sent to hell. i dont think a father would think of you the same if he found out you drank the blood of the innocent cut open little childrens stomachs sat inside of them and touched yourself to there guts.
now thats some real shit to get sent to hell for
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If you told your father that you hated him, and you went so far as to deny his existance, would your father still feel the same way toward you? Would he let you stay in his house?
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On March 21 2008 12:53 ilj.psa wrote:
Demanding proof once again, do you know what the term "belief" in a religion is at all?
imo lets not derail the topic and turn it into ANOTHER religion debate
i know what the term "belief" is. it's a stupid, irrational, unbased, unfounded, shaky argument at BEST.
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On March 21 2008 15:49 ShmotZ wrote:Show nested quote +no father will punish you because you didnt listen to him. He will perhaps punish you to make you learn a lesson for life, so that you dont get burnt in a bigger thing when you grow up a bit. But, here, heaven and hell are the final destinations, either first or the second. Nothing really demands punishment for eternity. If you are going to punish someone so hard, at least make sure the person clearly understood whats at stake, give him insight to everything and if he still decides to go to hell, then let him. (this wouldnt happen, ever.)
Its pathetic to think that thats the gods system. We, the beings equal to nothing when compared to him, have use our faulty logic and resist are inborn urges to navigate to heaven. Its like making a blind crippled man walk the rope to get across a river(hell) to the other side, heaven. well obviously dont go to hell for stealing a cookie do you? it takes some serious shit to get sent to hell. i dont think a father would think of you the same if he found out you drank the blood of the innocent cut open little childrens stomachs sat inside of them and touched yourself to there guts. now thats some real shit to get sent to hell for
well, basically you go to hell if you've commited any of the 7 big sins without making a confession before you die. So, you slept with a girl you loved but weren't married to, you lived your life like a saint besides that, you made people happy. Go burn in hell.
On March 21 2008 16:01 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote:
If you told your father that you hated him, and you went so far as to deny his existance, would your father still feel the same way toward you? Would he let you stay in his house?
lemme change this a bit to make it more suitable:
If you told your father that you've never seen in your life, and all you know about him is from a book some friends of his wrote that you hated him, and you went so far as to deny his existance, would your father still feel the same way toward you? Would he let you stay in his house?
He would be a bad father for expecting you to actually believe a book and live your life according to it.
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United States22883 Posts
On March 21 2008 13:23 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2008 21:50 niteReloaded wrote:im totally torn apart. I feel that there's a God that loves us, my mind tells me different. For the last few years, the thought of becoming a priest was always in the back of my mind coz the christianity thing felt so REAL for me. I was pretty sure I felt that 'calling' as they call it. Anyways, I always think "what if there is no god, and i become a priest, gg life." To say it in short, my thoughs were that the good feeling Christians get when they are related to God, is the feeling of accepting themselves, allowing them to love themselves because "if God loves me, how can i not love myself?" We can only be happy if we love and accept ourselves, but if you do it on your own (without the God in the equation), the society often treats you as self-centered and all other bad words i dont know in english. So, right now, thats my interpretation of religion. Anyways, almost every day the thought of becoming a priest comes to my head (even with the girl in the picture) and I keep making rationalizations to make it go away. Right now, these are the reasons I dont believe in God: 1. Many people say "If God loves us, how can he let inocent people die." I dont care about that. If the whole religion thing is true, it really doesnt matter what happens on this earth. If an innocent child dies, it goes to heaven, so what more can we ask? so the child is OK. An other thing is bothering me however. If God loves us 1000X more than a father loves his child, how can he let any of us go to hell? Why doesnt he bother to tell us we're going in the wrong direction? People might say, its all in the bible, read it, its up to you to make the decision. But is it? If you see your child about to fall from a tree, and you said to him that its dangerous to climb trees, would you say to him "Its up to you to listen to me.". No, you wouldnt. You would jump, scream, and grab him, hug him and tell him again not to do it anymore. None of us wants to go to hell. Those who live their lives in a way that will reserve them a ticket in hell certainly dont do it on purpose i.e. to get to hell. They dont believe in hell. They are only trying to be happy. So is it really our fault that the word of God wasnt interperted well enough to us? Is it so hard for God to send an angel to each of us and say "look dude, dont do that shit anymore, you'll end up badly. Be good, God really loves you and wants you to be good."What ever happened to that good shepard story: a sheep strays away and the shepard comes, grabs her, puts her on his shoulders and takes her to safety. he doesnt say to the sheep "didnt you read the manual?! It's your fault, burn in hell!" If god is so powerful and smart, then we are nothing but sheep, and we need to be directed the right way. 2. People often say, God gave his sons life for you, what more can we ask//why are you ungrateful?Well, Jesus is not dead, he was dead for 3 days. He came to earth, told a few stories, went thru a torture that btw millions of people get thru every day. But those people die for real, he came back to life. thats ez. If i could change it, i would make jesus NOT die. I would only make god send an angel to each of us. So what if jesus died, majority doesnt believe it anyway. Or is that the whole point? Would it be boring for God if every one of us got saved? Would it be imba? is there not enough room in heaven so some simply have to fail the tests? (If there are people who would like to discuss this more, plz bookmark the thread so you dont forget, blogs get cluttered up fast.) + Show Spoiler [about the last blog entry about the mo…] +http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?currentpage=1&topic_id=68250
It doesn't matter what the majority believes, it's that it had to happen. God required a sacrifice for people to be saved, and that sacrifice had to be without blemish. Christ was without blemish (sinless). It's the only way it could have happened.
Matthew tells us it would've been better had Judas not betrayed Jesus, yet you're saying it had to happen?
It seems to me that it's awfully unfair for Judas to have been created by God just so that he can burn in Hell for eternity.
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