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On January 13 2014 15:46 HULKAMANIA wrote:
On top of all that, cohabitation is a piss poor idea for anyone anywhere who takes the idea of marriage seriously.
The play here is to respect the wishes of her family, and live alone until you guys get married. I would not bullshit a 20000+ post fellow TLer. It's that simple.
Yeah, it's totally better to find out if you can live together after getting married, because you can always divorce, eh?
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No. You can't divorce. That shouldn't be on the table.
If you want a reliable marriage, you ought to find someone who treats it as a sober, irrevocable vow made before family and God and you ought to do likewise. Cohabitation beforehand has nothing to do with that and in fact tips your hand that you're weighing your romance options like a tween rather than directing your life like an adult. If you want a precious little relationship that you're allowed to opt out of as soon as you start to get sad feelings, then marriage isn't for you anyway. Go ahead and live together.
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Remind their parents that you don't need to live together to have sex.
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So you're saying it's preferable to live unhappily together than to break some ridiculously unrealistic vow before an imagined higher power in case cohabitation turns out to be less than optimal? The idiom 'pig in a poke' should be very applicable here.
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If you lack the basic capacity to keep a promise even if it makes you (gasp!) unhappy from time to time to do so, then you're not adult enough for a commitment like marriage. But travis is asking questions about the lead up to his marriage, so I assume he has or likes to think he has that capacity.
You already said you don't really get marriage. That much is obvious.
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On January 13 2014 18:53 HULKAMANIA wrote:
If you lack the basic capacity to keep a promise even if it makes you (gasp!) unhappy from time to time to do so, then you're not adult enough for a commitment like marriage.
I thought marriage was "until death do us part". That's a long time to be unhappy.
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On January 13 2014 18:55 sumsaR wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2014 18:53 HULKAMANIA wrote:
If you lack the basic capacity to keep a promise even if it makes you (gasp!) unhappy from time to time to do so, then you're not adult enough for a commitment like marriage. I thought marriage was "until death do us part". That's a long time to be unhappy.
Don't worry then, little buddy. No one's going to make you enter into that big, scary state of matrimony! You're allowed to stay single or serial cohabit or marry and then divorce do whatever it is that you need to do to coddle your delicate emotions throughout your entire natural born life.
But once again this is a discussion about a man who is already intent on marriage. If that gives you the vapors, you don't have to stick around.
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On January 13 2014 18:41 HULKAMANIA wrote:
Cohabitation beforehand has nothing to do with that and in fact tips your hand that you're weighing your romance options like a tween rather than directing your life like an adult.
lol
living together to make sure the together for life thing is 100% what you want is for tweens now?
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yo, I don't think people need to be this aggressive, but HULKMANIA you have to realize that you're presenting a viewpoint that is pretty contradictory to the general views of society at the moment. Cohabitating isn't for everyone, but the view that living together before getting married is silly is a bit out of style.
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On January 13 2014 15:46 HULKAMANIA wrote:
On top of all that, cohabitation is a piss poor idea for anyone anywhere who takes the idea of marriage seriously.
Not sure if naive or dense...
What happens if you get married then realize you are totally incompatible living together. I know for a fact that people are completely different when you live with them. When you aren't living together, you have your downtime so you can always be on your game when you are together. This doesn't happen when you're living together, you see each other every day whether you like it or not.
Regardless, you sound super Christian so I'm not going to bother arguing with you.
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On January 14 2014 04:38 chadissilent wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2014 15:46 HULKAMANIA wrote:
On top of all that, cohabitation is a piss poor idea for anyone anywhere who takes the idea of marriage seriously.
What happens if you get married then realize you are totally incompatible living together. I know for a fact that people are completely different when you live with them. When you aren't living together, you have your downtime so you can always be on your game when you are together. This doesn't happen when you're living together, you see each other every day whether you like it or not.
exactly. seeing each other several times a week and even sleeping over often isnt the same as living together. all the love in the world cant fix incompatibility.
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On January 13 2014 18:53 HULKAMANIA wrote:
If you lack the basic capacity to keep a promise even if it makes you (gasp!) unhappy from time to time to do so, then you're not adult enough for a commitment like marriage. But travis is asking questions about the lead up to his marriage, so I assume he has or likes to think he has that capacity.
You already said you don't really get marriage. That much is obvious.
Over time people have decided that it's not really worth both of you being unhappy for the rest of your lives just because you promised each other that you would live together for the rest of your lives. Marriage is a contract, and if you both want out then you should get a divorce. There is no inherent value to keeping your promise since your promise was to the other person who also wants to get out.
A more christian interpretation would be that your promise was also to god and that you should keep it for the sake of that promise. While it's a valid view, that's not how people generally think of marriage these days.
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im less interested in hulkamania rambling on about divorce and more interested in hearing about how he decided that living together before you decide to make that promose for life is a bad idea.
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On January 14 2014 04:57 QuanticHawk wrote:
im less interested in hulkamania rambling on about divorce and more interested in hearing about how he decided that living together before you decide to make that promose for life is a bad idea.
Religious brainwashing? Only thing I can think of in this context.
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On January 13 2014 15:46 HULKAMANIA wrote:
She's a Christian. She has strong ties to her (I presume intact) family. She respects the wishes of her mother and father. All of the above are marks in the "quality wife material" column. They are valuable rarities in the dating pool these days, and you ought to feel a sense of accomplishment rather than frustration that you've managed to attract someone who understands the sort of familial dynamics that make for stable, long-term relationships.
On top of all that, cohabitation is a piss poor idea for anyone anywhere who takes the idea of marriage seriously.
The play here is to respect the wishes of her family, and live alone until you guys get married. I would not bullshit a 20000+ post fellow TLer. It's that simple.
Only part of his post I agree with
I think marriage should be with the intent of starting a family, and being forever, so I would make damn sure she is the right one.
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On January 14 2014 04:33 QuanticHawk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2014 18:41 HULKAMANIA wrote:
Cohabitation beforehand has nothing to do with that and in fact tips your hand that you're weighing your romance options like a tween rather than directing your life like an adult. lol living together to make sure the together for life thing is 100% what you want is for tweens now?
Absolutely.
It's a silly test-drive mentality, and it's a fundamental misconception about marriage, which is why people end up talking about completely irrelevant, eHarmony ideas like "compatibility." The fiction there is that you can find someone with whom you are "compatible" and thus ensure that staying together for life becomes an easy (or at least an easier) accomplishment. Wishful thinking at best, at worst the sort of "I know my soulmate is out there!" nonsense that fills so many adolescent diaries, conversations, and blogs.
The fact of the matter is that whatever notion of compatibility that you've cooked up is next to worthless when it comes to making a marriage work over the life-long term. You will change dramatically and in unforeseeable ways. Your wife will change dramatically and in unforeseeable ways. And all of your careful, risk-management calculations that you charted up beforehand will come to nothing. There is no marriage that doesn't go through periods, sometimes long periods, of miserable grind—times when you regret ever getting yourself involved in such a mess to begin with. What sustains people during these times is their commitment to that "unrealistic" covenant that they entered into, a sense of loyalty, a sense of duty, a sense of love that goes beyond the feelgood pop-psychology platitudes that came over you in the early, heady days of misguided cohabitation.
You achieve success in and mastery over your marriage in the same way you achieve mastery over anything else, hard work and self-sacrifice and a refusal to quit. As Chesterton said, "The man who makes a vow makes an appointment with himself at some distant time or place. The danger of it is that himself should not keep the appointment. And in modern times this terror of one's self, of the weakness and mutability of one's self, has perilously increased, and is the real basis of the objection to vows of any kind."
If you want to get married and to stay married, you should work on becoming the sort of man who can withstand the proverbial slings and arrows of fortune and still make that appointment with himself, which is simply to be on his or by his wife's deathbed and to have had and held her in richer or poorer, better or worse, sickness or health through all the years intervening between that time and the time of the vow. The idea that you can bank of making a good choice by dipping your toe into the waters of the relationship before plunging is not only infantile but toxic to the qualities that man needs to cultivate in order to maintain a vow. It's absolutely a fear of one's own mutability, a little nagging doubt that a few years down the line you don't be as happy in the relationship as you are now. Confidence in a situation of risk is the essence of mature masculinity. Worrying that you might actually end up pissing the bed is the essence of boyhood.
I'm not saying anything that's particularly new, either. It's received wisdom that would have been recognized as such even a few generations ago. It only seems strange now because it contradicts all the silly ideas about marriage that have emerged like flies around the corpse of the institution in a time of unparalleled rates of divorce and refusal to marry.
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On January 13 2014 19:01 HULKAMANIA wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2014 18:55 sumsaR wrote:On January 13 2014 18:53 HULKAMANIA wrote:
If you lack the basic capacity to keep a promise even if it makes you (gasp!) unhappy from time to time to do so, then you're not adult enough for a commitment like marriage. I thought marriage was "until death do us part". That's a long time to be unhappy. Don't worry then, little buddy. No one's going to make you enter into that big, scary state of matrimony! You're allowed to stay single or serial cohabit or marry and then divorce do whatever it is that you need to do to coddle your delicate emotions throughout your entire natural born life. But once again this is a discussion about a man who is already intent on marriage. If that gives you the vapors, you don't have to stick around.
There is so much wrong with the entire way you think I'm not even going to bother trying. All I will say is I feel sorry for whatever girl is hitched to you.
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On January 14 2014 08:15 SongByungWewt wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2014 19:01 HULKAMANIA wrote:On January 13 2014 18:55 sumsaR wrote:On January 13 2014 18:53 HULKAMANIA wrote:
If you lack the basic capacity to keep a promise even if it makes you (gasp!) unhappy from time to time to do so, then you're not adult enough for a commitment like marriage. I thought marriage was "until death do us part". That's a long time to be unhappy. Don't worry then, little buddy. No one's going to make you enter into that big, scary state of matrimony! You're allowed to stay single or serial cohabit or marry and then divorce do whatever it is that you need to do to coddle your delicate emotions throughout your entire natural born life. But once again this is a discussion about a man who is already intent on marriage. If that gives you the vapors, you don't have to stick around. There is so much wrong with the entire way you think I'm not even going to bother trying. All I will say is I feel sorry for whatever girl is hitched to you.
Excellent. I'm in the trenches, anyway, so you'll excuse my skepticism that you could tell me anything about women or marriage that I don't already know.
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Yes, you seem to be quite the expert on misery for the sake of abstract principles. Good luck with that.
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It's how you move the chains. There's nothing ennobling or edifying about pain-avoidance. Any animal will do it.
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EPT
