EPTI think the first thing to figure out is how controlling her parents are, and the extent to which she will obey them. The second thing to figure out is what level of control in your life you are okay with giving up to a third party in order to be with this person.
Need opinions on an important issue with my fiance - Page 5
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ZeaL.
United States5955 Posts
I think the first thing to figure out is how controlling her parents are, and the extent to which she will obey them. The second thing to figure out is what level of control in your life you are okay with giving up to a third party in order to be with this person. | ||
BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
I understand where the whole 'live together before marriage' comes from, but believe me, you want to be on good terms with her family if you plan to spend the rest of your life with her. As I see it, if you guys have been open and honest about everything to each other and any bad habits etc... then living together after that 1.5 years isn't going to change much. You already know she does x or y thing so it's not a surprise when you see it in person. | ||
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SongByungWewt
China593 Posts
Why is that? Why is a marriage lasting the most important accomplishment? Shouldn't it be fulfillment and enrichment of the two people in the marriage? I feel like so many marriages fail because instead of focusing on that marriage being mutually beneficial, people focus on the marriage LASTING. Hello, any marriage that is mutually beneficial will last! If a marriage is to one or both people's detriment of course it'll be hard to maintain. And all the strange predictions, statistics, and cultivation of virtues like "loyalty" won't be able to stop it from breaking apart. Marriage does not require a wholly different set of virtues. It just requires a convergence of two sets of self-interested people sharing a mutual benefit in staying together. So please guys, let's stop talking about how to make a marriage last, and think more about how this marriage will be beneficial to travis and his fiancee and how to remind the fiancee that it's to her benefit. In short, I don't agree with MoltkeWarding. Marriages founded upon the tenets of self-sacrifice do not last for long. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32075 Posts
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MarlieChurphy
United States2063 Posts
2ndly, her parents are retarded. It's almost a necessary part of a relationship to move in together before marriage to make sure things work ok etc so you don't marry the wrong person. I assume they think sex before marriage is wrong and this will allow that to happen or something? What is their reasoning? Have you talked to them about why they hold this belief (Don't go into it with argument mindset, just sit them down and let them break it down for you and don't take it personal. Like you were talking to a 5 year old and having them explain all they know about dinosaurs.)? Perhaps google or ask on a christian type forum to random people who hold same belief? I'm sure reddit has one. Side note: What are her parents like? What do you know about them and her upbringing? Any kind of traumas or issues in the past? 3rd, see a premarital counselor; I'm sure they have one the airforce can provide. edit- there is merit to what others have said about being psychologically immature. The prefrontal cortex in humans isn't fully developed until around age 25 (this is the part of the brain that deals with impulsiveness, sociopathic tendencies, etc.) You can read more about here and other places http://teenbrain.drugfree.org/science/behavior.html PS- Her parents seem like abusive, control freaks. And the reason her sister jumped into a marriage and quickly divorced is probably from co-dependency issues. I would be very wary of this whole situation. It's worth a shot to bluff though. Threaten to call the whole thing off because of this shit. If the bluff fails it's actually a short pain for a win in the long run anyways (because she obviously isn't in it for the right reasons). Also if it does fail, don't think of it as time invested, think of it as time wasted (because that's what it is/was). | ||
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KissBlade
United States5718 Posts
Honestly rather than consulting teamliquid first, it's probably a better call to talk to her parents first? You may try getting your folks in to talk to them as well. Take a look at all your options first. Feel free to pm me about marriage life, my experiences, etc. I don't really have interest in "debating" in blogs what works and what not. | ||
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soon.Cloak
United States983 Posts
On January 11 2014 07:39 travis wrote: Ok, I will try to keep this short... I will probably be separating from the air force early and going back to school. I want to go move in with her, she is my fiance so it seems not only reasonable but important to do so. She says she would love for me to move in with her but that her parents will not allow it because of religious beliefs(very christian). I think this is incredibly stupid. ... What do you guys think about this? Curious- do you think it's incredibly stupid that they are religious, but think what they're doing makes sense in light of their religiosity, or do you think that even though they're religious, it's stupid to follow through with the law (assuming that is Christian law)? The reason I ask is because if it's the latter, I may be able to give one religious person's perspective on the issue (I'm an Orthodox Jew), if you're interested in hearing it. If it's the former...I doubt that argument is worth either of our times :D. | ||
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chadissilent
Canada1187 Posts
On January 11 2014 08:19 Chairman Ray wrote: If her parents looks strongly down upon moving in before marriage, I would assume that they are not too fond of divorce either. There's always a danger that after moving in with someone you find you aren't as compatible as you thought you were, and you really don't want this to occur after marriage. What I would do is to move in together don't tell her parents. This may or may not be a good idea for you though. In my personal experience, my parents are extremely traditional as well and enforce arbitrary rules on me just because they are rules they grew up with and not for any logical reason. I just hide all details of my relationship from my parents and everyone is happy that way. If I get disowned for it, it's a decision that was solely made by my parents and 100% their fault. Perhaps your fiancé isn't as okay with being disowned as I am. If you can reliably move in together and keep it from her parents, might not be a bad thing to consider. EDIT: I think packrat's idea of speaking with their religious leader first is actually a good idea. Your lack of life experience is troubling. Don't hide anything from anyone, that's a horrible way to live. Be open, honest, and initiate a conversation with the parents. Explain how you understand your concerns, highlight your concerns/desires and have a rational conversation with them. If they're not willing to listen, do you want these people actively involved in your life as in-laws? Don't think they won't be -- their "baby" is 24 and they're still trying to run the show. | ||
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Kaeru
Sweden552 Posts
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Heyoka
Katowice25012 Posts
On January 12 2014 12:55 Kaeru wrote: Good luck and please don't brainwash your future children into christianity (read: stupidity). Don't do this. It's irrelevant, going to the derail the thread, and makes you look like an idiot. | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
On January 12 2014 07:36 MoltkeWarding wrote: The shift in the concept of marriage from being a union of two families to a union of two rootless individuals has tended to neither aid the stability nor the general happiness of that institution. Personally I am shocked by the responses thus far elicited. To consummate a union with someone is to see the world through their eyes, and to treat even their incomprehensible traits with an air of affection. Properly experienced, it ought to enlarge not only our pleasures, but our also our understanding. By opening up the frontiers of the mind to sensations and sympathies not our own, we transcend the limitations of the merely personal, and permit ourselves escape that intellectual loneliness which creates those unstable Byronic figures wallowing away on every corner of the internet. That's some really flowery language but I don't think the point that you seem to be trying to make is reasonable. First of all I don't find this incomprehensible, I think I understand it just fine. I just think it is irrational. Yes that is my opinion, so what is the alternative to standing up for what I believe? Blind acceptance of things I don't like? What are you even trying to say here? It has been remarked by some that marriage is unlikely to survive the darkness of inexperience. What it is even more unlikely to survive however, is a self-centred mindset which cannot transgress the boundaries of what is subjectively unreasonable. These customs adhered to by your prospective in-laws are eccentric for our generation. They are not eccentric to humanity as a whole. Follow such advice if you would; the moment you begin to think it your task to seduce a girl away from her family and into your bosom, you have become a predator, and the entire issue is doomed. How they are viewed by humanity is irrelevant. Seduce a girl away from her family? I am not taking her anywhere. According to you I seem to be the only person that has to be held accountable for anything that happens. On January 12 2014 08:38 ZeaL. wrote: Yeah. You might want to consider the fact that it sounds like you're thinking of marrying this girl and not considering that you will be marrying her family. Which is fine if you are okay with it, but you will have to take into account not just her desires but also the desires of her parents as it sounds like she is beholden to them. It doesn't just end with moving in together and getting married, that's just the start. Kids, location, career, social groups, activities, etc. are things that can potentially be dictated by her family. The whole "also marrying her family" thing isn't a view I hold in a way that is so absolute like that. However she does have that view to an extent, and I respect that. But I expect there will be a certain amount of compromise there. On January 12 2014 11:19 soon.Cloak wrote: Curious- do you think it's incredibly stupid that they are religious, but think what they're doing makes sense in light of their religiosity, or do you think that even though they're religious, it's stupid to follow through with the law (assuming that is Christian law)? The reason I ask is because if it's the latter, I may be able to give one religious person's perspective on the issue (I'm an Orthodox Jew), if you're interested in hearing it. If it's the former...I doubt that argument is worth either of our times :D. I am not going to go into my opinion on their religion. The reason that they don't want us to live together is fear of premarital sex, im sure. And that is very silly and stupid, I am sure you can think of some reasons why that is silly and stupid. | ||
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Burrfoot
United States1176 Posts
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Hryul
Austria2609 Posts
On January 12 2014 15:12 travis wrote: I am not going to go into my opinion on their religion. The reason that they don't want us to live together is fear of premarital sex, im sure. And that is very silly and stupid, I am sure you can think of some reasons why that is silly and stupid. This, my friend, is an extremely naive pov. They too were young, once. And On January 12 2014 20:52 Burrfoot wrote: Parents just hoping she meeting someone more to their standards (doctor, dentist, etc) before they cave in and let her marry you. | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
And how is their fear of premarital sex not stupid. Do you think us not living together would stop premarital sex? Oh, or are you just saying it is naive for me to think this is actually their motive? Because I think I know them better then you  | ||
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ETisME
12476 Posts
On January 12 2014 20:52 Burrfoot wrote: Parents just hoping she meeting someone more to their standards (doctor, dentist, etc) before they cave in and let her marry you. I really really disagree with this. This can be one explanation but a better and more possible one is just so that they can get to know u better before you two got so far ahead that when things go south, while you can feel completely fine since you are not against premarital sex, she and her family have to live with this fact forever | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32075 Posts
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
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Hryul
Austria2609 Posts
On January 13 2014 00:25 travis wrote: I am not going to say you are wrong, but don't throw out your assumptions like you actually know please. And how is their fear of premarital sex not stupid. Do you think us not living together would stop premarital sex? Oh, or are you just saying it is naive for me to think this is actually their motive? Because I think I know them better then you Well what I wanted to say is that they most likely know that you are already having sex. So not living together won't actually stop you from having sex. So there is at least a possibility that at least one of them has other motives. And knowing them better and knowing them are still two different things. | ||
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sumsaR
Sweden1812 Posts
As for the question at hand: convince either her, her parents or both that it's a good idea to live together before doing anything stupid as getting married. If you can't live together it's hard to stay married. The probability of divorce goes up (from the already high % it starts at) by getting married before you live together. As for the disowning: If that happens (and if it goes, they're bad parents anyway), screw their money. No need for some kind of extravagent wedding. | ||
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HULKAMANIA
United States1219 Posts
On top of all that, cohabitation is a piss poor idea for anyone anywhere who takes the idea of marriage seriously. The play here is to respect the wishes of her family, and live alone until you guys get married. I would not bullshit a 20000+ post fellow TLer. It's that simple. | ||
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