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On August 06 2013 09:34 biology]major wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2013 08:21 spudde123 wrote:Really well written. In some paragraphs I had to stop and was thinking "that is exactly how I feel". Specifically these few (also in your comments): Depression doesn’t feel like anything. No, I don’t mean that there isn’t anything that feels like depression. I mean that depression, the cruelest part of it, feels like nothing. It’s not sadness, it’s not anger, it’s not pain; it’s not even cynicism. It’s just me sitting alone at a little wooden table in the middle of a courtyard on a gray day. There are no birds, no people, and no trees. There is no food. My coffee is lukewarm. And no matter which way I look, no matter how hard I strain my eyes, there are no sunbeams or stars; there are no flashes of lightning. There is just me, the rain, and silence. And every horizon is the same courtyard stretching on eternally; there are no other tables.
I don’t know if anyone will understand that paragraph, because it is absurd, but that’s really how I feel. In a way, it sounds peaceful, doesn’t it? It is. I used to think that the people who commit suicide do so in a fit of despair or anger. And I still think that’s true, sometimes. But for me, the worst moments have never been like that. I can grow from pain and I can temper anger, but I cannot process nothingness, when every moment is a second and a day and a year at once, all bumping into each other with nothing to distinguish them. I am dead inside in the sense that, many times, I feel nothing at all. I don't know how to explain that in a way that is comprehensible to people who haven't experienced it, but I can't tolerate it. It's too much. I do these things automatically because I like to help people and because it makes me sad to see people in difficulty (homeless people etc., I always give them whatever I can afford to give). I don't know if I am myself depressed, mainly because I can function for the most part relatively well, and find moments of excitement and sadness for example when playing a childhood sport of mine or a game of CS or DotA. I've never went to see a doctor. However, in my daily life I constantly find myself in a situation where time goes by, and afterwards I notice I wasn't really feeling or thinking anything. I was just floating. I come from a family where my mother is extremely active and energetic, but my father was very similar to myself and "suffered" from a bit similar feelings of nothingness, as far as I could tell in my youth and from stories. Often times my mother or someone else does me a favor, and asks if it is nice that they did this thing for me. Pretty much always the truth is that I really don't feel anything. I don't feel anything when someone does me an act of kindness. I've been raised to treat people well, and come to aid of friends and family in need, and I continue to do that, but I still don't feel anything. Not when receiving, not when giving. Reading your experience gave me some perspective to my own situation, because it is really not easy to discuss these things even with a close family member. "Why are you feeling absent?" and other kinds of questions that start with "Why?" are all too common, and the answer is always the same: I don't know. I don't have a clear rational reason for anything. I wish you good luck, and thank you for your story. based on that, you cannot be diagnosed with dysthymic/MDD
Tbh, I'm capable of functioning some of the time, too, in a moment-to-moment kind of way. But I don't have much consistency and I can't take on large tasks without being overwhelmed. Sucks.
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The most effective treatments of depression are exercise and talk therapy. You can also force yourself into being active to helping people. In severe cases, drugs are needed to help a person get to the level where they can do the aforementioned things. Then hopefully ween off the drugs and stick with the regimen.
Whenever I feel shit, I force myself to lift heavy weights and listen to audio books or podcasts. Specifically psychology related subjects. I workout just as much for my brain as I do for my body, maybe even more so.
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On August 07 2013 16:42 MarlieChurphy wrote:
The most effective treatments of depression are exercise and talk therapy. You can also force yourself into being active to helping people. In severe cases, drugs are needed to help a person get to the level where they can do the aforementioned things. Then hopefully ween off the drugs and stick with the regimen.
Whenever I feel shit, I force myself to lift heavy weights and listen to audio books or podcasts. Specifically psychology related subjects. I workout just as much for my brain as I do for my body, maybe even more so.
I don't think I'd be able to do anything at all without my meds at this point, to be honest. But yes, exercise is very helpful. I've found talk therapy mostly useless. Honestly, this sounds really arrogant on my part, but I've found it super hard to find a therapist who doesn't treat me like a complete dumbass. Like, no matter how many times I tell them that I've read tonnes and tonnes of literature about my various illnesses, medications, and episodes, they still treat what I say in a sort of condescending way. I get it, because I'd do the same to other people in a lot of cases, but tbh, the best help for me is when people actually engage my depression on its own terms, rather than try to dismiss all my thoughts as being irrational. They don't feel irrational, so telling me that they are is useless.
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Just keep at it, from what I've gathered it's hard to find a therapist that works for you. This is part of the stigma of therapy. Eventually you will find someone who you can relate with and build a connection with, almost like a good friend. Have you tried volunteer work though, like working at a soup kitchen? Or maybe big brother organization? Helping people is good medicine.
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On August 08 2013 07:48 MarlieChurphy wrote:
Just keep at it, from what I've gathered it's hard to find a therapist that works for you. This is part of the stigma of therapy. Eventually you will find someone who you can relate with and build a connection with, almost like a good friend. Have you tried volunteer work though, like working at a soup kitchen? Or maybe big brother organization? Helping people is good medicine.
That's a good idea. I'll look into that ^^.
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Northern Ireland26794 Posts
On August 08 2013 01:29 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2013 16:42 MarlieChurphy wrote:
The most effective treatments of depression are exercise and talk therapy. You can also force yourself into being active to helping people. In severe cases, drugs are needed to help a person get to the level where they can do the aforementioned things. Then hopefully ween off the drugs and stick with the regimen.
Whenever I feel shit, I force myself to lift heavy weights and listen to audio books or podcasts. Specifically psychology related subjects. I workout just as much for my brain as I do for my body, maybe even more so. I don't think I'd be able to do anything at all without my meds at this point, to be honest. But yes, exercise is very helpful. I've found talk therapy mostly useless. Honestly, this sounds really arrogant on my part, but I've found it super hard to find a therapist who doesn't treat me like a complete dumbass. Like, no matter how many times I tell them that I've read tonnes and tonnes of literature about my various illnesses, medications, and episodes, they still treat what I say in a sort of condescending way. I get it, because I'd do the same to other people in a lot of cases, but tbh, the best help for me is when people actually engage my depression on its own terms, rather than try to dismiss all my thoughts as being irrational. They don't feel irrational, so telling me that they are is useless.
Yeah I feel you there man. I mean my dad had similar issues to me, we kind of had the same psyche split across two bodies so it wasn't so bad when I had him to talk to. Whenever I've gone to therapists or whatever I get the distinct impression that they're just reading off a checklist, and indeed as you say much the of the stuff I've already read the literature on myself. I don't know how you find a similar figure, but I'm sure there's somewhere. Hell I even occasionally PM people on TL if I get the feeling they seem similar to me, and I find some of them good to chat to. Even among my best friends I would be quite atypical in terms of thought processes and the way I go, so maybe try branching out like that?
I'd actually go take yourself off for a bit, do a road trip or something away from your current environment. Don't do it alone but go with a few pals or whatever.
I just went away up the north coast of Ireland there for a few days with my 3 month old kid. No internet, no computer, and a few books on topics I wanted to get around to. Used to spend my entire summers up there as a kid, and going back and really noticing the scenery and stuff was nice.
I don't think 'the internet' is to blame for my mental condition, but I do feel it sometimes contributes to the overwhelming sensory overload I get occasionally.
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On August 11 2013 11:49 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 01:29 Shiori wrote:On August 07 2013 16:42 MarlieChurphy wrote:
The most effective treatments of depression are exercise and talk therapy. You can also force yourself into being active to helping people. In severe cases, drugs are needed to help a person get to the level where they can do the aforementioned things. Then hopefully ween off the drugs and stick with the regimen.
Whenever I feel shit, I force myself to lift heavy weights and listen to audio books or podcasts. Specifically psychology related subjects. I workout just as much for my brain as I do for my body, maybe even more so. I don't think I'd be able to do anything at all without my meds at this point, to be honest. But yes, exercise is very helpful. I've found talk therapy mostly useless. Honestly, this sounds really arrogant on my part, but I've found it super hard to find a therapist who doesn't treat me like a complete dumbass. Like, no matter how many times I tell them that I've read tonnes and tonnes of literature about my various illnesses, medications, and episodes, they still treat what I say in a sort of condescending way. I get it, because I'd do the same to other people in a lot of cases, but tbh, the best help for me is when people actually engage my depression on its own terms, rather than try to dismiss all my thoughts as being irrational. They don't feel irrational, so telling me that they are is useless. Yeah I feel you there man. I mean my dad had similar issues to me, we kind of had the same psyche split across two bodies so it wasn't so bad when I had him to talk to. Whenever I've gone to therapists or whatever I get the distinct impression that they're just reading off a checklist, and indeed as you say much the of the stuff I've already read the literature on myself. I don't know how you find a similar figure, but I'm sure there's somewhere. Hell I even occasionally PM people on TL if I get the feeling they seem similar to me, and I find some of them good to chat to. Even among my best friends I would be quite atypical in terms of thought processes and the way I go, so maybe try branching out like that? I'd actually go take yourself off for a bit, do a road trip or something away from your current environment. Don't do it alone but go with a few pals or whatever. I just went away up the north coast of Ireland there for a few days with my 3 month old kid. No internet, no computer, and a few books on topics I wanted to get around to. Used to spend my entire summers up there as a kid, and going back and really noticing the scenery and stuff was nice. I don't think 'the internet' is to blame for my mental condition, but I do feel it sometimes contributes to the overwhelming sensory overload I get occasionally.
Yeah, my mom is like this. We have a really good connection, which is awesome.
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This blog was really good reading and one of the reasons why I love TL.net blogs. Thanks OP 
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I totally disagree with the assumption that looking for causes is pointless because depression is a state of mind. Little events in your everyday life have an influence on your mood, anxiety, anger. Recognizing and acknowledging those allows you to work with your entourage to prevent them.
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On August 16 2013 21:53 Otolia wrote:
I totally disagree with the assumption that looking for causes is pointless because depression is a state of mind. Little events in your everyday life have an influence on your mood, anxiety, anger. Recognizing and acknowledging those allows you to work with your entourage to prevent them.
They influence one's mood, yes, but, at least in my case, they do not cause my depression. They merely exacerbate or counteract it to some level.
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Thanks for the blog Shiori, very well written.
I suffer from depression as well. Although you could say that I have had some "talent" for it since I was 14, in my case, it was ultimately triggered by something that happened in my life, I lost someone, causing post traumatic stress disorder. Years of extreme negativity eventually became what I now know is called severe depression.
After therapy from a psychologist and exercising didn't (really) help the supervising psychiatrist started, well, testing medication with some success albeit not completely satisfactory yet. I decided to post this to try to explain what it is like, at least for me, although I know that that's not really possible if you haven't experienced it yourself.
Keep in mind it's not 1 thing, I can experience several things (some at the same time) So here goes nothing.
Spoilered because it's a bit long.
+ Show Spoiler +My perception of the world chances. Everything becomes a problem. In the beginning I recall it sometimes fluctuating in a short time. I could think "How can I possibly have this task sorted before tomorrow" followed by "what am I worrying about, I'll have this sorted in no time" back to "How can I possibly have this task sorted before tomorrow" and so on. This is the only thing I've experienced in where the positive way of thinking is more "realistic thinking" than the negative. Most of the time the pessimistic thinking is the more realistic. People (and other animals) seem to be born with rose-coloured glasses. When you're depressed, they come of and you're able to see the emptiness in the world. You see the fairy tails people make to give meaning to their lives, Not just the obvious ones like religious believes (sorry if this offends anyone) but that everyone is doing it all the time. You see them clinging to all kinds of things, be it nationalism, holidays like christmas, postage stamp collections, it doesn't matter what. You see the meaninglessness of all those things, created to mask the emptiness and their inevitable deaths. I knew all of these things before I was really depressed. If you're not depressed these realisations don't matter too much. If you're depressed you are experiencing it. You can't shrug it of. You can't not see it.
Oftentimes I experience that I can't find anything worth doing. I look at things that I normally would find fun but I can't. Nothing is fun. NOTHING. It's not only not fun it sucks, I want to go away from it. But I cannot retreat to a safe place, I cannot go “home” because there is nowhere to go to. Then time starts slowing down and it becomes really dark.
And than there's the panic attacks. Here is the obvious connection to the traumatic stress disorder. I can control it to an extend but I can't make it go away if it happens. My body thinks it's in danger but it isn't. Once I had an attack of vertigo while I was attending a F1 race. There was no real reason to feel that but my body just kept on setting of the alarm bells.
The first time pills had a clear effect I was so happy (lol), It felt so good to finally feel good again. Unfortunately it wasn't to last. I'm on different medication now but probably will need something else again. The pills are doing something but I never felt so released from the misery like I did from the first pills, in the beginning.
I sometime experience something that's called “depersonalization”. Among other things I feel like I'm behind my body and I have to steer it to avoid people noticing something is wrong. It's very tiring.
Kind of a funny thing is that I also become more stupid when it happens. I cannot find words and stuff like that. Also because I can't really be bothered to try harder.
These things come and go, I'm not always experiencing it but I never feel truly happy. I have to avoid drinking too much alcohol because it will definitely trigger an episode. There's more I could add, I could expand on things or maybe better describe some things I've written. Maybe I'll edit it in later.
It's hard to describe these things because of the chance in perception. I cannot really express the feelings if I'm not having them because I just see things differently then. That's it (for now) I hope it makes any sense.
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You see the meaninglessness of all those things, created to mask the emptiness and their inevitable deaths. I knew all of these things before I was really depressed. If you're not depressed these realisations don't matter too much. If you're depressed you are experiencing it. You can't shrug it of. You can't not see it.
I really, really can relate to this.
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Very, very nice read.
I'm currently going in a really *down* mood for a long while, and this really lightened me up.
EDIT:
What I've seemed to notice is that asking any question about the depression itself would be downright hard to answer
because when you're depressed there's a sense that you don't really even know what you're even thinking.
..I really, really envy them. They have their imperfections, and some of the things that they do are immoral, but they're also much happier than I am. And I love them, honestly. I might say I hate them sometimes, but I really love them. That's why I can't become cynical; deep down, I'm glad they are alive and happy and full of life. I'm really, really glad that they seem to be finding their place in the world a little easier than I am (I'm aware that that sounds really arrogant, but it's honestly the way I feel a lot of the time). And it's not like I'm perfect or perfectly moral myself, either. I really wish I was someone else, and I don't mean that in a condescending "I'm smarter than you plebeians" kind of way. The stuff that most people I've known look forward to/dream of/are content with...just doesn't do anything for me. And I have no idea what to replace it with.
Really hit the nail on it.
Honestly what I've learned to do is to accept that I am irrational and can never have a correct view of who I am/what I'm experiencing, that I would fail all the time if I tried to explain what I'm feeling to someone, because I don't even know what I'm actually feeling. The world is painted in different colors, what I did was hide behind the colors that my mind was inventing.
When the.... feelings (was kind of a mixture of sadless/hopelessness/despair, but not feeling nothing) started happening, I would use videogames as a kind of way to make me feel better. Oftentimes I would even forget I was feeling bad for a while, but those fluctuations kept happening consistently. I would cry in the bus, I would cry in my bed, and what I kept doing was to do things that made me ignore it. My intense mood drop happens after someone/something in some way makes me frustrated, that's always the correlation. So in a sense it's like a warning sign. It's like knowing a tsunami will come, but you will have to bear the waves.
But hey! It started decreasing for a while while I'm on vacation :D
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EPT
