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United Kingdom14103 Posts
On July 12 2013 06:33 Yonnua wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2013 06:23 Musicus wrote:On July 12 2013 06:14 GTPGlitch wrote:
How stephano is still number 1 is beyond me :/ He was the best in WCS EU, so until they prove they are better than him in this season he is still number 1. A tournament like MLG, where not all the best foreigners play (only 4 europeans I think) isn't as good an indicator as WCS EU where they all play imo. If only Scarlett and Snute would also play EU. Yeah WCS EU was a much better tournament than MLG. I mean, Hyun, HerO, Jaedong and Dear are pretty good players, but they're nowhere near as good as TLO, DIMAGA, Babyknight and Happy! I mean, if those guys had been at MLG then maybe we'd be able to see Naniwa compete against the same caliber of player that Stephano did...
lol
Nice ranking, not too much to disagree with, maybe MajOr a bit high although I do love him so he can stay.
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On July 12 2013 06:33 Yonnua wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2013 06:23 Musicus wrote:On July 12 2013 06:14 GTPGlitch wrote:
How stephano is still number 1 is beyond me :/ He was the best in WCS EU, so until they prove they are better than him in this season he is still number 1. A tournament like MLG, where not all the best foreigners play (only 4 europeans I think) isn't as good an indicator as WCS EU where they all play imo. If only Scarlett and Snute would also play EU. Yeah WCS EU was a much better tournament than MLG. I mean, Hyun, HerO, Jaedong and Dear are pretty good players, but they're nowhere near as good as TLO, DIMAGA, Babyknight and Happy! I mean, if those guys had been at MLG then maybe we'd be able to see Naniwa compete against the same caliber of player that Stephano did...
You didn't get my point. MLG was harder than WCS EU. But what I was trying to say is, that if you want to determine who is the best between Stephano, Lucifron and Naniwa, you should look a tournament where they all played instead only one of them. You can't tell how Lucifron and Stephano might've done at MLG, they could've beaten Naniwa on the way and placed higher than him, or failed horribly. But you can tell how Naniwa did in WCS EU, and he went out in the ro16 without winning a map in a group with Vortix, Babyknight and Happy. So I think Naniwa has a good chance of being the best foreigner, but he has to prove it in a tournament against those other best foreigners, not by beating koreans in a tournament they didn't attend. So if he is the last foreigner standing this season, he is the best in my eyes. That's all just my opinion and a try to explain why Stephano is still seen as the best by many, no need to get angry or sarcastic.
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I want my man hendralisk. Doing well beatin some koreans in about every qualifier he plays in.
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Pretty decent ranking, i should go back playing sc2 and allin you again =).
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So... Naniwa is vote 2-2 and Stephano is voted 1-6 and Stephano still get a higher ranking? :p Same with dimaga, you rank him 13 and the aligulac rank him 50+ and he still gets a spot at 17 xD
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United Kingdom2331 Posts
On July 12 2013 07:06 Musicus wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2013 06:33 Yonnua wrote:On July 12 2013 06:23 Musicus wrote:On July 12 2013 06:14 GTPGlitch wrote:
How stephano is still number 1 is beyond me :/ He was the best in WCS EU, so until they prove they are better than him in this season he is still number 1. A tournament like MLG, where not all the best foreigners play (only 4 europeans I think) isn't as good an indicator as WCS EU where they all play imo. If only Scarlett and Snute would also play EU. Yeah WCS EU was a much better tournament than MLG. I mean, Hyun, HerO, Jaedong and Dear are pretty good players, but they're nowhere near as good as TLO, DIMAGA, Babyknight and Happy! I mean, if those guys had been at MLG then maybe we'd be able to see Naniwa compete against the same caliber of player that Stephano did... You didn't get my point. MLG was harder than WCS EU. But what I was trying to say is, that if you want to determine who is the best between Stephano, Lucifron and Naniwa, you should look a tournament where they all played instead only one of them. You can't tell how Lucifron and Stephano might've done at MLG, they could've beaten Naniwa on the way and placed higher than him, or failed horribly. But you can tell how Naniwa did in WCS EU, and he went out in the ro16 without winning a map in a group with Vortix, Babyknight and Happy. So I think Naniwa has a good chance of being the best foreigner, but he has to prove it in a tournament against those other best foreigners, not by beating koreans in a tournament they didn't attend. So if he is the last foreigner standing this season, he is the best in my eyes. That's all just my opinion and a try to explain why Stephano is still seen as the best by many, no need to get angry or sarcastic.
"Who knows? Maybe Nerchio is better than Innovation. I mean, they haven't played in the same tournaments so I guess we'll just have to go with our guts and say that Nerchio is better. I mean, he could probably have beaten both Innovation and Soulkey in GSL anyway."
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On July 12 2013 08:24 Fizzy wrote:
So... Naniwa is vote 2-2 and Stephano is voted 1-6 and Stephano still get a higher ranking? :p Same with dimaga, you rank him 13 and the aligulac rank him 50+ and he still gets a spot at 17 xD
It is 75% his own thoughts, otherwise it would only be aligulac. Though a lot of the zergs on there do seem a bit overrated and some of the terrans and toss fairly underrated.
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On July 12 2013 09:03 Yonnua wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2013 07:06 Musicus wrote:On July 12 2013 06:33 Yonnua wrote:On July 12 2013 06:23 Musicus wrote:On July 12 2013 06:14 GTPGlitch wrote:
How stephano is still number 1 is beyond me :/ He was the best in WCS EU, so until they prove they are better than him in this season he is still number 1. A tournament like MLG, where not all the best foreigners play (only 4 europeans I think) isn't as good an indicator as WCS EU where they all play imo. If only Scarlett and Snute would also play EU. Yeah WCS EU was a much better tournament than MLG. I mean, Hyun, HerO, Jaedong and Dear are pretty good players, but they're nowhere near as good as TLO, DIMAGA, Babyknight and Happy! I mean, if those guys had been at MLG then maybe we'd be able to see Naniwa compete against the same caliber of player that Stephano did... You didn't get my point. MLG was harder than WCS EU. But what I was trying to say is, that if you want to determine who is the best between Stephano, Lucifron and Naniwa, you should look a tournament where they all played instead only one of them. You can't tell how Lucifron and Stephano might've done at MLG, they could've beaten Naniwa on the way and placed higher than him, or failed horribly. But you can tell how Naniwa did in WCS EU, and he went out in the ro16 without winning a map in a group with Vortix, Babyknight and Happy. So I think Naniwa has a good chance of being the best foreigner, but he has to prove it in a tournament against those other best foreigners, not by beating koreans in a tournament they didn't attend. So if he is the last foreigner standing this season, he is the best in my eyes. That's all just my opinion and a try to explain why Stephano is still seen as the best by many, no need to get angry or sarcastic. "Who knows? Maybe Nerchio is better than Innovation. I mean, they haven't played in the same tournaments so I guess we'll just have to go with our guts and say that Nerchio is better. I mean, he could probably have beaten both Innovation and Soulkey in GSL anyway."
In what tournament did Nerchio outperform Innovation? None, so your comparison is a failure.
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United Kingdom2331 Posts
On July 12 2013 09:16 pwnz0r wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2013 09:03 Yonnua wrote:On July 12 2013 07:06 Musicus wrote:On July 12 2013 06:33 Yonnua wrote:On July 12 2013 06:23 Musicus wrote:On July 12 2013 06:14 GTPGlitch wrote:
How stephano is still number 1 is beyond me :/ He was the best in WCS EU, so until they prove they are better than him in this season he is still number 1. A tournament like MLG, where not all the best foreigners play (only 4 europeans I think) isn't as good an indicator as WCS EU where they all play imo. If only Scarlett and Snute would also play EU. Yeah WCS EU was a much better tournament than MLG. I mean, Hyun, HerO, Jaedong and Dear are pretty good players, but they're nowhere near as good as TLO, DIMAGA, Babyknight and Happy! I mean, if those guys had been at MLG then maybe we'd be able to see Naniwa compete against the same caliber of player that Stephano did... You didn't get my point. MLG was harder than WCS EU. But what I was trying to say is, that if you want to determine who is the best between Stephano, Lucifron and Naniwa, you should look a tournament where they all played instead only one of them. You can't tell how Lucifron and Stephano might've done at MLG, they could've beaten Naniwa on the way and placed higher than him, or failed horribly. But you can tell how Naniwa did in WCS EU, and he went out in the ro16 without winning a map in a group with Vortix, Babyknight and Happy. So I think Naniwa has a good chance of being the best foreigner, but he has to prove it in a tournament against those other best foreigners, not by beating koreans in a tournament they didn't attend. So if he is the last foreigner standing this season, he is the best in my eyes. That's all just my opinion and a try to explain why Stephano is still seen as the best by many, no need to get angry or sarcastic. "Who knows? Maybe Nerchio is better than Innovation. I mean, they haven't played in the same tournaments so I guess we'll just have to go with our guts and say that Nerchio is better. I mean, he could probably have beaten both Innovation and Soulkey in GSL anyway." In what tournament did Nerchio outperform Innovation? None, so your comparison is a failure.
"Fruitdealer beat Taeja 2-0 in GSL Season One so I guess he's the better player." It's ridiculous logic so stop trying to prop it up by claiming there aren't examples. You don't compare players purely on the basis of X beat Y so X is better. naniwa has beaten better players, he's had better results at better tournaments; he's the better player.
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Moonglade seems low. Besides that it all seems standard.
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On July 12 2013 09:43 Yonnua wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2013 09:16 pwnz0r wrote:On July 12 2013 09:03 Yonnua wrote:On July 12 2013 07:06 Musicus wrote:On July 12 2013 06:33 Yonnua wrote:On July 12 2013 06:23 Musicus wrote:On July 12 2013 06:14 GTPGlitch wrote:
How stephano is still number 1 is beyond me :/ He was the best in WCS EU, so until they prove they are better than him in this season he is still number 1. A tournament like MLG, where not all the best foreigners play (only 4 europeans I think) isn't as good an indicator as WCS EU where they all play imo. If only Scarlett and Snute would also play EU. Yeah WCS EU was a much better tournament than MLG. I mean, Hyun, HerO, Jaedong and Dear are pretty good players, but they're nowhere near as good as TLO, DIMAGA, Babyknight and Happy! I mean, if those guys had been at MLG then maybe we'd be able to see Naniwa compete against the same caliber of player that Stephano did... You didn't get my point. MLG was harder than WCS EU. But what I was trying to say is, that if you want to determine who is the best between Stephano, Lucifron and Naniwa, you should look a tournament where they all played instead only one of them. You can't tell how Lucifron and Stephano might've done at MLG, they could've beaten Naniwa on the way and placed higher than him, or failed horribly. But you can tell how Naniwa did in WCS EU, and he went out in the ro16 without winning a map in a group with Vortix, Babyknight and Happy. So I think Naniwa has a good chance of being the best foreigner, but he has to prove it in a tournament against those other best foreigners, not by beating koreans in a tournament they didn't attend. So if he is the last foreigner standing this season, he is the best in my eyes. That's all just my opinion and a try to explain why Stephano is still seen as the best by many, no need to get angry or sarcastic. "Who knows? Maybe Nerchio is better than Innovation. I mean, they haven't played in the same tournaments so I guess we'll just have to go with our guts and say that Nerchio is better. I mean, he could probably have beaten both Innovation and Soulkey in GSL anyway." In what tournament did Nerchio outperform Innovation? None, so your comparison is a failure. "Fruitdealer beat Taeja 2-0 in GSL Season One so I guess he's the better player." It's ridiculous logic so stop trying to prop it up by claiming there aren't examples. You don't compare players purely on the basis of X beat Y so X is better. naniwa has beaten better players, he's had better results at better tournaments; he's the better player.
Naniwa has also had worse results at worse tournaments. His inconsistency is why he isn't the best foreigner. He flamed out in the WCS EU round of 16 in a group with happy, babyknight, and vortix. How does losing that early in the tournament make him the better player? Maybe once Stephano retires he'll be able to take that mantle, but not yet.
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China6330 Posts
Try include some Chinese players, who took 4 places in WCS AM Premier, 2nd biggest non-Korean presense in there just behind America, and they qualify by stomping almost the entire foreigner line-up (save for the very top like Scarlett and Demuslim) and even some mid-tier Koreans.
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I agree with it mostly although i'd maybe put  dimaga up a bit more, his recent WCS run can't really be ignored. although he lost in his recent bracket so I suppose you could be right. Just my 2 cent's anyway, nice list on the whole though 
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I think iaguz should be there. He did after all beat moonglade and qualify for IEM Shanghai.
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United Kingdom2331 Posts
On July 12 2013 11:48 pwnz0r wrote:
Naniwa has also had worse results at worse tournaments. His inconsistency is why he isn't the best foreigner. He flamed out in the WCS EU round of 16 in a group with happy, babyknight, and vortix. How does losing that early in the tournament make him the better player? Maybe once Stephano retires he'll be able to take that mantle, but not yet.
His WCS ro16 was 2 months ago, I don't know why you think it's some golden bullet to why Stephano should have a higher ranking in July. Naniwa's just beaten the best other foreigner at WCS EU, so he's clearly doing better than he was 2 months ago. Stephano doesn't just get "auto-best-foreigner-forever" because he once had decent results. He no longer does, he's no longer the best; he's arguably not even top 5.
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On July 12 2013 11:48 pwnz0r wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2013 09:43 Yonnua wrote:On July 12 2013 09:16 pwnz0r wrote:On July 12 2013 09:03 Yonnua wrote:On July 12 2013 07:06 Musicus wrote:On July 12 2013 06:33 Yonnua wrote:On July 12 2013 06:23 Musicus wrote:On July 12 2013 06:14 GTPGlitch wrote:
How stephano is still number 1 is beyond me :/ He was the best in WCS EU, so until they prove they are better than him in this season he is still number 1. A tournament like MLG, where not all the best foreigners play (only 4 europeans I think) isn't as good an indicator as WCS EU where they all play imo. If only Scarlett and Snute would also play EU. Yeah WCS EU was a much better tournament than MLG. I mean, Hyun, HerO, Jaedong and Dear are pretty good players, but they're nowhere near as good as TLO, DIMAGA, Babyknight and Happy! I mean, if those guys had been at MLG then maybe we'd be able to see Naniwa compete against the same caliber of player that Stephano did... You didn't get my point. MLG was harder than WCS EU. But what I was trying to say is, that if you want to determine who is the best between Stephano, Lucifron and Naniwa, you should look a tournament where they all played instead only one of them. You can't tell how Lucifron and Stephano might've done at MLG, they could've beaten Naniwa on the way and placed higher than him, or failed horribly. But you can tell how Naniwa did in WCS EU, and he went out in the ro16 without winning a map in a group with Vortix, Babyknight and Happy. So I think Naniwa has a good chance of being the best foreigner, but he has to prove it in a tournament against those other best foreigners, not by beating koreans in a tournament they didn't attend. So if he is the last foreigner standing this season, he is the best in my eyes. That's all just my opinion and a try to explain why Stephano is still seen as the best by many, no need to get angry or sarcastic. "Who knows? Maybe Nerchio is better than Innovation. I mean, they haven't played in the same tournaments so I guess we'll just have to go with our guts and say that Nerchio is better. I mean, he could probably have beaten both Innovation and Soulkey in GSL anyway." In what tournament did Nerchio outperform Innovation? None, so your comparison is a failure. "Fruitdealer beat Taeja 2-0 in GSL Season One so I guess he's the better player." It's ridiculous logic so stop trying to prop it up by claiming there aren't examples. You don't compare players purely on the basis of X beat Y so X is better. naniwa has beaten better players, he's had better results at better tournaments; he's the better player. Naniwa has also had worse results at worse tournaments. His inconsistency is why he isn't the best foreigner. He flamed out in the WCS EU round of 16 in a group with happy, babyknight, and vortix. How does losing that early in the tournament make him the better player? Maybe once Stephano retires he'll be able to take that mantle, but not yet.
stephano has had one second place in a mostly foreigner event, naniwa has a second place and a top 4 at korean dominated events. and naniwa is the one who lacks consistency. where is the logic?
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On July 12 2013 06:42 RiSkysc2 wrote:
snute should be at least in top 3. He has won the most money in 2013 for foreigners.
Also he beat Stephano 3-1 quite easily recently at HSC.
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On July 12 2013 18:58 Ballesvette wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2013 11:48 pwnz0r wrote:On July 12 2013 09:43 Yonnua wrote:On July 12 2013 09:16 pwnz0r wrote:On July 12 2013 09:03 Yonnua wrote:On July 12 2013 07:06 Musicus wrote:On July 12 2013 06:33 Yonnua wrote:On July 12 2013 06:23 Musicus wrote:On July 12 2013 06:14 GTPGlitch wrote:
How stephano is still number 1 is beyond me :/ He was the best in WCS EU, so until they prove they are better than him in this season he is still number 1. A tournament like MLG, where not all the best foreigners play (only 4 europeans I think) isn't as good an indicator as WCS EU where they all play imo. If only Scarlett and Snute would also play EU. Yeah WCS EU was a much better tournament than MLG. I mean, Hyun, HerO, Jaedong and Dear are pretty good players, but they're nowhere near as good as TLO, DIMAGA, Babyknight and Happy! I mean, if those guys had been at MLG then maybe we'd be able to see Naniwa compete against the same caliber of player that Stephano did... You didn't get my point. MLG was harder than WCS EU. But what I was trying to say is, that if you want to determine who is the best between Stephano, Lucifron and Naniwa, you should look a tournament where they all played instead only one of them. You can't tell how Lucifron and Stephano might've done at MLG, they could've beaten Naniwa on the way and placed higher than him, or failed horribly. But you can tell how Naniwa did in WCS EU, and he went out in the ro16 without winning a map in a group with Vortix, Babyknight and Happy. So I think Naniwa has a good chance of being the best foreigner, but he has to prove it in a tournament against those other best foreigners, not by beating koreans in a tournament they didn't attend. So if he is the last foreigner standing this season, he is the best in my eyes. That's all just my opinion and a try to explain why Stephano is still seen as the best by many, no need to get angry or sarcastic. "Who knows? Maybe Nerchio is better than Innovation. I mean, they haven't played in the same tournaments so I guess we'll just have to go with our guts and say that Nerchio is better. I mean, he could probably have beaten both Innovation and Soulkey in GSL anyway." In what tournament did Nerchio outperform Innovation? None, so your comparison is a failure. "Fruitdealer beat Taeja 2-0 in GSL Season One so I guess he's the better player." It's ridiculous logic so stop trying to prop it up by claiming there aren't examples. You don't compare players purely on the basis of X beat Y so X is better. naniwa has beaten better players, he's had better results at better tournaments; he's the better player. Naniwa has also had worse results at worse tournaments. His inconsistency is why he isn't the best foreigner. He flamed out in the WCS EU round of 16 in a group with happy, babyknight, and vortix. How does losing that early in the tournament make him the better player? Maybe once Stephano retires he'll be able to take that mantle, but not yet. stephano has had one second place in a mostly foreigner event, naniwa has a second place and a top 4 at korean dominated events. and naniwa is the one who lacks consistency. where is the logic?
Consistency" means doing well in almost every event you enter. I´m a fan of Nani, but while he had great runs at DH Stockholm and MLG, he did go out pretty early at DH Summer and WCS EU, so you ca´nt really call him consitent. I´d still give him the advantadge over Stephano though, since Stephano had quite a few early dropouts as well.
In general I agree with the ranking, but major... I know, that a lot of people speak very high of him, but statistically there is no real evidence for that. I mean, according to Aligulac, he hasn´t won a bo3 against a european or korean player in the entire 2013.
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I don't get why Stephano is #1, at all.
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EPT
