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Active: 607 users

WCS : No China, and no Taiwan.

Blogs > Enders116
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BreAKerTV
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Taiwan1658 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-05 21:15:13
April 04 2013 04:19 GMT
#1
-
This video is uploading right now, will probably be processing or just finishing up as you guys are reading this.

I was actually looking forward to this year's WCS. My main reason was I was hoping to be at WCS China or WCS Taiwan casting the event in person. Now, not so much. I really wanted to be the English caster for the WCS Taiwan and China. People in both of these regions generally know who I am as a caster, and a Chinese learner. I am disappointed to the point that I no longer feel any hate, any anger, or anything else in between. I would have made the ideal candidate to do this.

Maybe this is a wake up call? Maybe this just says I'm not supposed to have a job in eSports.

But let us also not forget about Oceania, South America and any other country in between that I might have failed to mention. They too have strong talent, PiG and Killer (formerly known as DignitasKiller).

That is not to say, however, that players from these regions will not have chances to compete, but I think it is absolutely absurd that audiences will have to tolerate watching members of Gamabears, TTESports, Invictus Gaming, World Elite, as well as many an Australian fighting the incredibly stacked odds of the Korean Code S players of the GSL.

Is there something wrong with holding a BWC all over again, and then allowing each country to have X number of representatives like last year? Blizzard is burning bridges with this. And China and Taiwan are not exceptions.

-BreAKer, out.

EDIT: I will gather thoughts from casting personalities and players from both the Chinese and Taiwanese regions and see what they think in the up and coming 24 hours. I will give everyone both the raw untranslated interviews and my own translations (The former will be to ensure that the most accurate translations will be provided from other TL.net members whose Chinese skills are better than my own.)

Thoughts of your typical users of NeoTV.cn. If there is any anger in any of these user's hearts, then it is difficult for me to tell.

Adding insult to injury, it would seem that HoTS hasn't even been released in China yet. Way to go Blizzard!

This is what XiaoSe had to say to me over Weixin just now:
+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]

Forenote: XiaoSe is the Day[9] of China. Many of you don't have a clue who he is because you don't speak Chinese. He is a master's rank 1 random player on the Korean server and a huge casting figure. He was the Chinese caster for the NSL, and I want to say that he casted the BWC 2012 in Chinese.

Translation: I originally asked him "XiaoSe, I'm gathering information and doing interviews. This year's WCS excludes Taiwanese and Chinese events. We all know that Chinese and Taiwanese competitors still have a chance. What do you think their chances are like? What do you think of this new system? Do you have any concerns in particular that you want our western friends to know?"

He replied: They have no chance. WCS in Asia just means Koreans playing. I don't understand why Blizzard would give up on the Chinese market and exert all their strength on the Korean market. All of Asia's market is equal to that of China as a whole, does this mean that Blizzard is Blind?".


SoBadRush, The Father of Taiwan's Starcraft 2 pro scene gives his opinion.
+ Show Spoiler +
我認為WCS制度是一個很好的制度,但只分歐亞美三區會導致實力落差過大,且其它地區的選手甚至沒機會展現實力(只是因為他們不在賽事主辦國)
.

Translation: I think [this] WCS system is a very good system, but just dividing [the tournament] into Europe, Asia, And America for three districts is controlling the flow of talent and making a huge gap, and to the extent that other regions' competitors will have no chance to show their might (this is because they are not at the tournaments administrative countries.)

Personal reflection. I can see how SoBadRush empathizes with blizzard for making this decision, but at the same time he makes the same complaint that I do: pro players from these regions basically have no chance to make it to this year's BWC.


*
Retired caster / streamer "BingeHD". Digital Nomad.
haduken
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
Australia8267 Posts
April 04 2013 06:09 GMT
#2
Not sure what you are trying to say here... why is it absurd?
Rillanon.au
RiceAgainst
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United States1849 Posts
April 04 2013 06:11 GMT
#3
Unless they make major tournaments in the China/Taiwan region worth a lot of WCS points, I totally agree with you. "Oh but the players could just play in NA/EU online tournament from Taiwan/China/SEA". Yeah but Koreans might as well (and probably will) do the same.
ETisME
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
12391 Posts
April 04 2013 07:12 GMT
#4
I thought you had quite a number of wake up calls already from a few of your blogs....
其疾如风,其徐如林,侵掠如火,不动如山,难知如阴,动如雷震。
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-04 07:38:52
April 04 2013 07:28 GMT
#5
On April 04 2013 16:12 ETisME wrote:
I thought you had quite a number of wake up calls already from a few of your blogs....

Pretty much this.

Read most of your other blogs and you were complaining in a lot of them. Last one I recall, I think it was about lack of pay or something especially when considering how limited esports is and will likely stay that way so it never sounded to me like you were doing this out of passion tbh. Also, why is it absurd? These players can still compete in the NA one or the other regions as they wish. Yes, I'm aware of the lag but this is what Blizzard decided on. They said they may add more regions in the future if I recall correctly so who knows.
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
Nazza
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Australia1654 Posts
April 04 2013 07:34 GMT
#6
Getting a job in ANYTHING is tough right now, let alone esports.
No one ever remembers second place, eh? eh? GIVE ME COMMAND
followZeRoX
Profile Joined March 2011
Serbia1449 Posts
April 04 2013 12:05 GMT
#7
Yes this is absurd. If we look how much talent China has I think its stupid not to try to expand market for sc2 over there, they are like the best players in the world for RTS.

Btw Enders, do you follow Chinese scene? Did you heard anything about Chinese wc3 players switching to sc2 soon? I mean WE team and players like Sky,infi,Fly100%,TeD and others.
Scarecrow
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Korea (South)9172 Posts
April 04 2013 12:06 GMT
#8
They're going to have to beat Koreans at some point. No point coddling these scenes.
Yhamm is the god of predictions
skyyan
Profile Joined April 2012
United States74 Posts
April 04 2013 12:10 GMT
#9
I think the problem is that there are going to be people playing Starcraft pretty much everywhere, but it isn't really logical for Blizzard to be able to host WCS qualifying events on every corner of the planet. The line has to be drawn somewhere, and while it's understandably unfortunate that China/Taiwan/SEA are not included, I still feel that the regions that were decided on in the end have a Starcraft presence that is multiple orders of magnitude above any other. There are alternative (while difficult) ways for players from anywhere to still be able to compete in WCS (partially thanks to global play, which is great). All in all, something is always going to be sacrificed no matter what Blizzard chooses. In this instance, I stand behind them in full support.
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/457733/1/skyyan/
Sated
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
England4983 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-04 12:23:09
April 04 2013 12:12 GMT
#10
--- Nuked ---
BreAKerTV
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Taiwan1658 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-04 14:15:04
April 04 2013 13:16 GMT
#11
On April 04 2013 21:05 ZeRoX-45 wrote:
Yes this is absurd. If we look how much talent China has I think its stupid not to try to expand market for sc2 over there, they are like the best players in the world for RTS.

Btw Enders, do you follow Chinese scene? Did you heard anything about Chinese wc3 players switching to sc2 soon? I mean WE team and players like Sky,infi,Fly100%,TeD and others.

I was the English caster for the NSL. I'll be at home in a few minutes, where I will post a link to a thread that I made on neotv.cn regarding this.

EDIT: Here you go.
Retired caster / streamer "BingeHD". Digital Nomad.
DusTerr
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
2520 Posts
April 04 2013 13:27 GMT
#12
On April 04 2013 21:12 Sated wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 04 2013 21:06 Scarecrow wrote:
They're going to have to beat Koreans at some point. No point coddling these scenes.

And teams in the Champion's League are going to have to beat Barcelona at some point, but that doesn't stop us from having teams from Wales, Ireland and Northern Ireland attempt to qualify.

If you set-up the structure properly, you can have excitement at all levels for everyone involved. This allows new scenes to develop, allows people to see games between people of equal skill at all stages (that the skill isn't the highest won't be as important, two equally skilled players can always produce exciting games), and still maintains the very high-quality games we're used to seeing as the tournament progresses to more serious stages. You won't get everyone in eSports watching every single stage of the tournment; some will follow all the qualifiers, some only their own countries, some only the main tournament or bigger qualifiers, but it will grow the scene better than what Blizzard has come up with, which basically amounts to monopolising the current scene instead of growing it.

Blizzard needs to take a look at what's probably the most popular sport on the planet and learn some lessons.

Soccer (as you Brits named it) is the most popular sport in the world because it requires nothing more than a ball. Hell, I've seen kids roll socks into a ball and play. It's not popular because of tournaments and marketing.

AFAIK no one is stopping anyone from South America, Africa, SEA or China from competing in ANY of the WCS regions (just competing in more than one).
docvoc
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States5491 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-04 13:52:48
April 04 2013 13:51 GMT
#13
On April 04 2013 21:12 Sated wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 04 2013 21:06 Scarecrow wrote:
They're going to have to beat Koreans at some point. No point coddling these scenes.

And teams in the Champion's League are going to have to beat Barcelona at some point, but that doesn't stop us from having teams from Wales, Ireland and Northern Ireland attempt to qualify.

If you set-up the structure properly, you can have excitement at all levels for everyone involved. This allows new scenes to develop, allows people to see games between people of equal skill at all stages (that the skill isn't the highest won't be as important, two equally skilled players can always produce exciting games), and still maintains the very high-quality games we're used to seeing as the tournament progresses to more serious stages. You won't get everyone in eSports watching every single stage of the tournment; some will follow all the qualifiers, some only their own countries, some only the main tournament or bigger qualifiers, but it will grow the scene better than what Blizzard has come up with, which basically amounts to monopolising the current scene instead of growing it.

Blizzard needs to take a look at what's probably the most popular sport on the planet and learn some lessons.

This isn't like club football at all. WCS is not a team league, this is a solo event. All of these players can compete in the WCS, all of these markets can. I'm sure blizzard has a plan for China, after all China made WC3 what it is today. As for SEA, this is a solo event, they are going to have to play koreans eventually. There is no point in making these scenes able to sustain people who cannot compete at higher levels, the pro scene won't grow nearly as quickly. Also, the scene is obviously not growing bigger and better than what blizz has come up with, it came out literally a couple days ago. If you have watched LCS from Riot than you'd realize how much of a better system this is.
User was warned for too many mimes.
BreAKerTV
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Taiwan1658 Posts
April 04 2013 14:08 GMT
#14
On April 04 2013 22:51 docvoc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 04 2013 21:12 Sated wrote:
On April 04 2013 21:06 Scarecrow wrote:
They're going to have to beat Koreans at some point. No point coddling these scenes.

And teams in the Champion's League are going to have to beat Barcelona at some point, but that doesn't stop us from having teams from Wales, Ireland and Northern Ireland attempt to qualify.

If you set-up the structure properly, you can have excitement at all levels for everyone involved. This allows new scenes to develop, allows people to see games between people of equal skill at all stages (that the skill isn't the highest won't be as important, two equally skilled players can always produce exciting games), and still maintains the very high-quality games we're used to seeing as the tournament progresses to more serious stages. You won't get everyone in eSports watching every single stage of the tournment; some will follow all the qualifiers, some only their own countries, some only the main tournament or bigger qualifiers, but it will grow the scene better than what Blizzard has come up with, which basically amounts to monopolising the current scene instead of growing it.

Blizzard needs to take a look at what's probably the most popular sport on the planet and learn some lessons.

This isn't like club football at all. WCS is not a team league, this is a solo event. All of these players can compete in the WCS, all of these markets can. I'm sure blizzard has a plan for China, after all China made WC3 what it is today. As for SEA, this is a solo event, they are going to have to play koreans eventually. There is no point in making these scenes able to sustain people who cannot compete at higher levels, the pro scene won't grow nearly as quickly. Also, the scene is obviously not growing bigger and better than what blizz has come up with, it came out literally a couple days ago. If you have watched LCS from Riot than you'd realize how much of a better system this is.

Docvoc, the biggest problem is that this smothers any chance that talent from China, Taiwan or Australia may have to actually get in on this years BWC. I mean, forget the fact that Sen basically slaughters any opponents he faces internally in Taiwan, he is a symbol of pride to anyone who speaks Chinese and plays Starcraft 2. SpiderComm, although he only made it to the round of 32, still represented National Chinese Pride with the fact that he had a chance at the BWC, that he was the player who actually represented China, and he would be facing the world's finest.

Now, I think it is increasingly less likely that we will see anyone who speaks Chinese as their mother-tongue (Except for maybe Suppy, who moreover represents America) that will make it to this year's BWC.
Retired caster / streamer "BingeHD". Digital Nomad.
Chaggi
Profile Joined August 2010
Korea (South)1936 Posts
April 04 2013 14:17 GMT
#15
I mean, so what? Just compete with the Koreans like it seems like what the other regions are going to have to do.
Bunn
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Estonia934 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-04 14:22:56
April 04 2013 14:22 GMT
#16
Yeah, it's surprising that Blizzard doesn't recognize Chinese esport scene That's a significant amount of people that will probably have no chances of qualifying to world championship then. Yes, you may say that "oh, qualify through Korean league", but is it fair? No, it's fundamentally wrong. Europe, NA, and Korea; two continents, and suddenly a single country. It seems like Koreans are more superior and require their own league, while other people living in Asia are less important. Either change Korea to Asia, or give China and Sea their own qualifiers. South - America shouldn't be treated differently as well.
"There are no limits. There are plateaus, but you must not stay there, you must go beyond them. If it kills you, it kills you. A man must constantly exceed his level." - Bruce Lee
BreAKerTV
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Taiwan1658 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-04 14:40:06
April 04 2013 14:23 GMT
#17
On April 04 2013 23:17 Chaggi wrote:
I mean, so what? Just compete with the Koreans like it seems like what the other regions are going to have to do.

Yes, but this is taking all hope to Chinese, Taiwanese, and Australians to absolutely zero.

Imagine, for a minute, that there was a tournament for, I donno, DFO (Dungeon Fighter Online), and it excluded everyone from the North American server because translating is too much trouble or airfare is too expensive, or quality can't be assured, etc.

I know DFO is not that popular in the USA, but come on. SC2 is the second most popular competitive game in Taiwan, and there are a few others in mainland China that supercede SC2 as well.

EDIT: Input from Chinese casting legend XiaoSe has just been added to the OP.
Retired caster / streamer "BingeHD". Digital Nomad.
TylerThaCreator
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
United States906 Posts
April 04 2013 14:31 GMT
#18
Ive always preferred fan favorites, storylines, and personality to just watching the highest possible level of play. The idea that we can have the best people from each region representing their countries is a lot more exciting to watch than just a bunch of Koreans..its a true shame whats happening to China this year...hopefully we get sen, pig, moonglade, jim etc from sea/china.
aka SethN
Sated
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
England4983 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-04 14:36:58
April 04 2013 14:36 GMT
#19
--- Nuked ---
kollin
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United Kingdom8380 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-04 15:04:10
April 04 2013 15:02 GMT
#20
So you're bitching and moaning because in the FIRST time Blizzard try something like this, they don't want to overcommit and instead include the three regions that will garner the most viewers and attention. You're just being overly dramatic, let's wait for more than one season of this league and see whether or not the SEAsians and China are included then.
EDIT: The worst part is you're not upset because we don't get to see the potentially great play from the Chinese, you're upset because you have nothing to cast.
Chaggi
Profile Joined August 2010
Korea (South)1936 Posts
April 04 2013 15:06 GMT
#21
On April 04 2013 23:23 Enders116 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 04 2013 23:17 Chaggi wrote:
I mean, so what? Just compete with the Koreans like it seems like what the other regions are going to have to do.

Yes, but this is taking all hope to Chinese, Taiwanese, and Australians to absolutely zero.

Imagine, for a minute, that there was a tournament for, I donno, DFO (Dungeon Fighter Online), and it excluded everyone from the North American server because translating is too much trouble or airfare is too expensive, or quality can't be assured, etc.

I know DFO is not that popular in the USA, but come on. SC2 is the second most popular competitive game in Taiwan, and there are a few others in mainland China that supercede SC2 as well.

EDIT: Input from Chinese casting legend XiaoSe has just been added to the OP.


I guess what I mean is that this isn't a problem just from China, it's a problem all over the world cause Koreans are literally going to go and face off against each other and do whatever. I'm the biggest Korean homer there is, and even I think this is an awful idea. I didn't mean that China/TW/Australia shouldn't have their own, I just mean, it fits with what's happening everywhere else so...
BreAKerTV
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Taiwan1658 Posts
April 04 2013 15:56 GMT
#22
On April 05 2013 00:02 kollin wrote:
So you're bitching and moaning because in the FIRST time Blizzard try something like this, they don't want to overcommit and instead include the three regions that will garner the most viewers and attention. You're just being overly dramatic, let's wait for more than one season of this league and see whether or not the SEAsians and China are included then.
EDIT: The worst part is you're not upset because we don't get to see the potentially great play from the Chinese, you're upset because you have nothing to cast.

Can you find someone else more qualified to do it? I spent a year of my life in China, a semester in Taiwan, I've casted for the NSL, ASL, MSI Pro World Cup Asia Qualifiers... I have direct contacts with TeSL, NSL, G-League, and everything else in between, I speak Chinese to a grade that is fluent enough to study in Chinese Universities.

But to be quite honest with you, Sen is my favorite SC2 player of all time. Following him would have to be XiGua and then MacSed.
Retired caster / streamer "BingeHD". Digital Nomad.
kollin
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United Kingdom8380 Posts
April 04 2013 15:58 GMT
#23
On April 05 2013 00:56 Enders116 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 05 2013 00:02 kollin wrote:
So you're bitching and moaning because in the FIRST time Blizzard try something like this, they don't want to overcommit and instead include the three regions that will garner the most viewers and attention. You're just being overly dramatic, let's wait for more than one season of this league and see whether or not the SEAsians and China are included then.
EDIT: The worst part is you're not upset because we don't get to see the potentially great play from the Chinese, you're upset because you have nothing to cast.

Can you find someone else more qualified to do it? I spent a year of my life in China, a semester in Taiwan, I've casted for the NSL, ASL, MSI Pro World Cup Asia Qualifiers... I have direct contacts with TeSL, NSL, G-League, and everything else in between, I speak Chinese to a grade that is fluent enough to study in Chinese Universities.

But to be quite honest with you, Sen is my favorite SC2 player of all time. Following him would have to be XiGua and then MacSed.

Someone more qualified to cast this? Entirely irrelevant, I didn't doubt your casting ability at all.
digmouse
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
China6329 Posts
April 04 2013 17:07 GMT
#24
Here is the problem: why Blizzard decides to somewhat get rid of WCS China in the first place? WCS China 2012, Asia 2012 and BWC was not as successful as their press release stated. They consider putting China into the pan was a mistake. And as I stated during the TL interview, SCII in China isn't as big as people think, it might still be a big potential market but it realistically isn't going to hurt Blizzard a lot. And without significant player results and big commercial potential, is it worthy to put money, effort and time yet again? They want to focus on the most important regions this year as a first step, sacrifices must be made.
I'm as unhappy and even angry as you are, yet I accept this as hits must be taken for general incompetence of the entire scene for the past years.
Also, they have their own casting choices to do the job, they got Artosis and Rob Simpson last year for WCS China, you are a great caster buddy I love what you did in NSL, but business is business. Sorry to be harsh.
Lastly, as far as I learn from Blizzard and pro teams they have a backup plan about it.
TranslatorIf you want to ask anything about Chinese esports, send me a PM or follow me @nerddigmouse.
TeSLLive2
Profile Joined February 2013
United States35 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-04 17:41:22
April 04 2013 17:23 GMT
#25
On April 05 2013 02:07 digmouse wrote:
Here is the problem: why Blizzard decides to somewhat get rid of WCS China in the first place? WCS China 2012, Asia 2012 and BWC was not as successful as their press release stated. They consider putting China into the pan was a mistake. And as I stated during the TL interview, SCII in China isn't as big as people think, it might still be a big potential market but it realistically isn't going to hurt Blizzard a lot. And without significant player results and big commercial potential, is it worthy to put money, effort and time yet again? They want to focus on the most important regions this year as a first step, sacrifices must be made.
I'm as unhappy and even angry as you are, yet I accept this as hits must be taken for general incompetence of the entire scene for the past years.
Also, they have their own casting choices to do the job, they got Artosis and Rob Simpson last year for WCS China, you are a great caster buddy I love what you did in NSL, but business is business. Sorry to be harsh.
Lastly, as far as I learn from Blizzard and pro teams they have a backup plan about it.

I was actually approached and asked to be the English caster for WCS Taipei 2012 (I think it was Beta who asked me this in person). I couldn't do it because I was supposed to leave one month before it happened. My parents wouldn't let me stay.

EDIT: Oops. This is Enders116, but I'm responding using google chrome, so I'm logged in as ESLTaiwan.
Dubzex
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6994 Posts
April 04 2013 18:09 GMT
#26


Oops
"DONT UNDERESTIMATE MY CARRY OR YOU WILL BE CARRIED INTO THE ABYSS OF SUFFERING" - Tyler 'TC' Cook
SAxmoe
Profile Joined December 2012
China4 Posts
April 04 2013 18:32 GMT
#27
I just don't want to see the final is 16 KR。BLZ would make a limit to make KR get the place in KR。Or whats the difference of BWC and GSL?
ps:BLZ could give the right of broadcast to China media,so they would not pay more for that。it's good for SC2 spread in China.
Only Korea,Starcraft 2 is lonely!
無限大な夢のあとの 何もない世の中じゃ そうさ愛しい 想いも負けそうになるけど
docvoc
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States5491 Posts
April 04 2013 18:44 GMT
#28
On April 05 2013 03:09 Dubzex wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HilyOLWzrM

Oops

LOL

Also, I like how a little bit ago people were complaining about Foreigners not being able to compete and how the scenes should be more integrated, now when we integrate and force people to play at the highest levels, they complain. All changes are met with complaints.
User was warned for too many mimes.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18826 Posts
April 04 2013 18:52 GMT
#29
On April 05 2013 03:09 Dubzex wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HilyOLWzrM


Oops

This further confirms my theory that there is an appropriate snippet of IASIP for almost every scenario in life.

As to the topic at hand, I think it sucks, but past a certain point, the rest of the world can only concern itself with China's insular way of doing things so much. I would think that Blizzard most definitely interacted with the idea of continuing the WCS in China only to obviously come to the conclusion that such a pursuit was not worth the resources.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
Bagration
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States18282 Posts
April 04 2013 19:36 GMT
#30
Well, it's unfortunate. I would have liked if if Blizz had divided the regions in EU, NA and Asia, rather than EU, NA, and KR. Just so that it's a bit more inclusive though end results will likely be the same.

I wish the Chinese scene was as big on SC2 as it is on Dota :\
Team Slayers, Axiom-Acer and Vile forever
babylon
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
8765 Posts
April 04 2013 19:58 GMT
#31
On April 04 2013 21:05 ZeRoX-45 wrote:
Yes this is absurd. If we look how much talent China has I think its stupid not to try to expand market for sc2 over there, they are like the best players in the world for RTS.

Btw Enders, do you follow Chinese scene? Did you heard anything about Chinese wc3 players switching to sc2 soon? I mean WE team and players like Sky,infi,Fly100%,TeD and others.

Sky and TeD aren't switching. They have no interest.

Infi's been mostly mediocre, and Fly's dabbled a little (as Zerg), but I don't know if he cares enough to go hardcore.

Most of the War3 pros are semi-pros these days. They work and play a bit on the side. It's not worth the effort for them. The payout is so low for what they put in, they might as well just keep playing War3.
felisconcolori
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States6168 Posts
April 05 2013 01:43 GMT
#32
The problems Blizzard has in China are not the language. Translation is not unavailable, and you can bet that Blizzard has a presence. As well as Chinese speakers.

There are other considerations with regards to China that you seem to be ignoring. Frankly, China is large enough that they don't need the rest of the eSports scene. The problems Blizzard cited at the announcement were infrastructure related - for various reasons that probably have absolutely zero to do with the players or game itself. Just putting up prize money could be construed as a foreign investment, and they can be pretty heavily scrutinized.

I mean, seriously... there are entire companies whose sole business is to assist companies with navigating the path to investment and business in China for foreign corporations. It more than likely is not worth the expense at this time for Blizzard to move officially into China as an eSports organizer.
Yes, I email sponsors... to thank them. Don't post drunk, kids. My king, what has become of you?
althaz
Profile Joined May 2010
Australia1001 Posts
April 05 2013 01:49 GMT
#33
I definitely agree that there should have been a Chinese region for WCS, for two reasons:

1. It would help to grow Starcraft in what is potentially the biggest parket for eSports.
2. It would entice plenty of Koreans to participate (due to the relative closeness of the two countries geographically), meaning more Koreans (which equals higher quality of play) at the WCS global final.
The first rule we don't talk about race conditions. of race conditions is
OmniEulogy
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada6592 Posts
April 05 2013 02:23 GMT
#34
I feel bad for Sen. That's about it. Maybe Wayi Spider cause I love their team name lol
LiquidDota Staff
haduken
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
Australia8267 Posts
April 05 2013 03:39 GMT
#35
On April 05 2013 10:43 felisconcolori wrote:
The problems Blizzard has in China are not the language. Translation is not unavailable, and you can bet that Blizzard has a presence. As well as Chinese speakers.

I mean, seriously... there are entire companies whose sole business is to assist companies with navigating the path to investment and business in China for foreign corporations. It more than likely is not worth the expense at this time for Blizzard to move officially into China as an eSports organizer.


+1
Rillanon.au
iamho
Profile Joined June 2009
United States3347 Posts
April 05 2013 04:23 GMT
#36
If they're not going to include China or SE Asia then there's no reason to include EU or NA either. Its not like any of the regions besides KR has any shot at all of winning. But if they really cared about expanding professional Starcraft, there's absolutely no justification for them not hosting a WCS Asia/SEA. Once upon a time, China actually could've been the next big thing for Starcraft, remember that huge BW WCG attendance in Shanghai? Now Blizzard has screwed up once again, and China has moved on to playing cruddy MOBA games. I'm sure nobody is a bigger Blizzard fan these days than Riot Games.
endy
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Switzerland8970 Posts
April 05 2013 05:49 GMT
#37
On April 05 2013 13:23 iamho wrote:
If they're not going to include China or SE Asia then there's no reason to include EU or NA either. Its not like any of the regions besides KR has any shot at all of winning. But if they really cared about expanding professional Starcraft, there's absolutely no justification for them not hosting a WCS Asia/SEA. Once upon a time, China actually could've been the next big thing for Starcraft, remember that huge BW WCG attendance in Shanghai? Now Blizzard has screwed up once again, and China has moved on to playing cruddy MOBA games. I'm sure nobody is a bigger Blizzard fan these days than Riot Games.


The huge WCG crowd was in Chengdu not Shanghai. The reason so many people were there was because of WC3 that was even more popular than BW.
Also there are still tons of Blizzard fans in China because of WoW. At the BWC finals in Shanghai, the WoW event attracted way more people than the SC2 event. But you are right that free to play games have taken the market over in China.
ॐ
BreAKerTV
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Taiwan1658 Posts
April 05 2013 05:49 GMT
#38
On April 05 2013 13:23 iamho wrote:
If they're not going to include China or SE Asia then there's no reason to include EU or NA either. Its not like any of the regions besides KR has any shot at all of winning. But if they really cared about expanding professional Starcraft, there's absolutely no justification for them not hosting a WCS Asia/SEA. Once upon a time, China actually could've been the next big thing for Starcraft, remember that huge BW WCG attendance in Shanghai? Now Blizzard has screwed up once again, and China has moved on to playing cruddy MOBA games. I'm sure nobody is a bigger Blizzard fan these days than Riot Games.

THIS...

Is my main point. Brood war in China was probably only outdone by Brood War in Korea, and that's it. All because of LAN support.
Retired caster / streamer "BingeHD". Digital Nomad.
Kaal
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Djibouti2514 Posts
April 05 2013 06:56 GMT
#39
On April 05 2013 13:23 iamho wrote:
If they're not going to include China or SE Asia then there's no reason to include EU or NA either. Its not like any of the regions besides KR has any shot at all of winning. But if they really cared about expanding professional Starcraft, there's absolutely no justification for them not hosting a WCS Asia/SEA. Once upon a time, China actually could've been the next big thing for Starcraft, remember that huge BW WCG attendance in Shanghai? Now Blizzard has screwed up once again, and China has moved on to playing cruddy MOBA games. I'm sure nobody is a bigger Blizzard fan these days than Riot Games.


I don't think China has ever really cared about SC2 the way it cared about BW/Dota/WC3, and if anything it's the fault of the game itself and also the always online portion of battle.net/SC2. If you look at the recent G-league finals and last years ACE league, or the year before thats G-1/ACE league, there were a loooot of empty seats in SC2 and very little sound, but for everything else it was huge.
felisconcolori
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States6168 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-05 08:25:02
April 05 2013 08:24 GMT
#40
On April 05 2013 14:49 Enders116 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 05 2013 13:23 iamho wrote:
If they're not going to include China or SE Asia then there's no reason to include EU or NA either. Its not like any of the regions besides KR has any shot at all of winning. But if they really cared about expanding professional Starcraft, there's absolutely no justification for them not hosting a WCS Asia/SEA. Once upon a time, China actually could've been the next big thing for Starcraft, remember that huge BW WCG attendance in Shanghai? Now Blizzard has screwed up once again, and China has moved on to playing cruddy MOBA games. I'm sure nobody is a bigger Blizzard fan these days than Riot Games.

THIS...

Is my main point. Brood war in China was probably only outdone by Brood War in Korea, and that's it. All because of LAN support.


Actually, there's a great reason to include EU and NA. You can easily invest in both places, have an audience that has a similar gaming and consumer culture, and the barriers to entry are not so high. There's also excellent network infrastructure that is less encumbered by mandatory censorship and network filtering. To say nothing of governmental involvement in business practices - yes, there's regulation, but it seems to be a little more involved for foreign companies seeking to do business in China. Asia in general is a different place than "the West", and China itself has a very complex cultural dynamic that is significantly different from "the West". (Not better, not worse, just different.)

Then, too, SC2 does not have the following in China that BW does. I have no doubt Blizzard is very interested in expanding to China and the rest of SEA, but it takes more time than anywhere else in the current crop of regions.

+ Show Spoiler +
Also, I would say that Brood War's LAN support was very important in China. But not for the reasons you're thinking.
Yes, I email sponsors... to thank them. Don't post drunk, kids. My king, what has become of you?
BreAKerTV
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Taiwan1658 Posts
April 05 2013 16:54 GMT
#41
On April 05 2013 17:24 felisconcolori wrote:
Also, I would say that Brood War's LAN support was very important in China. But not for the reasons you're thinking.
I played Brood War on a "LAN“ before in China. servers were divided up at the provincial level in China. 200 people connected to a single server at a time with the program I played through.
Retired caster / streamer "BingeHD". Digital Nomad.
haduken
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
Australia8267 Posts
April 05 2013 17:13 GMT
#42
Brood war was popular for the same reason it was popular in Korea. It was one of the first games that is widely available pirated and installed in internet cafe and doesn't require a beast computer to run.

Most BW fans in China are oldies well approaching or past 30 now. Almost no new bloods.
Rillanon.au
BreAKerTV
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Taiwan1658 Posts
April 05 2013 21:13 GMT
#43
Now I have updated with input from SoBadRush. If you feel that my translation was inaccurate, then please send me a message or post it here and I will do my best to correct it.
Retired caster / streamer "BingeHD". Digital Nomad.
LlamaNamedOsama
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States1900 Posts
April 06 2013 00:18 GMT
#44
The goal of Blizzard's World Championship series is to unify the scene and create an overarching narrative. They wanted to select the premier tournaments (eg GSL and MLG) because those tournaments contain what the scene recognizes as the big names and the biggest champions.

I agree that it's a shame that it's more difficult for players from China/SEA since they don't have their own regional tournaments. However, I still prefer the premier tournament system over the "offer a local tournament for every region." First, local-based tournaments trade-off with the traditional premier tournaments like MLG, Dreamhack, GSL, etc. It was weird to not see the GSL champions winning WCS Korea, and that largely seems to be a result of the fact that players had to pick priorities in what they dedicated their time towards.Adding WCS qualifiers independent of premier tournaments would contribute to the oversaturation of the tournament scene and further divide both fans' and players' attentions for the scene (when the overall goal, again, is to unify it).

One option is to hybridize the system: allow MLGs and GSLs to represent the current regions as is, but provide WCS qualifiers for the underrepresented regions. Still, it seems unfair to require other regions to go through extremely rigorous premier international tournaments. Yes, we may think that the GSL is more prestigious than the MLG, but let's be real, the level of competition at MLG is nothing to scoff at.

Here's my thoughts on a better solution: use a local WCS qualifier for unrepresented regions, but have that qualify players to participate in one of the premier tournaments that act as WCS qualifiers - eg winning an expense-covered opportunity to participate in GSL/MLG/etc. (with winners of the local WCS qualifier having travel and tournament costs covered).

Another solution is to help foster the big tournaments in said unrepresented region so that it becomes recognizable as a premier-level tournament worthy of WCS qualification. I recall hearing about the NSL in China, but to be honest, I didn't think the tournament was marketed that effectively towards the foreign scene. Don't get me wrong, I loved the intro video that was done, but I didn't see updates/threads for the tournament in the SC2 tournaments threads, I didn't see rebroadcasts at American/European times, etc. It's also tough when you have a pool of players that most aren't familiar with, personalities, performance, or otherwise. Have interviews with the players so that we can see personalities, encourage them to participate in online tournaments like ZOTAC or even big LANs, or bring in other famous casters to duo-cast with you to get broader recognition. Just some thoughts/suggestions.
Dario Wünsch: I guess...Creator...met his maker *sunglasses*
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