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Jeremy Lin and modern racism

Blogs > Funnytoss
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Funnytoss
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Taiwan1471 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-10 08:34:10
April 10 2012 06:11 GMT
#1
I blog about popular stuff, 'cause I'm a hack. You can see it through my exceedingly popular BW posts, riding upon the massive Blizzard-sponsored Brood War bandwagon!

Joking aside, it's time for the obligatory Jeremy Lin post. Why did I wait until "Linsanity" died down? 'cause I'm lazy. That, and I was actually more interested in the media reaction and coverage of him rather than the man himself, and seeing if and how coverage shifted after his injury and if the storyline created changed took some time.

I will be generalizing the media reaction in this post. Of course, there have been quite a few different people talking about Jeremy Lin - in particular, some great writers who've discussed racism and how important Jeremy Lin is to (many) Asian-Americans, and how he's been breaking the many stereotypes linked with Asian-American men and culture, but here I'm mostly talking about the mainstream - the ESPNs, the NBA.coms. To put it bluntly, the (white) audience, the talking heads, those that were hyping up the "miracle". I should also note that this blog is written from primarily an American perspective, so please keep that in mind, that things here may be different than from your respective countries.

I have a lot of problems with Jeremy Lin being described as a miracle. Don't get me wrong, he's freaking awesome. But the *way* in which he is (or was) being talked about is very problematic, and that's what I want to talk about today.

First of all, from a purely basketball perspective, he's a good player. At times, an excellent player. But he commits a lot of turnovers, can't go left, doesn't have a reliable shot yet, and needs to work on his stamina. Plus he has that weird habit of pulling up and kicking the ball out to the perimeter when he's already in the paint. That's such a weird pass. I didn't expect him to hit 20 points and 10 assists every game, and he didn't have to. I'd be worried if he did, because then he's a larger than life character and that overshadows one important thing - that he's an Asian-American kid who can really ball. That in of itself is important enough, and if it's all about him being some sort of superhero, then what's gonna happen when he regresses to a "merely" above-average PG when he returns from injury?

This isn't a "Rudy" story. Jeremy Lin's story really shouldn't be *that* surprising. (I suppose I should explain who "Rudy" is, for those who haven't seen the movie. Basically, his character is a small college football player who succeeds through sheer determination and at the end of the movie everyone cheers and it's inspirational and awesome and we all realize oh hey the little guy has a chance too) The fact that the media is referring to his rise as amazing/miraculous/totally unexpected is a problem.

Jeremy Lin is no Rudy. He was amazing everywhere he played basketball - he was ripping up the court in high school and still got overlooked by every college but Harvard. In college, he continued to play excellently. Statistically, he would have been one of the better PGs in the draft. Still, he was overlooked. If it wasn't for a lucky break with the Knicks, he would have been gone, through no fault of his own. It's totally different from the Rudy story. Rudy had none of the tools needed for college football. He didn't have the size, he didn't have the talent. He lived the dream despite his limitations.

Lin is 6'3" and 200 pounds. He's always been capable of playing in the NBA. His limitation is different from Rudy's. He was never too small, he was never lacking in talent, and it's not like he never did show his stuff. He did, and people ignored him. Why? For us Asian-Americans, it's pretty freaking obvious, and that makes the mainstream media somewhat amusing, yet sad to watch throughout this, because we know exactly what they are avoiding.

Racism.

He's an Asian-American male. It's pretty simple. There isn't any miracle here - a good basketball player showed that he could actually be a good basketball player. But it's being regarded as a miracle because of the way he looks. He's being treated like some undersized kid in a Disney movie that overcomes all odds. Yes, he overcame odds, but those were the odds of racism, and not limitations of his own making.

It's funny seeing so many "experts" going, "How did the scouts miss him? Is there a flaw in the meritocracy that is the NBA? Maybe it's just a fluke? Who knew?" when it really is just that simple. Racism. People see what they want to see. We have our own prejudices that affect our decisionmaking, and racism is one of them. People didn't think Jeremy Lin could actually play, because he didn't have the look. They saw someone who wasn't big enough, strong enough, poised enough. But that didn't have anything to do with whether or not he actually WAS capable, but rather people's perceptions. And our perceptions have to change.

Someone once said, "the greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist." And that's what's very troubling about modern racism - racists have been very successful at convincing the world that racism no longer exists. When people think of racism nowadays, they think of the KKK, Neo Nazis, Islamic Fundamentalists, Japanese Nationalists. But when we identify such extreme behavior as the only definition of racism, everything else flies under the radar.

In the old racism, it was a world in which white people were just "better". In modern racism, white people are instead "just right". The Goldilocks, if you will. You've got your (Asian) Night Elves, that are smart but weak. You've got your (Black) Orcs, that are strong and stupid. Then you've got the (White) humans. Not too smart, but smart enough to do whatever they have to. Not too strong, but strong enough to do whatever they have to. This, combined with their leadership and determination, make them the "well-balanced" character.

What does this mean, sociologically? It means white people can do anything, but other races are stuck in these artificial categories. Asian-Americans are great workers, engineers, and doctors. But they can't be great athletes, or managers, or CEOs. They just don't have the intangibles. African-Americans are great entertainers, athletes, and soldier grunts. But they can't be great philosophers or commanders. Or at least, don't expect it. There may be exceptions here and there, but only because these special individuals were just so good that they just couldn't be ignored. But otherwise, carry on business as usual.

It's racism, with a "new and improved" label slapped on it, but it's the same BS. It's a great sell to white society that is terrified of being called "racist", but still wants to consider itself "normal", or "default".

Jeremy Lin is viewed as "Lincredible" by the mainstream media for all the wrong reasons. He is indeed, awesome, and he means a lot to Asian Americans. In our culture, Asian men are almost never portrayed as heroes. They're nerds, scientists, background characters, comic relief. If they ever do kick ass, they're martial artists, but they're never going to get the girl. (unless there are ONLY Asians in the movie. If there's a single white hero in the movie, expect him to end up with the girl)

This is the world we Asian-American guys grew up in. Jeremy Lin's no Yao Ming. Yao was so freaking big that even racist scouts couldn't ignore that. But Lin is relatively "normal". He's given us sport-loving Asian-American males a chance to believe that someone that looks like us can make it, that we don't have to be a freak of nature (no offense intended to Yao, of course). Is it that sports trumps other things, that being recognized as a great athlete is objectively better than being recognized as a great engineer? Of course not. But the option itself is a privilege, to see someone that looks like you doing well, and that's a privilege that's probably hard for most white people to understand. Asian-Americans boys could only dream, until Jeremy Lin came along. He's broken stereotypes, and maybe that will expand the definition of "the look" needed to be a baller, that hey, maybe our definition of what a player needs to make it should be changed. Black kids used to laugh when they were told "anyone can be President". Not anymore. And if people were wrong about Asian-Americans being unable to ball, what else are they wrong about? Perhaps we could actually be great politicians? Movie stars? News anchors? Roles that have been traditionally thought of as incredibly unlikely. Essentially, the *possibility* exists, and that itself is liberating. That's why I love Lin's story, and I'll always be a fan even if he never puts up those numbers again.

It's sad when we need a star to prove that we can actually measure up to white people, but in America, that's what it takes. You have to be a *lot* better than the "default" to start to be taken seriously. I remember a Chris Rock sketch in which he observed that baseball didn't start to become equal until you started seeing BAD black baseball players in the major leagues. There's a lot of truth in that. For society to recognize the exceptional minorities isn't all too surprising. They're just too good to ignore, like Yao's height. But for society to start giving the average guy a chance... that's harder.

Some have said the Jeremy Lin bubble has burst. Well, that all depends on your definition of bubble. If you expected him to lay down 30 points every night and would carry the Knicks into the playoffs... then yes, I would expect you to be disappointed. If all people remember from the past few months is some guy who came out of nowhere and then faded, then it'll have been for naught. But if your definition of awesome is that a kid has proved that Asian-Americans can play basketball just as well as whites and blacks and that they've been consistently overlooked because of racism... and that as a society, we ought to learn something from our past prejudice...

then the Jeremy Lin story will truly be "Lincredible".

------

So, to my loyal readers out there... is this description of "racism" fair or not? Is it a valid point, or am I too far off? Is it an issue that we should just shrug off, or try to remedy? I love hearing your thoughts~

------

EDIT 1: Thanks for all the great responses! I'm highlighting this one in particular by [Agony]x90 not simply because he agrees with what I'm saying per se, but because it really helps provide a perspective that makes it easier to understand Asian-American (male) culture from the context of sports and majority perception.

+ Show Spoiler +
Well, I think there are some truths to this. I'm an asian Ivy leaguer recruited for a sport that is not normally considered for "asians", which is shot put. For some insight, on my team, there are a total of 2 full asians on my team, one distance runner and me. We have a number of half asians, but full asians seem to be in short supply. Moving on, in all of the schools that I compete against, I may be (as far as I can remember), the only full asian that is competing in my event. I know for certain that there are no other asians in the ivy league that throws shot, and I think I recall seeing one other full asian who threw a good 15-20 feet below me (or, he throws about 70 percent as far as I do). For more evidence, the Korean shot put record sits at about 63 feet, which is about 3 feet below the Olympic B standard and 12 feet away from the World record. There are a number of college throwers in the past 4 years that can throw upwards to 70 feet. Another example, Koji Murofushi. This man threw hammer in the age of insane hammer throwers and heavy steroid use. The record was set around his time at 86 meters. His best, a little over 70 (~70.80) meters. 30 years later, his son wins the olympic gold in Athens with a throw of 80 meters. A difference on 10 meters from his father. His secret? Well, I'm sure there's a lot of factors, but it doesn't hurt to mention that Koji is half white. Full asians are eaten alive in throwing events (or so it seems).

What does this mean? Maybe I'm just lazy and jealous and can't throw far, but I do believe that asians are less physically capable to throw. But at the same time, its important to note that there are virtually no asians in a lot of American sports, such as football, baseball, basketball (and for me) track. People will always pick out individuals in the past, but that doesn't hide the fact that there have been a total of two Asian Americans in the NBA, one who played in 1947 and another who we are discussing today. This is probably for the same reason that asians just can't keep up physically, but, I also think there is a massive hindrance due to racism.

Mindset plays a huge role and is very much so existent. Back to Jeremy Lin. I was speaking to my teammate, who comes from a well off white family that has roots that possibly go back to the Mayflower. I'm an asian american with immigrant parents. My reason I say I support JLin? He's an asian ivy leaguer that made it in a sport he was "designed" for! Maybe I can be that too! His reason? "Has nothing to do with him being Asian. It's because he went to Harvard. No one makes it to the NBA from Harvard." I do give him credit, as the last time a Harvard kid did make it into the NBA was in the 50s, but I still don't buy it entirely. Why did JLin pick Harvard in the first place? It was because he was overlooked by everyone else that he wanted to play for. Harvard figured they could pick up a player and went for it. I likewise agree that he was good enough to make, even if he fell below the standard every chance he got in the NBA prior to his Knicks game debut.

As an asian american, I may just being experiencing the same "ethno"-egoism as the OP, but I still believe these facts hold true. To support another one of the OPs claims, black students are given the same negative stereotype. I don't need to explain this to any of you, as every single one of you know exactly what I mean. This is abundantly clear in the Ivy League as well, as they are severely lacking in representation and I don't think I would be wrong to say that a disproportionate amount of them are also athletes (the opposite case for asians). The difference is though, there's no such thing as affirmative action for sports.

I will disagree with the OP with one point though, which is that caucasians are not the "solve alls" or "balanced humans". They suffer from the same limitations. Table tennis throughout the world is dominated by the chinese, but is a sport that originated in the west. Swimming is considered an asian man's sport, as their long torsos make them ideal for swimming. To go a bit further, what if teams finally came to the conclusion that Koreans are good at SC not because they practice a lot more than everyone else, but because they have an ethnic, genetic, socioethnic, predisposed irregularity, w/e you wanna call it advantage over everyone else. Not only that, but having come to that decision, that all the American SC2 teams suddenly drop all their non Korean players in favor for Korean only teams. Suddenly, people will say, "why play SC2 if you're not Korean? You'll never make it." Suddenly, no matter what the actual truth is, there is a huge myth that amplifies the false sense that there is nothing you can do unless you are Korean or asian or w/e.

I don't know your guys ethnicities, but perhaps these little stories will act as proof that this kind of racism does indeed exist. I don't find it fair that you guys hack away at the OP and should consider the other possibilities. The nice thing about the extreme racists today (KKK, neonazis, black panthers), is that they don't try to hide what they think. At the very least they are honest about what they think or what they perceive to be the truth, whether or not it is correct. Most people otherwise will try to hide it and their thoughts just so that they don't appear to be racist.

EDIT: while typing this, someone else posted what I discussed with the Ivy league argument. Once again, I still think this is bull, since Jeremy Lin ended up at Harvard because the more prestigious basketball schools didn't as much as give him a second look. Also, a smaller percentage of the asian american population have made it into the NBA than the number of Harvard students into the NBA. Likewise, 1947 is longer than the 1950's. It's just more politically correct to say "Harvard" than "Asian".

EDIT 2: Okay, the guy beneath me just said the same thing the guy two above me said. I don't understand why it makes sense to down play the fact that he is asian, but bring up that he is an Ivy leaguer. Why can't it be both? I make this point, because I believe it is easier to believe one thing than another, not on empirical truth, but on social pressures. In my opinion, the same thing that is going on here is going on in the Trayson shooting discussion. I personally don't know if it was indeed a hate crime, but theres no doubt in my mind that there were elements of prejudice and racism. There are plenty of social injustices towards the black population. I think the reason people try to deny that it was at all racially charged, or that Zimmerman was in no way racist, is because of the repercussions that come with it. All things go both ways. Racial crimes are punished so harshly socially that to be branded a racist tarnishes your reputation forever. Better to be a murderer than a racist murderer. Once again, this has to do with social pressure.


****
AIV_Funnytoss and sGs.Funnytoss on iCCup
Itsmedudeman
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States19229 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-10 06:31:32
April 10 2012 06:28 GMT
#2
Umm, Lin was not always great and a starter worthy basketball player. He did have chances, he was on the Warriors and got some minutes before being traded and also got minutes on the Knicks before moving down to D-league for a short period of time. It's a "miracle" because he literally did come out of nowhere after doing literally nothing in the NBA after an entire year and being placed into D-league. And you give people too little credit. Scouts for basketball/football typically always know what they're doing. You think they overlooked him because of racism? He's bigger than he should be BECAUSE he's Asian, not the other way around here.

It's not about size, or overcoming size. There's a reason why the NBA is 90% black and it has a lot more to do than blacks being taller on average. Hell, I'm a bit upset you said he didn't overcome anything like Rudy. You still need an absurd amount of talent and skill to play basketball at that level if you're 6'3.
Scarecrow
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Korea (South)9172 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-10 06:31:56
April 10 2012 06:29 GMT
#3
Maybe the scouts who missed him were prejudiced. I don't know enough about the draft and college level to comment. In Golden State he just didnt get the opportunity to show what he could do with Curry & Montae taking alot of the minutes. The Rockets who waived him also had great depth at PG with lowry and dragic (both better players). He really had little chance to show what he could do in the league till NY and it was more talent than race based imo.

Besides being an Asian-American, Linsanity was also about the story of being an unsigned player going from the couch to starting for a big market team in a matter of days. It's one of those classic American myths come to life that generated a ton of hype. His numbers over the first 5 or so games were stunning. I think he ranked in the top 5 in pts over first 5 starts alongside Jordan, Shaq etc. Again not about race, just an amazing player coming out of the woodwork and seizing the opportunity given by a slumping NY and PG injuries.

I think Linsanity was as much about race as it was about his numbers, dramatic shots, a Knicks resurgence and the huge NY market. That said, there's still plenty of racism in the West (e.g. espn's "Chink in the Armour" headline that got pulled).
Yhamm is the god of predictions
red4ce
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States7313 Posts
April 10 2012 06:30 GMT
#4
Speaking from a purely basketball point of view, while Jeremy's ethnicity certainly deprived him of many opportunities I don't think it's the only reason he went overlooked. Simply put, he doesn't fit the mold of the traditional NBA point guard. Point guards from Ivy league schools with a weird looking jumpshot and not much speed or jumping ability typically don't get drafted.
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
April 10 2012 06:34 GMT
#5
It's not racism, they didn't overlook him because of his race, they overlooked him because they felt African-Americans can play better.

It's not necessarily ethnocentrism, but it is marking down a stereotype that still remains pertinent in this sport. In addition, he doesn't have much of a track record despite being well-built and statistically above-average.

By the way, you're last paragraphs is ranting on stereotypes, not racism. I think you're being touchy by pure marketing and mainstream's media way of hooking people in.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Itsmedudeman
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States19229 Posts
April 10 2012 06:38 GMT
#6
Let me also just say that his college career WAS NOT GREAT BY ANY MEANS. His stats were DECENT, but realize he's playing in a MUCH worse league than other NBA prospects. Most Ivy League players don't even make it to the NBA, and to think he would be pulling those kinds of numbers that he does now through his college stats? That's textbook hindsight bias right there.
zalz
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Netherlands3704 Posts
April 10 2012 06:40 GMT
#7
This is the most ridiculous and far fetched grasp at crying racism that I have seen in a long time.

The guy was on the team, he was allowed to play, he became a huge star. There were a ton of valid reasons that he was benched for as long as he was, and none had to do with his race.

It doesn't matter, not really. End of the day you will connect the dots back to racism because that is what you want to see. If you can somehow turn this story into one about racism, then I have no doubt you can connect everything back to racism.
ArvickHero
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
10387 Posts
April 10 2012 06:53 GMT
#8
On April 10 2012 15:34 Torte de Lini wrote:
It's not racism, they didn't overlook him because of his race, they overlooked him because they felt African-Americans can play better.

lol ... are you serious?
Writerptrk
Zidane
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States1686 Posts
April 10 2012 06:57 GMT
#9
He was a mix of being overrated and overperforming, and it showed towards the end before his injury. I watched all games the played with the warriors and he STILL is overrated.

I'd would rank him slightly below average in the NBA starting PG area.

Definitely was not racism.
Deleted User 183001
Profile Joined May 2011
2939 Posts
April 10 2012 06:57 GMT
#10
Angry asian kid claiming that the NBA is pretty much the world's most racist organization and hates asians.

What did I just read lol?
Gummy
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States2180 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-10 07:00:52
April 10 2012 06:59 GMT
#11
On April 10 2012 15:30 red4ce wrote:
Speaking from a purely basketball point of view, while Jeremy's ethnicity certainly deprived him of many opportunities I don't think it's the only reason he went overlooked. Simply put, he doesn't fit the mold of the traditional NBA point guard. Point guards from Ivy league schools with a weird looking jumpshot and not much speed or jumping ability typically don't get drafted.

The thing is that he matches up quite favorably in terms of basic stats of speed/jump with some of the top picks for his year. His first step (initial acceleration) outpaces even the first pick John Wall.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ There are three kinds of people in the world: those who can count and those who can't.
Funnytoss
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Taiwan1471 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-10 07:14:07
April 10 2012 07:05 GMT
#12
Thanks for commenting guys, I appreciate it.

In hindsight, I suppose my point wasn't really clear. It was more that the *media coverage* of him seemed a bit off. (of course, I'd be lying if I had expected him to do as well as he actually did) People were surprised not because he played amazingly well - while a good player, he isn't *that* good. They were surprised because he went WAY beyond their expectations, what with the numbers he put up in the first five starts and all that. That's all cool and definitely not something you can minimize. I'm focusing more upon expectations, and why they are the way they are.

It would be unreasonable to say "I totally saw this coming" regarding how well he actually played. That's fine. I'm saying though, that the fact that he went totally undrafted, meaning most people thought he was completely unworthy of playing in the NBA, came primarily, though not entirely, due to his race.

@Torte de Lini: "because they felt African-Americans can play better". Isn't that the definition of overlooking him because of his race? Stereotypes are linked with racism. Stereotypes pigeonhole people into pre-defined roles, and that's part of what I'm arguing - that this is actually a form of racism in that we're judging someone largely upon their ethnicity, and not their actual ability (unless they're just too good to ignore).

@JudicatorHammurabi: I don't think that's a fair interpretation of what I wrote. It's not really a bash against the NBA, but rather our society and how that shapes expectations for people based upon stereotypes, rather than actual ability. Does it happen everywhere? Sure, but most obviously in realms such as sports, which is why I chose this example.
AIV_Funnytoss and sGs.Funnytoss on iCCup
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
April 10 2012 07:06 GMT
#13
On April 10 2012 16:05 Funnytoss wrote:
Thanks for commenting guys, I appreciate it.

In hindsight, I suppose my point wasn't really clear. It was more that the *media coverage* of him seemed a bit off. (of course, I'd be lying if I had expected him to do as well as he actually did) People were surprised not because he played amazingly well - while a good player, he isn't *that* good. They were surprised because he went WAY beyond their expectations, what with the numbers he put up in the first five starts and all that. That's all cool and definitely not something you can minimize. I'm focusing more upon expectations, and why they are the way they are.

It would be unreasonable to say "I totally saw this coming" regarding how well he actually played. That's fine. I'm saying though, that the fact that he went totally undrafted, meaning most people thought he was completely unworthy of playing in the NBA, came primarily, though not entirely, due to his race.

@Torte de Lini: "because they felt African-Americans can play better". Isn't that the definition of overlooking him because of his race? Stereotypes are linked with racism. Stereotypes pigeonhole people into pre-defined roles, and that's part of what I'm arguing - that this is actually a form of racism in that we're judging someone largely upon their ethnicity, and not their actual ability (unless they're just too good to ignore).


It's ethnic majority + track record.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Funnytoss
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Taiwan1471 Posts
April 10 2012 07:10 GMT
#14
On April 10 2012 16:06 Torte de Lini wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 10 2012 16:05 Funnytoss wrote:
Thanks for commenting guys, I appreciate it.

In hindsight, I suppose my point wasn't really clear. It was more that the *media coverage* of him seemed a bit off. (of course, I'd be lying if I had expected him to do as well as he actually did) People were surprised not because he played amazingly well - while a good player, he isn't *that* good. They were surprised because he went WAY beyond their expectations, what with the numbers he put up in the first five starts and all that. That's all cool and definitely not something you can minimize. I'm focusing more upon expectations, and why they are the way they are.

It would be unreasonable to say "I totally saw this coming" regarding how well he actually played. That's fine. I'm saying though, that the fact that he went totally undrafted, meaning most people thought he was completely unworthy of playing in the NBA, came primarily, though not entirely, due to his race.

@Torte de Lini: "because they felt African-Americans can play better". Isn't that the definition of overlooking him because of his race? Stereotypes are linked with racism. Stereotypes pigeonhole people into pre-defined roles, and that's part of what I'm arguing - that this is actually a form of racism in that we're judging someone largely upon their ethnicity, and not their actual ability (unless they're just too good to ignore).


It's ethnic majority + track record.


And I'm arguing that *this* is the significance of Jeremy Lin to a lot of Asian-Americans, that he may challenge people's perceptions of the ethnicity, and that opens up possibilities for people. Not that you're necessarily going to suddenly see more Asians in the NBA, because statistically, I'm totally aware that whites and blacks tend to be more physically suited for the game. But that we should be making decisions based on stereotypes... less often than we do.
AIV_Funnytoss and sGs.Funnytoss on iCCup
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
April 10 2012 07:12 GMT
#15
On April 10 2012 16:10 Funnytoss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 10 2012 16:06 Torte de Lini wrote:
On April 10 2012 16:05 Funnytoss wrote:
Thanks for commenting guys, I appreciate it.

In hindsight, I suppose my point wasn't really clear. It was more that the *media coverage* of him seemed a bit off. (of course, I'd be lying if I had expected him to do as well as he actually did) People were surprised not because he played amazingly well - while a good player, he isn't *that* good. They were surprised because he went WAY beyond their expectations, what with the numbers he put up in the first five starts and all that. That's all cool and definitely not something you can minimize. I'm focusing more upon expectations, and why they are the way they are.

It would be unreasonable to say "I totally saw this coming" regarding how well he actually played. That's fine. I'm saying though, that the fact that he went totally undrafted, meaning most people thought he was completely unworthy of playing in the NBA, came primarily, though not entirely, due to his race.

@Torte de Lini: "because they felt African-Americans can play better". Isn't that the definition of overlooking him because of his race? Stereotypes are linked with racism. Stereotypes pigeonhole people into pre-defined roles, and that's part of what I'm arguing - that this is actually a form of racism in that we're judging someone largely upon their ethnicity, and not their actual ability (unless they're just too good to ignore).


It's ethnic majority + track record.


And I'm arguing that *this* is the significance of Jeremy Lin to a lot of Asian-Americans, that he may challenge people's perceptions of the ethnicity, and that opens up possibilities for people. Not that you're necessarily going to suddenly see more Asians in the NBA, because statistically, I'm totally aware that whites and blacks tend to be more physically suited for the game. But that we should be making decisions based on stereotypes... less often than we do.


You won't see me fighting you here.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Itsmedudeman
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States19229 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-10 07:22:01
April 10 2012 07:21 GMT
#16
"The NBA had not drafted an Ivy League player since Jerome Allen of Penn in the second round in 1995. The last Ivy League player to play in the NBA was Yale's Chris Dudley in 2003, while the last Harvard player was Ed Smith in 1954."

I'd say it has more to do with the league he played in over his race. The fact that he wasn't even Ivy league player of the year and got in says a lot.
Gak2
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada418 Posts
April 10 2012 07:21 GMT
#17
actually, in Fast Five the asian guy gets the really hot girl.
Gummy
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States2180 Posts
April 10 2012 07:23 GMT
#18
On April 10 2012 16:21 Gak2 wrote:
actually, in Fast Five the asian guy gets the really hot girl.

Tru dat. Omg she was so attractive.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ There are three kinds of people in the world: those who can count and those who can't.
[Agony]x90
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States853 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-10 08:08:54
April 10 2012 07:53 GMT
#19
Well, I think there are some truths to this. I'm an asian Ivy leaguer recruited for a sport that is not normally considered for "asians", which is shot put. For some insight, on my team, there are a total of 2 full asians on my team, one distance runner and me. We have a number of half asians, but full asians seem to be in short supply. Moving on, in all of the schools that I compete against, I may be (as far as I can remember), the only full asian that is competing in my event. I know for certain that there are no other asians in the ivy league that throws shot, and I think I recall seeing one other full asian who threw a good 15-20 feet below me (or, he throws about 70 percent as far as I do). For more evidence, the Korean shot put record sits at about 63 feet, which is about 3 feet below the Olympic B standard and 12 feet away from the World record. There are a number of college throwers in the past 4 years that can throw upwards to 70 feet. Another example, Koji Murofushi. This man threw hammer in the age of insane hammer throwers and heavy steroid use. The record was set around his time at 86 meters. His best, a little over 70 (~70.80) meters. 30 years later, his son wins the olympic gold in Athens with a throw of 80 meters. A difference on 10 meters from his father. His secret? Well, I'm sure there's a lot of factors, but it doesn't hurt to mention that Koji is half white. Full asians are eaten alive in throwing events (or so it seems).

What does this mean? Maybe I'm just lazy and jealous and can't throw far, but I do believe that asians are less physically capable to throw. But at the same time, its important to note that there are virtually no asians in a lot of American sports, such as football, baseball, basketball (and for me) track. People will always pick out individuals in the past, but that doesn't hide the fact that there have been a total of two Asian Americans in the NBA, one who played in 1947 and another who we are discussing today. This is probably for the same reason that asians just can't keep up physically, but, I also think there is a massive hindrance due to racism.

Mindset plays a huge role and is very much so existent. Back to Jeremy Lin. I was speaking to my teammate, who comes from a well off white family that has roots that possibly go back to the Mayflower. I'm an asian american with immigrant parents. My reason I say I support JLin? He's an asian ivy leaguer that made it in a sport he was "designed" for! Maybe I can be that too! His reason? "Has nothing to do with him being Asian. It's because he went to Harvard. No one makes it to the NBA from Harvard." I do give him credit, as the last time a Harvard kid did make it into the NBA was in the 50s, but I still don't buy it entirely. Why did JLin pick Harvard in the first place? It was because he was overlooked by everyone else that he wanted to play for. Harvard figured they could pick up a player and went for it. I likewise agree that he was good enough to make, even if he fell below the standard every chance he got in the NBA prior to his Knicks game debut.

As an asian american, I may just being experiencing the same "ethno"-egoism as the OP, but I still believe these facts hold true. To support another one of the OPs claims, black students are given the same negative stereotype. I don't need to explain this to any of you, as every single one of you know exactly what I mean. This is abundantly clear in the Ivy League as well, as they are severely lacking in representation and I don't think I would be wrong to say that a disproportionate amount of them are also athletes (the opposite case for asians). The difference is though, there's no such thing as affirmative action for sports.

I will disagree with the OP with one point though, which is that caucasians are not the "solve alls" or "balanced humans". They suffer from the same limitations. Table tennis throughout the world is dominated by the chinese, but is a sport that originated in the west. Swimming is considered an asian man's sport, as their long torsos make them ideal for swimming. To go a bit further, what if teams finally came to the conclusion that Koreans are good at SC not because they practice a lot more than everyone else, but because they have an ethnic, genetic, socioethnic, predisposed irregularity, w/e you wanna call it advantage over everyone else. Not only that, but having come to that decision, that all the American SC2 teams suddenly drop all their non Korean players in favor for Korean only teams. Suddenly, people will say, "why play SC2 if you're not Korean? You'll never make it." Suddenly, no matter what the actual truth is, there is a huge myth that amplifies the false sense that there is nothing you can do unless you are Korean or asian or w/e.

I don't know your guys ethnicities, but perhaps these little stories will act as proof that this kind of racism does indeed exist. I don't find it fair that you guys hack away at the OP and should consider the other possibilities. The nice thing about the extreme racists today (KKK, neonazis, black panthers), is that they don't try to hide what they think. At the very least they are honest about what they think or what they perceive to be the truth, whether or not it is correct. Most people otherwise will try to hide it and their thoughts just so that they don't appear to be racist.

EDIT: while typing this, someone else posted what I discussed with the Ivy league argument. Once again, I still think this is bull, since Jeremy Lin ended up at Harvard because the more prestigious basketball schools didn't as much as give him a second look. Also, a smaller percentage of the asian american population have made it into the NBA than the number of Harvard students into the NBA. Likewise, 1947 is longer than the 1950's. It's just more politically correct to say "Harvard" than "Asian".

EDIT 2: Okay, the guy beneath me just said the same thing the guy two above me said. I don't understand why it makes sense to down play the fact that he is asian, but bring up that he is an Ivy leaguer. Why can't it be both? I make this point, because I believe it is easier to believe one thing than another, not on empirical truth, but on social pressures. In my opinion, the same thing that is going on here is going on in the Trayson shooting discussion. I personally don't know if it was indeed a hate crime, but theres no doubt in my mind that there were elements of prejudice and racism. There are plenty of social injustices towards the black population. I think the reason people try to deny that it was at all racially charged, or that Zimmerman was in no way racist, is because of the repercussions that come with it. All things go both ways. Racial crimes are punished so harshly socially that to be branded a racist tarnishes your reputation forever. Better to be a murderer than a racist murderer. Once again, this has to do with social pressure.
JF dodger since 2009
feanor1
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States1899 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-10 08:05:33
April 10 2012 07:59 GMT
#20
On April 10 2012 16:10 Funnytoss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 10 2012 16:06 Torte de Lini wrote:
On April 10 2012 16:05 Funnytoss wrote:
Thanks for commenting guys, I appreciate it.

In hindsight, I suppose my point wasn't really clear. It was more that the *media coverage* of him seemed a bit off. (of course, I'd be lying if I had expected him to do as well as he actually did) People were surprised not because he played amazingly well - while a good player, he isn't *that* good. They were surprised because he went WAY beyond their expectations, what with the numbers he put up in the first five starts and all that. That's all cool and definitely not something you can minimize. I'm focusing more upon expectations, and why they are the way they are.

It would be unreasonable to say "I totally saw this coming" regarding how well he actually played. That's fine. I'm saying though, that the fact that he went totally undrafted, meaning most people thought he was completely unworthy of playing in the NBA, came primarily, though not entirely, due to his race.

@Torte de Lini: "because they felt African-Americans can play better". Isn't that the definition of overlooking him because of his race? Stereotypes are linked with racism. Stereotypes pigeonhole people into pre-defined roles, and that's part of what I'm arguing - that this is actually a form of racism in that we're judging someone largely upon their ethnicity, and not their actual ability (unless they're just too good to ignore).


It's ethnic majority + track record.


And I'm arguing that *this* is the significance of Jeremy Lin to a lot of Asian-Americans, that he may challenge people's perceptions of the ethnicity, and that opens up possibilities for people. Not that you're necessarily going to suddenly see more Asians in the NBA, because statistically, I'm totally aware that whites and blacks tend to be more physically suited for the game. But that we should be making decisions based on stereotypes... less often than we do.

I think Jeremy Lin may give some asian kids some motivation and inspiration that they can be the next Jeremy Lin. I do not agree that all 30 NBA teams and 300+ D1 programs have racist scouts and coach's to the point that they would ignore him. The odds of making the NBA out of the Ivy league are so small, and it is very tough to judge a player coming out as being able to make it to the next level. The jump in the overal athleticism of the players from the Ivy to the NBA is incredible.
In his senior year (2009–10), Lin averaged 16.4 points, 4.4 rebounds, 4.5 assists, 2.4 steals and 1.1 blocks
, those are good stats. Those are not can't miss next level talent stats.
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