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Starcraft 2 came out nearly two years ago. Two years ago tournaments for $500 were the norm and anything more was just gravy. The community was close knit and growing fast, people from all walks of life were taking up Starcraft 2 as their game. When you played somebody there was friendly banter back and forth and by the end of the game you felt challenged but you had fun. Somewhere along the line that changed, the prize value in tournaments went up, the level of corporate investment went way, way up and even the average player changed. The current player of Starcraft 2 takes the game very seriously and it's not uncommon for somebody to rage at you after a game instead of simply gg'ing and leaving.
I'm personally extremely disappointed in the way the Starcraft 2 community is started to act. The reason Starcraft 2 is so successful as an esport is a combination of things, one of which being how much fun the game is to watch and how important quality casters are to the experience but even way above and beyond that the game grew fast because of the community. Spearheaded by guys like Day9 the Starcraft 2 community took on his personality and just wanted the game to grow. They loved watching people succeed more than anything and the amount of support the players and fans of the game showed some people was amazing.
Things change. The Starcraft 2 community is no longer about watching other people succeed but it's started to fill with jealousy for those that do succeed and there is no greater example of that than the absolute witch hunt of Orb. Orb's stream was entertaining to watch, he'd rage and swear (although I'm not a fan of that) but you knew what you were getting into when you watched him stream. Orb worked hard, he started casting small tournaments and then eventually got his shot at the big time with EG.
What Orb did and said in his ladder games is inexcusable, you simply don't use the words he did. However I don't think it was about that, he didn't even get a chance to "keep clean" on his own stream, people hunted down old, old examples of him saying stuff he should not have said. They found three examples in nearly two years of streaming and saved replays. The people that spent hours looking for examples of a human being making a mistake were doing it only to watch somebody else lose something they worked so hard for, not because they were deeply offended by it. If people were truly offended by what he said they would have simply stated the facts and then not watched him stream for EG, but they went way too far. Mailing EG's sponsers and hurting the brand for nothing more than old ladder games is insane. People are calling him out for being bad for the community and bad for the image of Starcraft 2 but the fact is the examples of Orb doing that were extremely hard to find and not common at all. There's far bigger members of the community that on first exposure are horrible for the image of Starcraft 2.
Lets use a couple of examples from early in the games release now to contrast how things and the community has changed as it's grown. If I was just getting into starcraft 2 and looking for Starcraft stuff if I google "day9 commentary highlights" the first thing I get is CombatEx vs. Chill commentated by the one and only Day9. While Day9 isn't dropping Nbombs in the video it's safe to say that the video is not something you want to show your mom. Day9 talks about all kinds of weird stuff highlighted by bear semen and buttfucking, not exactly the best first impression somebody can get of the nicest guy in our community. Does anybody try to get Day9 to step down and stop him from going to events? Hell no because he established himself a long time ago and has given back a ton to the community. He's also already successful and extremely popular meaning a Day9 witchhunt wouldn't succeed and people would just get exiled from the community for even thinking about it.
The second example is Destiny. If you come on to TL.net for the first time and look for user streams chances are the one with the most viewers is Destiny. I used to watch his stream but I stopped, and I stopped because of the way he spoke to others. I'm not a Destiny fan at all and he does things that make Orb look like an Angel. Nobody is calling for Destiny's team to drop him and nobody wants him to fail at supporting his kid. He's a sympathetic figure but man does he say some vulgar things. Imagine coming from a game like LoL (which has a reputation for a poor community) and hearing Destiny's stream for your first exposure. The amount of damage to the reputation of Starcraft 2 from somebody who sees these things before they watch iNcontrol, Artosis and Day9 could be insane.
Orb's done. He's finished in Esports. He's finished because people for whatever reason want him to fail, but what they fail to realize and see is that Orbs just like any of us. His dream is to work in Esports and cast Starcraft 2 and that's been taken away from him even after all his work at his craft to earn a shot. He needs to take responsibility and never say the stuff he did before again, and I think he's realized how big of a mistake those things were but it took an unbelievable amount of effort in one of the worst witch hunts I've ever seen to uncover very few examples of his actions, and examples from literally a year ago.
When you have some taken away from you because of mistakes that you made in the past it hurts, and it hurts a lot. It can make you a bitter person sometimes and make you want to watch others fail when you see them start to succeed. I think we've all been there, whether it's seeing an exgirlfriend marry her dream guy when the only reason you broke up is because of a mistake you made a month into a 3 year relationship or if it's a place of work where you got held off a promotion because of how you were when you first joined the company, not because of your current merits. It hurts, it hurts a lot and while you know it's your fault it doesn't feel fair.
I really want to believe that the Starcraft 2 community is something special, and I personally think we need rethink why we wanted Orb fired. I will be mailing the EG sponsors about the events that took place and letting them know my thoughts and that they should show support of EG and of Orb. I will also be mailing EG about the incident and I think they should give Orb another shot to live out his dream, and hopefully provide us some enjoyment too.
I encourage everybody who reads this, even the people that originally sent messages to EG sponsors, to strongly rethink why they did and what they think of the overall Starcraft community. The thing is Orb is an excellent commentator with a very solid amount of game knowledge and could be a future asset to get people into the game. Send your messages to EG and their sponsors to give Orb another shot, I think he deserves it.
Here's the bottom line. This ones for everybody who has ever worked for something only to have it taken away through no fault of their own, or through something from their past that they're not proud of. We have a chance to change somebodies fate who is as of right now in the same shoes we were once in at some point in your life. Imagine if you got that second chance with a girl, or another shot at the promotion at work how hard you would work to keep what you thought was lost, then translate it over to Orb and give him that opportunity. This is a community of second chances, this is a community of boosting people up and not trying to tear them down. At least I hope it is.
Please read the entire post before responding, and please keep it extremely civil. Even if we can't make a difference at least show that the community can be civil and is as great as it once was, show that we want success not trying to force others to fail.
 
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The bigger a community gets, the worse things it drags out of people. Combination of filth coming in and the less filthy becoming desensitized to filth and unknowingly incorporating it into their own attitude.
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People are so hungry for Drama, look at the whole Naniwa thing. It's sad that Orb was pretty much Ruined by this experience but these things are going to continue to happen.
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I was honestly pretty shocked at the community over this whole thing. And imo EG just had to wait a little bit for this to blow over and it would have been fine. I think this was completely ridiculous.
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i do love what that you care about the community but i must disagree with your post. the hatred of orb came out of many things but i do not think jealousy was one of them. people have a chance to call someone out. im not wuite sure what you expect from the commuity my friend? for us to grow and be a group of saints at the same time? impossible, the larger the community the more trolls, fact. in regards to destiny he has been bounced around from team to team for a while, he has had people backlash at him, but the thing is people still watch him and he is still marketable. orb was not marketable after the discovery of his comments. our commuity is growing as good as it can i believe.
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Firstly, it's debatable whether Orb was an excellent commentator.
Secondly, the Starcraft community should be praised for its actions in this matter. I fail to see how the community did anything wrong. The only person at fault is Orb.
Thirdly, here's a scenario. Imagine that a country just impeached its president. Why don't we give him a second chance immediately and elect him into office again? Because we don't think he should be in that office. That's why we impeached him in the first place.
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On March 10 2012 08:12 TwoToneTerran wrote:
The bigger a community gets, the worse things it drags out of people. Combination of filth coming in and the less filthy becoming desensitized to filth and unknowingly incorporating it into their own attitude.
I think its more like the bigger a community gets, the less homogenous it becomes which leads to a bigger chance that there will be some very vocal minority of people who get extremely butthurt over X matter.
Haters gonna hate.
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I don't personally like orbs behavior or his casting but I think what the community has done is just sickening. mob justice left EG no choice but to drop orb before he even had a shot to prove himself as a professional caster. I would comment on idra but angry mobs don't harass EG's sponsors over Idra.
I feel that a lot of this outrage was manufactured, the original posts on reddit bringing up orbs behavior were clearly made with malicious intent towards orb and the incident had happened months before. It's no coincidence that the OP posted that right after orb was hired onto EG as a full time caster. Its shameful for people to get all bent up and allow themselves to be manipulated like this. It seems to only take a few angry people to start a reddit mob and It saddens me that /r/starcrafts rules against public shaming and witchunting never feel enforced in any meaningful way.
This communities love of public shaming volunteers and burning sponsors is too much sometimes. People organize awesome tournaments and all we give are complaints. We only seem to contact sponsors out of anger, what happened to thanking pepsi for GSL? We need more stuff like that. The community needs to stop being so vile towards sponsors and volunteers if it wants to see long term success.
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On March 10 2012 08:48 Gecko wrote:
I don't personally like orbs behavior or his casting but I think what the community has done is just sickening. mob justice left EG no choice but to drop orb before he even had a shot to prove himself as a professional caster. I would comment on idra but angry mobs don't harass EG's sponsors over Idra.
I feel that a lot of this outrage was manufactured, the original posts on reddit bringing up orbs behavior were clearly made with malicious intent towards orb and the incident had happened months before. It's no coincidence that the OP posted that right after orb was hired onto EG as a full time caster. Its shameful for people to get all bent up and allow themselves to be manipulated like this. It seems to only take a few angry people to start a reddit mob and It saddens me that /r/starcrafts rules against public shaming and witchunting never feel enforced in any meaningful way.
This communities love of public shaming volunteers and burning sponsors is too much sometimes. People organize awesome tournaments and all we give are complaints. We only seem to contact sponsors out of anger, what happened to thanking pepsi for GSL? We need more stuff like that. The community needs to stop being so vile towards sponsors and volunteers if it wants to see long term success.
He used such a denigrating term that it truly was terrible. Where's the respect and decency?
Also, orb clearly knew he had done what he did (as suggested by the posters on reddit) but chose to purposely hide this, continue to deny it, and even insulted Totalbiscuit for believing that orb actually did use such an offensive term (which orb in the end did).
Respect. Integrity. Accountability. I don't know, they teach this stuff in elementary.
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I dont know what he exactly did in his stream and i dont care about him at all (didnt knew that he has a featured stream at all)
But I am curious that why people cared so much and did things to get him fired from eg? You can just close the stream and watch something else, it is not like that you are forced to watch him
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If WC3 is any indication SC2 will die off in a few years and we'll be left with Korea + a few random tournaments + a few weekly european cups. Then we can go back to not caring about being "professional" and worrying about the "growth of esports."
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On March 10 2012 08:43 Enervate wrote:
Firstly, it's debatable whether Orb was an excellent commentator.
Secondly, the Starcraft community should be praised for its actions in this matter. I fail to see how the community did anything wrong. The only person at fault is Orb.
Thirdly, here's a scenario. Imagine that a country just impeached its president. Why don't we give him a second chance immediately and elect him into office again? Because we don't think he should be in that office. That's why we impeached him in the first place.
yup. if we want esports to grow and became viable, such actions must have consequences. Any soccer coach making a similiar comment would be fired and never hired again as well.
You can't give that stuff a free pass.
The best example is Team Liquid. It's probably one of the best eSports related site on the planet. Why? Because of harsh ban policy. No second chances.
This is how it works and I am glad that it works this way.
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On March 10 2012 09:07 Jayjay54 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 08:43 Enervate wrote:
Firstly, it's debatable whether Orb was an excellent commentator.
Secondly, the Starcraft community should be praised for its actions in this matter. I fail to see how the community did anything wrong. The only person at fault is Orb.
Thirdly, here's a scenario. Imagine that a country just impeached its president. Why don't we give him a second chance immediately and elect him into office again? Because we don't think he should be in that office. That's why we impeached him in the first place. yup. if we want esports to grow and became viable, such actions must have consequences. Any soccer coach making a similiar comment would be fired and never hired again as well. You can't give that stuff a free pass. The best example is Team Liquid. It's probably one of the best eSports related site on the planet. Why? Because of harsh ban policy. No second chances. This is how it works and I am glad that it works this way.
People don't get banned on TL for posts from 3 months ago after they achieve success in the community.
I challenge you to name one positive thing that has come from the Orb incident. People have been ripping on people over and over for things they do and it's doing a lot more damage than good. This whole incident has nothing but make the community look like a mindless mob out for blood, damage the EG name and hurt the sponsors image and brands.
EG was forced into releasing Orb by the mob mentality, and yeah what he said was bad. Yes trying to hide it was bad but still is he really going to come out and say after the first incident that it may have happened in a couple of ladder matches before? The fact that people ran through hours of video looking for proof and checked all their replays is insane.
If your workplace could look through everything you've ever said or done and if they found 2 or 3 questionable things there would be a mob looking for your blood how many of us would actually have a job?
It saddens me that somebody has to deal with this on such a huge scale. It's okay for popular people but it's not okay for Orb to try and get past what happened? Lets go through all the streamers and check for nbombs, racial remarks, sexist jokes and anti-gay slurs get rid of them all, get their blood! It doesn't matter if Artosis said something at a tournament in 2006 he should be fired from GOM for it!
It's stupid and childish and does nothing but hurt the community, game and Esports to go for blood like this. In the thousands of games he played, in the hundreds of hours of streaming we found three incidents. I hope people hold themselves accountable to that high of a standard.
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On March 10 2012 09:22 Filter wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 09:07 Jayjay54 wrote:On March 10 2012 08:43 Enervate wrote:
Firstly, it's debatable whether Orb was an excellent commentator.
Secondly, the Starcraft community should be praised for its actions in this matter. I fail to see how the community did anything wrong. The only person at fault is Orb.
Thirdly, here's a scenario. Imagine that a country just impeached its president. Why don't we give him a second chance immediately and elect him into office again? Because we don't think he should be in that office. That's why we impeached him in the first place. yup. if we want esports to grow and became viable, such actions must have consequences. Any soccer coach making a similiar comment would be fired and never hired again as well. You can't give that stuff a free pass. The best example is Team Liquid. It's probably one of the best eSports related site on the planet. Why? Because of harsh ban policy. No second chances. This is how it works and I am glad that it works this way. People don't get banned on TL for posts from 3 months ago after they achieve success in the community. I challenge you to name one positive thing that has come from the Orb incident. People have been ripping on people over and over for things they do and it's doing a lot more damage than good. This whole incident has nothing but make the community look like a mindless mob out for blood, damage the EG name and hurt the sponsors image and brands. EG was forced into releasing Orb by the mob mentality, and yeah what he said was bad. Yes trying to hide it was bad but still is he really going to come out and say after the first incident that it may have happened in a couple of ladder matches before? The fact that people ran through hours of video looking for proof and checked all their replays is insane. If your workplace could look through everything you've ever said or done and if they found 2 or 3 questionable things there would be a mob looking for your blood how many of us would actually have a job? It saddens me that somebody has to deal with this on such a huge scale. It's okay for popular people but it's not okay for Orb to try and get past what happened? Lets go through all the streamers and check for nbombs, racial remarks, sexist jokes and anti-gay slurs get rid of them all, get their blood! It doesn't matter if Artosis said something at a tournament in 2006 he should be fired from GOM for it! It's stupid and childish and does nothing but hurt the community, game and Esports to go for blood like this. In the thousands of games he played, in the hundreds of hours of streaming we found three incidents. I hope people hold themselves accountable to that high of a standard.
If you dared to say the N-word at work in front of your company's clients, you'll be fired. If you think otherwise, give it a shot.
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intrigue
Washington, D.C9934 Posts
On March 10 2012 09:07 Jayjay54 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 08:43 Enervate wrote:
Firstly, it's debatable whether Orb was an excellent commentator.
Secondly, the Starcraft community should be praised for its actions in this matter. I fail to see how the community did anything wrong. The only person at fault is Orb.
Thirdly, here's a scenario. Imagine that a country just impeached its president. Why don't we give him a second chance immediately and elect him into office again? Because we don't think he should be in that office. That's why we impeached him in the first place. yup. if we want esports to grow and became viable, such actions must have consequences. Any soccer coach making a similiar comment would be fired and never hired again as well. You can't give that stuff a free pass. The best example is Team Liquid. It's probably one of the best eSports related site on the planet. Why? Because of harsh ban policy. No second chances. This is how it works and I am glad that it works this way.
this characterization of TL moderation is completely wrong. we give many chances, unless the offense is just too bad. the overwhelming majority of users progress through warnings, then string of tempbans/warnings, then get permed. even then it's not an ip ban; people return all the time on new accounts to try to start anew.
quick, rash action like immediately writing sponsors disgusts me. yeah, the kid can be fucking dumb but he's not some horrid human being who deserves to have his career switch flipped off. suspend him, ridicule him, make him look dumb and yell for justice like every other public figure on reddit. but it's almost.. unfair to go straight to sponsors. disappointed in everybody involved.
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I don't understand how people feel it was pure mob rule that got orb fired. The man clearly shot himself in the foot multiple times by denying denying denying, and insulting TB over the 'slander'... I mean, I forgive orb, but you people seem to conveniently ignore some facts. EGs CEO even explained how it was the combination of both the n-word and the extreme denial.
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On March 10 2012 09:32 xXFireandIceXx wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 09:22 Filter wrote:On March 10 2012 09:07 Jayjay54 wrote:On March 10 2012 08:43 Enervate wrote:
Firstly, it's debatable whether Orb was an excellent commentator.
Secondly, the Starcraft community should be praised for its actions in this matter. I fail to see how the community did anything wrong. The only person at fault is Orb.
Thirdly, here's a scenario. Imagine that a country just impeached its president. Why don't we give him a second chance immediately and elect him into office again? Because we don't think he should be in that office. That's why we impeached him in the first place. yup. if we want esports to grow and became viable, such actions must have consequences. Any soccer coach making a similiar comment would be fired and never hired again as well. You can't give that stuff a free pass. The best example is Team Liquid. It's probably one of the best eSports related site on the planet. Why? Because of harsh ban policy. No second chances. This is how it works and I am glad that it works this way. People don't get banned on TL for posts from 3 months ago after they achieve success in the community. I challenge you to name one positive thing that has come from the Orb incident. People have been ripping on people over and over for things they do and it's doing a lot more damage than good. This whole incident has nothing but make the community look like a mindless mob out for blood, damage the EG name and hurt the sponsors image and brands. EG was forced into releasing Orb by the mob mentality, and yeah what he said was bad. Yes trying to hide it was bad but still is he really going to come out and say after the first incident that it may have happened in a couple of ladder matches before? The fact that people ran through hours of video looking for proof and checked all their replays is insane. If your workplace could look through everything you've ever said or done and if they found 2 or 3 questionable things there would be a mob looking for your blood how many of us would actually have a job? It saddens me that somebody has to deal with this on such a huge scale. It's okay for popular people but it's not okay for Orb to try and get past what happened? Lets go through all the streamers and check for nbombs, racial remarks, sexist jokes and anti-gay slurs get rid of them all, get their blood! It doesn't matter if Artosis said something at a tournament in 2006 he should be fired from GOM for it! It's stupid and childish and does nothing but hurt the community, game and Esports to go for blood like this. In the thousands of games he played, in the hundreds of hours of streaming we found three incidents. I hope people hold themselves accountable to that high of a standard. If you dared to say the N-word at work in front of your company's clients, you'll be fired. If you think otherwise, give it a shot.
Orb wasn't 'at work', so that's a pretty poor analogy.
I don't think this is specific to the SC2 community: it seems all gaming communities love petty bullshit and drama. SC2 is becoming more 'mainstream' in that the same population is part of its community as the others, and so we end up in the same old place - except with more self-righteousness because ESPORTS.
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On March 10 2012 10:05 Dfgj wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 09:32 xXFireandIceXx wrote:On March 10 2012 09:22 Filter wrote:On March 10 2012 09:07 Jayjay54 wrote:On March 10 2012 08:43 Enervate wrote:
Firstly, it's debatable whether Orb was an excellent commentator.
Secondly, the Starcraft community should be praised for its actions in this matter. I fail to see how the community did anything wrong. The only person at fault is Orb.
Thirdly, here's a scenario. Imagine that a country just impeached its president. Why don't we give him a second chance immediately and elect him into office again? Because we don't think he should be in that office. That's why we impeached him in the first place. yup. if we want esports to grow and became viable, such actions must have consequences. Any soccer coach making a similiar comment would be fired and never hired again as well. You can't give that stuff a free pass. The best example is Team Liquid. It's probably one of the best eSports related site on the planet. Why? Because of harsh ban policy. No second chances. This is how it works and I am glad that it works this way. People don't get banned on TL for posts from 3 months ago after they achieve success in the community. I challenge you to name one positive thing that has come from the Orb incident. People have been ripping on people over and over for things they do and it's doing a lot more damage than good. This whole incident has nothing but make the community look like a mindless mob out for blood, damage the EG name and hurt the sponsors image and brands. EG was forced into releasing Orb by the mob mentality, and yeah what he said was bad. Yes trying to hide it was bad but still is he really going to come out and say after the first incident that it may have happened in a couple of ladder matches before? The fact that people ran through hours of video looking for proof and checked all their replays is insane. If your workplace could look through everything you've ever said or done and if they found 2 or 3 questionable things there would be a mob looking for your blood how many of us would actually have a job? It saddens me that somebody has to deal with this on such a huge scale. It's okay for popular people but it's not okay for Orb to try and get past what happened? Lets go through all the streamers and check for nbombs, racial remarks, sexist jokes and anti-gay slurs get rid of them all, get their blood! It doesn't matter if Artosis said something at a tournament in 2006 he should be fired from GOM for it! It's stupid and childish and does nothing but hurt the community, game and Esports to go for blood like this. In the thousands of games he played, in the hundreds of hours of streaming we found three incidents. I hope people hold themselves accountable to that high of a standard. If you dared to say the N-word at work in front of your company's clients, you'll be fired. If you think otherwise, give it a shot. Orb wasn't 'at work', so that's a pretty poor analogy. I don't think this is specific to the SC2 community: it seems all gaming communities love petty bullshit and drama. SC2 is becoming more 'mainstream' in that the same population is part of its community as the others, and so we end up in the same old place - except with more self-righteousness because ESPORTS.
People get fired over things they do in their personal lives all the time. It's because they are representing a larger company or entity, so others will view their actions and see it as being the actions of the company. Infact I remember reading a blog a week or two ago about a guy who felt so betrayed because a guy from work, over a long period of time finally managed to get some 'dirt' on him or got him to say something within his personal realm that was unfortunately passed along, resulting in him being fired.
When somebody is in the public eye, they can easily get screwed over by actions or words that happened within their private life. Watergate, Mel Gibson and his offensive rants, etc etc... People don't necessarily separate the personal from the public.
EDIT: And one thing: if the person whom the accusations surround decide to deny until there is irrefutable proof, they are only hurting themselves and are causing the end result to become that much worse.
And I would also like to add I have absolutely nothing against orb. I will continue to watch his casting (if its ever around anymore), and I don't see why I would think anything less than him.
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On March 10 2012 08:57 xXFireandIceXx wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 08:48 Gecko wrote:
I don't personally like orbs behavior or his casting but I think what the community has done is just sickening. mob justice left EG no choice but to drop orb before he even had a shot to prove himself as a professional caster. I would comment on idra but angry mobs don't harass EG's sponsors over Idra.
I feel that a lot of this outrage was manufactured, the original posts on reddit bringing up orbs behavior were clearly made with malicious intent towards orb and the incident had happened months before. It's no coincidence that the OP posted that right after orb was hired onto EG as a full time caster. Its shameful for people to get all bent up and allow themselves to be manipulated like this. It seems to only take a few angry people to start a reddit mob and It saddens me that /r/starcrafts rules against public shaming and witchunting never feel enforced in any meaningful way.
This communities love of public shaming volunteers and burning sponsors is too much sometimes. People organize awesome tournaments and all we give are complaints. We only seem to contact sponsors out of anger, what happened to thanking pepsi for GSL? We need more stuff like that. The community needs to stop being so vile towards sponsors and volunteers if it wants to see long term success. He used such a denigrating term that it truly was terrible. Where's the respect and decency?
Here's the thing. People pretended to be Orb on ladder and said that shit. Orb denied it, and people, going on an absolute witch hunt mode and started scanning thousands of vods trying to find any example of him saying something vulgar, and found examples from 1-2 years ago, before he was even considering talking to EG. Yes, the word is reprehensible and should basically never be used. But people in this community are fucking piranha's when it comes to drama.
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On March 10 2012 10:14 Naeroon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 10:05 Dfgj wrote:On March 10 2012 09:32 xXFireandIceXx wrote:On March 10 2012 09:22 Filter wrote:On March 10 2012 09:07 Jayjay54 wrote:On March 10 2012 08:43 Enervate wrote:
Firstly, it's debatable whether Orb was an excellent commentator.
Secondly, the Starcraft community should be praised for its actions in this matter. I fail to see how the community did anything wrong. The only person at fault is Orb.
Thirdly, here's a scenario. Imagine that a country just impeached its president. Why don't we give him a second chance immediately and elect him into office again? Because we don't think he should be in that office. That's why we impeached him in the first place. yup. if we want esports to grow and became viable, such actions must have consequences. Any soccer coach making a similiar comment would be fired and never hired again as well. You can't give that stuff a free pass. The best example is Team Liquid. It's probably one of the best eSports related site on the planet. Why? Because of harsh ban policy. No second chances. This is how it works and I am glad that it works this way. People don't get banned on TL for posts from 3 months ago after they achieve success in the community. I challenge you to name one positive thing that has come from the Orb incident. People have been ripping on people over and over for things they do and it's doing a lot more damage than good. This whole incident has nothing but make the community look like a mindless mob out for blood, damage the EG name and hurt the sponsors image and brands. EG was forced into releasing Orb by the mob mentality, and yeah what he said was bad. Yes trying to hide it was bad but still is he really going to come out and say after the first incident that it may have happened in a couple of ladder matches before? The fact that people ran through hours of video looking for proof and checked all their replays is insane. If your workplace could look through everything you've ever said or done and if they found 2 or 3 questionable things there would be a mob looking for your blood how many of us would actually have a job? It saddens me that somebody has to deal with this on such a huge scale. It's okay for popular people but it's not okay for Orb to try and get past what happened? Lets go through all the streamers and check for nbombs, racial remarks, sexist jokes and anti-gay slurs get rid of them all, get their blood! It doesn't matter if Artosis said something at a tournament in 2006 he should be fired from GOM for it! It's stupid and childish and does nothing but hurt the community, game and Esports to go for blood like this. In the thousands of games he played, in the hundreds of hours of streaming we found three incidents. I hope people hold themselves accountable to that high of a standard. If you dared to say the N-word at work in front of your company's clients, you'll be fired. If you think otherwise, give it a shot. Orb wasn't 'at work', so that's a pretty poor analogy. I don't think this is specific to the SC2 community: it seems all gaming communities love petty bullshit and drama. SC2 is becoming more 'mainstream' in that the same population is part of its community as the others, and so we end up in the same old place - except with more self-righteousness because ESPORTS. People get fired over things they do in their personal lives all the time.
Yes, I know. That doesn't make his analogy correct, though, which is what I was disputing.
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On March 10 2012 08:57 xXFireandIceXx wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 08:48 Gecko wrote:
I don't personally like orbs behavior or his casting but I think what the community has done is just sickening. mob justice left EG no choice but to drop orb before he even had a shot to prove himself as a professional caster. I would comment on idra but angry mobs don't harass EG's sponsors over Idra.
I feel that a lot of this outrage was manufactured, the original posts on reddit bringing up orbs behavior were clearly made with malicious intent towards orb and the incident had happened months before. It's no coincidence that the OP posted that right after orb was hired onto EG as a full time caster. Its shameful for people to get all bent up and allow themselves to be manipulated like this. It seems to only take a few angry people to start a reddit mob and It saddens me that /r/starcrafts rules against public shaming and witchunting never feel enforced in any meaningful way.
This communities love of public shaming volunteers and burning sponsors is too much sometimes. People organize awesome tournaments and all we give are complaints. We only seem to contact sponsors out of anger, what happened to thanking pepsi for GSL? We need more stuff like that. The community needs to stop being so vile towards sponsors and volunteers if it wants to see long term success. He used such a denigrating term that it truly was terrible. Where's the respect and decency? Also, orb clearly knew he had done what he did (as suggested by the posters on reddit) but chose to purposely hide this, continue to deny it, and even insulted Totalbiscuit for believing that orb actually did use such an offensive term (which orb in the end did). Respect. Integrity. Accountability. I don't know, they teach this stuff in elementary.
I'm not defending orbs actions, I'm merely stating that mob mentality can be just as reprehensible. I don't understand how people can be proud to say that they were part of a mob that intentionally ruined a mans life. A mob ignores due process and I frankly think mob mentality is straight up barbaric at its worst. People need to think rationally about situations and not jump to action on the drop of a hat, especially on things this serious. An angry mob has nothing to do with integrity or accountability.
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On March 10 2012 11:06 Gecko wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 08:57 xXFireandIceXx wrote:On March 10 2012 08:48 Gecko wrote:
I don't personally like orbs behavior or his casting but I think what the community has done is just sickening. mob justice left EG no choice but to drop orb before he even had a shot to prove himself as a professional caster. I would comment on idra but angry mobs don't harass EG's sponsors over Idra.
I feel that a lot of this outrage was manufactured, the original posts on reddit bringing up orbs behavior were clearly made with malicious intent towards orb and the incident had happened months before. It's no coincidence that the OP posted that right after orb was hired onto EG as a full time caster. Its shameful for people to get all bent up and allow themselves to be manipulated like this. It seems to only take a few angry people to start a reddit mob and It saddens me that /r/starcrafts rules against public shaming and witchunting never feel enforced in any meaningful way.
This communities love of public shaming volunteers and burning sponsors is too much sometimes. People organize awesome tournaments and all we give are complaints. We only seem to contact sponsors out of anger, what happened to thanking pepsi for GSL? We need more stuff like that. The community needs to stop being so vile towards sponsors and volunteers if it wants to see long term success. He used such a denigrating term that it truly was terrible. Where's the respect and decency? Also, orb clearly knew he had done what he did (as suggested by the posters on reddit) but chose to purposely hide this, continue to deny it, and even insulted Totalbiscuit for believing that orb actually did use such an offensive term (which orb in the end did). Respect. Integrity. Accountability. I don't know, they teach this stuff in elementary. I'm not defending orbs actions, I'm merely stating that mob mentality can be just as reprehensible. I don't understand how people can be proud to say that they were part of a mob that intentionally ruined a mans life. A mob ignores due process and I frankly think mob mentality is straight up barbaric at its worst. People need to think rationally about situations and not jump to action on the drop of a hat, especially on things this serious. An angry mob has nothing to do with integrity or accountability.
Mob mentality manifested this time around because Orb's behavior was at such a level of reprehensibility. I don't think it would have gotten to this point if Orb had simply been BM, but his overall idiocy in both throwing around racial and homophobic slurs and in responding to his being called out on it were both completely stupid and worthy of the treatment he got.
The mob mentality can be dangerous and bad, but in this specific scenario, the community coming together and rising up against Orb's behavior was a good thing.
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On March 10 2012 11:45 PH wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 11:06 Gecko wrote:On March 10 2012 08:57 xXFireandIceXx wrote:On March 10 2012 08:48 Gecko wrote:
I don't personally like orbs behavior or his casting but I think what the community has done is just sickening. mob justice left EG no choice but to drop orb before he even had a shot to prove himself as a professional caster. I would comment on idra but angry mobs don't harass EG's sponsors over Idra.
I feel that a lot of this outrage was manufactured, the original posts on reddit bringing up orbs behavior were clearly made with malicious intent towards orb and the incident had happened months before. It's no coincidence that the OP posted that right after orb was hired onto EG as a full time caster. Its shameful for people to get all bent up and allow themselves to be manipulated like this. It seems to only take a few angry people to start a reddit mob and It saddens me that /r/starcrafts rules against public shaming and witchunting never feel enforced in any meaningful way.
This communities love of public shaming volunteers and burning sponsors is too much sometimes. People organize awesome tournaments and all we give are complaints. We only seem to contact sponsors out of anger, what happened to thanking pepsi for GSL? We need more stuff like that. The community needs to stop being so vile towards sponsors and volunteers if it wants to see long term success. He used such a denigrating term that it truly was terrible. Where's the respect and decency? Also, orb clearly knew he had done what he did (as suggested by the posters on reddit) but chose to purposely hide this, continue to deny it, and even insulted Totalbiscuit for believing that orb actually did use such an offensive term (which orb in the end did). Respect. Integrity. Accountability. I don't know, they teach this stuff in elementary. I'm not defending orbs actions, I'm merely stating that mob mentality can be just as reprehensible. I don't understand how people can be proud to say that they were part of a mob that intentionally ruined a mans life. A mob ignores due process and I frankly think mob mentality is straight up barbaric at its worst. People need to think rationally about situations and not jump to action on the drop of a hat, especially on things this serious. An angry mob has nothing to do with integrity or accountability. Mob mentality manifested this time around because Orb's behavior was at such a level of reprehensibility. I don't think it would have gotten to this point if Orb had simply been BM, but his overall idiocy in both throwing around racial and homophobic slurs and in responding to his being called out on it were both completely stupid and worthy of the treatment he got. The mob mentality can be dangerous and bad, but in this specific scenario, the community coming together and rising up against Orb's behavior was a good thing.
This is the problem.
Someone PRETENDED to be Orb and said shit on ladder, when he denied it they scanned through every single vod he had and thousands of videos to find a situation where he said a bad word 1-2 years ago. The point of what is being said here isn't that what Orb did shouldn't be considered reprehensible.
What is being said here is that no one in this community is doing it for the betterment of the community and its image, they are doing it because they love drama and have a bloodlust for causing it.
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People who pretend EG was 'forced' to fire orb in any sense or pressured into it by mob outcry obviously did not read or did not understand alex garfield's post on the matter. People found proof he did a bad thing, what about this is objectionable? Mob mentality and the presence of contemptible persons such as instigators and drama connoisseurs can be useful to the functioning of any large group of people. There are times when they take inappropriate action and need to be curbed but I see no reason to think this is one of them.
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On March 10 2012 13:52 UniversalSnip wrote:
People who pretend EG was 'forced' to fire orb in any sense or pressured into it by mob outcry obviously did not read or did not understand alex garfield's post on the matter. People found proof he did a bad thing, what about this is objectionable? Mob mentality and the presence of contemptible persons such as instigators and drama connoisseurs can be useful to the functioning of any large group of people. There are times when they take inappropriate action and need to be curbed but I see no reason to think this is one of them.
Because people were hungry for blood and wanted drama so they combed through every video he ever did, found vods from 1-2 years ago (before he even was thinking about casting) where he said it and got him fired over it. Not because they wanted justice, but because they wanted to see someone they didn't like fired and they love drama. If they wanted justice they would have gone to EG, not email these pictures to the sponsors so that EG would be forced to fire him without any due process.
How you don't see the issue here is beyond me. We're not saying what he said should not have been punished. What we are saying is that the means it was done, and the motives behind it only show the way this community has changed.
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I've personally talked to Orb, this isn't the end for him.
It's a setback sure, but if he quit now he'd just be giving these people what they wanted.
He's still going to be casting and I respect him all the more for it.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50527 Posts
On March 10 2012 09:07 Jayjay54 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 08:43 Enervate wrote:
Firstly, it's debatable whether Orb was an excellent commentator.
Secondly, the Starcraft community should be praised for its actions in this matter. I fail to see how the community did anything wrong. The only person at fault is Orb.
Thirdly, here's a scenario. Imagine that a country just impeached its president. Why don't we give him a second chance immediately and elect him into office again? Because we don't think he should be in that office. That's why we impeached him in the first place. yup. if we want esports to grow and became viable, such actions must have consequences. Any soccer coach making a similiar comment would be fired and never hired again as well. You can't give that stuff a free pass. The best example is Team Liquid. It's probably one of the best eSports related site on the planet. Why? Because of harsh ban policy. No second chances. This is how it works and I am glad that it works this way.
I'm a PBU and I've been here a while, so yeah you do get second chances.
and in due time if Orb is still passionate towards casting he will too, its a learning experience.
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The SC2 community has shifted to an Esports community damning other Esports.
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On March 10 2012 13:52 UniversalSnip wrote:
People who pretend EG was 'forced' to fire orb in any sense or pressured into it by mob outcry obviously did not read or did not understand alex garfield's post on the matter.
Saying something like this makes me think you didn't read all of Alex's post and stopped at the fact that he's a black studies major. Here, I'll even quote the important part for you:
*For those of you who complained to our sponsors: if you're satisfied with what I've written here, please re-contact them to let them know you're happy with us - really, please do it. For those of you who didn't initially complain, but are satisfied with this post nonetheless, I'd also ask that you contact our sponsors to let them know you support us. I would also ask that, in the future, if you're unhappy with something that happens in eSports, you guys give the offending party a chance to respond and/or act before seeking vigilante justice via contacting said party's sponsors. In this case, I promptly informed everyone that we'd be issuing a statement and were taking the matter seriously, but some of you still decided to contact out sponsors before hearing me out. I don't think that's fair. Please try to be more patient in the future. It's hard enough to bring sponsors into eSports as it is - we as an industry don't need angry, pitchfork-wielding mobs making that task any more difficult 
EG's hand was forced because morons on Reddit went over EG's head and straight to the sponsors, which should not have been involved unless EG was unable to resolve the situation themselves.
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Funny how OP joined in Nov 2010.
You dont know what the SC community was like back then. Your just romaticising it. If you look back through the old posts, theres still (Well, more) shitposting, people calling out others over stupid shit. We just didn't have a stupid amount of people that will never be part of the bigger community, and so have to rely on being part of the large crowd to get their opinion heard.
I do agree that Orb should not be removed from Esports entirely. Also I apologise for taking such an agressive stance, but you sounded quite pretenous in your first few paragraphs.
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He lied to his boss, where as Destiny is completely transparent with what he's saying, he doesn't attempt to 'frame' other people. Everyone knows that how he talks. Orb tried to put the blame on someone else and also liedto his boss, therefore he deserved to be fired.
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On March 10 2012 08:48 Gecko wrote:
I don't personally like orbs behavior or his casting but I think what the community has done is just sickening. mob justice left EG no choice but to drop orb before he even had a shot to prove himself as a professional caster.
That's not true. He lied to EG about it, and I personally think if he'd come out and said "yeah, I said those things, it's not acceptable and I am sorry" then the outcome would not have been the same.
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On March 11 2012 11:05 Host- wrote:
He lied to his boss, where as Destiny is completely transparent with what he's saying, he doesn't attempt to 'frame' other people. Everyone knows that how he talks. Orb tried to put the blame on someone else and also liedto his boss, therefore he deserved to be fired.
Where did Orb lie? The original pictures posted WERE fake and were not actually him, and Orb rightfully denied it so people went on a witch hunt through his old vods and found a few pictures from 1-2 years ago. There was no lying involved. Again, the issue here is NOT that Orb should not have been punished.
The issue is that no one here cares about justice or bettering the community. People did this solely for the drama, because that's all this community cares about anymore. Is the drama. If they wanted justice they would have gone to EG first and not over their heads to the sponsors and forced unnecessary hand. If they wanted justice and the improvement of Esports they would not have turned this into a witch hunt. This has nothing to do with Orb deserving or not deserving to be punished for what he did. This has to do with the community caring more about drama, and going to any lengths to make sure that they get it more than the progression of the game and esports.
I support Orb in his future endeavors just so these kids in this pseudo-bloodlust won't get what they want in him losing his career in what he loves forever. But it doesn't matter, because 3 months from now (at maximum) something else will come up and everyone will swarm on X person simply for the drama and controversy. Just look at the whole Naniwa thing, and now this.
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On March 11 2012 00:17 bonifaceviii wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 13:52 UniversalSnip wrote:
People who pretend EG was 'forced' to fire orb in any sense or pressured into it by mob outcry obviously did not read or did not understand alex garfield's post on the matter. Saying something like this makes me think you didn't read all of Alex's post and stopped at the fact that he's a black studies major. Here, I'll even quote the important part for you: Show nested quote +*For those of you who complained to our sponsors: if you're satisfied with what I've written here, please re-contact them to let them know you're happy with us - really, please do it. For those of you who didn't initially complain, but are satisfied with this post nonetheless, I'd also ask that you contact our sponsors to let them know you support us. I would also ask that, in the future, if you're unhappy with something that happens in eSports, you guys give the offending party a chance to respond and/or act before seeking vigilante justice via contacting said party's sponsors. In this case, I promptly informed everyone that we'd be issuing a statement and were taking the matter seriously, but some of you still decided to contact out sponsors before hearing me out. I don't think that's fair. Please try to be more patient in the future. It's hard enough to bring sponsors into eSports as it is - we as an industry don't need angry, pitchfork-wielding mobs making that task any more difficult EG's hand was forced because morons on Reddit went over EG's head and straight to the sponsors, which should not have been involved unless EG was unable to resolve the situation themselves.
Unless his post was just bullshit, Garfield would have fired Orb anyway. That's clear enough.
NOWHERE does he say he was forced to fire Orb in any sense. You are extrapolating because that is what you want to think.
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On March 11 2012 13:01 UniversalSnip wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 00:17 bonifaceviii wrote:On March 10 2012 13:52 UniversalSnip wrote:
People who pretend EG was 'forced' to fire orb in any sense or pressured into it by mob outcry obviously did not read or did not understand alex garfield's post on the matter. Saying something like this makes me think you didn't read all of Alex's post and stopped at the fact that he's a black studies major. Here, I'll even quote the important part for you: *For those of you who complained to our sponsors: if you're satisfied with what I've written here, please re-contact them to let them know you're happy with us - really, please do it. For those of you who didn't initially complain, but are satisfied with this post nonetheless, I'd also ask that you contact our sponsors to let them know you support us. I would also ask that, in the future, if you're unhappy with something that happens in eSports, you guys give the offending party a chance to respond and/or act before seeking vigilante justice via contacting said party's sponsors. In this case, I promptly informed everyone that we'd be issuing a statement and were taking the matter seriously, but some of you still decided to contact out sponsors before hearing me out. I don't think that's fair. Please try to be more patient in the future. It's hard enough to bring sponsors into eSports as it is - we as an industry don't need angry, pitchfork-wielding mobs making that task any more difficult EG's hand was forced because morons on Reddit went over EG's head and straight to the sponsors, which should not have been involved unless EG was unable to resolve the situation themselves. Unless his post was just bullshit, Garfield would have fired Orb anyway. That's clear enough. NOWHERE does he say he was forced to fire Orb in any sense. You are extrapolating because that is what you want to think.
It's funny how you extrapolate something not without actual knowledge, but because it's what you want to think and then accuse someone of the very same thing in the same breath. Orb was fired because people sent pictures of him saying "Nigger" to the sponsors and EG was forced to act because of the overwhelming amount of emails and shit being sent to said sponsors saying for Orb to be fired and whatnot because of the pics.
I wish Orb the best though. It's a shame we live in a society where people are more concerned about punishing people than rehabilitating and fixing the issue. Because we, as a community and society, would rather watch someone burn and enjoy the drama than actually try to make things right.
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On March 11 2012 13:05 Candadar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 13:01 UniversalSnip wrote:On March 11 2012 00:17 bonifaceviii wrote:On March 10 2012 13:52 UniversalSnip wrote:
People who pretend EG was 'forced' to fire orb in any sense or pressured into it by mob outcry obviously did not read or did not understand alex garfield's post on the matter. Saying something like this makes me think you didn't read all of Alex's post and stopped at the fact that he's a black studies major. Here, I'll even quote the important part for you: *For those of you who complained to our sponsors: if you're satisfied with what I've written here, please re-contact them to let them know you're happy with us - really, please do it. For those of you who didn't initially complain, but are satisfied with this post nonetheless, I'd also ask that you contact our sponsors to let them know you support us. I would also ask that, in the future, if you're unhappy with something that happens in eSports, you guys give the offending party a chance to respond and/or act before seeking vigilante justice via contacting said party's sponsors. In this case, I promptly informed everyone that we'd be issuing a statement and were taking the matter seriously, but some of you still decided to contact out sponsors before hearing me out. I don't think that's fair. Please try to be more patient in the future. It's hard enough to bring sponsors into eSports as it is - we as an industry don't need angry, pitchfork-wielding mobs making that task any more difficult EG's hand was forced because morons on Reddit went over EG's head and straight to the sponsors, which should not have been involved unless EG was unable to resolve the situation themselves. Unless his post was just bullshit, Garfield would have fired Orb anyway. That's clear enough. NOWHERE does he say he was forced to fire Orb in any sense. You are extrapolating because that is what you want to think. It's funny how you extrapolate something not without actual knowledge, but because it's what you want to think and then accuse someone of the very same thing in the same breath. Orb was fired because people sent pictures of him saying "Nigger" to the sponsors and EG was forced to act because of the overwhelming amount of emails and shit being sent to said sponsors saying for Orb to be fired and whatnot because of the pics.
Where did Garfield say he would not have fired orb if people hadn't done that? Go ahead, quote him.
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On March 11 2012 13:06 UniversalSnip wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 13:05 Candadar wrote:On March 11 2012 13:01 UniversalSnip wrote:On March 11 2012 00:17 bonifaceviii wrote:On March 10 2012 13:52 UniversalSnip wrote:
People who pretend EG was 'forced' to fire orb in any sense or pressured into it by mob outcry obviously did not read or did not understand alex garfield's post on the matter. Saying something like this makes me think you didn't read all of Alex's post and stopped at the fact that he's a black studies major. Here, I'll even quote the important part for you: *For those of you who complained to our sponsors: if you're satisfied with what I've written here, please re-contact them to let them know you're happy with us - really, please do it. For those of you who didn't initially complain, but are satisfied with this post nonetheless, I'd also ask that you contact our sponsors to let them know you support us. I would also ask that, in the future, if you're unhappy with something that happens in eSports, you guys give the offending party a chance to respond and/or act before seeking vigilante justice via contacting said party's sponsors. In this case, I promptly informed everyone that we'd be issuing a statement and were taking the matter seriously, but some of you still decided to contact out sponsors before hearing me out. I don't think that's fair. Please try to be more patient in the future. It's hard enough to bring sponsors into eSports as it is - we as an industry don't need angry, pitchfork-wielding mobs making that task any more difficult EG's hand was forced because morons on Reddit went over EG's head and straight to the sponsors, which should not have been involved unless EG was unable to resolve the situation themselves. Unless his post was just bullshit, Garfield would have fired Orb anyway. That's clear enough. NOWHERE does he say he was forced to fire Orb in any sense. You are extrapolating because that is what you want to think. It's funny how you extrapolate something not without actual knowledge, but because it's what you want to think and then accuse someone of the very same thing in the same breath. Orb was fired because people sent pictures of him saying "Nigger" to the sponsors and EG was forced to act because of the overwhelming amount of emails and shit being sent to said sponsors saying for Orb to be fired and whatnot because of the pics. Where did Garfield say he would not have fired orb if people hadn't done that? Go ahead, quote him.
You don't make a claim, and say it's on the other person to prove you wrong.
The burden of proof is on you. You said Garfield would have fired him anyways. You simply do not know that, none of us know that. All we do know is that thousands of people emailed EG's sponsors with a picture of Orb saying nigger (probably completely out of context of the fact that they were from 1-2 years ago) and demanding he be fired/punishment be given and EG was, for all intents and purposes, forced to fire Orb to satisfy their sponsors.
Why the fuck am I even responding to this, I'm only encouraging this further. All you people want is fucking drama. You don't care about what's right, you don't care about fixing the issue, you don't care about rehabilitating the problem or Orb. All you fucking care about is having the next "big story" to make 500 blog posts and general threads on Teamliquid about. What is going on now is exactly what people like you strive for. Drama. You know what? I won't give you the pleasure of it.
If you, or others, feel that what happened, this mob mentality, bloodlust, witch hunt was necessary and, as others have said, "brings out the good" in this community -- I truly feel sorry for you and hope you never even consider taking a career in the criminal justice system in this country or even hold a true position of power. I agree Orb should have been punished, perhaps a suspension or something for what he did.
However, it should have gone through the correct channels. It should not have gone down the way it did, and the way it did happen only proves the mentality of the current community. If, at the end, Orb was fired through the proper channels I would have absolutely no issue with it and would be perfectly okay with the decision. But the fact that it went down in the manner it did absolutely disgusts me. It disgusts me even more that people think it's okay.
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On March 11 2012 13:13 Candadar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 13:06 UniversalSnip wrote:On March 11 2012 13:05 Candadar wrote:On March 11 2012 13:01 UniversalSnip wrote:On March 11 2012 00:17 bonifaceviii wrote:On March 10 2012 13:52 UniversalSnip wrote:
People who pretend EG was 'forced' to fire orb in any sense or pressured into it by mob outcry obviously did not read or did not understand alex garfield's post on the matter. Saying something like this makes me think you didn't read all of Alex's post and stopped at the fact that he's a black studies major. Here, I'll even quote the important part for you: *For those of you who complained to our sponsors: if you're satisfied with what I've written here, please re-contact them to let them know you're happy with us - really, please do it. For those of you who didn't initially complain, but are satisfied with this post nonetheless, I'd also ask that you contact our sponsors to let them know you support us. I would also ask that, in the future, if you're unhappy with something that happens in eSports, you guys give the offending party a chance to respond and/or act before seeking vigilante justice via contacting said party's sponsors. In this case, I promptly informed everyone that we'd be issuing a statement and were taking the matter seriously, but some of you still decided to contact out sponsors before hearing me out. I don't think that's fair. Please try to be more patient in the future. It's hard enough to bring sponsors into eSports as it is - we as an industry don't need angry, pitchfork-wielding mobs making that task any more difficult EG's hand was forced because morons on Reddit went over EG's head and straight to the sponsors, which should not have been involved unless EG was unable to resolve the situation themselves. Unless his post was just bullshit, Garfield would have fired Orb anyway. That's clear enough. NOWHERE does he say he was forced to fire Orb in any sense. You are extrapolating because that is what you want to think. It's funny how you extrapolate something not without actual knowledge, but because it's what you want to think and then accuse someone of the very same thing in the same breath. Orb was fired because people sent pictures of him saying "Nigger" to the sponsors and EG was forced to act because of the overwhelming amount of emails and shit being sent to said sponsors saying for Orb to be fired and whatnot because of the pics. Where did Garfield say he would not have fired orb if people hadn't done that? Go ahead, quote him. You don't make a claim, and say it's on the other person to prove you wrong. The burden of proof is on you. You said Garfield would have fired him anyways. You simply do not know that, none of us know that.
The fact that he says he's proud this occurred, that this is a matter of his personal political views, the general tone of the post, these things run completely contrary to what you are saying.
Why the fuck am I even responding to this, I'm only encouraging this further. All you people want is fucking drama. You don't care about what's right, you don't care about fixing the issue, you don't care about rehabilitating the problem or Orb. All you fucking care about is having the next "big story" to make 500 blog posts and general threads on Teamliquid about. What is going on now is exactly what people like you strive for. Drama. You know what? I won't give you the pleasure of it.
What the hell? I'm offended (EDIT: not actually offended. more amused.) by your characterization of me, which, not to my surprise, seems to be based on assumptions you have made that support the position you wish to have. The first thing I heard of this was Garfield's post, I read that, a thorough recap and orb's apology, and that is my total involvement with the matter and the complete extent of my 'bloodlust'. I haven't howled for anyone's nuts to be cut off or commented on the matter before this.
If you, or others, feel that what happened, this mob mentality, bloodlust, witch hunt was necessary and, as others have said, "brings out the good" in this community -- I truly feel sorry for you and hope you never even consider taking a career in the criminal justice system in this country or even hold a true position of power.
lol
However, it should have gone through the correct channels. It should not have gone down the way it did, and the way it did happen only proves the mentality of the current community. If, at the end, Orb was fired through the proper channels I would have absolutely no issue with it and would be perfectly okay with the decision. But the fact that it went down in the manner it did absolutely disgusts me. It disgusts me even more that people think it's okay.
The problem here is that you are attaching a few different unrelated ideas to each other. You think that because it's bullshit for people to email pictures of an offensive word to EG's sponsors, this necessarily means that orb would not have been punished or would have been punished lightly otherwise, and that orb should not have been punished or should have been punished lightly. These are three separate things. Why don't you just take your reasonable argument and run with it instead of getting inflamed and being rude to people over the internet when they're skeptical of your poorly constructed ones?
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I wonder who were the sad fucks that looked through hundreds of replays and vods just to find that one moment,
its just sad to know that there are people in this community who only seek for the downfall of others. thinking that by doing that they are more of a person than orb because they were not the ones to say nigger yet they dont realize that crushed a mans dream. agree with everything you said.
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Of course Starcraft community has changed.
That's what you get with "mainstream" and being a "successful esport".
As long as SC2 is this popular in the west, we're going to keep seeing all kinds of fake bullshit going on from all sides on weekly basis. Better get used to it, I certainly have.
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EPT
